inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Aug 21, 2016 10:59:56 GMT
I never played this way, hard question. If Vivienne become Divine, probably she want to dominate the Circles. The Circles maybe get more freedom, but it will the Chantry's freedom, Vivienne's freedom. If you trust in Vivienne as person, then maybe she is a good choice. What your Inquisitor hates in the Chantry? The religion? She don't believe in Andraste/the Maker? The Chantry's politics? Or? I think, Cassandra and Leliana are devoted, I dont know Vivienne, I think she likes Andraste, but probably more likes the power. If your Inquisitor not religious, then one point to Vivienne. However, I do not understand. The Circles was never independent from the Chantry. The Templars are Chantry's army. How you want Circles with Templars, without Chantry? Or Circles, without Templars and Chantry, as school and library? How seems that "far more freedom"? The mages can have privacy, marriage, family for example? Or this is too big risk? (Wynne is good person, I like her, but maybe not the best example... don't forget her child, the Chantry take away from her – and Wynne still believe the Circle-system. I think this is a big fat Stockholm-syndrome.) Against the people's wrath you can protect mages with the eliminate of the fear. This is the Chantry's responsibility, but Vivienne afraid, she not able to calm the people. (By the way: close the mages to protect them? Interesting viewpoint. The anarchy can only be eliminated by closing a group of [innocent] people?) That's the trouble, she'll do things with the Chantry instead of without it. Yep she's an atheist and hates the way the Chantry has dominated mages. She doesn't want anything to do with them. She wants the Circles back but as an independant organisation away from all religious zealots and doctrines. That's how she saw it. First the mages voted for freedom, which she disagreed with as it caused anarchy. Many innocent mages were murdered by rogue templars and frightened townspeople after that, all of which could've been avoided if the vote had gone the other way. Then the leaders of the mages signed themselves up to be Tevinter slaves. My IQ believes that the mages will have more protection under the Inquisition than being allowed to do more harm to their own cause. They protect themselves without the Templars, and the towers are they fortress, school and libraty? Okay, I understand. Now I not sure, Vivienne is the good choice. She probably does not allow such independence. (Only a few people likes the anarchy – I don't think, Anders' and rebel Hawke's goal was anarchy – , but it is difficult to achieve the freedom in a repressive regime without a revolution. The revolution is in most cases ends up into anarchy, and depending on the success, finally return to the old regime [but will change right or wrong direction], or the winners build a new one. The change is inevitable at all events, but the anarchy will dissipate over time.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
101
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 11:03:03 GMT
That's the trouble, she'll do things with the Chantry instead of without it. Yep she's an atheist and hates the way the Chantry has dominated mages. She doesn't want anything to do with them. She wants the Circles back but as an independant organisation away from all religious zealots and doctrines. That's how she saw it. First the mages voted for freedom, which she disagreed with as it caused anarchy. Many innocent mages were murdered by rogue templars and frightened townspeople after that, all of which could've been avoided if the vote had gone the other way. Then the leaders of the mages signed themselves up to be Tevinter slaves. My IQ believes that the mages will have more protection under the Inquisition than being allowed to do more harm to their own cause. They protect themselves without the Templars, and the towers are they fortress, school and libraty? Okay, I understand. Now I not sure, Vivienne is the good choice. She probably does not allow such independence. (Only a few people likes the anarchy – I don't think, Anders' and rebel Hawke's goal was anarchy – , but it is difficult to achieve the freedom in a repressive regime without a revolution. The revolution is in most cases ends up into anarchy, and depending on the success, finally return to the old regime [but will change right or wrong direction], or the winners build a new one. The change is inevitable at all events, but the anarchy will dissipate over time.) I'll be playing a mage who wants freedom one day too, I have many different characters doing very different things. Although I admit, this one does match my own opinions. She's the most like me.
|
|
Liadan
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 1,498 Likes: 5,186
inherit
160
0
5,186
Liadan
1,498
August 2016
liadan
Bottom
http://bsn.boards.net/board/10/dragon-inquisition-quests-general-discussion
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Liadan on Aug 21, 2016 14:30:56 GMT
I prefer softened Leliana for my pro-Mage playthroughs and Cassandra for my pro-Templar/pro-Chantry playthroughs. I only chose Vivienne once in my renegate playthrough.
|
|
inherit
1104
0
538
naughtynomad
508
Aug 21, 2016 15:51:50 GMT
August 2016
naughtynomad
|
Post by naughtynomad on Aug 21, 2016 16:00:09 GMT
If you're going for pro-mage freedom, an Inspired Leliana is the best choice. The Trespasser epilogue makes it clear that no matter who is Divine, the Circle is still there but also a second faction as the College of Enchanters is established.
Leliana and Viviene as Divine both give this second faction more power.
If you're trying to cause as much instability as possible, Viviene is the best choice. At the end of Trespasser, a hardened Leliana eliminates all her enemies and has a stable reign.
I never choose Cassandra for Divine. Even if you're pro templar, letting Cassandra reform the Seekers is the better option.
|
|
inherit
1044
0
Sept 7, 2016 10:13:52 GMT
3
noname55rr
74
Aug 17, 2016 14:43:57 GMT
August 2016
noname55rr
|
Post by noname55rr on Aug 22, 2016 1:25:39 GMT
Best Divine depends really on who you have played and what choices did you make.
On first Inquisitor Ariaze Adaar I have psycho Leliana as Divine. I do not believe her lunatical version to force change on Thedas, and I never bothered to persuade her to be soft. This sort of behave didn't led her to anywhere back at Origins. Not to mention Chantry is corrupted hatred loving racist place. It was in dire need of cleaning, well in case of Divine Leliana ... in dire need of purge.
Verissa Lavellan had more templar-like style so Cassandra was made a Divine, just so she may rebuild Templar Order (with Barris being Knight-Commander) and restore with changes Circles. She was the most suitable choice for someone who was more pro-templars.
Third and last one was Evelyn Travelyan a Circle mage who saw good things at Circle along with bad things. She did NOT want Circles to be disband only changed, she also did not approve that much of Mage Rebellion since it was unforgiving slaughter. She agreed that Vivienne does make good points, and unlike Cassandra Vivienne will not fall down in machinery of politics in Chantry. So Vivienne was butchering by words Teagan for her in Trespasser as Divine.
I did saw Divine Leliana as lunatic on mine brother playtrough, but she have seem like a major failure who will be unable to do anything.
|
|
inherit
637
0
518
Mickymax69
258
August 2016
mickymax69
|
Post by Mickymax69 on Aug 23, 2016 23:25:16 GMT
They protect themselves without the Templars, and the towers are they fortress, school and libraty? Okay, I understand. Now I not sure, Vivienne is the good choice. She probably does not allow such independence. (Only a few people likes the anarchy – I don't think, Anders' and rebel Hawke's goal was anarchy – , but it is difficult to achieve the freedom in a repressive regime without a revolution. The revolution is in most cases ends up into anarchy, and depending on the success, finally return to the old regime [but will change right or wrong direction], or the winners build a new one. The change is inevitable at all events, but the anarchy will dissipate over time.) I'll be playing a mage who wants freedom one day too, I have many different characters doing very different things. Although I admit, this one does match my own opinions. She's the most like me. I'd be curious to know what you're gonna decide to do and what results you'll obtain, knowing your preferences, if you could post later about it, I 'll be interested. As I said, I choose Cassandra because I didn't know anything about the future, and wanted to romance her too, but I have to admit, I'm gonna restart a game, and certainly choose a hardener Leliana. ( I remember not choosing her cause of her romance with my Warden... I'm stupid. Therefore it's my Inky who paid the price with Cassandra focused on her duty, so it's somehow a tearing ending).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
101
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 16:01:47 GMT
I'll be playing a mage who wants freedom one day too, I have many different characters doing very different things. Although I admit, this one does match my own opinions. She's the most like me. I'd be curious to know what you're gonna decide to do and what results you'll obtain, knowing your preferences, if you could post later about it, I 'll be interested. As I said, I choose Cassandra because I didn't know anything about the future, and wanted to romance her too, but I have to admit, I'm gonna restart a game, and certainly choose a hardener Leliana. ( I remember not choosing her cause of her romance with my Warden... I'm stupid. Therefore it's my Inky who paid the price with Cassandra focused on her duty, so it's somehow a tearing ending).I just finished the playthrough and remembered that you had asked how it went. So my game was heading towards a Viv Divine and I wanted to change my mind, however it would mean repeating 40 hours of content so instead I just went with it. I headcannoned that my IQ was very friendly with Viv at first and supportive of her as Divine, but as time went on she began to see how ruthless she could be and how different their approaches were. My IQ was gentle yet Viv is a harsh ruler etc etc. So by the end she was disappointed to hear that Viv was the new Divine, but had expected it. By Trespasser she's disliking the way Vivienne is dealing with things, agreeing with Cassandra's point of view about her. Finally she decides to dissolve the Inquisition rather than serve her. That way she can continue to do good whilst maintaining a distance from Vivienne, and that sets up a future where there's tension between the two. It'll be my only world where the Divine and IQ don't see eye to eye, which, if BioWare allow it, could result in some interesting lore in DA4. So even though I'd go with Leliana if I could go back in time, I'm happy how it worked out as I now have my IQ, Leliana and Cass on one side of the line, and Divine Vivienne on the other. Should be interesting.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,882 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,882
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Sept 21, 2016 16:16:08 GMT
In the end, it really depends on the world-state you leave Thedas in to determine which Divine is "best" The only Divine I would not want to see is Princess Stabbity Leliana. Espsecially if she was "killed" by the Warden. Unpleasant implications there...
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Sept 21, 2016 16:37:20 GMT
Any candidate is fine so long as it is not Vivienne.
Of the three, Vivienne is by far the one with the largest body count and is the most ruthless with enforcing her vision. Only difference between her and Leliana (apart from goals of course) is that Leliana attacks strategically rather than just crushing the bulk of the opposition like Viv. In addition, I have the feeling Vivienne thinks crushing a problem is the same as solving it, which leads me to believe that the same old problems will crop up as soon as she's gone in addition to others.
Also I sort of feel uncomfortable with how....Tevinter-esque she makes the Circles. Putting the Templars on a very short leash, making the Circles the a powerful political power, extending that political power to the Chantry which in turn extends to power of the Circles to every province it can reach...the fact the mage Divine also likely uses the Chant for personal benefit doesn't bode well either.
It's nothing for right now, but it is something I would look out for.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Sept 21, 2016 17:06:53 GMT
Any candidate is fine so long as it is not Vivienne. Of the three, Vivienne is by far the one with the largest body count and is the most ruthless with enforcing her vision. Only difference between her and Leliana (apart from goals of course) is that Leliana attacks strategically rather than just crushing the bulk of the opposition like Viv. In addition, I have the feeling Vivienne thinks crushing a problem is the same as solving it, which leads me to believe that the same old problems will crop up as soon as she's gone in addition to others. Also I sort of feel uncomfortable with how....Tevinter-esque she makes the Circles. Putting the Templars on a very short leash, making the Circles the a powerful political power, extending that political power to the Chantry which in turn extends to power of the Circles to every province it can reach...the fact the mage Divine also likely uses the Chant for personal benefit doesn't bode well either. It's nothing for right now, but it is something I would look out for. Vivienne is a power hungry social climber, she only want the Templars and the Mages to her own personal army.
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Sept 21, 2016 17:16:17 GMT
Any candidate is fine so long as it is not Vivienne. Of the three, Vivienne is by far the one with the largest body count and is the most ruthless with enforcing her vision. Only difference between her and Leliana (apart from goals of course) is that Leliana attacks strategically rather than just crushing the bulk of the opposition like Viv. In addition, I have the feeling Vivienne thinks crushing a problem is the same as solving it, which leads me to believe that the same old problems will crop up as soon as she's gone in addition to others. Also I sort of feel uncomfortable with how....Tevinter-esque she makes the Circles. Putting the Templars on a very short leash, making the Circles the a powerful political power, extending that political power to the Chantry which in turn extends to power of the Circles to every province it can reach...the fact the mage Divine also likely uses the Chant for personal benefit doesn't bode well either. It's nothing for right now, but it is something I would look out for. Vivienne is a power hungry social climber, she only want the Templars and the Mages to her own personal army. Well I wouldn't go that far. I mean, I know Vivienne will look out for herself first before turning her concerns toward others, but once that position is secure she will try to extend her reach to others. I believe Vivienne does care for the mages in her own way, and is willing to cleave through any 'malcontents' that she believes will get in way of that. It's just that she believes 'her way' is the best way and is prone to believing that it is only the fault of the "malcontents (rebel mages)" and "misused tools (Templars)" that the Circle system failed. She's not inherently malicious, but her ruthless approach makes her sense of "what's right" a dangerous one to deal with. One that can cost lives.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Sept 21, 2016 17:37:40 GMT
Vivienne is a power hungry social climber, she only want the Templars and the Mages to her own personal army. Well I wouldn't go that far. I mean, I know Vivienne will look out for herself first before turning her concerns toward others, but once that position is secure she will try to extend her reach to others. I believe Vivienne does care for the mages in her own way, and is willing to cleave through any 'malcontents' that she believes will get in way of that. It's just that she believes 'her way' is the best way and is prone to believing that it is only the fault of the "malcontents (rebel mages)" and "misused tools (Templars)" that the Circle system failed. She's not inherently malicious, but her ruthless approach makes her sense of "what's right" a dangerous one to deal with. One that can cost lives. It's true: We can't say: Vivienne is "evil", and she show some interest for towards the people.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,882 Likes: 49,344
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,344
Iakus
20,882
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Sept 21, 2016 17:43:29 GMT
Any candidate is fine so long as it is not Vivienne. Of the three, Vivienne is by far the one with the largest body count and is the most ruthless with enforcing her vision. Only difference between her and Leliana (apart from goals of course) is that Leliana attacks strategically rather than just crushing the bulk of the opposition like Viv. In addition, I have the feeling Vivienne thinks crushing a problem is the same as solving it, which leads me to believe that the same old problems will crop up as soon as she's gone in addition to others. Also I sort of feel uncomfortable with how....Tevinter-esque she makes the Circles. Putting the Templars on a very short leash, making the Circles the a powerful political power, extending that political power to the Chantry which in turn extends to power of the Circles to every province it can reach...the fact the mage Divine also likely uses the Chant for personal benefit doesn't bode well either. It's nothing for right now, but it is something I would look out for. The only "body count" I am aware of with Vivienne are the revolts that rise up right after she is elected (at least, assuming you go with Champions of the Just) I think those can be considered self-defense. That she might make the Chantry more Tevinter-esque is certainly a concern. But otoh, she is also the first mage in a thousand years to openly wield political power. That can potentially do a lot help mages gain acceptance in Thedas.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
197
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 18:11:57 GMT
Hardened Leliana. For my Lavellans Worldstate (who's my anti-chantry but pro-Templar Worldstate). Cassandra for my Sera Romance Worldstate (Netural Worldstate; Cadash didn't care about the chantry much) Softened Leliana for my docile Mage Trevelyan Worldstate. He was kind of pro Mage, but he sided with the Templar's so.
|
|
inherit
1439
0
12,447
witchcocktor
4,032
Sept 6, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
September 2016
witchcocktor
Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by witchcocktor on Sept 21, 2016 23:42:40 GMT
I don't actually think I care who ends up in the throne. All of them have positives and negatives. I usually just let my game choices decide who takes the throne, and meddle as little as possible on deciding myself who gets to be the Divine. Though I will tell Leliana that there are better candidates than her for the throne. I like her more as a spymaster than a Divine cuz she looks sick in her spymaster outfit. He doesn't wear the robes or the hat well. BUT even so, I'm not at complete loss if she takes the throne, because she'll be hardened and kicking ass either way.
I think my preference would be Vivienne > Cassandra >> Hardened Leliana >>>>>>>> Softened Leliana
|
|
Dabrikishaw
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
Posts: 182 Likes: 204
inherit
1347
0
204
Dabrikishaw
182
Aug 29, 2016 20:21:41 GMT
August 2016
dabrikishaw
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
|
Post by Dabrikishaw on Sept 22, 2016 0:22:00 GMT
As far as the Mage-Templar war goes, the Divides are equal. Trespasser makes their endings effectively the same with the College and Circle existing no matter what.
|
|
inherit
1556
0
1,079
Duke Cameron
1,052
Sept 13, 2016 0:28:35 GMT
September 2016
animalboy
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Duke Cameron on Sept 22, 2016 1:32:18 GMT
Hardened Leliana every single time. My characters (Especially Hawke) fully support mage freedom and believe in the maker. If Leliana can grant mage freedom and open the chantry to all then i have no desire to support anyone else.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1620
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 2:49:03 GMT
All Hail Divine Stabbity and her Holy Nug! But that's because I play an elf, and the only one who understands an elf's perceptive is Spy Master Stabbity. Also, my world state sets the stage for major changes with the allied mages and Briala in power. So regardless of whether they want it or not, change will happen, Solas will make sure that happens on his own. I also always have her harden, never soften, because she's going to have a massive target on her back, and while she may be assassinated soon, she will at least have taken down some of her opponents. My Quizz realized that change may very well not happen, but at the very least she will have some revenge by unleashing the savage zombie beast upon them.
I do joke that Divine Cassandra would snap from all the political bs she has to go through. While listening to one Chantry people complain to her about some trivial nonsense, she gets up out of her throne, walks over to a window, and throws herself out of it.
|
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
24,268
themikefest
14,812
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Sept 22, 2016 12:13:42 GMT
I like Vivienne as divine. She looks better wearing that big hat.
|
|
inherit
1363
0
Dec 31, 2021 19:39:42 GMT
1,233
garrusfan1
1,826
Aug 30, 2016 16:55:35 GMT
August 2016
garrusfan1
|
Post by garrusfan1 on Sept 24, 2016 20:50:25 GMT
Leliana is the one who would make the strongest chantry and the best one. She would allow more races to play a part in it thus making it bigger and due to her reforms it would become more diverse and well liked. And vivenne isn't religous like she says she just wants that power and thinks the chantry is the best way to do that and keep order. Honestly a "good" leliana is the best. Vivenne still manages to mess things up though when she starts the competion for mages with the college or whatever it's called. Cassandra is the "safe" bet.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
1276
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 1:42:20 GMT
Hardened Leliana, since she gets the job done.
|
|