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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 21:02:12 GMT
There's actually a lot of places in this game where you are rendered arbitrarily powerless for no particular reason. Like I can apparently bust guys out of Sloan Kelly's prison, can steal her drug formula, can murder copious numbers of her guards with no hitch, and can trash talk her to her face, but I can't stop 2 of her goons from beating a guy in the street because I might get thrown out of the port? Or I can trash talk Sloan herself, Kaetus, and miscellaneous other high-ups but I just have to stand there like an idiot while a couple of random looters call me a bitch? I don't actually have an issue with the PC being powerless sometimes. It can make for good story-telling. But to be forcibly rendered moot or gonadless in the face of random nobodies feels like some Bioware dev ironically stroking their own power trip by checking the player's ego. I absolutely hated that scene with the looters outside that club in the slums. 2 stupid little twats robbing some dead body pretty much insult me to my face and SAM basically cucks me out of the whole confrontation. I've killed Kett in their hundreds, sarcastically bowed to Sloane Kelly mocking her for being a tyrant and basically told Drak to his face that I did what I had to do in saving the Salarians over his lads resulting in him telling me to get out of his face (a scene which should have ended up like Virmire where I could have put a slug through his thick fucking skull) but oh no those two looters, don't want to antagonise them ooooh no.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 31, 2017 2:48:36 GMT
"SJW" is specifically an alt-right term. The term predates anything to do with Trump. If you don't want to be lumped in with a group then stop using the term and simply state your arguments. LOL, no it isn't an "alt-right" term.
But it is cute how you try to redefine things to suit your agenda...much like an SJW in fact.
You can't actually argue against what the term means so you just try to connect it with a group SJWs made up and then dismiss it.
SJW is easily defined as those latching on to every social issue (usually imagined) and crusade against it....they believe there are 57 genders....white males are the root of all evil....women and minorities are hopelessly oppressed....all men are barely contained rapists.
whereas alt-right is defined as "anyone who disagrees with or embarrasses an SJW".
Well, that's not me. I don't latch on to every issue. I don't know anything about 57 genders, I am a white male and don't think I'm even...blah, basically every item on your list isn't something I'm a believer in. Good try for you though.
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Post by laxian on Mar 31, 2017 13:00:27 GMT
It was pretty late, and was tired when I played that mission and understood something different from it. That she accidentally got pregnant somehow. So, I thought they could at least make a compromise and not terminate the pregnancy. That would've looked pretty bad considering the baby was the first to be born in Andromeda. But the next day I found out she did it deliberately. I mean, what's wrong with this woman. They barely got in Andromeda and the first thing she does is reproduce. The whole Initiative went downhill since they arrived. Priorities, dam'it. I'm sure she thought she was important enough to get a free pass. What a selfish b***h. No no no - she actually took COUNTER MEDS that neutralized the meds (which she stole, along with those sattelites, the shuttle she was using and food/water etc.) in her system that made her (and all other A.I. folks!) temporarily sterile (which was put in place to make people only have babies once there's enough food, shelter etc.!) - not only that: She helped others do the same (she just did it first, that's why those others aren't as far along in their pregnancies as she is!) and she (and the others) did so at a time where resources were already at a breaking point (there was an uprising and a lot of stuff was stolen etc. and people on the Nexus, while still probably better of than the exiles, were almost starving etc.!)...that's why she's a criminal IMHO! greetings LAX
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Post by mrtijger on Mar 31, 2017 13:03:19 GMT
You don't need a Social Justice Warrior attitude to believe you can have kids when you want. Take a moment to also note that it's now her responsibility to feed, care, and look after the tyke. 18+ years of working your ass off to raise a child is its own reward...and punishment. It's an SJW attitude because they say have as many kids you want when you want. That means people are having kids they can't support or take care of. So they turn to the state to pay for their kids....because....OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!! And if you are against the state paying for these kids you are a heartless monster. And even though certain people hate to admit it, some people crank out more kids to get more state money. So it's an SJW attitude because it prioritizes feeling good and noble in the moment of the real practicalities of existence. You need a life. And possibly a brain transplant.
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Post by valkyriesr2 on Mar 31, 2017 13:53:43 GMT
While a judicial system, punishment and all that is a massive disucssion in its own right, I think it's important to keep in mind that the Andromeda Iniative is streched thin when they arrived. They're low on resources, and perhaps more importantly, the population is extremely limited compared to what it was in the Milky Way. Extinction is a real threat. You cannot just jail people forever if you want to survive. Lesser punishments than what would be normally dished out is... Something they just cannot avoid.
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 31, 2017 20:43:47 GMT
I do think it's notable that there's really not enough food, water, or shelter for everyone already awake let alone the new group which just arrive.
HOWEVER -
That turns around when you have all the water on the Ice World, trade with the Angara, and the fact you can keep a reasonably good chunk of the excess weight on Esos.
Hell, a single outpost means the difference between a single mouth to feed being an annoyance and someone going hungry.
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Post by yokyok on Mar 31, 2017 23:35:21 GMT
It was pretty late, and was tired when I played that mission and understood something different from it. That she accidentally got pregnant somehow. So, I thought they could at least make a compromise and not terminate the pregnancy. That would've looked pretty bad considering the baby was the first to be born in Andromeda. But the next day I found out she did it deliberately. I mean, what's wrong with this woman. They barely got in Andromeda and the first thing she does is reproduce. The whole Initiative went downhill since they arrived. Priorities, dam'it. I'm sure she thought she was important enough to get a free pass. What a selfish b***h. No no no - she actually took COUNTER MEDS that neutralized the meds (which she stole, along with those sattelites, the shuttle she was using and food/water etc.) in her system that made her (and all other A.I. folks!) temporarily sterile (which was put in place to make people only have babies once there's enough food, shelter etc.!) - not only that: She helped others do the same (she just did it first, that's why those others aren't as far along in their pregnancies as she is!) and she (and the others) did so at a time where resources were already at a breaking point (there was an uprising and a lot of stuff was stolen etc. and people on the Nexus, while still probably better of than the exiles, were almost starving etc.!)...that's why she's a criminal IMHO! greetings LAX One has to wonder how the selection process went for the initiative. What sort of people did they unfreeze first if there were so many and went nuts so easily. It's a wonder the Nexus didn't crash and burn by the time you arrived. The leadership is inept and can't function properly under pressure if they're so prone to panic. You'd think they'd be ready for things not to go as excepted after a 600 years long travel. It's not like you cross the street and have the store close as you're about to enter it. I really enjoyed the game, but I felt it deprived me of many options when it came to decisions. I either had to be ok with it, or totally ok with it. And all I could do is judge, harshly, from behind the screen.
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Post by indrexu on Apr 1, 2017 0:34:55 GMT
One has to wonder how the selection process went for the initiative. What sort of people did they unfreeze first if there were so many and went nuts so easily. It's a wonder the Nexus didn't crash and burn by the time you arrived. The leadership is inept and can't function properly under pressure if they're so prone to panic. You'd think they'd be ready for things not to go as excepted after a 600 years long travel. It's not like you cross the street and have the store close as you're about to enter it. Well, I mean, it's not like anybody had a test case example for "what happens when you make a six hundred year voyage over millions of lightyears". They didn't know what happens after six hundred years of stasis because nobody could have done six hundred years of stasis before - so they didn't catch the medical problems that Lexi discovers with Ryder on Elaaden. They didn't really bother to have exceptional crisis leaders at lower levels of Nexus leadership because who really expects that the top seven people in line for the succession get killed basically instantly? Or, in Garson's case, get murdered. They picked aggressive, can-do soldier types for security but, unlike every other BioWare game, that actually ended up as poorly as it would in real life when the soldiers decided to take matters into their own hands during a crisis. And who really could've been expected to account for the Scourge, or for the golden worlds being a bust? Like, it's real easy to say "these guys were punks and a disaster waiting to happen", but this stuff is hard and disasters often happen in spite of efforts to fix them, not because of them.
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Post by Raga on Apr 1, 2017 18:43:37 GMT
Just got to the finale of this mission and it incensed me too. I have now decided I'm just going to refuse to finish it and head-canon they all became Roekkar bait. Not risking my team's lives because she was irresponsible enough to have a child in the wilderness. 3 innocent people lives > than 2 guilty people and 1 innocent person's life.
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Post by toomanyclouds on Apr 1, 2017 21:39:40 GMT
Not sure what this has to do with SJWs, to be honest. Dr. Kennedy is a "my way or the highway" kind of person and these exist in every political walk of life. If you think that the political group you happen to espouse is free of egotists, or people who enable them, you may be somewhat innocent. The game forcing you to support an egotist's decision can't really be traced to any political group in my mind. Really, the questline to me addresses fundamental issues of "free will at all costs" vs. "state mandated safety", which is a political and philosophical topic that has way deeper, older roots than some reddit comment thread about PC culture (anarchism/anti-statism and, on the state-friendly side, some forms of communism spring to mind). The closest we have gotten in recent real life to something like the situation presented here is probably the one-child-policy in China.
However, I do agree with the original poster that the quest handled this situation badly. Dr. Kennedy and her boyfriend/husband (?) are, in my view, egoistical people with bad judgement and you should have been able to at least call them out and take them to task for it if you wanted. Even if the game decided you needed to save them (I got the feeling that Dr. Kennedy's research might have been too important to completely leave her hanging, and there is that innocent baby), RenShep would have done it with the demand that she returns to the Nexus and works off her debt for the things she stole and destroyed, or Shepard's gonna boot them and their newborn out to Kadara. In the end, I think this mission was supposed to give us a heartfelt "the first new life in Nexus" moment and show us how bad the Nexus leadership was at handling the uprising. The second task was fulfilled, but the first just came off phony to me for how little I liked Dr. Kennedy.
I think the problem really lies in the limited range of reactions you have to this. Paragon and Renegade choices forced you to choose between the perfect forgiving angel and the borderline sociopath sometimes, but at least the answers felt different and even if they didn't change anything, they helped characterise your Shepard in your own mind. In Andromeda, you usually get the choice of the same answer but once phrased professionally and once phrased as a Joss Whedon quip, which isn't enough of a tonal difference. The emotional reaction wheel can work, it did in Dragon Age: Inquisition, but that was because there, you had the option of four different choices fairly often, whereas here I think I can count the times I actually got the full four-choices reaction wheel on two hands.
Also, why were my teammates so hype for this new baby? I had Jaal and Vetra with me for the rescue mission and you'd have thought their new nephew had been born or something. This probably wasn't even the first human baby in Heleus, just the first we know about. You can't tell me the Exiles were still getting contraception meds away from the Nexus and people in extreme situations are much more likely to let their emotions get the best of them. Even if they knew this isn't exactly the best situation for babies, they probably already made enough to fill a kindergarten.
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Post by hiffwe on Apr 2, 2017 1:44:12 GMT
I do think it's notable that there's really not enough food, water, or shelter for everyone already awake let alone the new group which just arrive. HOWEVER - That turns around when you have all the water on the Ice World, trade with the Angara, and the fact you can keep a reasonably good chunk of the excess weight on Esos. Hell, a single outpost means the difference between a single mouth to feed being an annoyance and someone going hungry. You're forgetting that she's eight or nine months pregnant by the time we catch up with her. She decided to have her kid even though they thought all the pathfinders were dead, no help was coming, and everybody on the Nexus was on the brink of starving. They didn't have all the water on the ice world, or any trade with the Angara. They just barely had enough to keep the people already awake from a slow, excruciating death (and the cannibalism that comes along with it). She's a horrible, selfish, irresponsible person. My ideal solution would be to let them settle on Eos because by this time resources are no longer an issue, people there are starting to have kids, and we need her research. There's no reason beyond being vindictive to exile her; it's a lose-lose for everyone. The caveat being we get all of her data in full, she's stripped of any kind of rank or prestige she had beforehand, and she's basically doomed to be a farmer for the rest of her days because we obviously can't trust her to not run off with information vital to the Initiative and then blackmail us with it later.
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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 2, 2017 2:23:20 GMT
You're forgetting that she's eight or nine months pregnant by the time we catch up with her. She decided to have her kid even though they thought all the pathfinders were dead, no help was coming, and everybody on the Nexus was on the brink of starving. They didn't have all the water on the ice world, or any trade with the Angara. They just barely had enough to keep the people already awake from a slow, excruciating death (and the cannibalism that comes along with it). She's a horrible, selfish, irresponsible person. My ideal solution would be to let them settle on Eos because by this time resources are no longer an issue, people there are starting to have kids, and we need her research. There's no reason beyond being vindictive to exile her; it's a lose-lose for everyone. The caveat being we get all of her data in full, she's stripped of any kind of rank or prestige she had beforehand, and she's basically doomed to be a farmer for the rest of her days because we obviously can't trust her to not run off with information vital to the Initiative and then blackmail us with it later. Yes, it was a stupid plan because EVERYONE was going to die. Tann was only buying time. There was no hope since the food supplies were running low and the colonies had all failed. However, it's about your decision not hers. Dealing with stupid people is pretty much Ryder's job.
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Post by hiffwe on Apr 2, 2017 3:54:46 GMT
You're forgetting that she's eight or nine months pregnant by the time we catch up with her. She decided to have her kid even though they thought all the pathfinders were dead, no help was coming, and everybody on the Nexus was on the brink of starving. They didn't have all the water on the ice world, or any trade with the Angara. They just barely had enough to keep the people already awake from a slow, excruciating death (and the cannibalism that comes along with it). She's a horrible, selfish, irresponsible person. My ideal solution would be to let them settle on Eos because by this time resources are no longer an issue, people there are starting to have kids, and we need her research. There's no reason beyond being vindictive to exile her; it's a lose-lose for everyone. The caveat being we get all of her data in full, she's stripped of any kind of rank or prestige she had beforehand, and she's basically doomed to be a farmer for the rest of her days because we obviously can't trust her to not run off with information vital to the Initiative and then blackmail us with it later. Yes, it was a stupid plan because EVERYONE was going to die. Tann was only buying time. There was no hope since the food supplies were running low and the colonies had all failed. However, it's about your decision not hers. Dealing with stupid people is pretty much Ryder's job. Lol dude what. It's entirely about her. Our choices were already set in stone by BioWare, all we can do is argue that we should have been able to do more using her decision as the reason why our decisions weren't good enough. She's not just stupid, she's immoral (I know everybody is about three weeks from eating each other, but I want my baby now!), impulsive, and I'd go so far as to say criminally negligent considering both how much strain even a single child would've put on the Initiative as well as all the other morons who'd see her and decide that they were tired of waiting too. There's no reason she should have gotten off as easy as she did other than shoddy writing. Like how when it comes to that Turian who tried to murder his friend and ballsed it up our options are to exile him for a crime he didn't commit or let him off with hardly a slap on the wrist. I'm sorry, what? Is attempted murder or obstruction of justice not a crime in the future? It's the same thing here, BioWare decided to totally forgo telling a good story in lieu of trying to make the player feel emotional. Either through forcing them into a bullshit, contrived "moral dilemma" by only offering the two most extreme choices when it comes to the Turian, or ignoring any kind of uncomfortable reality so they can hit us with a feel good, we all love each other BFFs forever reconciliatory ending. Also weren't you just defending her by saying nobody had the right to tell her she couldn't have the kid?
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Post by Archangel on Apr 2, 2017 4:21:07 GMT
Also weren't you just defending her by saying nobody had the right to tell her she couldn't have the kid? That's the fanbase Bioware has cultivated and catered to....feels before reals. COnsequences don't matter as long as they get a hit of the good feels and pretend to be morally superior for a couple of minutes. Also, I love all the people talking about "they don't have resources for real justice, it's the frontier blah blah blah". Real frontier justice pretty much always involved a tall tree and a short rope.
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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 2, 2017 4:25:44 GMT
And I stand by that, the decision was fucked. However, population control wasn't going to do s***. And by the time things were out of the hole, another mouth won't matter.
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