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Post by Addictress on Mar 19, 2017 14:59:46 GMT
*** story spoiler ***
The most incredible stupid aspect of the Early Access trial is the complete destruction of lore and disrespectful, random "leap forward" in technology by making SAM "the most advanced AI ever known, surpassing the essence of humanity" and SAM physiologically merging with Ryder.... and making him super-powered.
No, I'm not making this up. That's actually what happens, and also how they describe it.
EDI was a multinational, trillion-dollar project over the course of decades with several iterations in the military before becoming what she was under Cerberus. And even she didn't claim she was "far beyond what a human being was in essence."
Basically, SAM is presented as being pretty much Reaper-grade AI.
Are you kidding me? People cry about the dumb space magic evident in the synethesis ending. Heh... my god, this is like taking Synthesis and making it a gimmick years before the actual ending of ME3.
I don't know how to describe to you just how shell-shocked I am at the stupidity of this writing decision. I knew they had to hand-wave the changing of profiles somehow. This is how they did that. By having this "superpowered physiological connection with SAM," the Pathfinder can change his profile at will and be an engineer or biotic or whatever.
I just
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Really, though? *waving hand in front of Bioware's face* Why
;___;
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Post by Addictress on Mar 19, 2017 15:05:37 GMT
They have a Lazarus Project type sequence that goes through Ryder's blood stream to show his nerves and tissues merging with SAM I'm not fucking kidding
wow
I was kind of
I had like, that thing where you're just so shocked, it doesn't really hit you until you sleep on it for a day or two. I didn't ... I couldn't process the stupidity until this morning when I reflected on my life.
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Post by pdusen on Mar 19, 2017 15:07:45 GMT
Why are you under the impression people haven't talked about this? Most of this info about SAM was already known or guessed and discussed to death.
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Post by stealthfox94 on Mar 19, 2017 15:08:08 GMT
Oh boy......
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Post by Addictress on Mar 19, 2017 15:08:40 GMT
Why are you under the impression people haven't talked about this? Most of this info about SAM was already known or guessed and discussed to death. I haven't seen it anywhere. Everyone is talking about the facial animations. |
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Post by goishen on Mar 19, 2017 15:09:04 GMT
They have a Lazarus Project type sequence that goes through Ryder's blood stream to show his nerves and tissues merging with SAM I'm not fucking kidding wow I was kind of I had like, that thing where you're just so shocked, it doesn't really hit you until you sleep on it for a day or two. I didn't ... I couldn't process the stupidity until this morning when I reflected on my life. You can't believe you've spent five years of your life waiting for this game? I'm in the same boat, trust me. |
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Post by pdusen on Mar 19, 2017 15:09:43 GMT
Why are you under the impression people haven't talked about this? Most of this info about SAM was already known or guessed and discussed to death. I haven't seen it anywhere. Everyone is talking about the facial animations. That's because it's old news. |
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Post by Addictress on Mar 19, 2017 15:10:49 GMT
I haven't seen it anywhere. Everyone is talking about the facial animations. That's because it's old news. You're the cantankerous poster who is mean. Begone. |
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 19, 2017 15:11:21 GMT
The AI and Andromeda as a whole do not care for lore or logic, that's been known for a long time.
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Post by Addictress on Mar 19, 2017 15:14:46 GMT
The AI and Andromeda as a whole do not care for lore or logic, that's been known for a long time. Yes but we talked ourselves into accepting Andromeda and thinking that they'd bend backwards to force the Initiative to kinda respect the lore. That's why I stayed on board all this time. And yeah, now I see a bunch of SAM topics. I always stayed in general discussion and never saw this sub-forum so... yeah. |
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Post by Addictress on Mar 19, 2017 15:16:57 GMT
I mean, right? We convinced ourselves Andromeda could work if there was a hidden reason like ...the backers believed Shepard
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Post by Sah291 on Mar 19, 2017 15:20:11 GMT
I don't know, it's not really any more far fetched to me than the whole ME2 Lazarus project, bringing Shepard back to life, etc. It felt very similair both in how it was presented, and how it happens very early in the game, and is there to explain a gameplay mechanic.
Personally, I don't feel like they really need to justify a gameplay mechanic this way. But well, you're right that this heavily builds on the synthesis theme from the trilogy (certainly seems to be on the level of Reaper technology), and has huge implications. I hope it gets explored more deeply in the story over the course of the game...both the back story of how it was created and how it effects Ryder. I mean, the protagonist is literally possessed by/merged with an AI. It could potentially be really great, or it could be treated as a cheap gameplay gimmick, if it's just ignored. Is AI going to continue to be a major theme in ME:A, like it was in the trilogy?
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Post by goishen on Mar 19, 2017 15:23:33 GMT
Well, my general impression of SAM is just that he won't STFU. There is no exploration in this game.
"Pathfinder, you remember that datapad that you found that had the separatists outpost on it? We've reached that outpost." "Pathfinder, you can mine here." "Pathfinder, your bowels are increasing in size, indicating a large amount of mass, indicating that you need to take a dump."
Err, can you just shut up?
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Post by themikefest on Mar 19, 2017 15:29:02 GMT
It is something you cannot comprehend.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 15:55:27 GMT
Well, my general impression of SAM is just that he won't STFU. There is no exploration in this game. "Pathfinder, you remember that datapad that you found that had the separatists outpost on it? We've reached that outpost." "Pathfinder, you can mine here." "Pathfinder, your bowels are increasing in size, indicating a large amount of mass, indicating that you need to take a dump." Err, can you just shut up? "Pathfinder, do you want me to shut up?" |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 19, 2017 16:10:58 GMT
Yeah, we talked about this a while ago. I was so caught up in skepticism over the gameplay mechanic -- the last thing the series needed was even more awesomeness for the PC -- that I didn't stop to think that lore-wise it was worse.
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Post by Addictress on Mar 19, 2017 16:34:24 GMT
I don't know, it's not really any more far fetched to me than the whole ME2 Lazarus project, bringing Shepard back to life, etc. It felt very similair both in how it was presented, and how it happens very early in the game, and is there to explain a gameplay mechanic. Personally, I don't feel like they really need to justify a gameplay mechanic this way. But well, you're right that this heavily builds on the synthesis theme from the trilogy (certainly seems to be on the level of Reaper technology), and has huge implications. I hope it gets explored more deeply in the story over the course of the game...both the back story of how it was created and how it effects Ryder. I mean, the protagonist is literally possessed by/merged with an AI. It could potentially be really great, or it could be treated as a cheap gameplay gimmick, if it's just ignored. Is AI going to continue to be a major theme in ME:A, like it was in the trilogy? Well I allowed Lazarus Project because the original trilogy didn't make medical science a large part of its arc. We knew humans could live to 150 so obviously medical science has advanced greatly. Allowing one special trillion-credit project to rehabilitate a clincally dead person didn't seem lore-breaking. Because they never admitted it was impossible previously. AI, however, was explored at length. From its reverence of the complexity of reaper AI, to the novelty of EDI. |
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 19, 2017 16:48:09 GMT
It is something you cannot comprehend. Seriously stupid ass explanations are not new to the series. |
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 19, 2017 17:27:20 GMT
I don't see what's so weird about that. Pacemakers regulate the body, and we have those now. Also, how much do we know of Ellen's research?
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Post by blackjimmy on Mar 19, 2017 17:34:52 GMT
I'm not really seeing any issues with SAM and the Lore. I'm bothered by this game insisting that any AI will inevitably turn on it's creators like ME3, but I'm sure I'll get over it.
I'm struggling to understand what you're thoughts on the issues are though. Can you try explaining what the exact problems are? Less top left dialogue choice, more top right.
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Post by spacebeetle on Mar 19, 2017 18:12:21 GMT
I think you forgot to add that even then, EDI needed Reaper’s tech to become fully sentient (which all in itself explains why EDI could be so smart).
I agree that this time Bioware writers overplayed their hand with SAM.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Mar 19, 2017 18:46:55 GMT
I think the Illusive Man funded the entire thing and donated his daughter Cora to the project. Pop Ryder was his best friend and Pop let the Illusive Man do all his AI stuff to him and his kids and now, here we are, living the Illusive Man's dream except that his daughter Cora was supposed to take over after Pop died. Or something like that.  ETA: Ryder not Riley  |
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Post by spacebeetle on Mar 19, 2017 18:52:24 GMT
And it only gets worse, I'm afraid.  |
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Post by spacebeetle on Mar 19, 2017 18:57:39 GMT
And it only gets worse, I'm afraid. Errr... Are you talking about actual spoilers? Yeah. I watched gameplay videos of people who got pretty far with the main quest. Up until: The Salarian Ark. And more. It is almost as the plot hole SAM becomes, reaches critical mass and becomes a black hole of senselessness. And this without addressing all the problems SAM entails. |
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Post by cameronlfc on Mar 19, 2017 19:01:12 GMT
Bioware just needed a way to make it so you can change from a biotic superwarrior to a tech engineer instantly, I'm not really the kind of guy to get worked up about stupid bits of plot, so i'm not too upset about it.
I think you're overreacting, I don't think the common person is going to get as annoyed about things like this than people on this forum, who are really in to the franchise, so I don't think something like this will be the death knell for the series
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