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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2017 5:06:01 GMT
Sounds similar to ME1 where we had a lot of side quests that seemingly went nowhere. And then a lot of those missions had some kind of impact in future games. Could happen here. I'm not sure why attempted murder is such a monstrous thing for you. Shepard can and did kill anyone he wanted and was legally able to do so. You could even tell someone that you could legally murder them if you wanted to. Just because this turian didn't have the legal force behind him doesn't make him particularly worse than any Spectre ever. On that topic legal sanction to kill makes all the difference.
Kinda weird you are arguing otherwise.
Well, no, it really doesn't. Morally speaking, there's no difference whether or not it's legal. Shepard or any Spectre could basically get away with murder and then claim it was to protect people. That's what I was getting at with my Shepard example.
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Post by Archangel on Mar 29, 2017 5:09:01 GMT
Which is kind of what I'm getting at. Tann wasn't wrong that the situation was FUBAR. But by coming down hard on the people who didn't toe the line, he made the situation worse and caused a massive part of the Nexus' people to leave, creating more problems. So, finding new solutions than believing you can control human nature is the better solution. And how does one "find new solutions" for people insisting on violating necessary population control, and thus endangering both their newborn kids and everyone else on the ark? The protestor story was just retarded...like so many of the other Binary choices forced on you. The obvious solution is to talk to them and empathize with them and explain the progress being made and ask them to wait a little longer. Which realistically would have almost certainly worked.
But nope...we are given the choice...
Roll over (which you know can lead to more trouble) Crack their heads (what could possibly go wrong?)
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 29, 2017 6:12:45 GMT
You do because a person who tries to control who and what gets to breed is going to die or be overthrown quickly and with good reason.
People for SOME CRAZY REASON don't take the idea of coming for their kids lightly.
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Post by Archangel on Mar 29, 2017 6:20:20 GMT
On that topic legal sanction to kill makes all the difference.
Kinda weird you are arguing otherwise.
Well, no, it really doesn't. Morally speaking, there's no difference whether or not it's legal. Shepard or any Spectre could basically get away with murder and then claim it was to protect people. That's what I was getting at with my Shepard example. Considering we're talking about Attempted murder and the legal implications of it.
Yes, legal sanction makes all the difference in the world.
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Archangel
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Post by Archangel on Mar 29, 2017 6:23:04 GMT
You do because a person who tries to control who and what gets to breed is going to die or be overthrown quickly and with good reason. People for SOME CRAZY REASON don't take the idea of coming for their kids lightly. It's all about the good feels and virtue signaling...amirite?
Screw everyone else who has to pay your way or do the horrid crime of telling you "NO".
It's pretty obvious you are very young and likely still living at home and have no concept of being taxed to death to pay for other people's poor decisions.
But seeing your replies here, it's obvious you are Bioware's target demographic.
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 29, 2017 6:25:33 GMT
You do because a person who tries to control who and what gets to breed is going to die or be overthrown quickly and with good reason. People for SOME CRAZY REASON don't take the idea of coming for their kids lightly. It's all about the good feels and virtue signaling...amirite? Screw everyone else who has to pay your way or do the horrid crime of telling you "NO". It's pretty obvious you are very young and likely still living at home and have no concept of being taxed to death to pay for other people's poor decisions.
But seeing your replies here, it's obvious you are Bioware's target demographic.
I'm 35, married, an author, and I pay for the upkeep of my sister-in-law, her husband, and their four children. I'm not going to make snap judgements about you so I'll just ask, do you know what it's like to be responsible for the life of other human beings? Both good and bad? Because it's the most worthwhile thing a person can do. It's arguably the purpose of life. People who don't help don't earn my scorn but they don't get any props from me either.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 29, 2017 6:34:01 GMT
Well, no, it really doesn't. Morally speaking, there's no difference whether or not it's legal. Shepard or any Spectre could basically get away with murder and then claim it was to protect people. That's what I was getting at with my Shepard example. Considering we're talking about Attempted murder and the legal implications of it.
Yes, legal sanction makes all the difference in the world.
Yes, had to remind myself of the thread title. He's a criminal, something not in dispute. Sometimes I get into the argument without paying attention to all the detail. Anyway, yeah, I've actually argued that someone who could attempt to murder a friend is probably not trustworthy overall. Even if he's doing this for "good" reasons he's still capable of killing someone he considers to be a friend. Of course, I wonder about Ryder's participation in a couple of assassinations and an outright murder by Drack. Does Ryder have the authority to make those decisions? Or is Andromeda a frontier where the rules are loose outside of the Nexus? (One assassination was done by Nexus authorities, of course.) If this guy is a criminal doesn't it equally make Ryder, Drack and potentially Reyes the same? I guess what I'm looking at here is consistency. Hard to take the hard line for one person but let others get a pass. There are no Spectres in Andromeda and their authority would be decidedly lacking in any case.
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Post by ralph2449 on Mar 29, 2017 6:37:18 GMT
And how does one "find new solutions" for people insisting on violating necessary population control, and thus endangering both their newborn kids and everyone else on the ark? The protestor story was just retarded...like so many of the other Binary choices forced on you. The obvious solution is to talk to them and empathize with them and explain the progress being made and ask them to wait a little longer. Which realistically would have almost certainly worked.
But nope...we are given the choice...
Roll over (which you know can lead to more trouble) Crack their heads (what could possibly go wrong?)
Have you been to earth? Emotional idiots like those exist everywhere, it is way easier to blame others than to admit you were wrong, they chose to come to the initiative and they should have been ready to face the consequences alas they dont want to admit that so they focus their anger on the people who dont support their idiocy. Tbh it isnt really as realistic since if you are going to go to another galaxy the screening procedures will have to be heavy, you cant allow inflexible, easily agitated people in, you require smart, calm under pressure people that wont fall to primal barbaric behaviors like letting their fear and worries control them, which is what led to the whole uprising. You would need to reinforce the idea that even the entire initiative could die if something goes wrong just so people will be mentally prepared for that result in case everything goes wrong, because many things could go wrong in such an expedition. Instead we find idiots all over andromeda who get violent and angry when things dont go like they want to.
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 29, 2017 6:38:54 GMT
To be fair, I think the Initiative was mostly filled with people who were psychologically well-equipped for the trip.
It's just it's been a spectacularly crap year.
In the end, my Ryder actually believed it was a bad decision to release people from the cryopods but he did it anyway. Getting people on his side is more important in the long run than rationing, which he can blame on other people anyway.
Besides, he's eventually going to replace Tann.
Bwhahahahaa.
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Archangel
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Post by Archangel on Mar 29, 2017 6:54:43 GMT
It's all about the good feels and virtue signaling...amirite? Screw everyone else who has to pay your way or do the horrid crime of telling you "NO". It's pretty obvious you are very young and likely still living at home and have no concept of being taxed to death to pay for other people's poor decisions.
But seeing your replies here, it's obvious you are Bioware's target demographic.
I'm 35, married, an author, and I pay for the upkeep of my sister-in-law, her husband, and their four children. I'm not going to make snap judgements about you so I'll just ask, do you know what it's like to be responsible for the life of other human beings? Both good and bad? Because it's the most worthwhile thing a person can do. It's arguably the purpose of life. People who don't help don't earn my scorn but they don't get any props from me either. You're free to sacrifice and support anyone you want but don't bother trying to use your sob story and "feels" on me.
But screw you if you tell me I need to sacrifice and support the people you want me to support. But that's the SJW mindset, no one is responsible for anything and society should be happy to pay for their poor decisions.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Margaret Thatcher
Also half the internet claims to be writers...I see you link to worpress and not a real publisher.
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Post by amleth on Mar 29, 2017 10:12:23 GMT
Let's face it, this game is just full of poorly thought out trash, from this quest, to the one where attempted murder isn't a thing, to some of the idiotic dialogue, like the angaran we have many pronouns for genders one. I bought this game for the lulz, but there's really nothing but tedium and stupidity. Sounds similar to ME1 where we had a lot of side quests that seemingly went nowhere. And then a lot of those missions had some kind of impact in future games. Could happen here. I'm not sure why attempted murder is such a monstrous thing for you. Shepard can and did kill anyone he wanted and was legally able to do so. You could even tell someone that you could legally murder them if you wanted to. Just because this turian didn't have the legal force behind him doesn't make him particularly worse than any Spectre ever. Shepherd's a spectre, someone given pretty much unlimited jurisdiction to act as judge, jury and executioner. Whether or not that is morally right is debatable, but it works in the context of a video game. This turian on the other hand is a civilian who does not have that legal right. Now today, as a lawyer I can tell you that if you were to shoot at someone like that, depending on jurisdictions you'd probably get between 20 years and life. Also this is as much a case of sloppy writing that refuses to consider alternative outcomes as it is a legal question
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Post by laxian on Mar 29, 2017 11:26:41 GMT
You don't need a Social Justice Warrior attitude to believe you can have kids when you want. Take a moment to also note that it's now her responsibility to feed, care, and look after the tyke. 18+ years of working your ass off to raise a child is its own reward...and punishment. That doesn't apply here - at least NOT YET (!) Why? Because her having that kid (and encouraging/helping others to get pregnant, too despite the temporary sterility meds the A.I. gave people) endangers people (kids need a lot of damned care and any kid is an extra mouth to feed - they went to fucking half-rations on the damned Nexus (and the people there were/are still better off than most Exiles IMHO)! Not giving a child enough food can stump growth, damage health (long term, not just for a short while) and even lead to death (at least sooner than an adult would die)) etc. So what she did is irresponsible at best - but I'd say it's criminally negligent and it endangers the A.I. as a whole (it's reckless endangerment and/or conduct unbecoming if you see her as an official (officer) of the A.I. and treat her as such!) So nope, having her take care of the child isn't "punishment enough" (it's what she fucking wanted, so it's NOT A PUNISHMENT AT ALL!) greetings LAX ps: That's as much a punishment as sending a pedophile to do community service in a child-care-center
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Post by laxian on Mar 29, 2017 11:45:33 GMT
The protestor story was just retarded...like so many of the other Binary choices forced on you. The obvious solution is to talk to them and empathize with them and explain the progress being made and ask them to wait a little longer. Which realistically would have almost certainly worked.
But nope...we are given the choice...
Roll over (which you know can lead to more trouble) Crack their heads (what could possibly go wrong?)
Have you been to earth? Emotional idiots like those exist everywhere, it is way easier to blame others than to admit you were wrong, they chose to come to the initiative and they should have been ready to face the consequences alas they dont want to admit that so they focus their anger on the people who dont support their idiocy. Tbh it isnt really as realistic since if you are going to go to another galaxy the screening procedures will have to be heavy, you cant allow inflexible, easily agitated people in, you require smart, calm under pressure people that wont fall to primal barbaric behaviors like letting their fear and worries control them, which is what led to the whole uprising. You would need to reinforce the idea that even the entire initiative could die if something goes wrong just so people will be mentally prepared for that result in case everything goes wrong, because many things could go wrong in such an expedition. Instead we find idiots all over andromeda who get violent and angry when things dont go like they want to. Indeed, seems like they took the scum of the "Earth" (well: Milkyway!) to Andromeda instead of carefully vetting people (with billions of people for all the races (except the still missing Quarians and Drell) there should easily be twenty-thousand people who fit the bill (calm in stressfull situations, aware that dying is a real possibility and not prone to rioting - among other criteria like "has a usefull job" (like say a farmer or a soldier or a scientist is usefull, a politician or an artist not so much!), is genetic disease free (with limited people you would want to weed out genetic diseases as much as possible...you need healthy stock for procreation in the future! After civilization has been established and food etc. are abudant enough that raising kids isn't endangering everybody!), healthy (you wouldn't take terminally ill people for example!) etc.) instead of taking whoever shows up to come along -.-) Kind of makes me want to slap the A.I. leadership (including Tann and especially Addison )...and not only for that, I still say that their equipment is the worst stuff they could find (unarmed Nomad? Check! Unarmed Tempest? Check! Shitty helmet with exposed glass that will break if you fall flat on your face? Check! Bad weapons (they took damned civilian/police weapons to Andromeda instead of stuff for mercenaries, private security companies and military stuff...sure you gain blue-prints but they kind of look like you don't get them from the A.I. but from peoples private stockpiles (!))? Check!)...without S.A.M. we'd be totally screwed! greetings LAX
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Post by Iakus on Mar 29, 2017 13:14:34 GMT
I'm 35, married, an author, and I pay for the upkeep of my sister-in-law, her husband, and their four children. I'm not going to make snap judgements about you so I'll just ask, do you know what it's like to be responsible for the life of other human beings? Both good and bad? Because it's the most worthwhile thing a person can do. It's arguably the purpose of life. People who don't help don't earn my scorn but they don't get any props from me either. You're free to sacrifice and support anyone you want but don't bother trying to use your sob story and "feels" on me.
But screw you if you tell me I need to sacrifice and support the people you want me to support. But that's the SJW mindset, no one is responsible for anything and society should be happy to pay for their poor decisions.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Margaret Thatcher
This isn't even about "support" or "SJW mindset" This is about freaking survival. The Nexus can support X number of people for Y amount of time before people start starving. Rationing is already in place. This is specifically why everyone isn't simple popped out of cryo. So if someone (or many someones) decided "Eff the rules" and decides to have a kid, that is another mouth to feed. Manpower taken away from other duties are put towards child care. That adds to the equation, stretches resources even further, and reduces the amount of time before starvation takes place. The quarians knew all this, and practiced strict population controls to ensure they didn't outgrow their life support capabilities. Space is very unforgiving.
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 29, 2017 20:06:02 GMT
On my end, being all harsh on that lady seems ridiculous because MINUTES LATER (gametime) Gil is talking about how "Jill" is getting everyone ready to have babies. There's apparently been a miscommunication between departments. Especially as Jill wants hundreds of children to be born to the point of pressuring her gay bestie to have a child with her.
JILL seems to be the person i need to talk to.
Also, bluntly, any resource issues will be solved the moment trade with the Angara opens up.
Not to mention the Krogan and Outcasts.
The big thing about "space is unforgiving" is that once the EoS colony is de-radiationed, it's a far far FAR less severe issue.
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Post by kastrenzo on Mar 29, 2017 22:18:01 GMT
I like how simple expression of values or opinions in a fictional story, exposes people for the ranting and raving shitheads they really are while they fight.
This thread didn't get derailed, it derailed and fell off a bridge into a lava pit
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 30, 2017 1:02:51 GMT
I like how simple expression of values or opinions in a fictional story, exposes people for the ranting and raving shitheads they really are while they fight. This thread didn't get derailed, it derailed and fell off a bridge into a lava pit Well, sure, because it's easier to use meaningless alt-right jabs against people than have the uncomfortable conversation. Not saying everyone has to agree but the slurs are pointless.
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Post by kastrenzo on Mar 30, 2017 1:05:12 GMT
I like how simple expression of values or opinions in a fictional story, exposes people for the ranting and raving shitheads they really are while they fight. This thread didn't get derailed, it derailed and fell off a bridge into a lava pit Well, sure, because it's easier to use meaningless alt-right jabs against people than have the uncomfortable conversation. Not saying everyone has to agree but the slurs are pointless. Why is it that when someone uses strong language, that they're automatically assumed to be an alt-right trump supporter? couldn't be farther from the truth. All I'm saying is this conversation / thread is fucking ridiculous.
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Archangel
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Post by Archangel on Mar 30, 2017 2:19:21 GMT
Well, sure, because it's easier to use meaningless alt-right jabs against people than have the uncomfortable conversation. Not saying everyone has to agree but the slurs are pointless. Why is it that when someone uses strong language, that they're automatically assumed to be an alt-right trump supporter? couldn't be farther from the truth. All I'm saying is this conversation / thread is fucking ridiculous. Everyone who disagrees with the loony left is a racist / sexist alt-right...whatever the insult of the week is. It's funny because they try to pretend to be the rational ones. Also...
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 30, 2017 2:40:05 GMT
Actually, I just assumed archangel was a libertarian.
Albeit, over on the No Mutants Allowed forums, there was literally a Neo-Nazi poster for a year that people assumed was using ironic racism. They only banned him when it turned out, no, he was actually just a Nazi.
Egg on the mods face there.
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Post by kastrenzo on Mar 30, 2017 2:42:19 GMT
Nazi and Racist don't even mean what they used to mean.
Same as Liberal and Leftist, etc.
they're just insults used to try to claim some kind of self imposed moral superiority,
anyway, I'm going to bounce from this thread before the bans come.
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Biotic Booty
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 30, 2017 6:47:26 GMT
Well, sure, because it's easier to use meaningless alt-right jabs against people than have the uncomfortable conversation. Not saying everyone has to agree but the slurs are pointless. Why is it that when someone uses strong language, that they're automatically assumed to be an alt-right trump supporter? couldn't be farther from the truth. All I'm saying is this conversation / thread is fucking ridiculous. "SJW" is specifically an alt-right term. The term predates anything to do with Trump. If you don't want to be lumped in with a group then stop using the term and simply state your arguments.
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Archangel
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had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Archangel
had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Archangel on Mar 30, 2017 7:28:05 GMT
Why is it that when someone uses strong language, that they're automatically assumed to be an alt-right trump supporter? couldn't be farther from the truth. All I'm saying is this conversation / thread is fucking ridiculous. "SJW" is specifically an alt-right term. The term predates anything to do with Trump. If you don't want to be lumped in with a group then stop using the term and simply state your arguments. LOL, no it isn't an "alt-right" term.
But it is cute how you try to redefine things to suit your agenda...much like an SJW in fact.
You can't actually argue against what the term means so you just try to connect it with a group SJWs made up and then dismiss it.
SJW is easily defined as those latching on to every social issue (usually imagined) and crusade against it....they believe there are 57 genders....white males are the root of all evil....women and minorities are hopelessly oppressed....all men are barely contained rapists.
whereas alt-right is defined as "anyone who disagrees with or embarrasses an SJW".
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Post by CrutchCricket on Mar 30, 2017 16:12:19 GMT
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Post by yokyok on Mar 30, 2017 20:15:33 GMT
It was pretty late, and was tired when I played that mission and understood something different from it. That she accidentally got pregnant somehow. So, I thought they could at least make a compromise and not terminate the pregnancy. That would've looked pretty bad considering the baby was the first to be born in Andromeda. But the next day I found out she did it deliberately. I mean, what's wrong with this woman. They barely got in Andromeda and the first thing she does is reproduce. The whole Initiative went downhill since they arrived. Priorities, dam'it. I'm sure she thought she was important enough to get a free pass. What a selfish b***h.
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