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Post by midnight tea on Dec 17, 2018 5:36:48 GMT
Steve Gaynor @fullbright
please share your most embarrassing game dev crimes. Mine: all the scripting in Gone Home is contained in 2 gigantic uScript graphs, bc I didn't know about interlinking many smaller graphs at the time. It's only 2 bc the first one started running too slow to navigate. Your turn. Allan Schumacher allanschumacher
Mine wasn't in release but I found a blocking bug in DAI conversation system. I needed a dummy line for Cullen that would NEVER ship. So for a week we had text to speech say "asdfasdf" in a key war table conversation for the very first line. David Mergele @elegrem The golden nug in Inquisition was slapped together from other pieces of existing tech as part of a DAWeek project. It went into the last patch of the game. 2) A bug in VS2012 that started showing up at the end of Inquisition meant we couldn't trust compile failures. So we added looping to be sure it was really bad code.
Same thing for intermittent testing failures because we overloaded the test farm.
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Post by phoray on Dec 17, 2018 5:49:47 GMT
compile failures....added looping to be sure...overloaded the test farm. They speak a language, it looks like english, but I do not know it.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 17, 2018 8:47:26 GMT
I wonder if they'll mention the combat freezing bug that never got fixed? Or... if they have already and I just don't speak dev so I didn't catch it.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Dec 17, 2018 9:29:44 GMT
compile failures....added looping to be sure...overloaded the test farm. They speak a language, it looks like english, but I do not know it. Game devs are Geth confirmed.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 17, 2018 10:35:15 GMT
I wonder if they'll mention the combat freezing bug that never got fixed? Or... if they have already and I just don't speak dev so I didn't catch it. I think that was one of those annoying bugs that was the result of patching out a different bug. So not so much 'game dev sin' as 'irritating reality of software development.'
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Post by arvaarad on Dec 17, 2018 13:11:27 GMT
compile failures....added looping to be sure...overloaded the test farm. They speak a language, it looks like english, but I do not know it. Let me take a stab at a translation. Edit: after some more thought, there’s an alternative translation. I’ll mark the two alternatives as A and B. Translation A: Normally when we cast spells, they’ll sputter out if we phrased some words wrong. Since Visual Studio (the thing we use to cast our spells) wasn’t working like it should, some obscure forms of mis-wording could slip through. The grammatically incorrect spells would cast, but maybe do something super weird later.Translation B: The opposite problem. Correctly-worded spells would sometimes randomly sputter out. Translation A: So we modified the spell so the questionable phrasing would repeat thousands of times in a row. That way, if something weird ended up happening, we’d definitely catch it, and we’d know we needed to fix the spell. Translation B: We cast the entire spell many times in a row, and only adjusted the grammar if it sputtered out every time. If it only sputtered out once, it could have been a fluke.Translation A or B: Part of the verification process for our spells is to have a bunch of tiny wizards cast them. The tiny wizards are themselves summoned via spells and don’t know how to do anything but cast spells. But they are much faster at spellcasting than real wizards. This is a “test farm”. However, they do have limits, and (translator note: I’m guessing this next part due to the context) the thousandfold repeats we’d added sometimes expended all their magical energy. Since the tiny wizards aren’t people, it’s difficult for them to communicate this problem, so they spout ominous prophecies instead.
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Post by jjdxb on Dec 17, 2018 16:31:42 GMT
They speak a language, it looks like english, but I do not know it. Let me take a stab at a translation. Edit: after some more thought, there’s an alternative translation. I’ll mark the two alternatives as A and B. Translation A: Normally when we cast spells, they’ll sputter out if we phrased some words wrong. Since Visual Studio (the thing we use to cast our spells) wasn’t working like it should, some obscure forms of mis-wording could slip through. The grammatically incorrect spells would cast, but maybe do something super weird later.Translation B: The opposite problem. Correctly-worded spells would sometimes randomly sputter out. Translation A: So we modified the spell so the questionable phrasing would repeat thousands of times in a row. That way, if something weird ended up happening, we’d definitely catch it, and we’d know we needed to fix the spell. Translation B: We cast the entire spell many times in a row, and only adjusted the grammar if it sputtered out every time. If it only sputtered out once, it could have been a fluke.Translation A or B: Part of the verification process for our spells is to have a bunch of tiny wizards cast them. The tiny wizards are themselves summoned via spells and don’t know how to do anything but cast spells. But they are much faster at spellcasting than real wizards. This is a “test farm”. However, they do have limits, and (translator note: I’m guessing this next part due to the context) the thousandfold repeats we’d added sometimes expended all their magical energy. Since the tiny wizards aren’t people, it’s difficult for them to communicate this problem, so they spout ominous prophecies instead.For a moment I had a brainfart, I was thinking "why the fuck these people still using VS2012?" Then I remembered DA:I came out year end 2014 and now I just feel...old
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 17, 2018 19:08:19 GMT
Translation A or B: Part of the verification process for our spells is to have a bunch of tiny wizards cast them. The tiny wizards are themselves summoned via spells and don’t know how to do anything but cast spells. But they are much faster at spellcasting than real wizards. This is a “test farm”. However, they do have limits, and (translator note: I’m guessing this next part due to the context) the thousandfold repeats we’d added sometimes expended all their magical energy. Since the tiny wizards aren’t people, it’s difficult for them to communicate this problem, so they spout ominous prophecies instead. Tiny wizards are people too, Solas!
Seriously, though, thank you for explaining what they meant by test farm. Was very confused.
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Post by arvaarad on Dec 17, 2018 20:18:01 GMT
Translation A or B: Part of the verification process for our spells is to have a bunch of tiny wizards cast them. The tiny wizards are themselves summoned via spells and don’t know how to do anything but cast spells. But they are much faster at spellcasting than real wizards. This is a “test farm”. However, they do have limits, and (translator note: I’m guessing this next part due to the context) the thousandfold repeats we’d added sometimes expended all their magical energy. Since the tiny wizards aren’t people, it’s difficult for them to communicate this problem, so they spout ominous prophecies instead. Tiny wizards are people too, Solas! Oh boy, if testing servers gained consciousness and started talking to me, I would definitely destroy them. Those things are the earthly manifestation of pure chaos. I’m pretty sure they know when it’s Friday at 5pm, because that’s when they will gleefully fail your code and force you to interpret their most mystic portents before you can solve the problem.
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 17, 2018 21:58:48 GMT
Previous Bioware games ( Baldur's Gate, KoToR, Jade Empire, Origins) allowed us to be heroic, pragmatic, selfish, crazy, stupid, cowardly, malicious, and anything in between. Yeah, and so did the Mass Effect trilogy, Dragon Age 2, and Dragon Age: Inquisition. Even if you don't want to acknowledge that...solely so you can complain about that. The first two Mass Effect games actively penalized players who wanted to roleplay with any kind of nuance, contradictions, or preferences; if you wanted the better outcome, you had to consistently build your Paragon or Renegade points. Sure, you could ask questions, but still generally only had 2 or 3 types of action to take. What made it worse was how often the "super" Renegade or Paragon actions could have been deduced with a logical assessment of information and resources at the time, without being tied to how nice or rude you were. 3 alleviated it a little by having both meters raised a little with most actions, but you were still railroaded into two extremes with the occasional neutral compromise. Such compromises often struck me as less the logical outcome of my choices, and more like punishments from the writers for not picking what they would have preferred.Not to mention all the forced, "ambient" auto-dialogue they would force on Shepard that may or may not reflect what your character would have felt (Looking at you, Citadel.... ).
Dragon Age 2 tried to have it both ways by taking ME's primary response system, but removing the necessary morality points. Silly/Snarky options provided different tome, but more often than not didn't provide any actual actions. Again, the extremities of your available responses often made Hawke come off as emotionally unbalanced. Also, the assumed auto dialogue based on your dominant tone choices didn't allow for much nuance, and might not accurately reflect the direction you were taking your Hawke. You because you had been one way so far, did not mean you intended to stay that way.
Inquisition brought back multiple responses, but to me (and many others) they usually came off as short and bland, despite whatever the emote icon indicated, and you were still more or less railroaded into being an Ideal Hero. Worse, characters in conversation would react the exact same way to different responses and tones. Worst of all, all of the games had the problem of spoken dialogue not matching the paraphrase choice. Maybe you considered it close enough to the expected intent, but more often than not I rolled my eyes at dialogue I might not have chosen, had I known what was actually going to be said.
Going back to my original point, I never personally felt I was able have my Shepard, Hawke or Inquisitor make crazy, stupid, or cowardly choices. Snarky Hawke could joke about it, but never actually follow through. "What's the point of that, your supposed to be the Hero!" you say? The point is that a good RPG should have as many avenues for me to express my characters and their stories the way I want. If you take that argument to it's logical extreme, what's the point of romances, faction reputations, class or race selection? If the Bioware devs no longer care about player choice, maybe they should honestly stop making RPGs and give their Action/Adventure games fixed protagonists. "The devs don't have the time and resources for such options!" Yet they have the time and resources for countless trash mobs, beautiful but empty open worlds, and tacked on multiplayer for single player game? I know the writers can't account for every single possible choice, yet the Bioware of old could. Maybe Sylvius the Mad had a point about pure text dialogue over voice acted?
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Post by thats1evildude on Dec 17, 2018 22:10:29 GMT
We're not going back to pure text dialogue. That might fly for an indie game like Celeste, but we've crossed the point of no return. Voice acting performances are now a crucial part of video games, and if that means sacrificing the option to act like a drooling moron or a craven coward, so be it.
It's 2018, not 1998.
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Post by arvaarad on Dec 17, 2018 22:42:56 GMT
We're not going back to pure text dialogue. That might fly for an indie game like Celeste, but we've crossed the point of no return. Voice acting performances are now a crucial part of video games, and if that means sacrificing the option to act like a drooling moron or a craven coward, so be it. It's 2018, not 1998.
Plus, we’re riiiiight on the cusp of being able to synthesize voices good enough for video games. Current state-of-the-art sounds almost 100% human, but has a fairly neutral tone. Smooth out the remaining roughness, and add some emotional inflection, and it would render the whole problem moot. Now granted, completely realistic voice synthesis brings some other, much more serious problems with it, but it does solve the voiced vs. text issue pretty handily.
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 17, 2018 22:47:31 GMT
We're not going back to pure text dialogue. That might fly for an indie game like Celeste, but we've crossed the point of no return. Voice acting performances are now a crucial part of video games, and if that means sacrificing the option to act like a drooling moron or a craven coward, so be it. It's not just about the "normie-in-over-their-head" or "funny idiot", it's about allowing us to evolve from, or *temporarily* devolve there. It's about controlling the exact wording, tone and intent of what we say and do. Also, text options generally give you more actions and story branches than voiced, since less spoken dialogue means more time and money elsewhere.
*Looks at how much I enjoyed Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, Tyranny, Tides of Numenera: Torment, and Wastelands 2, and am looking forward to The Outer Worlds...*
Well, considering how they just picked Obsidian and InExile,and are still supporting their current works, it looks like Microsoft disagrees with you .
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 17, 2018 23:01:30 GMT
Branching remains expensive either way, and even more expensive if one tries to build a continuous story across multiple chapters, or sometimes even the whole run of the franchise. It isn't just a matter of voicing protagonists. *Looks at how much I enjoyed Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, Tyranny, Tides of Numenera: Torment, and Wastelands 2, and am looking forward to The Outer Worlds...* Well, considering how they just picked Obsidian and InExile,and are still supporting their current works, it looks like Microsoft disagrees with you . If there are so many excellent games that provide what you want why demanding for ALL RPGs to be like that? Just like not all things can be done with voiced protagonists, there are things that can't be done or achieved with text, so there's clearly a place for both of them on the market. Let Bioware follow their vision for their RPGs... waitaminute, weren't you the one ranting against creators caving to pressure and compromising their artistic vision or something?
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 17, 2018 23:23:02 GMT
The first two Mass Effect games actively penalized players who wanted to roleplay with any kind of nuance, contradictions, or preferences; if you wanted the better outcome, you had to consistently build your Paragon or Renegade points. Sure, you could ask questions, but still generally only had 2 or 3 types of action to take. What made it worse was how often the "super" Renegade or Paragon actions could have been deduced with a logical assessment of information and resources at the time, without being tied to how nice or rude you were. 3 alleviated it a little by having both meters raised a little with most actions, but you were still railroaded into two extremes with the occasional neutral compromise. Such compromises often struck me as less the logical outcome of my choices, and more like punishments from the writers for not picking what they would have preferred.Not to mention all the forced, "ambient" auto-dialogue they would force on Shepard that may or may not reflect what your character would have felt (Looking at you, Citadel.... ). Dragon Age 2 tried to have it both ways by taking ME's primary response system, but removing the necessary morality points. Silly/Snarky options provided different tome, but more often than not didn't provide any actual actions. Again, the extremities of your available responses often made Hawke come off as emotionally unbalanced. Also, the assumed auto dialogue based on your dominant tone choices didn't allow for much nuance, and might not accurately reflect the direction you were taking your Hawke. You because you had been one way so far, did not mean you intended to stay that way.
Inquisition brought back multiple responses, but to me (and many others) they usually came off as short and bland, despite whatever the emote icon indicated, and you were still more or less railroaded into being an Ideal Hero. Worse, characters in conversation would react the exact same way to different responses and tones. Worst of all, all of the games had the problem of spoken dialogue not matching the paraphrase choice. Maybe you considered it close enough to the expected intent, but more often than not I rolled my eyes at dialogue I might not have chosen, had I known what was actually going to be said.
Going back to my original point, I never personally felt I was able have my Shepard, Hawke or Inquisitor make crazy, stupid, or cowardly choices. Snarky Hawke could joke about it, but never actually follow through. "What's the point of that, your supposed to be the Hero!" you say? The point is that a good RPG should have as many avenues for me to express my characters and their stories the way I want. If you take that argument to it's logical extreme, what's the point of romances, faction reputations, class or race selection? If the Bioware devs no longer care about player choice, maybe they should honestly stop making RPGs and give their Action/Adventure games fixed protagonists. "The devs don't have the time and resources for such options!" Yet they have the time and resources for countless trash mobs, beautiful but empty open worlds, and tacked on multiplayer for single player game? I know the writers can't account for every single possible choice, yet the Bioware of old could. Maybe Sylvius the Mad had a point about pure text dialogue over voice acted? All valid points. The DA2 example is a bit off to me. Cus yeah it had auto dialogue that assumed your intent based on past behavior, which was frustrating if you weren't into the idea that you should have a dominant tone to all your dialogue. But it did have the option to do some evil **** like Fenris being sold back to Denarius, or killing clan Sabrae if you felt like it/couldn't avoid it. So its wrong to say Hawke couldn't follow through on evil actions. I'd honestly put DA2 on par with DAO as far as the impact of evil roleplay opportunities, though there might be fewer of them cus its a shorter game. But Inquisition did have noticeably fewer opportunities to do that kind of thing. And I don't think it necessarily has a thing to do with voice acting. I think that the lessening amount of downright evil/stupid options is a result of the writers asserting a bit more control over the direction of the protag's development to keep them coloring within at least some lines for plot purposes. I also think this is a result of the series being a series now instead of a one off game. DAO was going to be a one off. Jade Empire is a one off. So they can let you be crazier (and you could do some dark stuff in JE from what I understand) when they didn't have to worry about accounting for the consequences beyond the scope of the current narrative.
If there are so many excellent games that provide what you want why demanding for ALL RPGs to be like that? Just like not all things can be done with voiced protagonists, there are things that can't be done or achieved with text, so there's clearly a place for both of them on the market. Let Bioware follow their vision for their RPGs... waitaminute, weren't you the one ranting against creators caving to pressure and compromising their artistic vision or something? That's not very fair, Tea. He's not talking about all RPGs, he's talking about RPGs within the same series (Dragon Age) staying consistent in their gameplay options. If DA4 does away with pause and play combat outright even though the other 3 games have had it, are people who object really just supposed to shut up and find other games instead of voicing their concern about the direction of the franchise they are already 3 installments invested in? I'd say "No." This is the same thing. The narrative is an RPG mechanic as much as combat.
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Post by thats1evildude on Dec 17, 2018 23:31:18 GMT
We're not going back to pure text dialogue. That might fly for an indie game like Celeste, but we've crossed the point of no return. Voice acting performances are now a crucial part of video games, and if that means sacrificing the option to act like a drooling moron or a craven coward, so be it. It's not just about the "normie-in-over-their-head" or "funny idiot", it's about allowing us to evolve from, or *temporarily* devolve there. It's about controlling the exact wording, tone and intent of what we say and do. Also, text options generally give you more actions and story branches than voiced, since less spoken dialogue means more time and money elsewhere.
*Looks at how much I enjoyed Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, Tyranny, Tides of Numenera: Torment, and Wastelands 2, and am looking forward to The Outer Worlds...*
As I eluded to earlier (but did not outright state), indie games get a pass. Even so, does PoE not have voice acting? I'm not a PC gamer, so I have no idea.
Also, unless you watched a different Outer Worlds trailer than I did, it has voice acting as well.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 17, 2018 23:32:31 GMT
It's not just about the "normie-in-over-their-head" or "funny idiot", it's about allowing us to evolve from, or *temporarily* devolve there. It's about controlling the exact wording, tone and intent of what we say and do. Also, text options generally give you more actions and story branches than voiced, since less spoken dialogue means more time and money elsewhere.
*Looks at how much I enjoyed Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, Tyranny, Tides of Numenera: Torment, and Wastelands 2, and am looking forward to The Outer Worlds...*
Unless you watched a different Outer Worlds trailer than I did, it has voice acting. The protag in Outer Worlds is unvoiced, which I think was his point there.
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 17, 2018 23:34:57 GMT
Branching remains expensive either way, and even more expensive if one tries to build a continuous story across multiple chapters, or sometimes even the whole run of the franchise. It isn't just a matter of voicing protagonists. *Looks at how much I enjoyed Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, Tyranny, Tides of Numenera: Torment, and Wastelands 2, and am looking forward to The Outer Worlds...* Well, considering how they just picked Obsidian and InExile,and are still supporting their current works, it looks like Microsoft disagrees with you . If there are so many excellent games that provide what you want why demanding for ALL RPGs to be like that? Just like not all things can be done with voiced protagonists, there are things that can't be done or achieved with text, so there's clearly a place for both of them on the market. Let Bioware follow their vision for their RPGs... waitaminute, weren't you the one ranting against creators caving to pressure and compromising their artistic vision or something? Fair enough. Though I don't *demand* all RPGs homoginize, I guess that in my old age i miss the Bioware of old. CD Projetk Red implies cinematic storytelling, and I enjoy how they still offer multiple options. Don't care for Cyperpunk 2077 being a and FPS, but that's a gameplay issue and not a roleplaying one.
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 17, 2018 23:37:15 GMT
It's not just about the "normie-in-over-their-head" or "funny idiot", it's about allowing us to evolve from, or *temporarily* devolve there. It's about controlling the exact wording, tone and intent of what we say and do. Also, text options generally give you more actions and story branches than voiced, since less spoken dialogue means more time and money elsewhere.
*Looks at how much I enjoyed Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, Tyranny, Tides of Numenera: Torment, and Wastelands 2, and am looking forward to The Outer Worlds...*
As I eluded to earlier (but did not outright state), indie games get a pass. Even so, does PoE not have voice acting? I'm not a PC gamer, so I have no idea.
Also, unless you watched a different Outer Worlds trailer than I did, it has voice acting as well.
The protagonists don't, and thus we have extra dialogue options based on our stats (or lack of, based on the Dumb option) as well as our history.
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Post by thats1evildude on Dec 17, 2018 23:41:16 GMT
Unless you watched a different Outer Worlds trailer than I did, it has voice acting. The protag in Outer Worlds is unvoiced, which I think was his point there. Pfffffft, it's hardly full text dialogue, then. Goddamn kids today. When you have to control a mute PC and every other character's voice is conveyed via blue or black text boxes, then speak to me of the superiority of all-text dialogue RPGs. I was playing Dragon Warrior on the NES when you were suckling at yer mother's teats.
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Post by Walter Black on Dec 17, 2018 23:44:25 GMT
The protag in Outer Worlds is unvoiced, which I think was his point there. Pfffffft, it's hardly full text dialogue, then. Goddamn kids today. When you have to roleplay a mute and every other character's voice is conveyed via blue text boxes, then speak to me of how things were so much purer in the old days. I was playing Dragon Warrior on the NES when you were suckling at yer mother's teats. "Roleplay a mute"? Is imagining your PC's voice such a burden?
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 17, 2018 23:51:58 GMT
That's not very fair, Tea. He's not talking about all RPGs, he's talking about RPGs within the same series (Dragon Age) staying consistent in their gameplay options. If DA4 does away with pause and play combat outright even though the other 3 games have had it, are people who object really just supposed to shut up and find other games instead of voicing their concern about the direction of the franchise they are already 3 installments invested in? Um... no, he's not? There are mentions of Mass Effect, of Bioware's older games and - of course - a whole slew of non-Bioware games brought as an example to build a case against a voiced protagonist and/or what is perceived as a limited set of choices in general. Also - why has combat entered the discussion...? I mean, you could make a case about the combat in the broadest sense I guess, but can you really make it about the voiced protagonist, when it existed only for one game in DA series... as compared to 2 with voiced ones and most other games Bioware released for close to a decade now featuring voiced protags (if extending this concern on the studio as a whole)? Nevermind that we simply don't have an issue you describe with Dragon Age - there are only 3 games in the series so far and neither of them is much like the previous ones. Clearly (aside from just natural evolution of the medium) it's a franchise eager to experiment with its own format and its narrative theme of the subjectivity of experience at least sets a foundation for suspension of disbelief when facing differences in gameplay.
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 17, 2018 23:53:09 GMT
We're not going back to pure text dialogue. That might fly for an indie game like Celeste, but we've crossed the point of no return. Voice acting performances are now a crucial part of video games, and if that means sacrificing the option to act like a drooling moron or a craven coward, so be it. It's not just about the "normie-in-over-their-head" or "funny idiot", it's about allowing us to evolve from, or *temporarily* devolve there. It's about controlling the exact wording, tone and intent of what we say and do. Also, text options generally give you more actions and story branches than voiced, since less spoken dialogue means more time and money elsewhere.
*Looks at how much I enjoyed Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2, Tyranny, Tides of Numenera: Torment, and Wastelands 2, and am looking forward to The Outer Worlds...*
Well, considering how they just picked Obsidian and InExile,and are still supporting their current works, it looks like Microsoft disagrees with you . Didn't Pillars of Eternity 2 bomb though? Which is why Obsidian needed to get bought out by Microsoft or they were going under. Obsidian has been struggling for money for years now, it's not really a good example of those games being financially viable, even if you do like them. Edit: Also Microsoft aren't supporting their works - The Outer Worlds was a contract with another publisher they were doing before being bought out, they are legally required to finish it. It doesn't mean Microsoft will do the same kind of games with Obsidian going forward.
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Post by thats1evildude on Dec 17, 2018 23:56:58 GMT
Didn't Pillars of Eternity 2 bomb though?
Apparently so. That's unfortunate. <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 3.0600000000000023px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_81611343" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="3.0600000000000023"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 3.06px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_36848499" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="3.0600000000000023"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 3.06px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 79px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_59619013" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="3.0600000000000023"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 3.06px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 79px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_37582583" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="3.0600000000000023"></iframe> www.onlysp.com/pillars-of-eternity-ii-sales-below-expectations/
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 17, 2018 23:59:01 GMT
Branching remains expensive either way, and even more expensive if one tries to build a continuous story across multiple chapters, or sometimes even the whole run of the franchise. It isn't just a matter of voicing protagonists. If there are so many excellent games that provide what you want why demanding for ALL RPGs to be like that? Just like not all things can be done with voiced protagonists, there are things that can't be done or achieved with text, so there's clearly a place for both of them on the market. Let Bioware follow their vision for their RPGs... waitaminute, weren't you the one ranting against creators caving to pressure and compromising their artistic vision or something? Fair enough. Though I don't *demand* all RPGs homoginize, I guess that in my old age i miss the Bioware of old. CD Projetk Red implies cinematic storytelling, and I enjoy how they still offer multiple options. Don't care for Cyperpunk 2077 being a and FPS, but that's a gameplay issue and not a roleplaying one. CDPR and Bioware simply offer different experiences (including different experiences across different franchises) that are also dependent on the story they're telling and the way they want to tell it - and while I understand the wish for more games of the type we personally like to exist (esp. given that games the like Bioware or CDPR produce are expensive and rare), I do enjoy the fact that they are still different Just like I like that Elder Scrolls is still different from the abovementioned titles. I personally play them for at least somewhat different reasons after all, to scratch different itches. Of course, I'm also glad that the indie market has grown enough for the more old-school type of RPG to find its niche and loyal audience too.
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