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Post by fenris on Mar 21, 2017 21:02:33 GMT
Except I didn't say the grains of sand are from the sides, like cropping. Also you forget that even if it WAS just cropping, you then stretch the picture to fit the same size of screen.
There is no way around it - less pixels = lower quality (assuming the source used all the pixels to begin with, i.e. if the original is 1080p, showing it on a 4K screen or a 1080p screen won't lose quality, as all pixels are shown in both).
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Post by revener on Mar 21, 2017 21:22:11 GMT
no if the pixels are the same size the quality is the same, the picture size may be different though.
at 1920x1080 VS 1600x1200 the only thing that happens is that you lose some of the picture to the sides, some of those pixels are then put on the top and bottom the rest are thrown away, nothing is streched.
now if you compare to say 1280X1024 the quality would be worse.
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ArabianIGoggles
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on Mar 21, 2017 23:04:45 GMT
Fenris just leave. You clearly don't know a thing about monitor technology.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 22, 2017 0:00:39 GMT
Not being smarmy.... but you're genuinely using a CRT in this day and age? I cannot understand why, their image quality is inferior to modern monitors, they consume 3x more electricity than a LCD and are simply inferior in all regards (shorter lifespan as well on them, they tend to blow a fuse after 5 years on average)... they are also museum pieces, I can't even find a store that sells them unless I went to a pawn shop perhaps. Curious why you like CRT monitors. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
I also have a CRT and it's 10 years old and still works fine. Don't need to upgrade the hardware for my "Browser" system to access email + facebook + internet. It's a Win 7 3GB + Athlon II + 500GB + Nvidia 9200 video card. It's parked in a corner and does its duty quite well.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 22, 2017 0:06:17 GMT
Native Resolution: You can use any resolution up to the max that a monitor can handle and it will look just as good. On a LED, you must view it at maximum or Native resolution. Anything smaller than that will cause scaling which results in image quality loss. Wait a minute, hang on... Are you telling me that lower resolution has less quality than the maximum resolution the screen has?! No way... Also, that will also be a problem with any screen, no matter which one - if you use a lower resolution, you'll get less details, no matter which screen you're using. Just saying... ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Not with CRT's. Remember it's an analog signal and the electron beam paints the picture on the phosphorus coating on the inner portion of the glass.
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Post by fenris on Mar 22, 2017 9:05:41 GMT
I'll go about it the other way: You have two Panasonic 65" TVs. One is a full HD 1080p screen. The second is a 4K HDR screen. Your source material for the first is a blu ray, the second is a native 4K blu ray (i.e. the first has a 1920x1080 source, the second has a 3840x2160). Which one has better quality? By quality, I mean which picture will have more details on the screen for the same frame in a movie, let's say The Revenant?
It's very simple to know that the 4K will have far better quality. For the same screen size, you can have 4 times the pixels. Assuming the source material has information for each and every pixel, the 4K screen will have 4 times the amount of picture information than the 1080p one.
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Post by revener on Mar 22, 2017 13:43:48 GMT
I'll go about it the other way: You have two Panasonic 65" TVs. One is a full HD 1080p screen. The second is a 4K HDR screen. Your source material for the first is a blu ray, the second is a native 4K blu ray (i.e. the first has a 1920x1080 source, the second has a 3840x2160). Which one has better quality? By quality, I mean which picture will have more details on the screen for the same frame in a movie, let's say The Revenant? It's very simple to know that the 4K will have far better quality. For the same screen size, you can have 4 times the pixels. Assuming the source material has information for each and every pixel, the 4K screen will have 4 times the amount of picture information than the 1080p one. ... and you totally missed what we where saying of course the 4 have better quality no one here have disputed that or is going to dispute that. Pixel size matters too. 4k fits more pixel in the same area compared to 1080p = smaller pixels. 1600X1200 have less pixels than 1080p yes, but it is on a smaller surface so you need less pixels to fill the surface. If you filled the 4:3 surface with the same amount of pixels as the 1080p surface and they had roughly the same physical screen size the 1600x1200 would havew better quality because then the pixels would be smaller compared to the pixels on the 1080p screen you call a 1600x1200 a cropped and rearranged 1920x1080 to fit a smaller surface and then the extra pixels don't fit. but the pixel size is the same.
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Post by fenris on Mar 22, 2017 14:21:43 GMT
You're talking about PPI, But that's only half the issue. If the extra pixels don't fit, it means that you'll lose some of the information you would have gotten if you hadn't done that, i.e. you lose quality. Unless you define quality completely different than I do, having less pixels (=less information on the screen) even if the pixels are the same size is losing quality. Eventually it all comes down to numbers. Having a smaller screen doesn't mean the quality is better just because the pixels are smaller. Eventually each pixels can still show only one thing. What you want isn't just higher PPI, but a high PPI on a larger screen. If you take a small screen with high PPI you still won't get the same amount of detail as you would on a larger screen with the same amount of PPI (phones are a good example of this, and the reason the screens get bigger through the generations, not just the PPI). In fact, one could argue that in order to enjoy the higher PPI, you'd also need a larger screen (an argument I've been hearing a lot from many 4K enthusiasts).
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 22, 2017 14:54:18 GMT
Native Resolution: You can use any resolution up to the max that a monitor can handle and it will look just as good. On a LED, you must view it at maximum or Native resolution. Anything smaller than that will cause scaling which results in image quality loss. Wait a minute, hang on... Are you telling me that lower resolution has less quality than the maximum resolution the screen has?! No way... Also, that will also be a problem with any screen, no matter which one - if you use a lower resolution, you'll get less details, no matter which screen you're using. Just saying... EDIT: Losing information and losing quality are not the same, regardless how you try and fail to equivocate the terms. Stop man, it is painful.
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Post by revener on Mar 22, 2017 14:54:31 GMT
No I just define picture quality as just that picture quality and TBH I have never felt that I lose something by not having a wider screen and I do even play on my GFs computer occasionally (she have 1080p). The diference between 1600x1200 and 1920x1080 is negligible. Picture quality is the same (not bringing in the difference between crt and lcd into the discussion)
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Post by fenris on Mar 22, 2017 15:13:37 GMT
EDIT: Losing information and losing quality are not the same, regardless how you try and fail to equivocate the terms. Stop man, it is painful. That would depend on the information you lost, now wouldn't it? You keep ignoring my argument about the source. Here's an example - I create a computer image that shows the vast multitude of colors in the universe! On my great 4K screen I can show up to 2,073,600 different colors! On my 1600x1200 screen I can show 1,920,000 colors. Sure, each pixel has exactly one color in each image (same quality!), the contrast and lighting is the same (same quality!), but is it the same quality? You could define it as such, if you only include those measurements. But the 4K image will still be better (=higher quality in my book. Feel free to use your own book).
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 22, 2017 15:17:31 GMT
But we aren't talking about 4k screens.
We are talking about CRT resolution and aspect ratio.
Argue yourself into as many circles as you want, and then when you are tired take a nap.
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Post by revener on Mar 22, 2017 16:22:13 GMT
and we where comparing 1600x1200 to 1920x1080 not to 4K (3840x2160). Hell I even said that "of course 4k is better quality" and no on else have tried to argue that 4k is not better. btw 4k can show 8294400 pixel so in your theoretiocal example you could even have that many colours on the screen 1920x1080 (1080p) and 1600x1200 is apart from the aspect ratio almost identical and the quality is the same.
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Post by fenris on Mar 22, 2017 22:37:51 GMT
It doesn't matter, full HD still has more pixels than 1600x1200, hence it can cram in more details. Either we are not understanding each other, or we're talking about different things. The same principle that applies to 4K also applies to full HD. If you agree one is better because of the extra pixels, than there is no reason the other isn't. It's true that the difference between full HD and 1600x1200 isn't huge (about 153,600 pixels by my count), bu it's still there. I also agree that in the vast majority of cases, the chance that each pixel will have his own information apart from the rest is slim. But the lack of pixels is still there.
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Post by lexxxich on Mar 22, 2017 23:46:38 GMT
Arguing what's "better" is entirely theoretical in this case. The practise is, a number of people have modern-sized monitors capable of modern-sized resolution, which the game does not support for "reasons". What those reasons are I can only guess, but all recent games using the same engine (such as Battlefield 1, for example) supported 4:3 natively.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 23, 2017 1:40:26 GMT
Look do you realize that it's not as simple as just ticking a box in a configure file to allow for 4:3 CRT resolutions? It's like trying to put today's mixture of gas into an original model T engine. It's not that easy. They have to account for a different pixel count plus adjust the game image so you don't loose too much.
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Post by fenris on Mar 23, 2017 5:09:18 GMT
And change the interface.
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House Targaryen
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Post by House Targaryen on Mar 23, 2017 6:34:57 GMT
No 800*600?
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Post by revener on Mar 23, 2017 13:44:26 GMT
Look do you realize that it's not as simple as just ticking a box in a configure file to allow for 4:3 CRT resolutions? It's like trying to put today's mixture of gas into an original model T engine. It's not that easy. They have to account for a different pixel count plus adjust the game image so you don't loose too much. Actually they don't have to do any of that, you tell the engine what to show and at what resolution and it does that. The only thing I've seen messed up in any game is if they have a cluttered/crappy UI so you get some overlap. MEA don't.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 23, 2017 15:58:04 GMT
Look do you realize that it's not as simple as just ticking a box in a configure file to allow for 4:3 CRT resolutions? It's like trying to put today's mixture of gas into an original model T engine. It's not that easy. They have to account for a different pixel count plus adjust the game image so you don't loose too much. Actually they don't have to do any of that, you tell the engine what to show and at what resolution and it does that. The only thing I've seen messed up in any game is if they have a cluttered/crappy UI so you get some overlap. MEA don't. If you want it as just a compatibility sure but to do it properly they do.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Mar 23, 2017 16:31:31 GMT
I used a CRT for many years. I resisted moving to a LCD screen for two reasons.
First, my CRT had 1200 vertical pixels, and I saw no reason to downgrade to 1080. I haven't had as few as 1080 vertical pixels since 1998.
Second, CRTs support a lower minimum brightness. If working or playing in a dimly-lit room, a bright LCD screen can be difficult to use, particularly if you need to switch between the screen and paper. I generally wanted my work space to all be the same brightness, and LCD screens would not do that.
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Post by ashar on Mar 24, 2017 13:48:14 GMT
Sadly, i have no choice, due to a neurological condition i suffer from, i get migraines withing seconds of looking at seemingly any flat screen. Ive tried LCD, LED and Plasma screens of various sizes and within seconds i get a migraine, where as my crt monitor gives me no trouble, i can sit infront of it all day, and im fine. I also get migraines from a many other various sources too, and theres nothing anyone can currently do about it, but for now, i have to rely on my trusty CRT.
As for developers not being able to accomadate old ratios, 99% of all other games can manage it, even indie devleoers manage it, so somehow it is beyond this development team's capabilities? All the other latest modern games still support 4:3 so not supporting them is just lazy.
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Post by London on Mar 24, 2017 15:13:50 GMT
Dumb question but can you make the resolution higher than "auto 1080"? I can't get any other option fhan this.
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Post by revener on Mar 25, 2017 9:02:21 GMT
Btw running it as windowed bordeless seems to work.
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Post by Ffup on Mar 25, 2017 9:10:18 GMT
Btw running it as windowed bordeless seems to work. Except the menus don't scale to the correct width so you lose some text on the skill menu, for example. :/ At least it did that for me. I imagine you lose some information on the sides in the actual game as well, but not sure.
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