blaw
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Post by blaw on Mar 19, 2017 20:58:24 GMT
Before you think that I am just another hater: I really enjoyed my time with early access and I'm looking forward to the game.
But there is a potential big problem in MEA that many don't realize at the moment because they haven't played much of the game yet: the soundtrack. I don't think the music is bad, actually I love “A trial of hope” and “A better beginning” to the death. Great music, but a bad soundtrack
What do I mean by that:
There aren't nearly enough memorable motives, ideas and sounds for an apparently massive game like Andromeda. Games like Mass Effect need a wide variety of different authentic musical themes so you can immerse yourself better in the universe. Remember that feeling of curiosity, awe and exploration you had on the citadel? I argue that is partially because of tracks like “The presidium” and “The wards”. Remember the same feeling you got during your time spend in the galaxy map → “uncharted worlds”. The Mako: “Virmire ride Pumping up for action: “Suicide Mission” Watching Palaven burn: “The View of Palaven” Liara: “I was lost without you” Having emotions despite shitty writing: “An end once and for all”
I could go on and on but I think you got the point. Those kind of tracks immerse you in the story and the universe. And I hear a critical lack of those kind of tunes. Like I said it doesn't affect the game now but I am almost certain it will later on. Many players might think “why am I not that immersed and why can't I quite put my finger on it”. My answer: The Soundtrack. I think many of us wouldn't be that immersed into Mass Effect or games like Skyrim/Witcher if it wasn't for the soundtrack. And I even go as far to say that you would enjoy these games significantly less and give them worse scores.
I don't want to imply that John Paesano and his team didn't show nearly as much passion as Jack Wall, Sam Hulick and the rest of the OT composers did.... but I am. A a professional musician myself I am under the strong impression that either John Paesano didn't think that video game scores need that much work or there was a serious lack of communication between him and Bioware and the devs didn't make it clear what they need. Probably both.
I know they didn't chose one of the original composers because they wanted a new start, but man I wish at least one of them was involved.
There is one last hope: Maybe they didn't include some good tracks in the soundtrack. But I doubt it
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Post by Ivory Samoan on Mar 19, 2017 21:02:52 GMT
I actually thought a few times during my 10 hour stint, that the music was pretty damned amazing: like when Archon did that angry walk. I also really dig the theme music, so beautiful and exemplifies serenity and wonder IMO.
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blaw
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Post by blaw on Mar 19, 2017 21:17:57 GMT
I actually thought a few times during my 10 hour stint, that the music was pretty damned amazing: like when Archon did that angry walk. I also really dig the theme music, so beautiful and exemplifies serenity and wonder IMO. Of course there are amazing themes in it. The Archon Theme was a bit to cliche in my opinion.
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MASTER MENACE
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Post by MASTER MENACE on Mar 19, 2017 21:21:25 GMT
I've listened to the new MEA Galaxy Map music and I'm impressed. I prefer the old Galaxy Map music, but this is more subdued. Still happy with it though.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Mar 19, 2017 21:23:58 GMT
So far the music has been good enough for me though I have not heard anything close to being as memorable as some of the stuff from the trilogy. But then again the trilogy was intense so the music had to be. MEA feels more relaxed and chill over all. I bet as the game progresses a memorable track will come along.
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Post by bigbad on Mar 19, 2017 21:26:41 GMT
I think the opening track is quite stellar.
Edit: to be clear, that's one of the only pieces I've heard. Can't speak to the rest of the OST.
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blaw
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Post by blaw on Mar 19, 2017 21:28:55 GMT
So far the music has been good enough for me though I have not heard anything close to being as memorable as some of the stuff from the trilogy. But then again the trilogy was intense so the music had to be. MEA feels more relaxed and chill over all. I bet as the game progresses a memorable track will come along. Well, if you listen to the whole soundtrack that is not the case (in my opinion). That is why I think it might be a problem later on. (by the way you can already download it or listen to it on youtube)
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Post by empirex on Mar 19, 2017 21:44:03 GMT
I liked it so far.
I think I need to get stuck listening to it for 60-100 hours or so before I can decide.
Most soundtracks grow on me.
Heck even Uncharted World didn't blow me away the first time I heard it. I was just like "cool ambient music" and moved on. It was only after my second playthrough that I started to appreciate it more.
That's what good video game music should do... It needs to be a subtle tool within that game and slipping into our consciousness rather than being the star of the scenes we're watching.
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Post by guanxi on Mar 19, 2017 21:46:03 GMT
You can find the full soundtrack on youtube. It's incredible. It's very Marty O'Donnell.
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blaw
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Post by blaw on Mar 19, 2017 22:01:46 GMT
I liked it so far. I think I need to get stuck listening to it for 60-100 hours or so before I can decide. Most soundtracks grow on me. Heck even Uncharted World didn't blow me away the first time I heard it. I was just like "cool ambient music" and moved on. It was only after my second playthrough that I started to appreciate it more. That's what good video game music should do... It needs to be a subtle tool within that game and slipping into our consciousness rather than being the star of the scenes we're watching. Sorry, but it is almost like some of you didn't read my post. I don't see how the music on the soundtrack can do that. The OT Soundtrack did that. Sure there needs to be some very subtle and lowkey tunes/sounds to get an unease or depressed feeling for example. But I didn't hear anything subtle in the Soundtrack. Just 2 maybe 3 very good even amazing tracks and the rest is not memorable and doesn't evoke emotions (in my opinion). Therefore I think the feeling and atmosphere of the game will suffer
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 22:03:59 GMT
I actually thought a few times during my 10 hour stint, that the music was pretty damned amazing: like when Archon did that angry walk. I also really dig the theme music, so beautiful and exemplifies serenity and wonder IMO. I genuinely think that the combat music in this game is vastly superior to the trilogy. Can't say about the rest of the game because I'm not playing it yet. Just accompanying some videos.
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Post by Steelcan on Mar 19, 2017 22:08:47 GMT
You can find the full soundtrack on youtube. It's incredible. It's very Marty O'Donnell. I find this hard to believe, gonna listen to it now Hmm my thoughts so far: Its much more reminiscent of the musical direction Halo 4 and 5, which is not objectively bad, but I do not hear anything that reminds me of O'Donnell's work besides a few slim moments of strings.
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Post by sabu on Mar 19, 2017 22:50:06 GMT
being in audio production myself, I totally agree with you. But then again, we might be a bit more sensitive when it comes to audio. So whoever reads this, keep that in mind The whole Audio/Sound Team from the Trilogy did such an amazing job, so when I listened to the new soundtrack, I was really underwhelmed. I dont even think that he produced the trailermusic for the briefings? Because that sounded 100 times better and masse than anything from the original me:a ost.Or if he did, he did def put much more effort into it. But from what I expierenced of the trial so far, it is not the only problem. The implemantation itself of the music / SFX or the lack there of is,too. First off the audio/sound mix is all over the place.Overall it is good enough I guess ( though as I said, the trilogy guys always did an amazing Job to a level that inspired me to start in that field in the first place ). But the very first song for example is so overcompressed,it takes away all life,just listen that track to one of sam h. and compare the soundrange and width. And due to the average mixes of the sounds and music, it gets quite muddy when a lot is going on. It becomes especially appearent in multiplayer to a point where I can not enjoy it properly. compare the soundmix of this to me3s mp,just leagues ahead. Another thing I noticed are that some voices seems to be overmixed and sound unnatural then others,which I never expierenced in a megame before. And from a few cutscenes aside, the musical ques seem to be implemented more like additonal ambience with low volume than placed well like in previous me games to drive the action. Or the very first cutscene at the beginning when the hyperion hit the scourge and a cryopod is rolling towards you and your character falls to the ground? The soundplacement is so off and minimalistic that it robs all the tension, the swift hornsound doesnt help much either. Or when you are on the Nexus, no theme at all ,and the super minimalistic ambient sfx is not helping. Since there is a lot talking going on about that the game was rushed, I do not blame the soundengineers. In a huge project like this,especially when the schedule is not working out or the deadline is too short,it is very easy to get overworked and so the quality suffers. But my guess overall is that the guys who did the mix and sfx are newcomers to the aaa-scene. About the composer, I just think he did not deliver what Bioware had hoped for. But maybe when I finally get to play it, it gets better and the visuals combined with the ost will give me a different opinion, we will see I guess.
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Post by dagless on Mar 19, 2017 22:50:49 GMT
Games like Mass Effect need a wide variety of different authentic musical themes so you can immerse yourself better in the universe. Remember that feeling of curiosity, awe and exploration you had on the citadel? I argue that is partially because of tracks like “The presidium” and “The wards”. Remember the same feeling you got during your time spend in the galaxy map → “uncharted worlds”. The Mako: “Virmire ride Pumping up for action: “Suicide Mission” Watching Palaven burn: “The View of Palaven” Liara: “I was lost without you” Having emotions despite shitty writing: “An end once and for all” I could go on and on but I think you got the point. Those kind of tracks immerse you in the story and the universe. And I hear a critical lack of those kind of tunes. Like I said it doesn't affect the game now but I am almost certain it will later on. Many players might think “why am I not that immersed and why can't I quite put my finger on it”. My answer: The Soundtrack. You seem to be comparing music you experienced in the previous games with just listening to the Andromeda soundtrack. There's no context with the game, so you're not getting the complete package. Some soundtracks work well as standalone music (looking at you Clint Mansell), but not all do. Nor do they have to. They're plenty of soundtracks I think are truly excellent, which I'd never put on and just listen to. You even talk about your memories of playing the game emphasised by the music, and it's very likely you're feelings towards the music are enhanced by your memory of the game. Music does that. It can take you back to the time you first heard it. Disclaimer: I've not actually listened to it. I never listen to a soundtrack before watching the film/playing the game, for that very reason.
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Post by guanxi on Mar 19, 2017 23:01:02 GMT
You can find the full soundtrack on youtube. It's incredible. It's very Marty O'Donnell. I find this hard to believe, gonna listen to it now Hmm my thoughts so far: Its much more reminiscent of the musical direction Halo 4 and 5, which is not objectively bad, but I do not hear anything that reminds me of O'Donnell's work besides a few slim moments of strings. No Destiny vibes? Heavy use of string instrumentation, vocal synths in the background and long soundscape mood pieces like veold which remind me of the first 2 halo games.
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Post by R1Outcast on Mar 19, 2017 23:04:11 GMT
I think you're jumping the gun OP. The trial was only a very small part of the game. I'm sure there will be tons of memorable moments further into the story. We've barely scratched the surface.
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Post by admiralbonetopickmk2 on Mar 19, 2017 23:04:53 GMT
I couldnt agree more OP. For Andromeda its a shame they couldnt of stuck with Jack Wall and Sam Hulick, all the best bits of music, Mass Effect was those two composers. John Paesano's ME:A soundtrack isnt all that imo. Very generic, like so many other aspects of the game. Its not bad per se, but its not particulrly good either. Feels very Destiny-ish and Hollywood movie score at times. It all falls a bit flat, cookie cutter, its the supermarket own brand we're getting. "Meh"... would be the word the kids use these days. That's what Mass Effect Andromeda's soundtrack is. (Now if only they could've got Jon Hallur Haraldsson( or there's also the great login themes for each Eve exspansion, my favourites being(in no particular order) Trinity, Apocrypha, Kronos, Odessey, Hyperion, Rubicon, Oceanus, Rhea, Retribution, Phoebe, Crucible), just have him do the entire soundtrack instead. Now that wouldve been super fucking awesome. He'd of been the ideal composer for a game like this imo. His synth style and sound would have fit perfectly and enhanced the game's world and space atmosphere, be more befitting to a futuristic science fiction world that this game is set in, but at the same time fit with the vibe of Mass Effect as a whole). Though tbh with all the issues this game has the lacklustre soundtrack is the least of its worries. You can find the full soundtrack on youtube. It's incredible. It's very Marty O'Donnell. And thats part of the problem i feel. Mass Effect isnt Halo, its not Marty O'Donnell.. It shouldnt be trying to emulate that sound when it already has its own distinct flavour if you will. I feel like EA probably had some kinda committee to find out which type of music appeals to the widest audience(like whats popular in them Marvel movies, lets copy that for our game). Everything else in the game has a similiar safe and generic feel, so it wouldnt surprise me if they did that.
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Post by Addictress on Mar 19, 2017 23:10:50 GMT
Way too much Destiny. I mean it's literally the same music in ME:A's loading screens as in Destiny's loading screens =/
Some of the music is good - I really love the galaxy map music.
We will see. We haven't had major climactic plot points, yet.
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Post by guanxi on Mar 19, 2017 23:23:14 GMT
Way too much Destiny. I mean it's literally the same music in ME:A's loading screens as in Destiny's loading screens =/ Some of the music is good - I really love the galaxy map music. We will see. We haven't had major climactic plot points, yet. Vault and restistance are a bit halo. There's definitely some ME3 vibes in there. The prothean beacon theme, mars, surkesh, and rannoch and citadel dlc string to mind imediately. Undiscovered sounds a bit like it belongs in a latter day deus ex. Sounds like Mass Effect but with some influences from destiny, halo, deus ex. If you liked ME3 I think you'll enjoy it. If you liked the retro ME1 sounds you might be a bit disappointed.
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Post by simsimillia on Mar 19, 2017 23:24:07 GMT
being in audio production myself, I totally agree with you. But then again, we might be a bit more sensitive when it comes to audio. So whoever reads this, keep that in mind The whole Audio/Sound Team from the Trilogy did such an amazing job, so when I listened to the new soundtrack, I was really underwhelmed. I dont even think that he produced the trailermusic for the briefings? Because that sounded 100 times better and masse than anything from the original me:a ost.Or if he did, he did def put much more effort into it. But from what I expierenced of the trial so far, it is not the only problem. The implemantation itself of the music / SFX or the lack there of is,too. First off the audio/sound mix is all over the place.Overall it is good enough I guess ( though as I said, the trilogy guys always did an amazing Job to a level that inspired me to start in that field in the first place ). But the very first song for example is so overcompressed,it takes away all life,just listen that track to one of sam h. and compare the soundrange and width. And due to the average mixes of the sounds and music, it gets quite muddy when a lot is going on. It becomes especially appearent in multiplayer to a point where I can not enjoy it properly. compare the soundmix of this to me3s mp,just leagues ahead. Another thing I noticed are that some voices seems to be overmixed and sound unnatural then others,which I never expierenced in a megame before. And from a few cutscenes aside, the musical ques seem to be implemented more like additonal ambience with low volume than placed well like in previous me games to drive the action. Or the very first cutscene at the beginning when the hyperion hit the scourge and a cryopod is rolling towards you and your character falls to the ground? The soundplacement is so off and minimalistic that it robs all the tension, the swift hornsound doesnt help much either. Or when you are on the Nexus, no theme at all ,and the super minimalistic ambient sfx is not helping. Since there is a lot talking going on about that the game was rushed, I do not blame the soundengineers. In a huge project like this,especially when the schedule is not working out or the deadline is too short,it is very easy to get overworked and so the quality suffers. But my guess overall is that the guys who did the mix and sfx are newcomers to the aaa-scene. About the composer, I just think he did not deliver what Bioware had hoped for. But maybe when I finally get to play it, it gets better and the visuals combined with the ost will give me a different opinion, we will see I guess. Did we play the same trilogy? The first Mass Effect has some really great songs (like Vigil and Uncharted Worlds for example) but the overall sound design is really lacking. Almost all weapons sound awful, most of the powers too. Plus cutscenes have some issues with syncronizing sound with what is happening at times. Mass Effect 3's quality is all over the place. It has some of the best individual tracks, but at the same time themes from the previous two games are constantly recycled and reused. Sound mixing, at least in the original ending is extremely bad, they may have fixed that with EC, but I'm not sure. I agree that Mass Effect 2 was very good in the sound department. Which isn't really a surprise, considering how it's definetly the most polished game in the OT, possibly the most polished Bioware Game.
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Post by kino on Mar 19, 2017 23:35:51 GMT
I realize that everyone is going to have different responses to OST's, but I found the soundtrack to MEA to be very good. Now, will I find that to be the same after several different play throughs? I don't know, but as a first listen I wasn't displeased at all. It's certainly not going to affect the game for me.
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Post by brunobyof on Mar 20, 2017 0:07:05 GMT
Indeed, the soundtrack gets a lot better once you play the game and glue emotions into it. But, technically speaking, form what i have heard up until now, the tracks overall are okay, they seem to be correctly adjusted to the themes and all, nothing odd or horrible. However, there's a lack of intensity, drums, peaks, variety. it all sounds like noob artists, noobs but good.
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Post by sabu on Mar 20, 2017 0:15:06 GMT
<abbr title="Mar 20, 2017 0:24:07 GMT 1" data-timestamp="1489965847000" class="o-timestamp time">Mar 20, 2017 0:24:07 GMT 1</abbr>Did we play the same trilogy? The first Mass Effect has some really great songs (like Vigil and Uncharted Worlds for example) but the overall sound design is really lacking. Almost all weapons sound awful, most of the powers too. Plus cutscenes have some issues with syncronizing sound with what is happening at times. Mass Effect 3's quality is all over the place. It has some of the best individual tracks, but at the same time themes from the previous two games are constantly recycled and reused. Sound mixing, at least in the original ending is extremely bad, they may have fixed that with EC, but I'm not sure. I agree that Mass Effect 2 was very good in the sound department. Which isn't really a surprise, considering how it's definetly the most polished game in the OT, possibly the most polished Bioware Game. Haha yes I could not agree more, totally forgot me1s sounds and I related to 2 in most cases^^ (still me1 will be my fav) Besides the music though, I would say that the soundmix of 3`s combat was quite top notch,even compared to 2. Its just that the glaring difference between andromeda and 2,3 is pretty obvious.
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Post by simsimillia on Mar 20, 2017 0:24:39 GMT
<abbr title="Mar 20, 2017 0:24:07 GMT 1" data-timestamp="1489965847000" class="o-timestamp time">Mar 20, 2017 0:24:07 GMT 1</abbr>Did we play the same trilogy? The first Mass Effect has some really great songs (like Vigil and Uncharted Worlds for example) but the overall sound design is really lacking. Almost all weapons sound awful, most of the powers too. Plus cutscenes have some issues with syncronizing sound with what is happening at times. Mass Effect 3's quality is all over the place. It has some of the best individual tracks, but at the same time themes from the previous two games are constantly recycled and reused. Sound mixing, at least in the original ending is extremely bad, they may have fixed that with EC, but I'm not sure. I agree that Mass Effect 2 was very good in the sound department. Which isn't really a surprise, considering how it's definetly the most polished game in the OT, possibly the most polished Bioware Game. Haha yes I could not agree more, totally forgot me1s sounds and I related to 2 in most cases^^ (still me1 will be my fav) Besides the music though, I would say that the soundmix of 3`s combat was quite top notch,even compared to 2. Its just that the glaring difference between andromeda and 2,3 is pretty obvious. Combat soundmix was excellent in ME3 as well as quite a few of the in engine cutscenes. Specially during Priority: Earth however there are also cutscenes that are just flatout bad with missing sounds or music. Quality in ME3 is all over the place due to the rushed development. Hell the entirety of Priority: Earth is pretty much a mess. Unappealing and uninteresting levels that offer no new variety in gameplay. Uninspired combat music and combat encounters. [Disgusted Noise]
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Post by sabu on Mar 20, 2017 0:45:58 GMT
Haha yes I could not agree more, totally forgot me1s sounds and I related to 2 in most cases^^ (still me1 will be my fav) Besides the music though, I would say that the soundmix of 3`s combat was quite top notch,even compared to 2. Its just that the glaring difference between andromeda and 2,3 is pretty obvious. Combat soundmix was excellent in ME3 as well as quite a few of the in engine cutscenes. Specially during Priority: Earth however there are also cutscenes that are just flatout bad with missing sounds or music. Quality in ME3 is all over the place due to the rushed development. Hell the entirety of Priority: Earth is pretty much a mess. Unappealing and uninteresting levels that offer no new variety in gameplay. Uninspired combat music and combat encounters. [Disgusted Noise] Yeah pretty much went down the drain after the cerberus base Though I cant remember every detail , I watched this: Sums pretty much up what you said here. I never worked on a Bioware game scale before,but what I can tell from my experience is when the budget runs out or the official sound engineers have to work on more important content, the left out cutscenes/videos get outsourced or done by someone in studio who usually does other sound related work. And in the chaos of the last strech of a deadline it is not unusual that cutscenes like you described are simply not top priority anymore.( Ofc there is still always the factor how much effort the guy who worked on it put into,his field or not) What worries me for andromeda is just in the very first minutes the sounddesign,music and mix dont make a good impression...so I really hope it gets better.
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