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Post by shechinah on Mar 28, 2017 21:07:44 GMT
Yea I can understand what you're saying. I do think that people are still missing out that these issues shouldn't be happening today for any game and using 10 year old games and 5 year old ones as a way to say it's always been the case with the franchise, is a cop out. Witcher 3 may have had similar graphical problems, but it gets a pass because the game is amazing and the reviews and metacritic score reflex that. Liara was implying Mass Effect: Andromeda started this trend by saying: "What happened?" Nothing happened. This has always been happening. It has been happening since the very first Mass Effect. Again, I'm not saying that these issues are sins of the franchise and so cannot be called out. I'm just saying that I'm tired of people acting like these issues were never present before Mass Effect: Andromeda because they were. it harkens all the way back to the original game. To put it differently: blame the game for continuing the trend, don't blame the game for starting something that it didn't start.
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Post by solomace on Mar 28, 2017 21:09:07 GMT
Yea I can understand what you're saying. I do think that people are still missing out that these issues shouldn't be happening today for any game and using 10 year old games and 5 year old ones as a way to say it's always been the case with the franchise, is a cop out. Witcher 3 may have had similar graphical problems, but it gets a pass because the game is amazing and the reviews and metacritic score reflex that. Graphical problems aside, the game still is behind on a lot of other aspects including dialogue, gameplay and weird design choices hence why it doesn't get a pass like Witcher 3 did. [ No game should get a pass if people are going to slam the game hard on graphics and I don't trust reviews that much Fair point. No one put their trust in reviews unless your source has never let you down. However surely reviews of all types helps give you a flavor and enough information to make your own decision without a demo or trial of course? I don't entirely believe people when they say they don't like reviews or don't listen or read reviews. How then do you choose your games if you don't know anything about it? Even word of mouth from a friend is a review.
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Post by Liara on Mar 28, 2017 21:15:24 GMT
I didn't mean the bugs.
I meant then beautiful characters compared to now repulsive fem-monsters.
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Post by solomace on Mar 28, 2017 21:17:31 GMT
Yea I can understand what you're saying. I do think that people are still missing out that these issues shouldn't be happening today for any game and using 10 year old games and 5 year old ones as a way to say it's always been the case with the franchise, is a cop out. Witcher 3 may have had similar graphical problems, but it gets a pass because the game is amazing and the reviews and metacritic score reflex that. Graphical problems aside, the game still is behind on a lot of other aspects including dialogue, gameplay and weird design choices hence why it doesn't get a pass like Witcher 3 did. Not a lot of people are making that argument on YouTube, they are just saying the games ugly therefore its bad. It's dismissive of the game based on superficiality. TBH, If people want to do this it's up to them. No one needs to give you or me and reasons other than they don't like the game because it's ugly. Superficial reasons are still a reason and they may not be superficial to some. Not everyone wants a debate and just want to either vent or show their anger. I don't have a problem with that.
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Post by Pearl on Mar 28, 2017 21:20:24 GMT
Because the Bioware that made Inquisition and Andromeda is not the Bioware I fell in love with 12 years ago. It's not the Bioware that created rich, relatable characters. It's not the Bioware that crafted immersive worlds or told memorable, character-driven stories. It feels like they just ran down a list of bullet points, rather than actually put their heart and soul into their recent games.
That said, I don't want this game to fail. But I can't deny that this feels like finding out one of your childhood best friends has become a drug addict.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 28, 2017 21:21:57 GMT
I don't want the game to fail, but if I could I would tell Bioware putting a game out in this condition is unacceptable.
There are games that are finished and polished for the most part with some bugs, and then there are games that come across as unfinished and seemingly in need of having their release pushed back. MEA is the latter. Other games have bugs yes, but some of the stuff I've seen is pretty bad, to the point where I just turned to game off one day because I was so made and didn't play it again until the next day.
I don't know how it plays on console, but the PC version has been pretty bad for me.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 28, 2017 21:23:46 GMT
Not a lot of people are making that argument on YouTube, they are just saying the games ugly therefore its bad. It's dismissive of the game based on superficiality. TBH, If people want to do this it's up to them. No one needs to give you or me and reasons other than they don't like the game because it's ugly. Superficial reasons are still a reason and they may not be superficial to some. Not everyone wants a debate and just want to either vent or show their anger. I don't have a problem with that. As a teacher and a critic, I do have that problem and honestly it's not going to go away. It also angers me greatly when that is the hijacked narrative for a lot of games, all superficial analysis, no comprehensive critique. It just makes everything a bit more juvenile than it should be for the hobby. Fair enough if they want to focus on that, but then I'll call them out for what they are, worthless in the actual discussion.
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Post by panzerwzh on Mar 28, 2017 21:34:59 GMT
ME4: Battlefield Andromeda is the only way to go. Leave the IP to DICE, at least the graphic and animation will be amazing.
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Post by solomace on Mar 28, 2017 21:35:15 GMT
TBH, If people want to do this it's up to them. No one needs to give you or me and reasons other than they don't like the game because it's ugly. Superficial reasons are still a reason and they may not be superficial to some. Not everyone wants a debate and just want to either vent or show their anger. I don't have a problem with that. As a teacher and a critic, I do have that problem and honestly it's not going to go away. It also angers me greatly when that is the hijacked narrative for a lot of games, all superficial analysis, no comprehensive critique. It just makes everything a bit more juvenile than it should be for the hobby. Fair enough if they want to focus on that, but then I'll call them out for what they are, worthless in the actual discussion. Sorry but I fail to see how being a teacher and a critic means that people that makes posts have to hit what you think is the required level for discussion? I like a debate and I like to back up what I'm saying and why I'm saying it, however I don't look down on people who just bitch and moan or just shout the sky is falling or gush and say they love the game. I like to think I can discuss with all types and don't simply ignore people who may not fit my view of how people should post. Sorry if I'm wrong, but your post does sound a lot like you are looking down on peoples post and also dismissing peoples issues simply because they don't want to debate or just vent.
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Post by annerogers on Mar 28, 2017 21:45:54 GMT
TBH, If people want to do this it's up to them. No one needs to give you or me and reasons other than they don't like the game because it's ugly. Superficial reasons are still a reason and they may not be superficial to some. Not everyone wants a debate and just want to either vent or show their anger. I don't have a problem with that. As a teacher and a critic, I do have that problem and honestly it's not going to go away. It also angers me greatly when that is the hijacked narrative for a lot of games, all superficial analysis, no comprehensive critique. It just makes everything a bit more juvenile than it should be for the hobby. Fair enough if they want to focus on that, but then I'll call them out for what they are, worthless in the actual discussion. What if I want the game to fail because the premise is absurd on its face? The Initiative forming less than 20 years after the most important event in human history (with a possible exception for the mastery of fire)? The enormous resources spent on giant ships without a credit spent on armaments? The super-duper special magic engine? The "real time across intergalactic distances" telescope? The moral simplicity of arriving at a 'resource-rich' area of Andromeda without regards to the indigenous species (but it's ok because there are only two and one is nice and the other is BAD)? The 'Chosen One' plot yet again, this time with extra one-liners? The refusal to consider the possibility that a blue Shepard could have spent 300 years repairing damage in the Milky Way, sent a portion of the Reapers to Andromeda to offer assistance (since he/she clearly knew about the project), and actually BEATEN them there by a century? The continuation of a market-based economy given a tiny population and (conveniently) hundreds of uninhabited worlds to exploit? Reminds me of "I know you're saving the galaxy Shepard, but that Widow upgrade isn't free! Grind those credits! It's not as if fabricators exist in this setting!"
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Post by hsomcokesniper on Mar 29, 2017 8:46:59 GMT
*megasnip* ...I don't hate Bioware, I miss it. This x100
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Post by hsomcokesniper on Mar 29, 2017 9:03:13 GMT
Great stuff. Well thought out and says an awful lot about you. What's there to think about? Anyone who spends so much time hating on something so trivial to their lives as a video game need to reevaluate their priorities. There is no reason to rationalize their behavior with long winded excuses like expectations. It's pathetic. You do know that some people like to use books, games, movies, etc as a form of escapism? So, while it may be trivial to you some may actually be passionate about it. Just a thought.
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Post by vondodo on Mar 29, 2017 9:17:44 GMT
Yes... some have been setting themselves up to hate this game ever since it was announced that it would not take place in the Milky Way... and they have been consistently posting towards that effort for 5 years... attacking and attacking the premise behind the game long before the premise was ever known... picking apart every potential avenue for a retcon when they knew absolutely that a retcon was necessary... even stating as much that they intended to be a thorn in Bioware's side until Bioware fixed the endings of ME3. Certainly, this doesn't apply to every ME fan. Lots of ME fans like ME:A as well, but there voices get drowned out in this sea of negativity that has plagued this franchise since the ME3 ending debacle... and, unfortunately, also has caused the employees of Bioware great levels of distress. Aaron Flynn even indicated in an interview that some Bioware employees had to seek therapy to deal with the stress. More recently, the fans openly harassed an employee on facebook merely because they believed she was responsible for the animations... and then they wonder where the creative "magic" left Bioware... it was driven out... by the fans. EA may or may not shut down Bioware because of a "flop" - but the will of these employees to try to create something magical is being lost (you can see it in their eyes when they are interviewed and the nervousness in their body language speaks volumes)... and I doubt that the franchise can recover from that loss. Look, it's foolish to think that MEs ending or SJWs are the main reason critics, paid and unpaid reviewers and ME fans are the reason why the game is getting so much flak. Yes of course some of it will be exactly this but not to the extent the defenders want everyone to believe. I believe EA thinks money is not in single player games but in packs for multiplayer. Isn't it possible that a lot of issues in the game are due making sure combat is fast and fluid for multiplayer and make the single player game just okay? Just like ME3s ending could be a reason, so could this. The fact that didn t make you feel so doesn t mean that anyone saying it does has a point, expecially after all the data posted by reviewers (not users). Even some general newssites pointed at it and even the some feminists (that have to complain about anything) admitted it. ME3 had its problems, but this time its a different thing. The multiplayer thing doesn t concern me... i won't play it for sure :| thus won't have my money at all. If they made ME a mmorpg i would be way more concerned (as they did for Kotor).
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Post by laughingbanana on Mar 29, 2017 9:24:11 GMT
Here's what I think: people need to stop getting so overly defensive about this game's getting a maul critically. I am a huge fan of Bioware (heck, I bought the original Mass Effect trilogy games twice, including all their DLCs) and I am sure that we all are in here but I am seeing this rather unfortunate tendency where people who criticize it are being defined by many fans as "annoying", "hating", or "wanting this game to fail."
In fact, you can say that people so strongly criticize this game precisely because the fact is the exact opposite, people wanted so dearly for this game to succeed and be good and yet by most accounts Bioware dropped the ball, despite the very lengthy development time and tons of resources in their disposal (3 studios working together!)
To dismiss the criticisms as "hating" or "them wanting the game to be fail" is rather silly and in fact seem more of a "nananana I don't want to hear that the game I'm spending 60 bucks on (or more) can possibly be mediocre" a.k.a. extreme buyer's remorse.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 29, 2017 18:00:08 GMT
As a teacher and a critic, I do have that problem and honestly it's not going to go away. It also angers me greatly when that is the hijacked narrative for a lot of games, all superficial analysis, no comprehensive critique. It just makes everything a bit more juvenile than it should be for the hobby. Fair enough if they want to focus on that, but then I'll call them out for what they are, worthless in the actual discussion. Sorry but I fail to see how being a teacher and a critic means that people that makes posts have to hit what you think is the required level for discussion? I like a debate and I like to back up what I'm saying and why I'm saying it, however I don't look down on people who just bitch and moan or just shout the sky is falling or gush and say they love the game. I like to think I can discuss with all types and don't simply ignore people who may not fit my view of how people should post. Sorry if I'm wrong, but your post does sound a lot like you are looking down on peoples post and also dismissing peoples issues simply because they don't want to debate or just vent. No you are correct on that assessment. By virtue of my job and what I do, I expect people to come prepared for a discussion in the end. If they aren't, then they are ultimately pointless to engage. I simply don't have the time or patience for it when that's my day job already. Venting is fine, but actually going online and blasting off on folks without providing a fair rebuttal or going straight to ad homenins or scotsman fallacies, bothers me because its poor discourse. We should be better than feeding the monster that way.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 29, 2017 18:14:02 GMT
Here's what I think: people need to stop getting so overly defensive about this game's getting a maul critically. I am a huge fan of Bioware (heck, I bought the original Mass Effect trilogy games twice, including all their DLCs) and I am sure that we all are in here but I am seeing this rather unfortunate tendency where people who criticize it are being defined by many fans as "annoying", "hating", or "wanting this game to fail." In fact, you can say that people so strongly criticize this game precisely because the fact is the exact opposite, people wanted so dearly for this game to succeed and be good and yet by most accounts Bioware dropped the ball, despite the very lengthy development time and tons of resources in their disposal (3 studios working together!) To dismiss the criticisms as "hating" or "them wanting the game to be fail" is rather silly and in fact seem more of a "nananana I don't want to hear that the game I'm spending 60 bucks on (or more) can possibly be mediocre" a.k.a. extreme buyer's remorse. It goes both ways I've seen many people who hate the game rag on people who feel differently calling them mindless bio drones. While I don't like the tone op set, I think it was a natural reaction given the extreme hatred me a got
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Post by solomace on Mar 29, 2017 18:48:31 GMT
Sorry but I fail to see how being a teacher and a critic means that people that makes posts have to hit what you think is the required level for discussion? I like a debate and I like to back up what I'm saying and why I'm saying it, however I don't look down on people who just bitch and moan or just shout the sky is falling or gush and say they love the game. I like to think I can discuss with all types and don't simply ignore people who may not fit my view of how people should post. Sorry if I'm wrong, but your post does sound a lot like you are looking down on peoples post and also dismissing peoples issues simply because they don't want to debate or just vent. No you are correct on that assessment. By virtue of my job and what I do, I expect people to come prepared for a discussion in the end. If they aren't, then they are ultimately pointless to engage. I simply don't have the time or patience for it when that's my day job already. Venting is fine, but actually going online and blasting off on folks without providing a fair rebuttal or going straight to ad homenins or scotsman fallacies, bothers me because its poor discourse. We should be better than feeding the monster that way. As much as I disagree , I give you props for standing by your convictions. Not many on these forums do.
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Gaminerre
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Post by Gaminerre on Mar 29, 2017 18:55:18 GMT
I don't want the game to fail, in fact, I was pretty happy with the game as a whole. Minor gripes about character models and CC aside...
Though I didn't go into it with the hyped expectations, and was pleasantly surprised during the times when it surpassed them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2017 19:28:32 GMT
I'd argue if we're going to crucify one, we crucify all. It's why the complaints about facial animations are wholly overblown now. You can literally point to any game and uncover flaws in their design, be it animations, art style or what have you. Fair to criticize it,but if that is the backbone of your hatred for the game you something more concrete.now, arguing the animations get in the way of emotional attachment to characters because it's distracting is a better charge to make for example, and one that can be debated and good constructive criticism. Not a lot of people are making that argument on YouTube, they are just saying the games ugly therefore its bad. It's dismissive of the game based on superficiality. I think that in some cases, it's the other way around. Before we ever saw any of MEA, some people had decided to hate it. Because ME3 endings, because leaving TMW, because... whatever. As more information was released, there was more to pre-hate. Hated Mako, must hate Nomad. Want shooter corridors, must hate big maps. Want linear story with dramatic cutscenes, hate open world exploration. When someone is predisposed to hate something, they can find plenty of logical sounding reasons for it (rationalization). Qualities and characteristics that are easily overlooked / dismissed / accepted in something we like are automatically intolerable in something we've decided we must hate. Characters don't look like the participants in my fantasy orgy, therefore they're ugly. Etc. It's just an ongoing cycle. People hated DA2 because it wasn't DAO, and DAI because it wasn't DA2. A lot of people who enjoyed the Mako exploration style gameplay of ME1 did not like the move to the heavily cinematic corridor shooter of ME2, but people who did like it don't like this move to Nomad exploration style gameplay. The cycle continues.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Mar 29, 2017 19:34:32 GMT
It pisses me off that there are people that want the only IP that is a space opera rpg that is on the market to fail.
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Post by solomace on Mar 29, 2017 19:56:34 GMT
It pisses me off that there are people that want the only IP that is a space opera rpg that is on the market to fail. And it pisses me off that some people don't understand that some people don't like MEA and don't want it succeed, as they think if it does it tells the devs and publishers everything is okay do the same for the next one. Just because it's the only space opera RPG on the market, are people supposed to buy it even if they don't like it? Care to enlighten people how they want the next MEA to be better than this one without having to fork out money by buying this one?
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Post by Stinky3377 on Mar 29, 2017 20:00:59 GMT
So this game any good? Just bought it and now I'm motivated to beat ME3 finally for some reason. Am I setting myself up for disappointment?
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Post by solomace on Mar 29, 2017 20:08:07 GMT
So this game any good? Just bought it and now I'm motivated to beat ME3 finally for some reason. Am I setting myself up for disappointment? I don't think you will find an honest answer on here m8. Way to many extreme views. You've bought it so my advice now is to stay clear of these forums and make your own mind up. If you don't like it, come back here and bitch and moan with the rest. if you do like it, come back here and bitch and gush with the rest. Either way, don't read these forums until you've played it yourself. Now if you hadn't bought it...
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Stinky3377
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Post by Stinky3377 on Mar 29, 2017 20:41:00 GMT
Ha thanks.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Mar 29, 2017 23:26:49 GMT
It pisses me off that there are people that want the only IP that is a space opera rpg that is on the market to fail. And it pisses me off that some people don't understand that some people don't like MEA and don't want it succeed, as they think if it does it tells the devs and publishers everything is okay do the same for the next one. Just because it's the only space opera RPG on the market, are people supposed to buy it even if they don't like it? Care to enlighten people how they want the next MEA to be better than this one without having to fork out money by buying this one? Where in my post did I say what other people should do with their money? Pro tip saying I am pissed about people wanting it to fail is not the same as telling people what to spend their money in.
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