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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 2, 2017 10:22:33 GMT
It is kind of funny SAM acts like a Geth.
I wonder if Alec stole him.
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Post by mordivier on Apr 2, 2017 10:53:56 GMT
I'm inclined to think it is the original Shadow Broker...the one that was in existence before the Yawg in ME2. Perfect character to introduce...good with money/investments/manipulation and very information oriented and absolutely seems to hate anyone getting close to knowing who they/she/he/it really is.
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CTPhipps
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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 2, 2017 11:04:50 GMT
That would really demean the real Shadow Broker, who was a great character.
I think the Geth might be good candidates.
The only thing going against that is the fact they wouldn't want to murder Jien.
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Post by valkyriesr2 on Apr 2, 2017 11:18:03 GMT
The Shadow Broker.
Not the Yagh we killed in ME2. But the Shadow Broker that captured the Yagh as a pet, and then covered his tracks when he left by making it seeem like the Yagh had killed him and taken over the show. Why fund the Iniatitve? Because he was running scared of the Reapers, and he came with the Nexus to Andromeda. Upon arrival he wanted to seize power, and had a thug of his kill Garson. What happenend after that is difficult to know, but he might have had his or her plans interrupted by the Scourge, or he might have tried using the uprising as an attempt to take over (and failed). We'll see in a DLC most likely.
The Illusive Man does not have a motive, the funds or means to actually be the Benefactor at the time of ME2s end. Lazarus had drained Cerberus too much, and he would never condone alien arks.
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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 2, 2017 11:21:29 GMT
I think the Benefactor is actually a group of people, and that they are people we don't know about yet. To give a comparison, I'm thinking the Benefactor is like the Illuminati from the Deus Ex franchise. I don't think it is TIM. Too much, both ingame and metagame, goes against him being involved. Now if I am right and the Benefactor is a group of people in the shadows I can see TIM having been a member, but he focused on other things than the rest did. The problem with that is Cerberus IS the Illuminati of Mass Effect. It's a corporate-scientific alliance with spies and terrorist cyborgs in its employ trying to advance humanity while increasing its own power. You don't need two. Other options are: * Ambassador Udina * Admiral Hackett * The Citadel Council when it turns out they actually believed you but decided to sit on it. But my favorite? The Geth.
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Dean The Not-so Young
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Post by Dean The Not-so Young on Apr 2, 2017 11:55:39 GMT
Cerberus and TIM is the most likely, if it's someone from the original trilogy. Whoever it is needs to (a) be rich, ( not mind not getting a return on investment, and (c) be motivated enough by the Reapers to expect failure and plan accordingly, while (d) not minding breaking many laws along the way. That removes most corporations, governments, and legitimate actors. Groups we can (probably) write off are the Shadow Broker and the Council. The Broker was profit-driven, and while he certainly would have been aware there's no indication he tried to sneak aboard the Arcs. (Or could have.) Since the Broker was fundamentally selfish, philanthropy of this sort is unlikely. The Council, on the other hand, is a mix of 'didn't take the threat seriously' and 'if they'd backed it, they probably wouldn't have gone along with the AI.' While it's always a question of how much the Council did care, it's apparent from ME3 that the Asari Councilor's preparations for 'continuity of civilization' began after Thessia's fall. So at least she's late on the party, and considering the Council's serious concerns about AI, they'd be a bit less likely to go along with the SAM plan without a clear and compelling need... which there wasn't. TIM and Cerberus at least meet the profile requirements. Money? Check, though how much is always handwaved by plot. More importantly is that TIM has ties with businesses and alien actors, so that he could network them to support an idea in ways he might not be able to tap them for money for Cerberus direct. But what TIM really meets is the ideological willingness to spend huge funds without financial returns, the ideological mindset of survival no matter the cost, and most of all a recognition of the Reapers early enough to matter. Since the Andromeda initiative starts even before ME2, TIM can even avoid the Lazarus project handwave of spending money before money was short for a time. Just about the only other individual from the original trilogy to meet the scope of things is the Dalatrass, the Salarian leader. While her view on the Reapers is in question, she'd definitely have the resources and subterfuge to support the Initiative both legally and illegally. There's not much supporting this besides capability, but not much against it either.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 2, 2017 12:36:21 GMT
Cerberus and TIM is the most likely, if it's someone from the original trilogy. Whoever it is needs to (a) be rich, ( not mind not getting a return on investment, and (c) be motivated enough by the Reapers to expect failure and plan accordingly, while (d) not minding breaking many laws along the way. That removes most corporations, governments, and legitimate actors. Groups we can (probably) write off are the Shadow Broker and the Council. The Broker was profit-driven, and while he certainly would have been aware there's no indication he tried to sneak aboard the Arcs. (Or could have.) Since the Broker was fundamentally selfish, philanthropy of this sort is unlikely. The Council, on the other hand, is a mix of 'didn't take the threat seriously' and 'if they'd backed it, they probably wouldn't have gone along with the AI.' While it's always a question of how much the Council did care, it's apparent from ME3 that the Asari Councilor's preparations for 'continuity of civilization' began after Thessia's fall. So at least she's late on the party, and considering the Council's serious concerns about AI, they'd be a bit less likely to go along with the SAM plan without a clear and compelling need... which there wasn't. TIM and Cerberus at least meet the profile requirements. Money? Check, though how much is always handwaved by plot. More importantly is that TIM has ties with businesses and alien actors, so that he could network them to support an idea in ways he might not be able to tap them for money for Cerberus direct. But what TIM really meets is the ideological willingness to spend huge funds without financial returns, the ideological mindset of survival no matter the cost, and most of all a recognition of the Reapers early enough to matter. Since the Andromeda initiative starts even before ME2, TIM can even avoid the Lazarus project handwave of spending money before money was short for a time. Just about the only other individual from the original trilogy to meet the scope of things is the Dalatrass, the Salarian leader. While her view on the Reapers is in question, she'd definitely have the resources and subterfuge to support the Initiative both legally and illegally. There's not much supporting this besides capability, but not much against it either. I agree. Also, the Benefactor was quite interested in SAM. TIM loves AI research, and an AI that's designed to heal people might be extra interesting to him. Who knows, SAM could've been used to wake up Shepard. The early sequence of Ryder waking from the dead is very similar to Shepard waking up from the dead.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 2, 2017 12:54:00 GMT
Its a question of which Broker.
Liara or Yaghy bear.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 2, 2017 13:23:30 GMT
Regarding TIM, I'm still waiting for his reason to save other species.
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Post by laxian on Apr 2, 2017 13:49:01 GMT
For those who completely unlocked Alec Ryder's memories, we learned a bit about the Andromeda Initiative's true goals and the motivations behind the project. Beyond the obvious connection that the folks funding the project were aware of the inevitable Reaper War, they also had its founder, Jien Garson, assassinated for unknown reasons. Better yet, the game did not provide us with any idea who the Benefactor could be. I'm still going to hold on to my theory that it's the Illusive Man. Who else would have the money, the resources, and all the information on the Reapers? It's always possible it's a new character, but there honestly weren't that many people in the Milky Way aware of the Reaper threat. Not to mention, not many even took Commander Shepard seriously at that time. Any thoughts on who this Benefactor is? This person's identity is clearly going to play a role in a sequel game. Is it only one person? - sure there might be one secret benefactor, but I doubt that (the A.I. is fucking expensive - reviving Shep was probably cheaper than building the Nexus (!), not to mention the Arks, the Scout-Ships etc...the A.I. doesn't use all that much stock-stuff except Shuttles and Weapons, everything else? Custom made!)! I think a lot of people "invested" (as in donated!) money to that, from TIM (who doesn't want all the eggs in one basket!) to the Shadow Broker (maybe even the original - the one before the "pet" (the Yagh!) took over - like somebody suggested!), to groups like STG, some SPECTREs etc. Hell, some wealthy people might have even come along (we don't know who's still in stasis etc. - I'd love a crew manifest containing the most interesting people who came along!) greetings LAX
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Apr 2, 2017 13:51:00 GMT
Regarding TIM, I'm still waiting for his reason to save other species. You have been given reasons,off the top of my head. (1) the funding required for this project is enormous,they would have had to include other species to raise the amount of capitol needed ie foriegn investors (2) Cerberus was never about the eradication of all alien life,it was about putting Humanity first (3)If they said the Andromeda Initiative was humans only it would make it a little obvious who was funding it (4)Who would win in a fight between a Unicorn and a Narwhale,i include this random question as i know you will dismiss the others without a second thought.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 2, 2017 13:59:19 GMT
Regarding TIM, I'm still waiting for his reason to save other species. You have been given reasons,off the top of my head. (1) the funding required for this project is enormous,they would have had to include other species to raise the amount of capitol needed ie foriegn investors (2) Cerberus was never about the eradication of all alien life,it was about putting Humanity first (3)If they said the Andromeda Initiative was humans only it would make it a little obvious who was funding it (4)Who would win in a fight between a Unicorn and a Narwhale,i include this random question as i know you will dismiss the others without a second thought. (1) It is enormous, but Benefactor covered most of it and nothing states otherwise. (2) Not taking someone =\= eradication, taking other species just means less space for humans and doesn't give them any benefits. (3) Obvious for players? "Because it could ruin the plot-twist" is a reason good enough for you? (4) If you can't give any substantial reason because I can "dismiss" it, why even bother to reply?
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Apr 2, 2017 14:05:54 GMT
You have been given reasons,off the top of my head. (1) the funding required for this project is enormous,they would have had to include other species to raise the amount of capitol needed ie foriegn investors (2) Cerberus was never about the eradication of all alien life,it was about putting Humanity first (3)If they said the Andromeda Initiative was humans only it would make it a little obvious who was funding it (4)Who would win in a fight between a Unicorn and a Narwhale,i include this random question as i know you will dismiss the others without a second thought. (1) It is enormous, but Benefactor covered most of it and nothing states otherwise. (2) Not taking someone =\= eradication, taking other species just means less space for humans and doesn't give them any benefits. (3) Obvious for players? "Because it could ruin the plot-twist" is a reason good enough for you? (4) If you can't give any substantial reason because I can "dismiss" it, why even bother to reply? My rebuttal to your rebuttal (1)You are making an assumption and passing it off as fact,the main issue here is noone knows the identity of the Benefactor,is it a single person or an organization,is it someone we know from previous games or a new antagonist (2)No,it doesn't,each of the main species constructed their own ark and contributed jointed to the construction of the Nexus(go back to the Andomeda initiative videos it explains this) (3)Not just players,but the council,spectres and many other people aware of Cerberus(the organization does have enemies) (4) That was a light hearted joke,don't be such a grump
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Post by Petroshenko on Apr 2, 2017 14:23:26 GMT
Pre-Yahg Shadow Broker makes just most sense. He has been established, had knowledge, resources etc. Anyone else would be out-of-nowhere option, or one that really pushes the suspension of disbelief.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 2, 2017 14:36:56 GMT
(1) It is enormous, but Benefactor covered most of it and nothing states otherwise. (2) Not taking someone =\= eradication, taking other species just means less space for humans and doesn't give them any benefits. (3) Obvious for players? "Because it could ruin the plot-twist" is a reason good enough for you? (4) If you can't give any substantial reason because I can "dismiss" it, why even bother to reply? My rebuttal to your rebuttal (1)You are making an assumption and passing it off as fact,the main issue here is noone knows the identity of the Benefactor,is it a single person or an organization,is it someone we know from previous games or a new antagonist (2)No,it doesn't,each of the main species constructed their own ark and contributed jointed to the construction of the Nexus(go back to the Andomeda initiative videos it explains this) (3)Not just players,but the council,spectres and many other people aware of Cerberus(the organization does have enemies) (4) That was a light hearted joke,don't be such a grump (1) If Benefactor is collective entity, then how could it still be called Ceberus? (2) Initiative videos are in-game knowledge for colonists, we already know that it lies about "various investors" because Jien in fact couldn't get any and run out of her own money. Different Arks are built in different places, but it's never stated that funding goes from these species. You don't expect me to believe that Migrant Fleet could afford to throw money on a brand-new dreadnought only to send it away? (3) And all these organization are known for doing nothing even when all evidences were presented. Involving other species in such project would only get more attention from them. (4) Discussing fictional lore is a serious business.
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Post by Fredward on Apr 2, 2017 14:50:02 GMT
It's the Hyperion's pilot. You can talk with her but she's not involved with anything *X-File noise*
Nah but for real this has me the most curious of all the obviously tagged "DLC HERE!" loose threads. I actually felt uncomfortable on the Nexus after learning about the Benefactor's involvement, felt like being watched. I'd be down with anything but Cerberus, probably a vain hope. It'd be poor form, or at least anticlimactic, if it's revealed to be someone we've never seen on the station before. If it is Cerberus it's safe to assume the person is 1) human and 2) unlikely to be satisfied in a non-leadership position. Which would mean Ms My-face-is-tired? I kinda like her though.
IT'S THE BARKEEPER. IT'S ALWAYS THE BARKEEPER. No, wait. IT'S THE RUSSIAN GUY WORKING FOR ADDISON. NO WAIT. IT'S AVINA.
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Apr 2, 2017 15:11:43 GMT
My rebuttal to your rebuttal (1)You are making an assumption and passing it off as fact,the main issue here is noone knows the identity of the Benefactor,is it a single person or an organization,is it someone we know from previous games or a new antagonist (2)No,it doesn't,each of the main species constructed their own ark and contributed jointed to the construction of the Nexus(go back to the Andomeda initiative videos it explains this) (3)Not just players,but the council,spectres and many other people aware of Cerberus(the organization does have enemies) (4) That was a light hearted joke,don't be such a grump (1) If Benefactor is collective entity, then how could it still be called Ceberus? (2) Initiative videos are in-game knowledge for colonists, we already know that it lies about "various investors" because Jien in fact couldn't get any and run out of her own money. Different Arks are built in different places, but it's never stated that funding goes from these species. You don't expect me to believe that Migrant Fleet could afford to throw money on a brand-new dreadnought only to send it away? (3) And all these organization are known for doing nothing even when all evidences were presented. Involving other species in such project would only get more attention from them. (4) Discussing fictional lore is a serious business. (1)Way to avoid answering the question and asking a question in it's place.(Cerberus for your information is a collection of military industrial complexes,power brokers and corporations under the auspices of TIM) (2)It doesn't lie about the investors at all,they had investors,they had a financial shortfall the MB made that shortfall up,running out of money does not mean you have no investors it just means you need more. It states each race are building each of the sleeping ships themselves,this means they are most likely financing it from their end, You are guessing about the migrant fleet,you are fully in your rights to do so,but please don't pass that off as an absolute fact! (3)Post these so called evidences,You keep going on about evidence,i have yet to see you provide a single piece of relevant evidence. (4)No it's not,it's just an excuse for pettyness,rise above it and smile!
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 2, 2017 15:34:01 GMT
My own take is this.
Tl;dr
It has to be a group and there are only a few with the resources and access to intel.
New group of old faces.
Its easy to say that the benefactor is a person. But I think that is the least likely scenario, this comes down to knowledge.
Somebody knew.
Somebody knew Garson needed help and when she needed it most.
Somebody knew Alec needed help and when he needed it most.
Somebody knew how to get them both what they needed when they needed it most.
This all points to resources and intel.
The broker is the wild card not the suspect. Through the Broker anyone can find out anything, anyone can get anything. So anyone could have access to the information, provided they can pay for it.
So who has the resources and who could keep it a secret?
Theres only a few groups but I doubt it was Cerberus.
Best money is on a new group, people like Garrus's father Anderson and Hackett, realising what was coming theres no mention of the other Arks getting messages from home like the Human ark did.
Might even be human centric.
The Nexus as well seems unaware.
Did Garson know about the reapers?
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 2, 2017 15:41:43 GMT
(1) If Benefactor is collective entity, then how could it still be called Ceberus? (2) Initiative videos are in-game knowledge for colonists, we already know that it lies about "various investors" because Jien in fact couldn't get any and run out of her own money. Different Arks are built in different places, but it's never stated that funding goes from these species. You don't expect me to believe that Migrant Fleet could afford to throw money on a brand-new dreadnought only to send it away? (3) And all these organization are known for doing nothing even when all evidences were presented. Involving other species in such project would only get more attention from them. (4) Discussing fictional lore is a serious business. (1)Way to avoid answering the question and asking a question in it's place.(Cerberus for your information is a collection of military industrial complexes,power brokers and corporations under the auspices of TIM) (2)It doesn't lie about the investors at all,they had investors,they had a financial shortfall the MB made that shortfall up,running out of money does not mean you have no investors it just means you need more. It states each race are building each of the sleeping ships themselves,this means they are most likely financing it from their end, You are guessing about the migrant fleet,you are fully in your rights to do so,but please don't pass that off as an absolute fact! (3)Post these so called evidences,You keep going on about evidence,i have yet to see you provide a single piece of relevant evidence. (4)No it's not,it's just an excuse for pettyness,rise above it and smile! (1) Merely clarifying the discussion. "noone knows the identity of the Benefactor,is it a single person or an organization,is it someone we know from previous games or a new antagonist" sounded like you averted from Cerberus part. (2) It seems you didn't pay attention to the quest about Jien's murder. AI was a failure until Benefactor showed up, Jien says that herself. (3) Evidences of what? That Cerberus can run all kinds of things unnoticed? Dead Reaper project, Overlord project, Sanctuary, entire military fleet built on Alliance shipyards - nobody bats an eye. (4) I wouldn't be able to look into a mirror if I'd fell so low to not take ME lore seriously.
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Apr 2, 2017 15:52:50 GMT
(1)Way to avoid answering the question and asking a question in it's place.(Cerberus for your information is a collection of military industrial complexes,power brokers and corporations under the auspices of TIM) (2)It doesn't lie about the investors at all,they had investors,they had a financial shortfall the MB made that shortfall up,running out of money does not mean you have no investors it just means you need more. It states each race are building each of the sleeping ships themselves,this means they are most likely financing it from their end, You are guessing about the migrant fleet,you are fully in your rights to do so,but please don't pass that off as an absolute fact! (3)Post these so called evidences,You keep going on about evidence,i have yet to see you provide a single piece of relevant evidence. (4)No it's not,it's just an excuse for pettyness,rise above it and smile! (1) Merely clarifying the discussion. "noone knows the identity of the Benefactor,is it a single person or an organization,is it someone we know from previous games or a new antagonist" sounded like you averted from Cerberus part. (2) It seems you didn't pay attention to the quest about Jien's murder. AI was a failure until Benefactor showed up, Jien says that herself. (3) Evidences of what? That Cerberus can run all kinds of things unnoticed? Dead Reaper project, Overlord project, Sanctuary, entire military fleet built on Alliance shipyards - nobody bats an eye. (4) I wouldn't be able to look into a mirror if I'd fell so low to not take ME lore seriously. (1)I was playing devils advocate,i am not so dogmatic in my opinions that they are set in stone. (2)I did pay attention to it,she never lied directly anyone,possibly a lie by omission but not a direct lie.She was more concerned about not knowing the identity(i thought the BM went to Alec with the AI thing?) which organization in Council space had a fully working AI.....was it maybe,oh i don't know CERBERUS. (3)You are the claiming proof again you did not provide what was asked,all you have done is proved my point again,by pointing out the resources Cerberus has in shipbuilding(useful for sleeper ships and AI experience for the SAMS) (4)I hope that is sarcasm, otherwise you need to get out more.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Apr 2, 2017 17:47:55 GMT
Merging to existing thread...
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Post by canuckgamer on Apr 2, 2017 20:06:25 GMT
Merging to existing thread... which one?
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FireAndBlood
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FireAndBlood on Apr 2, 2017 20:46:37 GMT
Up until the reveal that Jien Garson was murdered I was convinced the Benefactor was Anderson and/or Hackett since they were the only ones in the Alliance who believed Shepard and that they used humanity's new clout after ME1 to secretly fund the Initiative. I really hope it isn't TIM and Cerberus.
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Post by caladrius on Apr 2, 2017 20:55:02 GMT
I agree with those that think the original (pre-Yahg) Shadow Broker makes the most sense. They were incredibly mysterious. Nobody ever really understood how they got the resources to do what they did. The Yahg may have just been a body guard or assistant to them and they gave him the ship when they left. There's never any evidence they died. To me, it makes more sense than Cerberus.
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canuckgamer
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by canuckgamer on Apr 2, 2017 23:06:27 GMT
I made a post about a note I found in the exultation facility that really makes me think its not Cerberus for the first time.
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