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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 28, 2017 17:03:23 GMT
I can agree with you that people who do harassment are scums. I disagree on pretty much everything else. I was making your argument years ago against people complained that games were dumbed down from ME1 and rpg elements were stripped. Back then I thought the core of the game is solid so who cares if the pereiphery was not to my liking. Well, now I was one of them because things I appreciate in games (like faithfulness to ingame science and attention to story logic) has decreased in quality and importance, and I got a bunch of mechanics that I couldn't care less about. Don't be surprised next game when you become the person to cry foul at Bioware for messing up what you consider is your "core" game, cuz I think a lot of us would have migrated to something else. The logic and science of this franchise flew out the window the moment Project Lazarus happend, then totally left Orbit when the Star Child appeared. Those aspects of this franchise were destroyed LONG before this game, so don't even try to act like this is a new development. There was absolutely no way to use the science and logic of this setting to explain Andromeda, no explanation was EVER going to be satisfactory, but the reality is, ME3 ensured the Milky Way was absolutely, and completely unusable, for the rest of time. I knew the second Andromeda was announced I wouldn't like their bending of the lore or science to justify it, because I knew it was impossible to justify. but I also knew they had literally no other choice besides just not make ME anymore, and I personally don't want the only Space Opera RPG on the market to go away, never to return. Glad you brought up lazurus project, cuz I think it's a very good example of bioware having one of their "artistic" moment. To me at least, it comes from having to have things have a "deeper meaning", a blunt allegory to how the franchise is reborn and taken in a different direction, never mind what it does to the plot. It's the same hubris that lead them to think ME3 ending was artistic. Now that's outa the way, I do think going to andromeda conflicts with the lore, but the execution could have save it. IF andromeda had been done very well, and imo done very differently, and reception would have been good. For me at least, if Heleus had already been settle by space flight civilization or civilizations, it would have worked. The native species would have their own politics, and we would get to explore what it is like to settle into someone else's backyard. First Act could revolve around gaining at least the trust of one faction of natives so we get a few crappy planet to settle in, Act II deals with how to get colony started and prosper, making alliances and friends, as well as enemies. Act III deals with the consequences of new comers upsetting the existing balance of power, and the choices made in ACT 1 and 2 comes into play. xenophobic terrorist could be the enemies we fight through out the game. If the game had gone that, I will be too busy being engrossed in the new lore to worry about the old ones. Edit: I just realized I just repeated the story structure of DA2, but I still think that would have worked.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 17:10:19 GMT
What's a hater exactly? Someone who, say, points out that having the asari as clones is a disastrously bad design decision? Bugs I can live with but shit like that reeks of bad prioritising. 'Make asari individuals or polish combat some more? Combat! Combat! Combat!'. I don't want the game to fail and setting up the 'the haters did it!' defence is ridiculous. If Andromeda fails it'll be because of design decisions such as the one above. But I do hope it succeeds so we may have a chance at a better game further down the line. How about the post that appears a few posts above yours... openly declaring a hatred for Bioware for ruining DA:I? How about other posts I've read here and on the old BSN opening declaring that they want Bioware to fail as a company or openly declaring that they'll never like anything Mac Walters has a hand in. They have been both repetitive and numerous. What about the "scums" that have harassed Bioware employees directly. What about the scums that made death threats to Bioware employees during the ME3 ending debacle... and who haven't gone away in 5 long years. Over the top criticism is just that - over the top and, my definition of the "haters" are the ones engaging in that "over the top" behavior.
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Post by solomace on Mar 28, 2017 17:11:20 GMT
It could, but what should those who don't like MEA do? Dunno. I come here and moan. Great response. I like it
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Post by solomace on Mar 28, 2017 17:12:40 GMT
I don't know why many people want MEA to fail ) I can tell why I want the sales of the game to be low enough for EA to act accordingly. It's unfinished low quality twaddle. For me it's the 'adequate cause' for depart. Okay, I can get behind your response. Sales low enough for them to act sounds better than I want them to fail. Good response.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 17:13:34 GMT
The haters here however have been going on long enough that they have had the negative impact on the story of ME:A. It's a story that tries too hard to "justify" it's premise to the fans... explain leaving the galaxy. It tries to hard to stick in "easter eggs" to pacify old ME fans who built up their concerns about it not being a recognizably "Mass Effect" game for years... from the very moment the idea of Andromeda was announced. This has taken away from their ability to focus the story that was being told in Andromeda... of colonization, of fears of leaving, and all the other "feelings" that could have been better built upon. The tensions in the company probably also affect DA:I (and now we have a post above here declaring an all-out never ending hatred for Bioware for a loss of quality between DA:O and DA:I. It's merely a vicious circle that has gone on for 5 years... too long. I just don't see this company (the people inside it) recovering from it. They even tried giving it to a fresh group... but that the "hating" fans have instantly started attacking that group... viciously and over-the-top in some cases (evidenced by the Facebook posts the one girl received that were published on line). I'm not blaming all fans who dislike the game... I don't know how any of us can deter the actual haters and portray any level of emotional encouragement to the actual staff at Bioware... the tremendously creative people... both old and new... who now somehow have to find the gumption and desire to try again IF this franchise is to be "saved." - particularly when we're continually attacked and dismissed as being blind "defenders" of the game for simply stating that we like the game or even that we like particular elements of the game. Personally, I think the franchise may be done for... and that saddens me greatly. I can agree with you that people who do harassment are scums. I disagree on pretty much everything else. I was making your argument years ago against people complained that games were dumbed down from ME1 and rpg elements were stripped. Back then I thought the core of the game is solid so who cares if the pereiphery was not to my liking. Well, now I was one of them because things I appreciate in games (like faithfulness to ingame science and attention to story logic) has decreased in quality and importance, and I got a bunch of mechanics that I couldn't care less about. Don't be surprised next game when you become the person to cry foul at Bioware for messing up what you consider is your "core" game, cuz I think a lot of us would have migrated to something else. Doubt it... because I'm very pessimistic about the survival of Bioware as a whole. Also, I don't tend to even frequent the forums of games I don't like. I try to spend my time playing games I do like instead.
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Post by London on Mar 28, 2017 17:16:25 GMT
This is my first time opening this thread, and it's already 9 pages so sorry if I repeat others' ideas.
I think some people want this to fail because they are disappointed. I don't want this game to fail, but I wanted it to be as awesome as ME2/3 were to me. Those games are close to the very top of my all-time list. ME3 might be at the top in regards to characters/storytelling for me. Even with contenders like Last of Us.
I think everyone actually wanted this game to succeed, and succeed big. But it's just not happening with what we got. I hope they can make the improvements via patches and DLC to get us there.
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Post by The Twilight God on Mar 28, 2017 17:18:10 GMT
Why should anyone WANT it to succeed if they feel it's a bad game and does not deserve success? It's success invites another bad game.
If it was a brand new IP I don't think it would matter to people, but once you have a known (beloved) quantity people would probably rather it just die and go away then be sullied further. Their first option would probably be that it gets better/back on track, but if that's not feasible post poor sales they'd rather it just end.
Then, they've probably succeeded in killing it. They should own up to that though and accept the responsibility... and the criticism of their behavior that goes with it... rather than continuing to attack the fans who happen to like the game and do want it to succeed. Like it or lump it, there are some of us who do think that ME:A is a pretty decent game with an interesting story and good gameplay. It does need some patching... and we would like the people at Bioware to at least be given some opportunity to support and patch the game... they deserve at least that much. The haters should also avoid the continued use of sweeping universals, oh, like "why would ANYONE"... because, I'm quite sure there are are some people who, despite disliking ME:A and liking ME:T don't want to see ME:A fail so miserably that the franchise collapses entirely. There are also some of us who have always seen a number of flaws in the ME:T and have liked it greatly in spite of those flaws... some of which were merely repeated in ME:A... and some of those flaws were repeated because, essentially, some of the known "hater fans" kept requesting them. Responsibility?
Are you going to man up and accept the responsibility for killing the latest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise? Or should the people behind it?
Their behavior?
Voicing their dislike for something... they dislike? If the game does well should I blame you if the next game is just as bad? Would you take responsibility for your... behavior?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 17:42:27 GMT
Then, they've probably succeeded in killing it. They should own up to that though and accept the responsibility... and the criticism of their behavior that goes with it... rather than continuing to attack the fans who happen to like the game and do want it to succeed. Like it or lump it, there are some of us who do think that ME:A is a pretty decent game with an interesting story and good gameplay. It does need some patching... and we would like the people at Bioware to at least be given some opportunity to support and patch the game... they deserve at least that much. The haters should also avoid the continued use of sweeping universals, oh, like "why would ANYONE"... because, I'm quite sure there are are some people who, despite disliking ME:A and liking ME:T don't want to see ME:A fail so miserably that the franchise collapses entirely. There are also some of us who have always seen a number of flaws in the ME:T and have liked it greatly in spite of those flaws... some of which were merely repeated in ME:A... and some of those flaws were repeated because, essentially, some of the known "hater fans" kept requesting them. Responsibility?
Are you going to man up and accept the responsibility for killing the latest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise? Or should the people behind it?
Their behavior?
Voicing their dislike for something... they dislike? If the game does well should I blame you if the next game is just as bad? Would you take responsibility for your... behavior?
Again, you're twisting what I'm saying to try to make it appear that I'm including people that I'm not including in my definition of "hater." The "haters" have engaged in reprehensible behavior that goes beyond fair criticism. People here, however, will not allow anyone to criticize "the haters" for that behavior... attacking people who do by implying that their including people they are clearly not including (i.e people making fair ciriticisms about the game). I have repeatedly said "fair criticism is one thing, but "over-the-top criticism" is something else. You're the ones defending those "haters" by attacking me trying to suggest that I'm including people who offer fair criticism of the game in that group of "haters" that I'm calling out for their specific behavior. So, I ask you - are you actually defending people who harass Bioware employees, who have heaped "hate" on the forums for 5 years... because you know they do exist... They aren't "everyone" and I have never said that they were. The "haters" are a problem for both of us... preventing the valid criticisms of the game being heard as being valid and preventing people like me from openly liking a game they like. I'm also of the view that creative people do not "create" works up to the par of their talent when people are continually beating them over the head for their past mistakes.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 28, 2017 18:06:00 GMT
The logic and science of this franchise flew out the window the moment Project Lazarus happend, then totally left Orbit when the Star Child appeared. Those aspects of this franchise were destroyed LONG before this game, so don't even try to act like this is a new development. There was absolutely no way to use the science and logic of this setting to explain Andromeda, no explanation was EVER going to be satisfactory, but the reality is, ME3 ensured the Milky Way was absolutely, and completely unusable, for the rest of time. I knew the second Andromeda was announced I wouldn't like their bending of the lore or science to justify it, because I knew it was impossible to justify. but I also knew they had literally no other choice besides just not make ME anymore, and I personally don't want the only Space Opera RPG on the market to go away, never to return. Glad you brought up lazurus project, cuz I think it's a very good example of bioware having one of their "artistic" moment. To me at least, it comes from having to have things have a "deeper meaning", a blunt allegory to how the franchise is reborn and taken in a different direction, never mind what it does to the plot. It's the same hubris that lead them to think ME3 ending was artistic. Now that's outa the way, I do think going to andromeda conflicts with the lore, but the execution could have save it. IF andromeda had been done very well, and imo done very differently, and reception would have been good. For me at least, if Heleus had already been settle by space flight civilization or civilizations, it would have worked. The native species would have their own politics, and we would get to explore what it is like to settle into someone else's backyard. First Act could revolve around gaining at least the trust of one faction of natives so we get a few crappy planet to settle in, Act II deals with how to get colony started and prosper, making alliances and friends, as well as enemies. Act III deals with the consequences of new comers upsetting the existing balance of power, and the choices made in ACT 1 and 2 comes into play. xenophobic terrorist could be the enemies we fight through out the game. If the game had gone that, I will be too busy being engrossed in the new lore to worry about the old ones. Edit: I just realized I just repeated the story structure of DA2, but I still think that would have worked. The flaw in this is, that structure would work, if we are dealing with an entire galaxy, where multiple civilizations can thrive. We aren't, we are dealing with but a single Cluster. To use the OT as an example, what you propose would be, having the Citadel, and all the races it represents, inside the Hades Gamma Cluster, ignoring the entire rest of the galaxy. That's just as ridiculous as the failed execution they've done here, imo.
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Post by solomace on Mar 28, 2017 18:08:50 GMT
Responsibility?
Are you going to man up and accept the responsibility for killing the latest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise? Or should the people behind it?
Their behavior?
Voicing their dislike for something... they dislike? If the game does well should I blame you if the next game is just as bad? Would you take responsibility for your... behavior?
Again, you're twisting what I'm saying to try to make it appear that I'm including people that I'm not including in my definition of "hater." The "haters" have engaged in reprehensible behavior that goes beyond fair criticism. People here, however, will not allow anyone to criticize "the haters" for that behavior... attacking people who do by implying that their including people they are clearly not including (i.e people making fair ciriticisms about the game). I have repeatedly said "fair criticism is one thing, but "over-the-top criticism" is something else. You're the ones defending those "haters" by attacking me trying to suggest that I'm including people who offer fair criticism of the game in that group of "haters" that I'm calling out for their specific behavior. So, I ask you - are you actually defending people who harass Bioware employees, who have heaped "hate" on the forums for 5 years... because you know they do exist... They aren't "everyone" and I have never said that they were. The "haters" are a problem for both of us... preventing the valid criticisms of the game being heard as being valid and preventing people like me from openly liking a game they like. I'm also of the view that creative people do not "create" works up to the par of their talent when people are continually beating them over the head for their past mistakes. I can agree that people take their dislike for the game and for Bioware too far and equally those who love the game do it too. However your opinion of haters may not be the same as others. You can be a hater of the game and still not offend anyone. I also think that the defenders of the game clump anyone who is disappointed with the game as a hater so when I read someone is a hater of the game, I don't think at all of your definition of a hater and most other I bet don't. Not saying your definition is wrong, I just think that if your going to use the word hater, your going to find that people will be jumping down your throat, as I think your definition isn't the general feeling on any game what a hater is. . What your talking about to me are morons. People who personally attack devs are morons. Personally attacking a company I don't have a problem with, but attacking a dev on twitter or on forums is not a hater but a moron. Telling a dev you don't like their work because of (insert here) and explaining why isn't a problem. Even if you just say you don't like their art or level design without explaining why isn't a problem, death threats and insults are. If you make a product and put your name to it, you need to reap all that comes with it. Put it this way, I would rather be in any Biowares Devs shoes then do the boring mundane 9-5 job I do. Hating a game isn't a problem to me just like loving a game isn't. Telling others to move along, shut up, silence or your killing the game because you don't like it and didn't buy it, that to me is wrong.
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 28, 2017 18:13:09 GMT
Glad you brought up lazurus project, cuz I think it's a very good example of bioware having one of their "artistic" moment. To me at least, it comes from having to have things have a "deeper meaning", a blunt allegory to how the franchise is reborn and taken in a different direction, never mind what it does to the plot. It's the same hubris that lead them to think ME3 ending was artistic. Now that's outa the way, I do think going to andromeda conflicts with the lore, but the execution could have save it. IF andromeda had been done very well, and imo done very differently, and reception would have been good. For me at least, if Heleus had already been settle by space flight civilization or civilizations, it would have worked. The native species would have their own politics, and we would get to explore what it is like to settle into someone else's backyard. First Act could revolve around gaining at least the trust of one faction of natives so we get a few crappy planet to settle in, Act II deals with how to get colony started and prosper, making alliances and friends, as well as enemies. Act III deals with the consequences of new comers upsetting the existing balance of power, and the choices made in ACT 1 and 2 comes into play. xenophobic terrorist could be the enemies we fight through out the game. If the game had gone that, I will be too busy being engrossed in the new lore to worry about the old ones. Edit: I just realized I just repeated the story structure of DA2, but I still think that would have worked. The flaw in this is, that structure would work, if we are dealing with an entire galaxy, where multiple civilizations can thrive. We aren't, we are dealing with but a single Cluster. To use the OT as an example, what you propose would be, having the Citadel, and all the races it represents, inside the Hades Gamma Cluster, ignoring the entire rest of the galaxy. That's just as ridiculous as the failed execution they've done here, imo. That's something that has to be worked out i suppose. You might have to limit the scale of those civilization to maybe one planet each, or maybe limit their advancement to the point to they aren't yet capable for doing mass colonization or migration, or that the cluster just contain uncharacteristically high number of habitable worlds. Or maybe since there is mutual fear of expansion between different native species, they just mutually agree to not colonize other worlds, or that their biology are so unique (like the quarians) that its inpractical for them to settle different planet. Just a thought.
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Post by annerogers on Mar 28, 2017 18:13:38 GMT
Responsibility?
Are you going to man up and accept the responsibility for killing the latest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise? Or should the people behind it?
Their behavior?
Voicing their dislike for something... they dislike? If the game does well should I blame you if the next game is just as bad? Would you take responsibility for your... behavior?
Again, you're twisting what I'm saying to try to make it appear that I'm including people that I'm not including in my definition of "hater." The "haters" have engaged in reprehensible behavior that goes beyond fair criticism. People here, however, will not allow anyone to criticize "the haters" for that behavior... attacking people who do by implying that their including people they are clearly not including (i.e people making fair ciriticisms about the game). I have repeatedly said "fair criticism is one thing, but "over-the-top criticism" is something else. You're the ones defending those "haters" by attacking me trying to suggest that I'm including people who offer fair criticism of the game in that group of "haters" that I'm calling out for their specific behavior. So, I ask you - are you actually defending people who harass Bioware employees, who have heaped "hate" on the forums for 5 years... because you know they do exist... They aren't "everyone" and I have never said that they were. The "haters" are a problem for both of us... preventing the valid criticisms of the game being heard as being valid and preventing people like me from openly liking a game they like. I'm also of the view that creative people do not "create" works up to the par of their talent when people are continually beating them over the head for their past mistakes. So you're blaming the 'haters' for the poor qualities of the game? That this game would be some polished jewel of gaming perfection if only those mean old 'haters' would forget all about the company's previous controversies? BTW does that explain the quality drop in Roman Polanski's films- it's all the fault of the 'haters' who won't get over his past?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 18:21:30 GMT
Again, you're twisting what I'm saying to try to make it appear that I'm including people that I'm not including in my definition of "hater." The "haters" have engaged in reprehensible behavior that goes beyond fair criticism. People here, however, will not allow anyone to criticize "the haters" for that behavior... attacking people who do by implying that their including people they are clearly not including (i.e people making fair ciriticisms about the game). I have repeatedly said "fair criticism is one thing, but "over-the-top criticism" is something else. You're the ones defending those "haters" by attacking me trying to suggest that I'm including people who offer fair criticism of the game in that group of "haters" that I'm calling out for their specific behavior. So, I ask you - are you actually defending people who harass Bioware employees, who have heaped "hate" on the forums for 5 years... because you know they do exist... They aren't "everyone" and I have never said that they were. The "haters" are a problem for both of us... preventing the valid criticisms of the game being heard as being valid and preventing people like me from openly liking a game they like. I'm also of the view that creative people do not "create" works up to the par of their talent when people are continually beating them over the head for their past mistakes. So you're blaming the 'haters' for the poor qualities of the game? That this game would be some polished jewel of gaming perfection if only those mean old 'haters' would forget all about the company's previous controversies? BTW does that explain the quality drop in Roman Polanski's films- it's all the fault of the 'haters' who won't get over his past? I'm saying that the level of hate heaped on Bioware affects the quality of the games they are able to produce... yes... because people under that kind of stress cannot create their best work... and people should not just expect them to rise above all this hate and suddenly produce a gem or be even able to hire new people who can produce that gem. The hate has consequences... it impedes the company from doing it's best. So, I do think that this time round the company will fail entirely... no more Bioware... no more Mass Effect. Sad, yes... and it won't matter who anybody "blames" for anything. We ALL lose. ... and furthermore, if this tolerance of internet hate is the pattern of the future (i.e. only attacking those who criticize "haters"), this sort of pattern will eventually, IMO, kill the industry. The moment a company makes a "flop," it will suffer the same long-term heavy-handed hatred that Bioware has experienced, the "creative desire" of the employees of that company will falter, the quality of their games will go down. Did I say it was "ALL the fault" of haters... No, I didn't (so again, what I'm saying is being twisted to try to apply it "universally" when that is NOT what I've been saying.
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Post by solomace on Mar 28, 2017 18:35:45 GMT
So you're blaming the 'haters' for the poor qualities of the game? That this game would be some polished jewel of gaming perfection if only those mean old 'haters' would forget all about the company's previous controversies? BTW does that explain the quality drop in Roman Polanski's films- it's all the fault of the 'haters' who won't get over his past? I'm saying that the level of hate heaped on Bioware affects the quality of the games they are able to produce... yes... because people under that kind of stress cannot create their best work. You're really trying to say that because some people hate Bioware, devs cannot do their best work? Are you now not moving into the territory of insulting the devs, as your saying they're stressed out and cannot do their best work because they're mentally not strong enough to ignore the hate for a company not them? Where is your evidence of this? I suspect their best work wasn't achieved for a number of factors some being suits in EA, budget not big enough, rush factor and maybe not having the quality to pull of this type of game?
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Post by solomace on Mar 28, 2017 18:45:45 GMT
So you're blaming the 'haters' for the poor qualities of the game? That this game would be some polished jewel of gaming perfection if only those mean old 'haters' would forget all about the company's previous controversies? BTW does that explain the quality drop in Roman Polanski's films- it's all the fault of the 'haters' who won't get over his past? I'm saying that the level of hate heaped on Bioware affects the quality of the games they are able to produce... yes... because people under that kind of stress cannot create their best work... and people should not just expect them to rise above all this hate and suddenly produce a gem or be even able to hire new people who can produce that gem. The hate has consequences... it impedes the company from doing it's best. So, I do think that this time round the company will fail entirely... no more Bioware... no more Mass Effect. Sad, yes... and it won't matter who anybody "blames" for anything. We ALL lose. ... and furthermore, if this tolerance of internet hate is the pattern of the future (i.e. only attacking those who criticize "haters"), this sort of pattern will eventually, IMO, kill the industry. The moment a company makes a "flop," it will suffer the same long-term heavy-handed hatred that Bioware has experienced, the "creative desire" of the employees of that company will falter, the quality of their games will go down. Did I say it was "ALL the fault" of haters... No, I didn't (so again, what I'm saying is being twisted to try to apply it "universally" when that is NOT what I've been saying. Ahh, sorry you edit your post before my response. I think you're now starting to over react like a lot of people are. Your making out that company and devs are extremely fragile and cannot handle criticism even hatred. Does it hurt them, yes I bet it does. Should it inspire them to do better, it should but only they can answer that. In the end they work for Bioware, a company that has a long history and equally a very vocal fan base. I'm sure they knew this going in that unless what they produces is stellar, they will receive a ton of "hate" and disappointment". I think you do them a disservices and that they are mentally stronger than you think. If they're not, then they're in the wrong business.
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Post by pdusen on Mar 28, 2017 18:47:54 GMT
Schadenfreude.
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Post by DoctorFox on Mar 28, 2017 19:04:25 GMT
Seriously, what up with all these supposed fans of this game being so excited to find YouTube videos and post them everywhere, hoping this game fails? Y'all do realize if this game fails EA will put the series on the back urned like they did dead space....Right? I think the general idea behind all the bad animations videos is that if they are brought to EA/Bioware's attention, then they'll do something about it and patch the game back up to higher standards. If people ignored the games glaringly obvious problems, Bioware wouldn't think there was anything wrong and simply leave the game in it's broken state.
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Post by joglee on Mar 28, 2017 19:05:47 GMT
Seriously, what up with all these supposed fans of this game being so excited to find YouTube videos and post them everywhere, hoping this game fails? Y'all do realize if this game fails EA will put the series on the back urned like they did dead space....Right? I think the general idea behind all the bad animations videos is that if they are brought to EA/Bioware's attention, then they'll do something about it and patch the game back up to higher standards. If people ignored the games glaringly obvious problems, Bioware wouldn't think there was anything wrong and simply leave the game in it's broken state. Look a few posts up, big difference between pointing out issues and calling for deaths of people over a game.
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Post by The Twilight God on Mar 28, 2017 19:09:07 GMT
Responsibility?
Are you going to man up and accept the responsibility for killing the latest Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles franchise? Or should the people behind it?
Their behavior?
Voicing their dislike for something... they dislike? If the game does well should I blame you if the next game is just as bad? Would you take responsibility for your... behavior?
Again, you're twisting what I'm saying to try to make it appear that I'm including people that I'm not including in my definition of "hater." The "haters" have engaged in reprehensible behavior that goes beyond fair criticism. People here, however, will not allow anyone to criticize "the haters" for that behavior... attacking people who do by implying that their including people they are clearly not including (i.e people making fair ciriticisms about the game). I have repeatedly said "fair criticism is one thing, but "over-the-top criticism" is something else. You're the ones defending those "haters" by attacking me trying to suggest that I'm including people who offer fair criticism of the game in that group of "haters" that I'm calling out for their specific behavior. So, I ask you - are you actually defending people who harass Bioware employees, who have heaped "hate" on the forums for 5 years... because you know they do exist... They aren't "everyone" and I have never said that they were. The "haters" are a problem for both of us... preventing the valid criticisms of the game being heard as being valid and preventing people like me from openly liking a game they like. I'm also of the view that creative people do not "create" works up to the par of their talent when people are continually beating them over the head for their past mistakes.
There is no "again". I made a post, you replied and now I'm replying to you. At no point in our exchange did you ever specify anything other than "people wanting the game to fail". "Hater" for most people simply means someone who does not like something. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else.
Only fair criticism is going to kill the game. If I go off on you for liking the game with personal attacks and whatnot I don't see how that's going to convince someone on the fence about the game to not buy it seeing as my hypothetical vitriol towards you would have no bearing on the state of the game. You are now interjecting an entirely different subject matter than what I originally replied to which is, "Why so many WANT the game to fail?" I thought that was evident in my original posting.
I don't read these forums like a hawk. I've heard a story of a former animator who left Bioware was harassed on social media. Other than that I'm not sure what you qualify as hate on this particular forum. Considering you consider my reply an attack against you I can't really take you seriously. I've seen a lot of criticisms, but vehement hatred directed toward individuals not so much. Though I'm sure there are people like that. As far as rather or not I agree that Andromeda warrants harassment and personal attacks... no. I can understand the response to the ME3 ending as Bioware was playing fast and loose with people's emotions, but this is almost like a new IP with the new location, characters, etc. that no one should be invested enough to have those types of strong feelings about this game.
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Post by finoderi on Mar 28, 2017 19:09:10 GMT
It's a beauty of the Internet right there. There is no telling if he is trolling or really that desperate )
EDIT: Sorry, It was a response to pdusen's post.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 28, 2017 19:09:40 GMT
Seriously, what up with all these supposed fans of this game being so excited to find YouTube videos and post them everywhere, hoping this game fails? Y'all do realize if this game fails EA will put the series on the back urned like they did dead space....Right? I think the general idea behind all the bad animations videos is that if they are brought to EA/Bioware's attention, then they'll do something about it and patch the game back up to higher standards. If people ignored the games glaringly obvious problems, Bioware wouldn't think there was anything wrong and simply leave the game in it's broken state. I think it's mostly to spite them.
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Post by solomace on Mar 28, 2017 19:11:22 GMT
I think the general idea behind all the bad animations videos is that if they are brought to EA/Bioware's attention, then they'll do something about it and patch the game back up to higher standards. If people ignored the games glaringly obvious problems, Bioware wouldn't think there was anything wrong and simply leave the game in it's broken state. Look a few posts up, big difference between pointing out issues and calling for deaths of people over a game. Not sure why you've responded to his post in the way you have? What is your point? He just mentioned why people put vids on youtube. The scary idiot who posted has nothing at all to do with his post.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 19:12:54 GMT
Again, you're twisting what I'm saying to try to make it appear that I'm including people that I'm not including in my definition of "hater." The "haters" have engaged in reprehensible behavior that goes beyond fair criticism. People here, however, will not allow anyone to criticize "the haters" for that behavior... attacking people who do by implying that their including people they are clearly not including (i.e people making fair ciriticisms about the game). I have repeatedly said "fair criticism is one thing, but "over-the-top criticism" is something else. You're the ones defending those "haters" by attacking me trying to suggest that I'm including people who offer fair criticism of the game in that group of "haters" that I'm calling out for their specific behavior. So, I ask you - are you actually defending people who harass Bioware employees, who have heaped "hate" on the forums for 5 years... because you know they do exist... They aren't "everyone" and I have never said that they were. The "haters" are a problem for both of us... preventing the valid criticisms of the game being heard as being valid and preventing people like me from openly liking a game they like. I'm also of the view that creative people do not "create" works up to the par of their talent when people are continually beating them over the head for their past mistakes. I can agree that people take their dislike for the game and for Bioware too far and equally those who love the game do it too. However your opinion of haters may not be the same as others. You can be a hater of the game and still not offend anyone. I also think that the defenders of the game clump anyone who is disappointed with the game as a hater so when I read someone is a hater of the game, I don't think at all of your definition of a hater and most other I bet don't. Not saying your definition is wrong, I just think that if your going to use the word hater, your going to find that people will be jumping down your throat, as I think your definition isn't the general feeling on any game what a hater is. . What your talking about to me are morons. People who personally attack devs are morons. Personally attacking a company I don't have a problem with, but attacking a dev on twitter or on forums is not a hater but a moron. Telling a dev you don't like their work because of (insert here) and explaining why isn't a problem. Even if you just say you don't like their art or level design without explaining why isn't a problem, death threats and insults are. If you make a product and put your name to it, you need to reap all that comes with it. Put it this way, I would rather be in any Biowares Devs shoes then do the boring mundane 9-5 job I do. Hating a game isn't a problem to me just like loving a game isn't. Telling others to move along, shut up, silence or your killing the game because you don't like it and didn't buy it, that to me is wrong. In my part of the world, the term "moron" is more insulting generally than the term "hater." As a parent of a person with a disability that impedes their learning, I am personally far more insulted by your use of that term that you could possibly imagine. Also, I have repeatedly defined within my posts as being the individuals who have gone "over-the top" in criticizing Bioware for "5 long years." Now, if I should expect people to jump down my throat for using the term "hater" AND defining it within my posts such that you should have been easily able to discern that I was not meaning everyone who criticizes the game... then, to be only fair, shouldn't the people I'm referring to specifically as "haters" expect that dumping that level of hate on company's employees for that duration of time would affect the morale of those employees and impede their ability to create their best work?
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Post by shelledfade on Mar 28, 2017 19:12:55 GMT
Seriously, what up with all these supposed fans of this game being so excited to find YouTube videos and post them everywhere, hoping this game fails? Y'all do realize if this game fails EA will put the series on the back urned like they did dead space....Right? It already failed in most respects. When a developer has to go back into their game to fix hideous animations its a serious problem. Personally I've only played the mp at this point, I haven't touched the single player because I've seen all the videos floating around regarding it. I'm waiting for the animation patch before I start the single player. Not having my experience ruined by how bad it is. They should have seriously delayed the game. It isn't anyone's fault either but the people who worked on the game and EA pushing deadlines. Whoever is at fault is regardless, because it should have been clear that this game should not have been released in this state. They either knew how bad it was and released it, or actually thought it was good enough to release. Either situation is a bad one.
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Post by joglee on Mar 28, 2017 19:14:51 GMT
Seriously, what up with all these supposed fans of this game being so excited to find YouTube videos and post them everywhere, hoping this game fails? Y'all do realize if this game fails EA will put the series on the back urned like they did dead space....Right? It already failed in most respects. When a developer has to go back into their game to fix hideous animations its a serious problem. Personally I've only played the mp at this point, I haven't touched the single player because I've seen all the videos floating around regarding it. I'm waiting for the animation patch before I start the single player. Not having my experience ruined by how bad it is. They should have seriously delayed the game. It isn't anyone's fault either but the people who worked on the game and EA pushing deadlines. Whoever is at fault is regardless, because it should have been clear that this game should not have been released in this state. They either knew how bad it was and released it, or actually thought it was good enough. Either situation is a bad one. Once you get past the opening and those oh so often quoted gifs the animations really do improve.
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