The Old Guard (Ye Olde Cullen Thread v4.0 + gen discussion)

Well tricking Hawke to be accomplice at domestic terrorism and blowing people up is what I saw as betrayal from him.

It'd be just an action if he done it by himself. The betrayal happens because he asked Hawke for help not to blow up the Chantry, but to help him separated himself from Justice. Hawke helped him (if he did) because of that. The fact that your Hawke is comfortable with what Anders did doesn't mean every Hawke are, and if they didn't want the chantry to be blown up, they helped Anders doing it under a lie. So it is a betrayal of Hawke's trust in him.

Again, it's fine fine if you don't see it as a betrayal, but it seems that your opinion is on your stance on the mage-Templar conflict, Kirkwall, Elthina, and how far your character is willing to go. Other players might not necessarily feel the same, regardless if they're pro mage or pro Templar or neutral.

As I see it, he could not do anything else.
He wanted to be sure that his plan will succeed.
He don't wanted that Hawke blame him/herself.

Finally, he regretted that he didn't tell to him his plan. 

Yes, I can imagine, that people, as you as well, feel betrayed. However I'm able to understand his reasons.
And Hawke can refuse the help, can betray him, and kill him. This is enough tool if Hawke want revenge.

catalina : But it's not just about neutrality. A pro-mage character might be against Anders' actions as well. There's a range between moderate to extreme in every faction, based on your views and opinion. Not every person that support the mages (or any other faction) share the exact same ideas and values, and that goes for their view on Anders' action as well.

Though this is beside the point. We're not debating which opinion on the situation of Kirkwall is right, but the fact that Hawke helped Anders in blowing the chantry under the pretense he was helping the latter with is situation with Justice.
No matter if right or wrong, we and our Hawkes all have different opinion and values on the situation in Kirkwall. So if a player or his/her Hawke didn't want the chantry to be destroyed (and This is true for some pro-mages as well, as I said) the fact that we helped Anders to blow up the chantry, because he asked us to help him with his situation with Justice, is not only a lie but a betrayal and well. It's only a lie if Hawke agreed with Anders' views and actions, or if that Hawke didn't help Anders.

But Hawke doesn't help Anders for his plans about the mage-Templar conflict. He helps him to separate himself from Justice. That was what Anders told Hawke. The fact that he said his plan wasn't going to be peaceful doesn't matter: it's not relevant to the choice of helping Anders because the choice was about helping him with Justice, not his plan on the conflict. If you metagame you can refuse to involve yourself in the plan for that reason, but if you don't metagame, and you're role playing Hawke wants to help him separate from Justice, it's natural to pick that choice. Thins lead to the betrayal.

I disagree on the pro Templar thing, because Hawke can be friend with Anders. And again you're assuming all pro templars would be fine with what Meredifh is doing. They might be against it, as some templars were in Kirkwall, but disagree on the blowing up.

I'm having solavellan feels tonight for some reason It's all coming back... maybe it's this really super sad playlist I have playing in the background >.>

I will confess to you guys: I wish I'd never downloaded that mod. I wonder if other solavellan players wish they'd never romanced Solas even, erm, "legally" LOL It hurts. It really hurts. That's the power of storytelling, I guess? The only time I was ever affected like this by a game was the first time I finished ME3. I broke down into sobs. (I didn't get the breath. Shepard just died. And I had only known him for this one game, too; hadn't played 1 or 2. Still, I wept like you wouldn't believe.)

There have bee many moments in the past year or so when i've brushed actual tears aside just from thinking about Solas and my poor young Alin Lavellan.

Yes!

And yes! My issue with Anders had nothing to do with pro-mage/templar but with his deliberate deception. And if I recall correctly, this first run was pro-mage but I was trying to ride the middle line (to no avail) and avoid a major conflict. At any rate, I do see where Catilina is coming from. It's just not in line with that particular Hawke's view. 

I am very glad that it was my first play. The shock value was totally worth it! 

I hope everyone likes whatever they reveal today! 

The new image background for the ME website freaks the hell out of me. I can't figure out what's going on with Ryder's helmet, and it looks like a gross brain monster lives inside the glass, like Kane just after facehugger attack in original Alien. :shudder: The physics on the reflections is just weird and creepy. 


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