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Post by Psychevore on Mar 28, 2017 12:42:00 GMT
People will never be done with the endings. Its 5 years later and i still read/hear about them every day. I am so tired of the ending talk now. *insert frozen gif* You'd think those endings were important to people or something I think that's quite ridiculous to be honest. It's been 5 years. Let it go.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 28, 2017 13:06:56 GMT
You'd think those endings were important to people or something I think that's quite ridiculous to be honest. It's been 5 years. Let it go.
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Post by FemShepard'sPie on Mar 28, 2017 14:45:49 GMT
To be fair, Destiny sold like hotcakes: lots and lots of millions sold. I'm the biggest optimist there is when it comes to Mass Effect, but even I'm worried about what EA are thinking in their money grubbing minds right now. I swear, if Mass Effect gets mothballed like Deus Ex, I'll fucking riot (real talk). I am worried also. I don't think the game was a pos like some seem to... But I'm afraid EA won't see the value in continuing stories in the Mass Effect Universe. I blame a lot of this on EA and how they choose to market the game and releasing it the worst time imaginable. Bioware makes my favorite games but don't put it up against Zelda and Horizon. Yes! So agree. Going through the game, my husband and I are wondering why the heck they chose to show certain clips over others that were far more superior. There were so many ways they could have marketed it much better but the IGN angle did more harm than good I think. Plus, I wonder if anyone would realize just how epic Horizon would turn out (seriously love that game). Though I didn't follow the pre-release rumblings aside from E3, it seemed like a wild card in the new gen world.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2017 17:03:24 GMT
The amazing part is not that people are still butthurt about the ending five years later. But that they think they can still somehow convince Bioware to change it.
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Post by ClarkKent on Mar 28, 2017 17:43:18 GMT
Go the Uncharted route
-Release a remaster of the original trilogy, in it's exact form, changing it would only muddle things
-ditch the Andromeda brand
-Make a Mass Effect 4 and make the destroy and Shepard waking up ending canon
-market the game as a swan song to the trilogy
done
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 28, 2017 18:24:15 GMT
That's not a bad plan. We can have the geth canonically destroyed at Rannoch so it isn't Shepard's fault.
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 28, 2017 18:34:18 GMT
Bwahaha. Thread is ridiculous. You just want them to change the endings. Not going to happen. Endings were as intended. I don't even use the EC. I very much like the original endings. This isn't aobut me, it's about getting the Mass Effect franchise back on its track.
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Post by Psychevore on Mar 28, 2017 18:40:03 GMT
Bwahaha. Thread is ridiculous. You just want them to change the endings. Not going to happen. Endings were as intended. I don't even use the EC. I very much like the original endings. This isn't aobut me, it's about getting the Mass Effect franchise back on its track. I think it's on track just fine. I wonder, have you, or any of the other people here that seem to have made it their life's goal to bitch about Mass Effect, ever considered that the game just might not be for you? You know, like with bands. Their old stuff is great, their new stuff is 'meh' in your opinion, but other people seem to love it. That's when you move on. Move on.
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 28, 2017 18:44:05 GMT
I don't even use the EC. I very much like the original endings. This isn't aobut me, it's about getting the Mass Effect franchise back on its track. I think it's on track just fine. I wonder, have you, or any of the other people here that seem to have made it their life's goal to bitch about Mass Effect, ever considered that the game just might not be for you? You know, like with bands. Their old stuff is great, their new stuff is 'meh' in your opinion, but other people seem to love it. That's when you move on. Move on. You should stop presuming things and being narrow minded. I like Andromeda, I'm 30 hours in and having a great time. It doesn't change anything of what I said however.
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Post by Psychevore on Mar 28, 2017 18:47:52 GMT
I think it's on track just fine. I wonder, have you, or any of the other people here that seem to have made it their life's goal to bitch about Mass Effect, ever considered that the game just might not be for you? You know, like with bands. Their old stuff is great, their new stuff is 'meh' in your opinion, but other people seem to love it. That's when you move on. Move on. You should stop presuming things and being narrow minded. I like Andromeda, I'm 30 hours in and having a great time. It doesn't change anything of what I said however. Ah, so that's why you called the game a joke and lied about the game not selling well (it's actually topping the charts right now). Because you actually like it. Maybe if you say it a few more times you'll believe it yourself.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 28, 2017 18:51:36 GMT
Honestly, if I was looking to add any kind of [what I feel to be] improvements to the ending without making drastic changes, I'd add an extra state to the relays where they can remain intact at a certain EMS level in any ending, the Normandy would either crash on nameless garden world or make it to the rendezvous point, and the rubble breath scene before the credits would suddenly be illuminated in a searchlight accompanied by shuttle noise. It would leave the ending mostly intact with just a smidge of variety.
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 28, 2017 18:55:53 GMT
You should stop presuming things and being narrow minded. I like Andromeda, I'm 30 hours in and having a great time. It doesn't change anything of what I said however. Ah, so that's why you called the game a joke and lied about the game not selling well (it's actually topping the charts right now). Because you actually like it. No. Because I can recognize its many objective flaws: massive technical flaws, weak writing, bad creative decisions and overall lack of vision. I can still enjoy it however, just like I can enjoy many other average games out there. And MEA is not selling well at all. Being behind ME3 and especially ME2 is quite bad. Not to mention two releases this year were bigger than MEA, a new IP and another average game.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Mar 28, 2017 19:03:26 GMT
The best way to save the franchise is not to remake 5-10 year old games and change the endings. More people are becoming gamers every day. The larger percentage of gamers don't give a shit about your endings from 5 years ago. They want new stuff. The remaster with new endings might attract some of those who played the OT, but probably not a ton of new gamers.
The best way to"save" the series is to continue on where we are now and learn from "mistakes" made in MEA. Much more polish on animations and the like, better quality side quests, much more polish for glitches, etc. Keep what MANY people are loving. Fast, smooth combat. Beautiful open world. Exciting new setting. Introduce more aliens in the next installment. Make more meaningful choices available. But just keep going.
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Post by Mythgar on Mar 28, 2017 19:04:44 GMT
Ah, so that's why you called the game a joke and lied about the game not selling well (it's actually topping the charts right now). Because you actually like it. No. Because I can recognize its many objective flaws: massive technical flaws, weak writing, bad creative decisions and overall lack of vision. I can still enjoy it however, just like I can enjoy many other average games out there. And MEA is not selling well at all. Being behind ME3 and especially ME2 is quite bad. Not to mention two releases this year were bigger than MEA, a new IP and another average game. The moment things like writing, creativity and vision become objectively bad or good is the moment creativity dies. Those things will always be subjective, and they NEED to be subjective.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Mar 28, 2017 19:22:08 GMT
Yeah OP is full of crap we don't even know what the sales figures are yet and no they ain't changing the ending to a FIVE YEAR OLD game.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 28, 2017 20:05:32 GMT
No. Because I can recognize its many objective flaws: massive technical flaws, weak writing, bad creative decisions and overall lack of vision. I can still enjoy it however, just like I can enjoy many other average games out there. This part of the argument would have been more convincing if your original proposal had been directed at these factors. But it wasn't. If anything, you asked for less vision, not more vision.
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 28, 2017 20:39:57 GMT
No. Because I can recognize its many objective flaws: massive technical flaws, weak writing, bad creative decisions and overall lack of vision. I can still enjoy it however, just like I can enjoy many other average games out there. And MEA is not selling well at all. Being behind ME3 and especially ME2 is quite bad. Not to mention two releases this year were bigger than MEA, a new IP and another average game. The moment things like writing, creativity and vision become objectively bad or good is the moment creativity dies. Those things will always be subjective, and they NEED to be subjective. They are subjective to some degree, but there are also widely accepted rules for good writing. One of the more appalling blunders was how much of the new squad's dialogue consisted of describing their own personality rather than demonstrating it, especially early on. That's basic violation of show don't tell.
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Post by Mythgar on Mar 28, 2017 20:56:11 GMT
The moment things like writing, creativity and vision become objectively bad or good is the moment creativity dies. Those things will always be subjective, and they NEED to be subjective. They are subjective to some degree, but there are also widely accepted rules for good writing. One of the more appalling blunders was how much of the new squad's dialogue consisted of describing their own personality rather than demonstrating it, especially early on. That's basic violation of show don't tell. Whether there is a "widely accepted rule" or not is irrelevant. Majority does not determine objectively good or bad things, that would just mean that more people have the opinion (subjective) that it is a bad style. There is no factual evidence to back up good or bad artistry other than what people seem to like, which is not objectivity, that is subjectivity. Perhaps you could argue something had objectively bad writing because it was arguing a primary theme in its medium (movie, book, game) that is factually false, but even then perhaps the writer is simply trying to make some point through a metaphor of some sort. My point here is that if you don't like it, that's fine and perhaps you are in the majority in that mindset, but if someone else DOES like it, you have no facts to back yourself up in telling them that they are OBJECTIVELY wrong. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 28, 2017 21:03:51 GMT
They are subjective to some degree, but there are also widely accepted rules for good writing. One of the more appalling blunders was how much of the new squad's dialogue consisted of describing their own personality rather than demonstrating it, especially early on. That's basic violation of show don't tell. Whether there is a "widely accepted rule" or not is irrelevant. Majority does not determine objectively good or bad things, that would just mean that more people have the opinion (subjective) that it is a bad style. There is no factual evidence to back up good or bad artistry other than what people seem to like, which is not objectivity, that is subjectivity. Perhaps you could argue something had objectively bad writing because it was arguing a primary theme in its medium (movie, book, game) that is factually false, but even then perhaps the writer is simply trying to make some point through a metaphor of some sort. My point here is that if you don't like it, that's fine and perhaps you are in the majority in that mindset, but if someone else DOES like it, you have no facts to back yourself up in telling them that they are OBJECTIVELY wrong. Different strokes for different folks and all that. I can't tell someone they're wrong to like it. People enjoy things that aren't great all the time, myself included. I can tell them that by most common writing standards it has serious problems. Art may be subjective, but the idea that something can't have objective flaws is nonsensical. Writing standards do exist and perhaps the most basic and widely accepted rule is that showing is more effective than telling in most situations, especially when it comes to giving life to a character. That's a grade school level rule. You can call all these standards subjective and ignore them, but they won't go away and it will still be a flaw. It might not bother you very much, and that's perfectly fine, but I do not believe you honestly prefer characters to robotically state their personalities rather than demonstrate them.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 28, 2017 21:08:21 GMT
Ah, so that's why you called the game a joke and lied about the game not selling well (it's actually topping the charts right now). Because you actually like it. No. Because I can recognize its many objective flaws: massive technical flaws, weak writing, bad creative decisions and overall lack of vision. I can still enjoy it however, just like I can enjoy many other average games out there. And MEA is not selling well at all. Being behind ME3 and especially ME2 is quite bad. Not to mention two releases this year were bigger than MEA, a new IP and another average game. But you said the game is a joke and the list of things you've mentioned are subjective
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Post by SofNascimento on Mar 28, 2017 21:41:19 GMT
No. Because I can recognize its many objective flaws: massive technical flaws, weak writing, bad creative decisions and overall lack of vision. I can still enjoy it however, just like I can enjoy many other average games out there. This part of the argument would have been more convincing if your original proposal had been directed at these factors. But it wasn't. If anything, you asked for less vision, not more vision. It was not directed at these factors because the goal is not to fix Andromeda. You can't do that anymore. You can fix some technical issues with patches and release a few DLCs, something like DA2. And I definitely didn't asked for less vision. Remastering the trilogy is a short term measure. Just to recover the Mass Effect franchise from the ground."Then, you give Mass Effect to a very talented group of people and let them decide where to go from there." And obviously this is where a great vision for the future of the franchise would come in.
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Post by psychomunkay on Mar 28, 2017 21:55:49 GMT
My favorite part is the poetic irony of it all.
People are very upset at a company for destroying something they created that was loved.
It's very interesting to me how involved gamers feel, when truly - your involvement is the equivalent of the guy that watches the football game screaming at the TV and using words like, "C'mon guys, WE have this!" or "WE WON!" but when they lose..."YOU LOSERS, WAKE UP!".
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Post by Mythgar on Mar 28, 2017 22:05:17 GMT
Whether there is a "widely accepted rule" or not is irrelevant. Majority does not determine objectively good or bad things, that would just mean that more people have the opinion (subjective) that it is a bad style. There is no factual evidence to back up good or bad artistry other than what people seem to like, which is not objectivity, that is subjectivity. Perhaps you could argue something had objectively bad writing because it was arguing a primary theme in its medium (movie, book, game) that is factually false, but even then perhaps the writer is simply trying to make some point through a metaphor of some sort. My point here is that if you don't like it, that's fine and perhaps you are in the majority in that mindset, but if someone else DOES like it, you have no facts to back yourself up in telling them that they are OBJECTIVELY wrong. Different strokes for different folks and all that. I can't tell someone they're wrong to like it. People enjoy things that aren't great all the time, myself included. I can tell them that by most common writing standards it has serious problems. Art may be subjective, but the idea that something can't have objective flaws is nonsensical. Writing standards do exist and perhaps the most basic and widely accepted rule is that showing is more effective than telling in most situations, especially when it comes to giving life to a character. That's a grade school level rule. You can call all these standards subjective and ignore them, but they won't go away and it will still be a flaw. It might not bother you very much, and that's perfectly fine, but I do not believe you honestly prefer characters to robotically state their personalities rather than demonstrate them. I agree with most of your points, and we probably agree in general. I am not stating that I personally like or dislike these characters and the way they present themselves, and that is not the point I'm trying to make. The objective flaws in a game would be things like animation issues, bugs, framerate, and things such as that, as they can factually be improved upon to the point where they do not exist anymore. Writing, and other such things cannot be factually improved, they can only be improved based on what a common consensus might be, which again, is not objectivity as it is not based on facts. I have no issue with people perhaps saying that a majority think a certain style of writing or dialogue is better, but I do take issue when people say that a certain style of writing or dialogue is objectively better, because that requires facts, and art cannot be factually proven to be bad or good, it merely comes down to preferences, even if those preferences are ruled by majority.
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Post by Cannibal on Mar 28, 2017 22:22:08 GMT
So Andromeda became a joke, isn't selling well and its lasting lagacy will be of a broken game. Not much you can do about that now, but the good news is there is hope for Mass Effect, EA. Hope inthe form of glorious remaster. Pick the trilogy up, remaster it in 4k and 60fps (or even 30 depending on the console), release it with all DLCs and more important than that CHANGE THE ENDINGS. Yes. That's the only way ME can come back from the grave. If it was up to me, there wouldn't have been a Extended Cut, I actually don't download it and my canon endings for ME3 are the original, but this isn't about me, well, it kinda is, it's about Mass Effect and how awesome it was and how it doesn't deserve to die like this. Rework the whole of priority Earth, make it the Suicide Mission 2.0 it should have been, and make the ending more pleasant. Let people be happy. Talk with Casey Hudson, he is an extremely talented developer, I'm sure he will agree with this. Maybe you can even keep the Starchild and the Reaper nonsense, people would have forgiven it if the aftermath was brighter. They would have then it will still do now. Best part is that this won't cost that much money and you even ask full price (just remember, ALL DLCs!). Do this very simple task right and ME will be back in strength. Then, you give Mass Effect to a very talented group of people and let them decide where to go from there. Easy peasy. I'm not sure whether the post was sarcastic or serious. But if it was sarcastic, it was a valid criticism. Here's hoping the negative reception of Andromeda from some of the old fans will serve as a reality shock for Bioware. They've proved they can make decent games. It's just a matter of stopping this recent trend of trying to turn a profit without investing in what makes the franchise great. The old fans of BioWare have been bitching since Mass Effect 2. Nothing has changed, they haven't gone back to their old ways yet, in fact they move further and further away from those days with each release. And they're going to keep going on that path. Anybody still hoping BioWare will return to their glory days are stuck in a deluded fantasy world, they're going to keep on doing what they've been doing for the last 10 years, ever since EA bought them. Once people realize that, they'll be better off, I knew exactly what I was buying when I bought Andromeda, and I enjoyed my purchase. Is it going to go down as a top 5 BioWare game, no. Maybe not even top 10. But doesn't make it bad, it is, what it is.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 28, 2017 22:56:07 GMT
ME2 wasn't their glory days?
When I joined the original Bio boards, they were full of people complaining about how Bio was moving away from the glory days of BG2. The games change but the complaint stays the same.
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