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Post by colfoley on Mar 16, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
Its kind of the same thing though. Shotgun is a passive skill which rightfully belongs in the Combat skill set. The 'soldier' profile should rightfully increase things to do with your weapons like damage since its kind of its bread and butter and the whole point of the combat skill tree. Now again I cannot say for one hundred percent certainty, again I do not have my hands on the game...but it would be really odd if the 'Vanguard Profile' didn't include passives which boosted your shotgun damage. Like the Soldier one includes bonuses for upgrading all your weapons. In short though if you want to be a character who uses three biotic powers that makes you an adept, you can still use a shotgun with it if you want and I imagine you will be very effective in doing so, but adept as a profile seems more geared to increasing the damage/ duration of your biotic powers. Ok, one more time I am not talking about profiles, why are you talking about profile? There is a Combat skill tree with 3 evolutions that increases the effectiveness of shotguns, that was what I was talking about. Also just so you know: Vanguard profile: Melee damage, melee force, biotic recharge speed, power shield cost, max shields, melee attacks restore shields. That;s the profile. If you want damage from your Nova and Charge you go Adept profile. So that's what you are talking about? That's it? I mean I have been saying this the entire time. I thought you were talking about a different skill or something else entirely but my argument still works. If you want to unlock the 'vanguard' profile and be a vanguard you are going to have to spend some points in the combat tree, if you want passives that increase the damange of shotguns you are going to have to invest in the combat skill tree. If you do not want either of those things and instead want to become the ultimate biotic warrior with charge +nova+ another biotic power you will be an adept. This is how the levelling system in this game works. And pretty much it works this way in most RPGs. Just that some RPGs limit you by classes so you only have access to certain things. Andromeda doesen't so you can respec, and mix and match your powers to your hearts content but if you want to play in a certain style. IE a shotgun wielding bad ass who uses Charge and nova, you will have to invest skills in the proper skill trees to do so. Though since we are on the subject I wonder how much crafting and different armor sets might also help with this. Ah, but thanks for the info.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kaind on Mar 16, 2017 22:14:22 GMT
I am NOT talking about profiles at all, I am talking about passive skills that you invest points into. This sucks. Thanks for sharing this insight. This means I'll be optimizing a single build until very high levels, when points are so abundant that I can afford to widen out in my specs. The advertised versatility isn't all it was cracked up to be. What you want to do if you are going for min-man is: Get 3 active skills to their final evolution => Max out the passives that help your skills => Start investing points into random skills of the same category to boost the passives, and you want to invest all first points, then all second points then all third points etc. because you want as much bonus as possible as fast as possible, so you don't go for costly evolutiuons since they will still give the passives the same amount as the first points.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 605 Likes: 511
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Post by kaind on Mar 16, 2017 22:20:07 GMT
So that's what you are talking about? That's it? I mean I have been saying this the entire time. I thought you were talking about a different skill or something else entirely but my argument still works. If you want to unlock the 'vanguard' profile and be a vanguard you are going to have to spend some points in the combat tree, if you want passives that increase the damange of shotguns you are going to have to invest in the combat skill tree. If you do not want either of those things and instead want to become the ultimate biotic warrior with charge +nova+ another biotic power you will be an adept. This is how the levelling system in this game works. And pretty much it works this way in most RPGs. Just that some RPGs limit you by classes so you only have access to certain things. Andromeda doesen't so you can respec, and mix and match your powers to your hearts content but if you want to play in a certain style. IE a shotgun wielding bad ass who uses Charge and nova, you will have to invest skills in the proper skill trees to do so. Though since we are on the subject I wonder how much crafting and different armor sets might also help with this. Ah, but thanks for the info. Bruh.. this is painful. See the bold part? I. am. not. talking. about. profiles. ok? Andromeda advertised that you could mix and match powers and be effective, but it's not the case. I wanted to invest 21 skill points into shotgun tree in the combat tree, but it turned out that if I do just that I will not get a meaningful damage boost to shotgun damage because I need to invest in other random combat skills for it to do that. I also wanted to invest 21 points into fitness in the combat tree but it's the same story as with the shotgun you need to level other powers for it to be effective.
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Post by jastall on Mar 16, 2017 22:20:46 GMT
So you have say a passive tree of offensive biotics. This passive tree gives bonuses of damage, recharge speed to biotics, but it gives a bonus of 1% for each point you have invested in biotics, so you can't for example go mainly soldier grab 1 biotic power and boost that power damage with a passive. Every single passive tree works like that. I think I understand now. So the passive trees are designed to improve your skills based on the number of points you have spent in that particular tree. And essentially, if you don't have enough points to spend on that particular set of powers, you can't be powerful enough to make that useful. You would have to stick to a single tree for the powers to actually become worth it. Yeah, that sucks. Big time. I think that depends on what other powers you use. If you put points in (say) Tech for more damage and duration, some Biotic powers that don't rely on pure damage output such as Charge, Backlash and Throw might still be very useful. Or Combat skills such as Barricade. I don't min-max up the whazoo, so what do I know, but it doesn't seem like such a bad system.
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Post by Element Zero on Mar 16, 2017 22:35:16 GMT
I think I understand now. So the passive trees are designed to improve your skills based on the number of points you have spent in that particular tree. And essentially, if you don't have enough points to spend on that particular set of powers, you can't be powerful enough to make that useful. You would have to stick to a single tree for the powers to actually become worth it. Yeah, that sucks. Big time. I think that depends on what other powers you use. If you put points in (say) Tech for more damage and duration, some Biotic powers that don't rely on pure damage output such as Charge, Backlash and Throw might still be very useful. Or Combat skills such as Barricade. I don't min-max up the whazoo, so what do I know, but it doesn't seem like such a bad system. The problem is that some of us do optimize to some degree, since we exclusively play on Insanity difficulty. (At least initially, this will be challenging.) If the game is set up to mandate optimization, it is a bad system. If it's set up in a way that an optimized build curb stomps the enemies, it's also a bad system. I'll have to see how MEA plays before forming a strong opinion, but I am initially very disappointed to learn of this unimaginative setup for passives. I, too, intended to dip into Combat Fitness (or whatever it's called) as well as some weapons training for a biotic character, for instance. Now, I know that I'll never really be all that "fit"; nor will my weapons pack the punch I'd hoped. It's not going to wreck my day, but it's a letdown. I'll likely just build a less diversified, more boring character, now. I'll have/use fewer profiles until I'm in the God-tier levels at which I am swimming in skill points. It's possible that levels and skill points will come fast and frequently, I guess, and we will be able to quickly build that cookie-cutter base character. Then, we can begin adding on more diverse pieces. Still, this isn't the system as advertised. It's a letdown, as I said. It won't ruin my experience, but it definitely sounds like it will play a lot more like the OT than I'd hoped, in terms of builds.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 16, 2017 22:42:13 GMT
So that's what you are talking about? That's it? I mean I have been saying this the entire time. I thought you were talking about a different skill or something else entirely but my argument still works. If you want to unlock the 'vanguard' profile and be a vanguard you are going to have to spend some points in the combat tree, if you want passives that increase the damange of shotguns you are going to have to invest in the combat skill tree. If you do not want either of those things and instead want to become the ultimate biotic warrior with charge +nova+ another biotic power you will be an adept. This is how the levelling system in this game works. And pretty much it works this way in most RPGs. Just that some RPGs limit you by classes so you only have access to certain things. Andromeda doesen't so you can respec, and mix and match your powers to your hearts content but if you want to play in a certain style. IE a shotgun wielding bad ass who uses Charge and nova, you will have to invest skills in the proper skill trees to do so. Though since we are on the subject I wonder how much crafting and different armor sets might also help with this. Ah, but thanks for the info. Bruh.. this is painful. See the bold part? I. am. not. talking. about. profiles. ok? Andromeda advertised that you could mix and match powers and be effective, but it's not the case. I wanted to invest 21 skill points into shotgun tree in the combat tree, but it turned out that if I do just that I will not get a meaningful damage boost to shotgun damage because I need to invest in other random combat skills for it to do that. I also wanted to invest 21 points into fitness in the combat tree but it's the same story as with the shotgun you need to level other powers for it to be effective. I'm not talking about profiles either. I am using it as short hand that the developers use to try and describe how the systems work...but since we are getting caught up on the language... Its the way they advertised the game. This feature is working, so it seems anyways, exactly as intended. You can play the game whatever way you want, respec how many times you want to, mix and match all your abilities in whatever configuration you find desirable, but if you want to do certain styles of gameplay in the game you are going to have to invest skills which support that style of gameplay. So if you want more shot gun damage, you will have to invest in skills that reflect that. This is how it pretty much works in most video games. Most video games are about choices you have to make and trade offs, especially early on, if you want to do one thing you could not neccessarily do another thing at first. It worked this way in the MET, especially with the added layer of the class system on top of everything else. Bottom line the freedom for custimization may not be quite up to your tastes but it offers about ten times the freedom the system did in the MET and couple that with passive bonuses you get from things like armor and crafted gear it might all balance out in the end.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 605 Likes: 511
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Post by kaind on Mar 16, 2017 22:50:32 GMT
I'm not talking about profiles either. I am using it as short hand that the developers use to try and describe how the systems work...but since we are getting caught up on the language... Its the way they advertised the game. This feature is working, so it seems anyways, exactly as intended. You can play the game whatever way you want, respec how many times you want to, mix and match all your abilities in whatever configuration you find desirable, but if you want to do certain styles of gameplay in the game you are going to have to invest skills which support that style of gameplay. So if you want more shot gun damage, you will have to invest in skills that reflect that. This is how it pretty much works in most video games. Most video games are about choices you have to make and trade offs, especially early on, if you want to do one thing you could not neccessarily do another thing at first. It worked this way in the MET, especially with the added layer of the class system on top of everything else. Bottom line the freedom for custimization may not be quite up to your tastes but it offers about ten times the freedom the system did in the MET and couple that with passive bonuses you get from things like armor and crafted gear it might all balance out in the end. Let me put it as simple as possible with a very blunt example. Let's say I want 2 damaging abilities and I go for: a) Concussive shot and Incinerate. Overload and Incinerate. Now setup B will be more powerful because Overload adds damage to Incinerate but Concussive shot does not, also Incinerate adds damage back to Overload so that power combo is much better. If you want to be more effective you stick to 1 type of powers.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 16, 2017 22:52:29 GMT
I'm not talking about profiles either. I am using it as short hand that the developers use to try and describe how the systems work...but since we are getting caught up on the language... Its the way they advertised the game. This feature is working, so it seems anyways, exactly as intended. You can play the game whatever way you want, respec how many times you want to, mix and match all your abilities in whatever configuration you find desirable, but if you want to do certain styles of gameplay in the game you are going to have to invest skills which support that style of gameplay. So if you want more shot gun damage, you will have to invest in skills that reflect that. This is how it pretty much works in most video games. Most video games are about choices you have to make and trade offs, especially early on, if you want to do one thing you could not neccessarily do another thing at first. It worked this way in the MET, especially with the added layer of the class system on top of everything else. Bottom line the freedom for custimization may not be quite up to your tastes but it offers about ten times the freedom the system did in the MET and couple that with passive bonuses you get from things like armor and crafted gear it might all balance out in the end. Let me put it as simple as possible with a very blunt example. Let's say I want 2 damaging abilities and I go for: a) Concussive shot and Incinerate. Overload and Incinerate. Now setup B will be more powerful because Overload adds damage to Incinerate but Concussive shot does not, also Incinerate adds damage back to Overload so that power combo is much better. If you want to be more effective you stick to 1 type of powers. Which for an early character makes sense.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by kaind on Mar 16, 2017 22:53:48 GMT
Let me put it as simple as possible with a very blunt example. Let's say I want 2 damaging abilities and I go for: a) Concussive shot and Incinerate. Overload and Incinerate. Now setup B will be more powerful because Overload adds damage to Incinerate but Concussive shot does not, also Incinerate adds damage back to Overload so that power combo is much better. If you want to be more effective you stick to 1 type of powers. Which for an early character makes sense. Alright, if that makes sense to you then fair enough. I wanted to be able to max out the effectiveness of individual powers and craft a build out of independently maxed out powers.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 16, 2017 23:09:33 GMT
The best thing about Andromeda is that it has that great classic sci-fi feel ME2 and ME3 missed. At least so far. Story, characters, combat, visuals... almost everything is great! I do not like the character creator, but that has been beaten to death already so I'm sure BioWare is aware. And Sara's facial expression does not change much at all, she always has that derpy smile. Even in very inappropriate situations. She looks like Ernie. Are you using default Sara? She has a wide mouth so it makes some of the animations and expressions look odd. Scott felt fine to me in comparison. Actually I'm trying Preset 1 Sara, and she still has the derpy smile. No idea why. Scott was not like that.
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Post by fialka on Mar 16, 2017 23:43:43 GMT
Keep scrolling through the settings til you get to "Custom", its next after Ultra Preset. Oh, wow, thank you! Appreciate the tip
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Post by ProbeAway on Mar 16, 2017 23:51:36 GMT
I'm not talking about profiles either. I am using it as short hand that the developers use to try and describe how the systems work...but since we are getting caught up on the language... Its the way they advertised the game. This feature is working, so it seems anyways, exactly as intended. You can play the game whatever way you want, respec how many times you want to, mix and match all your abilities in whatever configuration you find desirable, but if you want to do certain styles of gameplay in the game you are going to have to invest skills which support that style of gameplay. So if you want more shot gun damage, you will have to invest in skills that reflect that. This is how it pretty much works in most video games. Most video games are about choices you have to make and trade offs, especially early on, if you want to do one thing you could not neccessarily do another thing at first. It worked this way in the MET, especially with the added layer of the class system on top of everything else. Bottom line the freedom for custimization may not be quite up to your tastes but it offers about ten times the freedom the system did in the MET and couple that with passive bonuses you get from things like armor and crafted gear it might all balance out in the end. Let me put it as simple as possible with a very blunt example. Let's say I want 2 damaging abilities and I go for: a) Concussive shot and Incinerate. Overload and Incinerate. Now setup B will be more powerful because Overload adds damage to Incinerate but Concussive shot does not, also Incinerate adds damage back to Overload so that power combo is much better. If you want to be more effective you stick to 1 type of powers. Just to clarify a couple of things: 1. It's a 2% bonus per point, not 1%. So if you max shotguns and combat fitness (which seems pretty logical for a vanguard) you'll get an 84% boost to health, shields and shotgun damage+accuracy. That's still pretty significant. You'd get more if you went with combat actives too but then you wouldn't get to play with biotics. 2. Using your example above, the overload/incinerate combo isn't necessarily better. It will make your tech skills more powerful, but on the other hand the concussive/incinerate combo lets you boost weapon damage/accuracy and health/shields at the expense of a bit of power damage (assuming you've put even a few points into combat passives). It seems to me that each build has certain trade offs. Yeah, your biotics will be better if you only focus on the biotic tree (there has to be SOME benefit to sticking to one class, right?) but you'll lose out on other areas that would benefit if you spread your skills. The lesson appears to be that you should invest in passives in a particular class where you plan on taking actives from that same class, with the caveat that maxing a couple of combat passives will still be useful to any class. I get that you'd be bummed if you were expecting something else. For me tho, this seems like a balanced approach.
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Post by dalinne on Mar 17, 2017 0:00:40 GMT
Can we put a POLL? Every thread is better with a POLL :amirite:
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Post by colfoley on Mar 17, 2017 0:02:37 GMT
Which for an early character makes sense. Alright, if that makes sense to you then fair enough. I wanted to be able to max out the effectiveness of individual powers and craft a build out of independently maxed out powers. you can do that though. It might take you a little longer to do it depending on your selections but with no level cap and no restrictions of ability you can do anything you want. It just comes down to player choice what you focus on and take the 'consequences' as they come.
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kaind
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 605 Likes: 511
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Post by kaind on Mar 17, 2017 0:07:16 GMT
Just to clarify a couple of things: 1. It's a 2% bonus per point, not 1%. So if you max shotguns and combat fitness (which seems pretty logical for a vanguard) you'll get an 84% boost to health, shields and shotgun damage+accuracy. That's still pretty significant. You'd get more if you went with combat actives too but then you wouldn't get to play with biotics. 2. Using your example above, the overload/incinerate combo isn't necessarily better. It will make your tech skills more powerful, but on the other hand the concussive/incinerate combo lets you boost weapon damage/accuracy and health/shields at the expense of a bit of power damage (assuming you've put even a few points into combat passives). It seems to me that each build has certain trade offs. Yeah, your biotics will be better if you only focus on the biotic tree (there has to be SOME benefit to sticking to one class, right?) but you'll lose out on other areas that would benefit if you spread your skills. The lesson appears to be that you should invest in passives in a particular class where you plan on taking actives from that same class, with the caveat that maxing a couple of combat passives will still be useful to any class. I get that you'd be bummed if you were expecting something else. For me tho, this seems like a balanced approach. It's per point not per skill point. 1 skill which is worth 21 skill points is 6 points which in turn is 12% if each of them gives 2%, so 2 maxed out skills would give 24% not 84%.
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Post by ProbeAway on Mar 17, 2017 0:34:33 GMT
Just to clarify a couple of things: 1. It's a 2% bonus per point, not 1%. So if you max shotguns and combat fitness (which seems pretty logical for a vanguard) you'll get an 84% boost to health, shields and shotgun damage+accuracy. That's still pretty significant. You'd get more if you went with combat actives too but then you wouldn't get to play with biotics. 2. Using your example above, the overload/incinerate combo isn't necessarily better. It will make your tech skills more powerful, but on the other hand the concussive/incinerate combo lets you boost weapon damage/accuracy and health/shields at the expense of a bit of power damage (assuming you've put even a few points into combat passives). It seems to me that each build has certain trade offs. Yeah, your biotics will be better if you only focus on the biotic tree (there has to be SOME benefit to sticking to one class, right?) but you'll lose out on other areas that would benefit if you spread your skills. The lesson appears to be that you should invest in passives in a particular class where you plan on taking actives from that same class, with the caveat that maxing a couple of combat passives will still be useful to any class. I get that you'd be bummed if you were expecting something else. For me tho, this seems like a balanced approach. It's per point not per skill point. 1 skill which is worth 21 skill points is 6 points which in turn is 12% if each of them gives 2%, so 2 maxed out skills would give 24% not 84%. Not according to what I'm reading. The wording for each passive is "...with each skill point invested in the [combat/biotic/tech] skill group." So unless they've stuffed up the wording, it's 84% in my example above.
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Post by dalinne on Mar 17, 2017 0:43:02 GMT
This is not my final "review" but after playing some hours I'm really angry that I can't roleplay like I want. I want to be relentless, stubborn bitch like my good old Shepard and I can't, I just don't have the choice. EVERY scene were I had the "Mass Effect OT sense" of having the choice to be an ass or just cold left my furiously searching for the answer I want. This probably annoys me even more than the CC. If someone questions my competence I want to either say something like fuck off or seize them by the collar whispering in their ears that I'm gonna eat their mother and NOT "Oh I'm sorry", "Yes madam" or "Whoop Dee Doo, I'm casually saying yes". This problem is of course non existent for paragon players but I feel pressured into the role of a young, liberal child with no self esteem, no balls, no authority and no character. PLEASE anybody tell me that this changes soon (I'm on the Tempest now for the first time) although I doubt it Two answers mostly, which effect the same thing is not an improvement over the three choices for "nice","indifferent", "unfriendly" PLUS"asshole" and "angel" which we had in the OT. Although is not a big problem for me, replaywise I hope we eventually have the possibility to be an ass. So I kinda agree with you in that point
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Post by sabreracer on Mar 17, 2017 0:44:15 GMT
Don't know if this has been mentioned but Origin notifications cause stuttering and slow down. As my friends list is starting to get pretty active because of ME:A I'm getting this several times a minute in some cases. Somebody is on-line, someone is playing Mass Effect, now they stopped and started again. The rest of the time it's smooth and 60FPS (i5 7600k and GTX1070) I have almost the same set up and I'm getting 60 fps at 1440p. I'm really happy with the performance of this game pre game ready drivers. mine is running @ 2560x1080 For now I'm going to turn notifications off apart from invites and messages
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Post by meplayer on Mar 17, 2017 1:08:49 GMT
how long it took Bioware to make mass effect andromeda. Let's put it into perspective imagine all your high school years and your freshman year in college and put all those years together that's how long it took to make mass effect andromeda and it still has a lot of problems lol five years is a long time ... a lot of people needs to get fired at BioWare that's my opinion.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Mar 17, 2017 1:11:13 GMT
Said the game developer ^^
People should be fired at CDPR too, the game was just as buggy, if not worse with that save killer feature.
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I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: fatherjerusalem
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I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Mar 17, 2017 1:14:33 GMT
how long it took Bioware to make mass effect andromeda. Let's put it into perspective imagine all your high school years and your freshman year in college and put all those years together that's how long it took to make mass effect andromeda and it still has a lot of problems lol five years is a long time ... a lot of people needs to get fired at BioWare that's my opinion. This is why gamers are fucking reviled right now, just fyi. Calling for people to be fired because you don't like a game... get a god damned grip.
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Ianamus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights
Origin: EJ107
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 17, 2017 1:24:04 GMT
Did anybody manage to change the colour of their casual outfit successfully? I tried five times but it just kept changing back to white, so I gave up.
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Post by meplayer on Mar 17, 2017 1:33:22 GMT
I never said I didn't like the game I'm just reminding people how long five years can be and what can be accomplished in those years. and in five years time of making mass effect andromeda, you would think it was going to be all nice and shiny but it's broken and still needs a lot of work.
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fatherjerusalem
N2
I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: fatherjerusalem
Posts: 239 Likes: 980
inherit
1868
0
980
fatherjerusalem
I used to think that I was cynical and a pessimist. Then I found the BSN.
239
Oct 27, 2016 19:28:35 GMT
October 2016
fatherjerusalem
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
fatherjerusalem
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Post by fatherjerusalem on Mar 17, 2017 1:41:18 GMT
This is why gamers are fucking reviled right now, just fyi. Calling for people to be fired because you don't like a game... get a god damned grip. I never said I didn't like the game I'm just reminding people how long and what can be accomplished in five years... and in five years time of making mass effect andromeda you would think it was going to be all nice and shiny but it's broken and still needs a lot of work. I know I oftentimes call for people to be fired because I liked something.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 17, 2017 1:43:19 GMT
This is why gamers are fucking reviled right now, just fyi. Calling for people to be fired because you don't like a game... get a god damned grip. I never said I didn't like the game I'm just reminding people how long and what can be accomplished in five years... and in five years time of making mass effect andromeda you would think it was going to be all nice and shiny but it's broken and still needs a lot of work. Patches are on the way.
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