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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Apr 18, 2017 9:52:50 GMT
About the whitewashing thing: No whitewashing here. Iron Fist was always a white dood. I would have preferred for the original character to be asian but he's trope/stereotype either way so whatever. Actually watching Iron Fist got me upset that Elektra was cast as asian in Daredevil. I'd rather have asian people doing asian shit but i don't like to see ethnicity changes in characters because I'll be damned if Blade or Storm get changed to anything other than what they are. Jake Gyllenhaal as The Prince Of Persia was a slap in the face to every north African, middle eastern, and south asian actor out there. Prime example of whitewashing. As was Exodus Gods And Kings. As was Gods Of Egypt. As is Ghost In The Shell. Just my opinion. Have you seen Persian people, from the region of the world that was known as Persia? Quite a lot of them can pass for straight-up Caucasian. "Aryan" did originally refer to people from this area, after all. If anything, Jake Gyllenhaal was cast because he's a tremendously famous star who will bring in ticket sales. Also, as an aside, Sofia Boutella (a French-Algerian woman born in Algeria) is cast as the titular mummy in the new The Mummy film being made, and is currently facing controversy and accusations of "whitewashing" despite being from a country directly neighboring the one that her character is from, and very strongly resembling someone from Egypt. Likewise, Rami Malek, an Egyptian actor, was accused of whitewashing for his role in the Night at the Museum films, where he played a pharaoh, despite him being fully Egyptian. As for Ghost in the Shell, her body is robotic, in a multi-ethnic society that is racially mixed (presumably in Japan, but there are white, Asian, black, Latino, and Indian people all present), and has an in-universe reason given for why her body is so different from her original human ethnicity. Of all the examples of "whitewashing" in film, the Ghost in the Shell movie is probably the dumbest, most shitty example one can give, and it reeks of not seeing the movie but complaining anyway. I know what Persians look like and Jake Gyllenhaal doesn't look Persian. So many great non white, non black, non hispanic actors don't get a chance to shine. Not even when the subject material is about their people, culture, ethnicity, or nation of origin. Name 5 non white, non black, non hispanic actors off the top of your head. How many of them have had lead roles in American films? How many of them are household names like Denzel Washington or Kate Winslet? No looking anything up. Just go from memory. Good luck with that. In the Ghost In The Shell manga and original film, the country that these events take place in aren't ethnically mixed with blacks, whites, asians, and hispanics. It's just east asians. It's an ethnic mix of east asian groups. This was changed for the live action film so that it wouldn't look so out of place to have so many white people running around. And with Japanese names no less. Major Motoko Kusanagi is in a suped up full prosthetic body that is generic in appearance. Generic as in she doesn't stand out. She doesn't stand out in a country full of east asians. A white woman would stand out significantly. An east asian woman would not. Many cyborgs and robots have a similar if not the same face. It's a big part of her character as it helps her to question her sense of self. Is she real? Was she manufactured? Is she truly human? What does it mean to be human anyway? I didn't see the movie because I refuse to give my money to people who take something beautiful that i love and butcher it in such a fashion. My complaints about the film are numerous. The whitewashing is just one of them.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Apr 18, 2017 10:13:55 GMT
I haven't looked into the Sofia Boutella The Mummy issue but I'm assuming that there are people taking issue with her being made to look very pale or something because she's clearly not a white woman. Whatever. I'll look it up later.
I've been a fan of hers since The Kingsman btw. A film in which she was woefully underused imo.
I always liked the Mr Robot guy. Never even paid attention to his ethnicity now that I think about it. I never knew what he was and it never occurred to me to try to figure it out. He's just that skinny bug eyed kid to me.
I'm not some self proclaimed social justice warrior bending over backwards to save non whites from the sinister machinations of the evil white man. I'm just a man with his own opinions and viewpoints.
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Post by straykat on Apr 18, 2017 12:04:47 GMT
Have you seen Persian people, from the region of the world that was known as Persia? Quite a lot of them can pass for straight-up Caucasian. "Aryan" did originally refer to people from this area, after all. If anything, Jake Gyllenhaal was cast because he's a tremendously famous star who will bring in ticket sales. Also, as an aside, Sofia Boutella (a French-Algerian woman born in Algeria) is cast as the titular mummy in the new The Mummy film being made, and is currently facing controversy and accusations of "whitewashing" despite being from a country directly neighboring the one that her character is from, and very strongly resembling someone from Egypt. Likewise, Rami Malek, an Egyptian actor, was accused of whitewashing for his role in the Night at the Museum films, where he played a pharaoh, despite him being fully Egyptian. As for Ghost in the Shell, her body is robotic, in a multi-ethnic society that is racially mixed (presumably in Japan, but there are white, Asian, black, Latino, and Indian people all present), and has an in-universe reason given for why her body is so different from her original human ethnicity. Of all the examples of "whitewashing" in film, the Ghost in the Shell movie is probably the dumbest, most shitty example one can give, and it reeks of not seeing the movie but complaining anyway. I didn't see the movie because I refuse to give my money to people who take something beautiful that i love and butcher it in such a fashion. My complaints about the film are numerous. The whitewashing is just one of them. I doubt it can be topped anyways. I can watch it repeatedly.. Except Innocence. That was a mess (imo).
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Post by o Ventus on Apr 18, 2017 12:15:37 GMT
Have you seen Persian people, from the region of the world that was known as Persia? Quite a lot of them can pass for straight-up Caucasian. "Aryan" did originally refer to people from this area, after all. If anything, Jake Gyllenhaal was cast because he's a tremendously famous star who will bring in ticket sales. Also, as an aside, Sofia Boutella (a French-Algerian woman born in Algeria) is cast as the titular mummy in the new The Mummy film being made, and is currently facing controversy and accusations of "whitewashing" despite being from a country directly neighboring the one that her character is from, and very strongly resembling someone from Egypt. Likewise, Rami Malek, an Egyptian actor, was accused of whitewashing for his role in the Night at the Museum films, where he played a pharaoh, despite him being fully Egyptian. As for Ghost in the Shell, her body is robotic, in a multi-ethnic society that is racially mixed (presumably in Japan, but there are white, Asian, black, Latino, and Indian people all present), and has an in-universe reason given for why her body is so different from her original human ethnicity. Of all the examples of "whitewashing" in film, the Ghost in the Shell movie is probably the dumbest, most shitty example one can give, and it reeks of not seeing the movie but complaining anyway. I know what Persians look like and Jake Gyllenhaal doesn't look Persian. So many great non white, non black, non hispanic actors don't get a chance to shine. Not even when the subject material is about their people, culture, ethnicity, or nation of origin. Name 5 non white, non black, non hispanic actors off the top of your head. How many of them have had lead roles in American films? How many of them are household names like Denzel Washington or Kate Winslet? No looking anything up. Just go from memory. Good luck with that. In the Ghost In The Shell manga and original film, the country that these events take place in aren't ethnically mixed with blacks, whites, asians, and hispanics. It's just east asians. It's an ethnic mix of east asian groups. This was changed for the live action film so that it wouldn't look so out of place to have so many white people running around. And with Japanese names no less. Major Motoko Kusanagi is in a suped up full prosthetic body that is generic in appearance. Generic as in she doesn't stand out. She doesn't stand out in a country full of east asians. A white woman would stand out significantly. An east asian woman would not. Many cyborgs and robots have a similar if not the same face. It's a big part of her character as it helps her to question her sense of self. Is she real? Was she manufactured? Is she truly human? What does it mean to be human anyway? I didn't see the movie because I refuse to give my money to people who take something beautiful that i love and butcher it in such a fashion. My complaints about the film are numerous. The whitewashing is just one of them. Each incarnation of GITS is set in its own continuity. I don't care what the first movie or manga did, because the movie is not telling the same story as the manga or first movie. The manga and the first movie don't even tell the same story. The manga is separate from the '95 movie, which is separate from Innocence, which is separate from Stand Alone Complex, which is separate from Arise, and this movie is following that same precedent. I've had to explain this so many times that it's beginning to wear on my patience with the complaints that the movie doesn't follow "canon" or that it "butchers" things. It sounds like you just saw the '95 movie and nothing else. Ironically enough it's only Westerners who I've had to explain this to, the 2 Japanese people I've spoken to already recognized this >I didn't see the movie Yeah, I can tell. If general Japanese audiences can understand the movie, and the very creator of the franchise gives it his explicit praise, then maybe that should be a clue that it's not as bad as your confirmation bias suggests. The Major's birth name is even Motoko Kusanagi in the movie, and she was still a Japanese woman before cyberization. The movie addresses just about every one of your weird complaints, but fuck it, it "butchers" something that you claim to love, despite what I can tell is a lack of knowledge on the matter judging by that comment.
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 18, 2017 12:16:04 GMT
I haven't looked into the Sofia Boutella The Mummy issue but I'm assuming that there are people taking issue with her being made to look very pale or something because she's clearly not a white woman. I don't know anything about it, but might they be making her look pale because she's supposed to be undead?
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Post by straykat on Apr 18, 2017 12:19:57 GMT
I think the Stand Alone Complex continuity stands out to me the most.. and that had very much to do with a post World War scenario and east Asian geopolitical issues.
Scarlett actually looks like the movie version in some ways though. Err... except they're borrowing the SAC storyline of Kuze. Which, again, is about about the post War stuff (at least in the anime).
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Post by o Ventus on Apr 18, 2017 12:49:29 GMT
I think the Stand Alone Complex continuity stands out to me the most.. and that had very much to do with a post World War scenario and east Asian geopolitical issues. Scarlett actually looks like the movie version in some ways though. Err... except they're borrowing the SAC storyline of Kuze. Which, again, is about about the post War stuff (at least in the anime). Major's live-action movie appearance is a bit of a hybrid of her '95 movie and Arise looks. She has the brown coat that she wears in '95, and her hair most closely resembles her hair in Arise. The movie in general is a bit of a pastiche of the earlier works, but ultimately goes its own way in the later parts and becomes more original and less referential (except for the climax, the climax is almost directly lifted from the '95 movie). I'm not entirely sure how to feel about Kuze in the movie though. In the movie he's more similar to the Laughing Man or the Puppet Master (more PM than LM) than he is to SAC's Kuze, almost like the original plan was for him to be either the Laughing Man or the Puppet Master, but they changed it to Kuze at the last second and rewrote parts of his backstory to fit that. It may have been mentioned and I just forgot it, but I don't think there's any war in the live-action film timeline, at least not the world war. Kuze in the movie is definitely not tied to any war in the movie, which is another reason why I think Kuze was supposed to be someone else earlier in production. But then again, different mediums = different continuities, so ultimately it doesn't really matter. Still, since movie-Kuze is so similar to the Puppet Master, why not just make him the Pupper Master?
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Apr 18, 2017 12:53:22 GMT
@ o Ventus:
I've seen the original film and have read the manga. Both numerous times.
I've also seen the show, the sequel to the original film, and the 3 Arise movies.
I've also played the PSX game.
I'm also read other works by Masamune Shirow. Namely the Appleseed mangas and Orion.
I've also seen the 2 Appleseed movies.
That's just off the top of my head.
Also, I'm not going to change my mind about something simply because other people feel differently than I do. My views and opinions are my own.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Apr 18, 2017 12:56:43 GMT
I haven't looked into the Sofia Boutella The Mummy issue but I'm assuming that there are people taking issue with her being made to look very pale or something because she's clearly not a white woman. I don't know anything about it, but might they be making her look pale because she's supposed to be undead? That's what I figured as well. Ima go look up the issue right now. See what all the fuss is about.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Apr 18, 2017 13:03:57 GMT
I didn't go past the first page of my Google search but there doesn't seem to be any large outrage about whitewashing in The Mummy 2017.
Probably because there isn't any.
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