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Post by shechinah on Mar 30, 2017 14:57:44 GMT
Physicists. There's no actual debate there because there's no proof either one way or the other. Either for or against the definition of a god. That's where science stops, where the evidence stops. And when there's no evidence there to begin with, it's kind'a difficult for science to get off the ground. Now, psuedo-science? Sure, you can debate that all day long. It's just that you won't see any physicists debating psuedo-science unless they are interested in philosophy and expansion of their mind and understanding where you're coming from. So by hardcore scientists you meant yourself? Like I said, you can disagree and try to argue with Suvi if you want. I should note that your opinion is far from uniform in the scientific community . As I mentioned scientists that believe are well-known throughout history including in physics. Some of them have similar view of god in relation to science that Suvi does. I would not be surprised if Suvi's view was inspired by the view of real life scientists.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 30, 2017 14:58:52 GMT
They have done similar before, and it has always ends up a shocking anti climax. Something along the lines of......... We here at Bioware have taken your views plus criticism very seriously, and we know you will be very pleased to hear that we have worked very hard over the past weeks creating a party hat for Drak. We hope that the release of this 32gb patch (large size due to the hat coming in 5 different colours) that we can finally put our fans minds to rest, and show to you all, that this game is not as s*** as you first thought. They are like politicians, They will never answer the questions directly. It's a cute joke, but what are you actually talking about? The only similar incident I can think of is the ME3EC.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 30, 2017 15:03:33 GMT
Physicists. There's no actual debate there because there's no proof either one way or the other. Either for or against the definition of a god. That's where science stops, where the evidence stops. And when there's no evidence there to begin with, it's kind'a difficult for science to get off the ground. Now, psuedo-science? Sure, you can debate that all day long. It's just that you won't see any physicists debating psuedo-science unless they are interested in philosophy and expansion of their mind and understanding where you're coming from. So by hardcore scientists you meant yourself? Like I said, you can disagree and try to argue with Suvi if you want. I should note that your opinion is far from uniform in the scientific community . As I mentioned scientists that believe are well-known throughout history including in physics. Some of them have similar view of god in relation to science that Suvi does. I would not be surprised if Suvi's view was inspired by the view of real life scientists. I don't get the issue with Suvi. It's not like she's space Kent Hovind talking about how the earth is only 6000 years old and man walked with dinosaurs or some nonsense like that.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 30, 2017 15:05:38 GMT
Inc "clarity and closure" DLC...
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 30, 2017 15:10:41 GMT
Oh my god. Way to miss the point. So did I. Looks like everybody else did too. What was your point about Suvi?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 15:11:05 GMT
maybe they're going to announce that all bugs have been fixed and that due to the bugs future DLC will be free?
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Post by Iakus on Mar 30, 2017 15:11:13 GMT
I don't think I understand exactly what you are saying. The absence of proof means that we do not know, not that God may possibly exist. That is belief. When there is no proof that God exists, it doesn't mean that we can say, "hey, maybe he or she exists". It means that, until we have proof, he or she doesn't exist. Do you understand this small but important difference? Also, science is easy to be accepted as real because, well, it works. THis is OT, but I just want to say Absence of evidence=/=evidence of absence. Heck some of the great scientists of history have also been priests. We may now go back to your regularly scheduled "lots of speculation for everyone" already in progress.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 30, 2017 15:23:06 GMT
Anyone else had to think of this? Seriousy though, curious what'll be announced.
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Post by Oswin on Mar 30, 2017 15:36:44 GMT
I guess I shouldn't rush into my NG+ before this announcement then. I was thinking of finishing up my first game and starting another at the weekend but I guess I'll just finish it and drop in some MP time until I see what this is all about.
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Post by goishen on Mar 30, 2017 15:53:45 GMT
Physicists. There's no actual debate there because there's no proof either one way or the other. Either for or against the definition of a god. That's where science stops, where the evidence stops. And when there's no evidence there to begin with, it's kind'a difficult for science to get off the ground. Now, psuedo-science? Sure, you can debate that all day long. It's just that you won't see any physicists debating psuedo-science unless they are interested in philosophy and expansion of their mind and understanding where you're coming from. So by hardcore scientists you meant yourself? Like I said, you can disagree and try to argue with Suvi if you want. I should note that your opinion is far from uniform in the scientific community . As I mentioned scientists that believe are well-known throughout history including in physics. Some of them have similar view of god in relation to science that Suvi does. I would not be surprised if Suvi's view was inspired by the view of real life scientists. /facepalm That's what I was saying all along, and thanks, but I'm far from being a physicist. Did you even watch the video? I'm starting to understand where some of these people are coming from. To reiterate : It is not as big a deal as BioWare tries to make it out to be with Suvi. Make it all into this huge thing, when It's not all that.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 30, 2017 16:01:38 GMT
I'm not sure it counts as a reiteration when you didn't actually make the point the first time.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Mar 30, 2017 16:12:23 GMT
Physicists. There's no actual debate there because there's no proof either one way or the other. Either for or against the definition of a god. That's where science stops, where the evidence stops. And when there's no evidence there to begin with, it's kind'a difficult for science to get off the ground. Now, psuedo-science? Sure, you can debate that all day long. It's just that you won't see any physicists debating psuedo-science unless they are interested in philosophy and expansion of their mind and understanding where you're coming from. So by hardcore scientists you meant yourself? Like I said, you can disagree and try to argue with Suvi if you want. I should note that your opinion is far from uniform in the scientific community . As I mentioned scientists that believe are well-known throughout history including in physics. Some of them have similar view of god in relation to science that Suvi does. I would not be surprised if Suvi's view was inspired by the view of real life scientists. It was weird. OP listed off some legitimate and awkward retcons, then claimed that the presence of religion was a retcon... which it isn't. In fact it's even canon that there are alien followers of earth religions, as of the trilogy.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 30, 2017 16:18:10 GMT
So by hardcore scientists you meant yourself? Like I said, you can disagree and try to argue with Suvi if you want. I should note that your opinion is far from uniform in the scientific community . As I mentioned scientists that believe are well-known throughout history including in physics. Some of them have similar view of god in relation to science that Suvi does. I would not be surprised if Suvi's view was inspired by the view of real life scientists. I don't get the issue with Suvi. It's not like she's space Kent Hovind talking about how the earth is only 6000 years old and man walked with dinosaurs or some nonsense like that. I am what you might call a scientist, working in basic research and I totally get Suvi in this regard. I have colleges who are strong believers. For example, one of my friends in the lab has to start experiments super early on Fridays, especially in winter because he is super strict about observing Jewish religious commandments and he has to finish before Shabbat begins at sundown. I have great conversations with him about kosher food and its significance (and why microscopic organisms don't count ). In ME:A, when having the conversation with Suvi, I was a bit upset that I couldn't really tell her that I am a scientific agnostic, as in, I don't really believe in any kind of established religion and believe them to be the constructs of sentient species but I am open to the idea of forces outside of our own sphere of perception. I guess Ryder will say something similar if you choose "I believe, too" but it's not quite the option I wanted to go with. I think this exact same issue was handled much better in ME1, when Shepard talks to Ashley about religious beliefs. IIRC, you had 5 or 6 options to express Shepard's stance, covering everything from a full fledged religious person through a tolerant or intolerant agnostic all the way to a firm atheist. IMO a very clear example of how BioWare has gutted the dialogue wheel at elast in the ME series (DA does a little better I feel) over the years.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 30, 2017 16:23:25 GMT
Yeah I wish there was an agnostic option myself. It'd be my go to response.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 17:23:02 GMT
Even though we don't know what the announcement is, it seems pretty clear that all those YouTube vids have hit home. I'd be surprised if they've bothered to look at any of the sensational clickbait videos. They have plenty of constructive criticism to review in both published reviews and the thread here where they requested feedback from those playing the trial. There's a difference between acknowledging that there are some problems and dwelling on them to make it sound like everything is worse than it actually is. Also, not everyone is bothered about the same stuff.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 30, 2017 17:28:09 GMT
I'm curious to see what they come up with.
I don't think there's any fix for the facial anims, but I think the more buggy animation issues is going to get fixed pretty soon.
Any fixes to the technical issues the game has is also a must.
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 30, 2017 17:57:26 GMT
Physicists. There's no actual debate there because there's no proof either one way or the other. Either for or against the definition of a god. That's where science stops, where the evidence stops. And when there's no evidence there to begin with, it's kind'a difficult for science to get off the ground. Now, psuedo-science? Sure, you can debate that all day long. It's just that you won't see any physicists debating psuedo-science unless they are interested in philosophy and expansion of their mind and understanding where you're coming from. So by hardcore scientists you meant yourself? Like I said, you can disagree and try to argue with Suvi if you want. I should note that your opinion is far from uniform in the scientific community . As I mentioned scientists that believe are well-known throughout history including in physics. Some of them have similar view of god in relation to science that Suvi does. I would not be surprised if Suvi's view was inspired by the view of real life scientists. I was a physicist before switching career, and I can tell you that character of Suvi is already anachronistic in today's science. Now days religious scientists are very uncommon, and deeply religious scientist are very rare. And that's not to say they don't exist, and I do know some myself, but it's only because they are so rare that they standout from the crowd easily. Also by scientists I mean professionals in hard science with PhD and Post Doc training. While it's true that historically, many, if not most scientists are religious, but it's mostly for historical reason. You got to remember that for most of human history, people took the existence of god or gods for granted, the same way we take the rise of the sun for granted.
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Post by R1Outcast on Mar 30, 2017 17:57:55 GMT
I hope they make Suvi a romance option for straight males...
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Post by alihou on Mar 30, 2017 18:05:03 GMT
So are they making an announcement or releasing the patch? It's unclear to me. If they're releasing a patch I don't mind putting the game away until then. I have the banter issue on ps4 pro. The facial animations and cc are the least important problems for me.
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Post by Wintermist on Mar 30, 2017 18:13:30 GMT
So are they making an announcement or releasing the patch? It's unclear to me. If they're releasing a patch I don't mind putting the game away until then. I have the banter issue on ps4 pro. The facial animations and cc are the least important problems for me. All we know is what it said. It's basically "we'll say something now so people can wait until we say something later on, once we can say more". It's basically Soon™ in many words.
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Post by solomace on Mar 30, 2017 18:27:36 GMT
Even though we don't know what the announcement is, it seems pretty clear that all those YouTube vids have hit home. I'd be surprised if they've bothered to look at any of the sensational clickbait videos. They have plenty of constructive criticism to review in both published reviews and the thread here where they requested feedback from those playing the trial. There's a difference between acknowledging that there are some problems and dwelling on them to make it sound like everything is worse than it actually is. Also, not everyone is bothered about the same stuff. And I would be surprised if they haven't looked at some of the vids. Not all are clickbait ones and some do show the flaws in all it's glory. I wouldn't call it dwelling, that's what people would have you believe the pissed off ME3 ending crowd are still doing and that's why they hate the game. I call it hammering and by the looks of it, looks like they're listening. As to what they're actually listening too and what they're going to do, that will be revealed on Tuesday. Not sure how you come to the conclusion that the complaints, vids and threads are making it sound worse than it actually is. The proof is there for you and the rest of the BDF to see, hence why they splashy announcement. If you're happy with a 7/10 game, good for you and tbh I'm jealous as I would love to have played MEA and I think you and the rest of the BDF don't seem to realize that. However it seems a lot aren't happy with a 7/10 game and as someone said, in today's gaming with so many 9s and 10 games out there or coming out, gamers including fan of the series too, don't want to spend the next 100hrs or so playing a 7/10 when they could be playing a 9 or 10 out of 10 game. I did that already with DAI and in all my 40 years of gaming, I've never played a game for over 100hrs and still not be sure whether I liked it or not. Completed it and never gone back to it or the DLC. Possible there was nothing else to play at the time but not sure.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 18:49:35 GMT
I'd be surprised if they've bothered to look at any of the sensational clickbait videos. They have plenty of constructive criticism to review in both published reviews and the thread here where they requested feedback from those playing the trial. There's a difference between acknowledging that there are some problems and dwelling on them to make it sound like everything is worse than it actually is. Also, not everyone is bothered about the same stuff. I wouldn't call it dwelling, that's what people would have you believe the pissed off ME3 ending crowd are still doing and that's why they hate the game. It's been 5 years. If people can't get past the ending of a videogame in that amount of time, they're dwelling. I don't much care what other people would "have me believe". I'm pretty sure they listened to the thoughtful, (mostly) constructive feedback they requested from the trial. I also expect they've read published reviews. Ever hear of creative, sensationalistic editing? Some of the stuff that has been painstakingly screencapped come from moments that go by fast enough in the actual game that many (most?) people would probably not even notice them. Maybe I don't regard it as a 7/10 game? How I would score it remains to be seen, and I won't decide until I've completed at least one full playthrough. Of course, I also know that not every game published is for me. Some of those 9/10 games are complete non-starters for me, as they don't meet my own personal preferences. If MEA isn't for you, don't play it. Move on to one of those 9/10 games.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 30, 2017 19:14:17 GMT
That explains a few things. Ps4 seems to be hit the worst with bugs. PC has had a couple, but I haven't experienced anything like that. Which is why I like PC and XBOXone. PS4 is always the buggiest.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Mar 30, 2017 19:59:05 GMT
So by hardcore scientists you meant yourself? Like I said, you can disagree and try to argue with Suvi if you want. I should note that your opinion is far from uniform in the scientific community . As I mentioned scientists that believe are well-known throughout history including in physics. Some of them have similar view of god in relation to science that Suvi does. I would not be surprised if Suvi's view was inspired by the view of real life scientists. I was a physicist before switching career, and I can tell you that character of Suvi is already anachronistic in today's science. Now days religious scientists are very uncommon, and deeply religious scientist are very rare. And that's not to say they don't exist, and I do know some myself, but it's only because they are so rare that they standout from the crowd easily. Also by scientists I mean professionals in hard science with PhD and Post Doc training. While it's true that historically, many, if not most scientists are religious, but it's mostly for historical reason. You got to remember that for most of human history, people took the existence of god or gods for granted, the same way we take the rise of the sun for granted. This is actually bullshit. (Historian here.) Atheism was practiced and written about in many ancient cultures. Try again. Atheism isn't something that was "discovered" through some modern innovation. Also, how exactly is Suvi 'deeply religious'? She literally just believes in a higher power. That's it.
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Post by alihou on Mar 30, 2017 20:06:16 GMT
That explains a few things. Ps4 seems to be hit the worst with bugs. PC has had a couple, but I haven't experienced anything like that. Which is why I like PC and XBOXone. PS4 is always the buggiest. It's been an utter mess... I literally bought a ps4 pro specifically for this game. Bugs upon bugs.
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