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Post by hathur on Mar 30, 2017 21:56:53 GMT
Ugh.. well so far I'm enjoying most of the writing in the game.. from an entertainment perspective anyway... but good god the murder mystery of the station was written by a brain damaged infant who has no concept of law or justice in even the most barbaric of societies.
So the Turian tried to commit murder... and failed (kett murdered the victim, turian's shot missed.. but he still fired and tried to kill his victim).. the fact his shot missed is 100% irrelevant in the eyes of any juvenile criminal justice system on earth today... trying to murder someone is still a crime, one does not need to succeed to be guilty or convicted. In most societies it is called "attempted murder" and carries a significant punishment, depending on the nation.
So here we have a Turian in which we have irrefutable evidence in which he attempted to commit murder and then the game posits to present us with 2 options: 1) Exile him (freedom essentially, just not among the AI) or 2) Dismiss all charges and release him, no crime committed.
Honestly this is some of the laziest and dumbest writing I have seen in some time... we're expecting to believe that these highly advanced societies (human, turian, salarian, asari etc) traveled into deep space without a judicial system in place? That is the most implausible thing I've heard.. and that's saying something in a universe that has space magic (biotics). This should not even be an option open to Ryder -- Tann should simply have handed the case over immediately to the court system (which this society absolutely must have, even if it is rudimentary), where the individual would be charged with attempted murder. Considering the evidence, the turian would likely be found guilty and sentenced to some form of punishment (that's up to the court... exile, execution, prison, whatever).
The fact it is left up to Ryder to act as judge jury and executioner in a criminal matter is beyond idiotic... or at the least leaving only 2 options is insufferable (exile or freedom... good god talk about lazy writing.. either way he ends up off the hook for attempted murder).
This quest should just have been deleted from the game, it is embarrassing how poorly it is written and has detracted a bit from an otherwise enjoyable experience.
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CTPhipps
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 30, 2017 22:00:36 GMT
Honestly, I think the attempted murder charge ignores all the circumstances and shows the players being somewhat tone deaf to the situation.
Going "by the book" means he's exiled and that strengthens your enemies and shows you're going to probably not forgive the "crimes" of the Outcasts.
It doesn't bode well, IMHO.
In a frontier survival situation, the book is worthless and the Pathfinder should be the one who decides who lives and dies because that's the way they do it in Council space. Even so, WHAT judicial system? Everyone is dead but Tann, Kesh, and Addison.
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cobalt72
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by cobalt72 on Mar 30, 2017 22:04:08 GMT
There were mitigating circumstances at least in my opinion
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sdzald
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by sdzald on Mar 30, 2017 22:12:40 GMT
Ugh.. well so far I'm enjoying most of the writing in the game.. from an entertainment perspective anyway... but good god the murder mystery of the station was written by a brain damaged infant who has no concept of law or justice in even the most barbaric of societies. ... LOL you just did a GREAT definition of Mr Walters  |
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 31, 2017 4:02:10 GMT
I can see why exile would be a solution whereas execution might not. I'll liken it to the quarian situation where they exile criminals rather than kill them. The child of an exile could still return to the fold even if the parent(s) were made to stay away. With resources so limited and no viable worlds on the horizon (all golden worlds were decidedly coal), it's better to allow exiles to pave a rough path that the AI could potentially follow when they later allow their children "back into the fold".
Agreed that the turian was guilty as can be but I think the idea of having Ryder make a decision is because s/he might be better equipped to decide if they could be productive or not in the long term. Anyway, yeah, it wasn't the best quest out there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 4:19:19 GMT
The issue is he was already imprisoned for murder. It would be a whole new trial to try to charge him for attempted murder. You can exile him for a crime he didn't commit Ir give him a pass (which would be for those who agreed with his intentions) but Tann isn't willing to do another trial and admit he was wrong.
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Archangel
N3
had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 325 Likes: 442
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had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Archangel on Mar 31, 2017 5:10:27 GMT
Ugh.. well so far I'm enjoying most of the writing in the game.. from an entertainment perspective anyway... but good god the murder mystery of the station was written by a brain damaged infant who has no concept of law or justice in even the most barbaric of societies. So the Turian tried to commit murder... and failed (kett murdered the victim, turian's shot missed.. but he still fired and tried to kill his victim).. the fact his shot missed is 100% irrelevant in the eyes of any juvenile criminal justice system on earth today... trying to murder someone is still a crime, one does not need to succeed to be guilty or convicted. In most societies it is called "attempted murder" and carries a significant punishment, depending on the nation. So here we have a Turian in which we have irrefutable evidence in which he attempted to commit murder and then the game posits to present us with 2 options: 1) Exile him (freedom essentially, just not among the AI) or 2) Dismiss all charges and release him, no crime committed. Honestly this is some of the laziest and dumbest writing I have seen in some time... we're expecting to believe that these highly advanced societies (human, turian, salarian, asari etc) traveled into deep space without a judicial system in place? That is the most implausible thing I've heard.. and that's saying something in a universe that has space magic (biotics). This should not even be an option open to Ryder -- Tann should simply have handed the case over immediately to the court system (which this society absolutely must have, even if it is rudimentary), where the individual would be charged with attempted murder. Considering the evidence, the turian would likely be found guilty and sentenced to some form of punishment (that's up to the court... exile, execution, prison, whatever). The fact it is left up to Ryder to act as judge jury and executioner in a criminal matter is beyond idiotic... or at the least leaving only 2 options is insufferable (exile or freedom... good god talk about lazy writing.. either way he ends up off the hook for attempted murder). This quest should just have been deleted from the game, it is embarrassing how poorly it is written and has detracted a bit from an otherwise enjoyable experience. There was a long thread I posted on this last week Here is a synopses of the replies...
Group 1) Agree it's blindingly stupid.
Group 2) The hamster wheel in their heads is going a hundred miles an hour trying to rationalize why it isn't blindingly stupid.
The thread
First Murder...or "In the future attempted murder isn't a thing"
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Post by quyksylvyr on Mar 31, 2017 7:29:15 GMT
There was a long thread I posted on this last week Here is a synopses of the replies...
Group 1) Agree it's blindingly stupid.
Group 2) The hamster wheel in their heads is going a hundred miles an hour trying to rationalize why it isn't blindingly stupid.
The thread
First Murder...or "In the future attempted murder isn't a thing"
Group 1) Everyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid Group 2) Looks at the situation to see maybe why it's at least possible. Personally, this one didn't bother me because it was a unique situation outside of whether it was murder or not, and I'm pretty sure exile was the punishment chosen by the "court system" before the Pathfinder arrived. As one of the witnesses admits, if the friend hadn't been killed, everyone in that squad likely would have been killed by Kett trying to retake the base. I think the Nexus was aware of that in determining the punishment. Of course they couldn't let him just "get away" with disobeying a leader. With limited resources, jail really wasn't an option so you're left with exile or death. The pathfinder isn't actually a judge and jury. It's just the pathfinder can end up granting a writ of clemency. So your choice is to allow the punishment chosen by the judicial system for the murder or grant clemency. Even in the U.S., a president can grant a writ of clemency even though they are not technically part of the judicial process.
P.S. There have been societies throughout the ages who have used exile as a valid form of punishment. |
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Archangel
N3
had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 325 Likes: 442
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had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Archangel on Mar 31, 2017 7:30:25 GMT
There was a long thread I posted on this last week Here is a synopses of the replies...
Group 1) Agree it's blindingly stupid.
Group 2) The hamster wheel in their heads is going a hundred miles an hour trying to rationalize why it isn't blindingly stupid.
The thread
First Murder...or "In the future attempted murder isn't a thing"
Group 1) Everyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid Group 2) Looks at the situation to see maybe why it's at least possible. Personally, this one didn't bother me because it was a unique situation outside of whether it was murder or not, and I'm pretty sure exile was the punishment chosen by the court system before the Pathfinder arrived. As one of the witnesses admits, if the friend hadn't been killed, everyone in that squad likely would have been killed by Kett trying to retake the base. I think the Nexus was aware of that in determining the punishment. Of course they couldn't let him just "get away" with disobeying a leader. With limited resources, jail really wasn't an option so you're left with exile or death. And I'm actually pretty sure the pathfinder isn't actually a judge and jury. It's just the pathfinder can end up granting a writ of clemency. So your choice is to allow the punishment chosen by the judicial system or grant clemency.
Speaking of high speed hamster wheels. |
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ralph2449
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ralphie2449
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Post by ralph2449 on Mar 31, 2017 7:34:50 GMT
I find it funny that they mention that if that chief wasnt killed and was allowed to do his le epic last stand everyone would be dead, the witness says that if not for the Turian killing the chief, they wouldnt survive.
Yet at the end you can only release him based on "lol didnt technically kill him", evena though they tell you that he did the right thing in a way, the chief was a moron and since he wasnt allowed leave, killing him was the only way to escape which also saved the lives of others.
I wouldnt punish such a person, yet the choices are a little limited. I guess they didnt bother much with smaller quests.
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mrobnoxiousuk
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Mar 31, 2017 14:52:12 GMT
The thing that surprises me the most is how quickly all these psychological and physiologically sound people went through the moral event horizon so quickly and became pirates,reavers and cannibals.
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Post by fialka on Mar 31, 2017 16:04:33 GMT
I find it funny that they mention that if that chief wasnt killed and was allowed to do his le epic last stand everyone would be dead, the witness says that if not for the Turian killing the chief, they wouldnt survive. Yet at the end you can only release him based on "lol didnt technically kill him", evena though they tell you that he did the right thing in a way, the chief was a moron and since he wasnt allowed leave, killing him was the only way to escape which also saved the lives of others. I wouldnt punish such a person, yet the choices are a little limited. I guess they didnt bother much with smaller quests. This. Technically he's guilty but I don't let him go for that reason. I let him go because his motive is one I can actually get behind. Were it not for him, way more people, idiot chief included, would be dead. My Pathfinder has had to make similar choices, even if she didn't necessarily pull the trigger (though in a couple cases she did). The thing that surprises me the most is how quickly all these psychological and physiologically sound people went through the moral event horizon so quickly and became pirates,reavers and cannibals. There's actually an explanation for this in the game, but it's easy to miss. There's a couple little side quests on Elaaden that shed light on this: One is a medical explanation (talk to the scavenger in Paradise and the quest will trigger), the other more personal. You help a guy find his sister, and she explains why she becomes what she does. I also see a 'Lord of the Flies' parallel here. Take people away from the familiar and remove the rules, and it brings out the worst in some. Others will follow out of desperation or fear because they don't see another option. |
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Archangel
N3
had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 325 Likes: 442
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had to be me...someone else might have gotten it wrong.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Archangel on Mar 31, 2017 16:10:59 GMT
The thing that surprises me the most is how quickly all these psychological and physiologically sound people went through the moral event horizon so quickly and became pirates,reavers and cannibals. It's the Pax. The G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate that Remnant added to the air processors... |
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mrobnoxiousuk
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 275 Likes: 280
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Mar 31, 2017 16:18:28 GMT
I find it funny that they mention that if that chief wasnt killed and was allowed to do his le epic last stand everyone would be dead, the witness says that if not for the Turian killing the chief, they wouldnt survive. Yet at the end you can only release him based on "lol didnt technically kill him", evena though they tell you that he did the right thing in a way, the chief was a moron and since he wasnt allowed leave, killing him was the only way to escape which also saved the lives of others. I wouldnt punish such a person, yet the choices are a little limited. I guess they didnt bother much with smaller quests. This. Technically he's guilty but I don't let him go for that reason. I let him go because his motive is one I can actually get behind. Were it not for him, way more people, idiot chief included, would be dead. My Pathfinder has had to make similar choices, even if she didn't necessarily pull the trigger (though in a couple cases she did). The thing that surprises me the most is how quickly all these psychological and physiologically sound people went through the moral event horizon so quickly and became pirates,reavers and cannibals. There's actually an explanation for this in the game, but it's easy to miss. There's a couple little side quests on Elaaden that shed light on this: One is a medical explanation (talk to the scavenger in Paradise and the quest will trigger), the other more personal. You help a guy find his sister, and she explains why she becomes what she does. I also see a 'Lord of the Flies' parallel here. Take people away from the familiar and remove the rules, and it brings out the worst in some. Others will follow out of desperation or fear because they don't see another option. I did that quest,i thought it was an Elaaden feature as it is never mentioned on Kadaara |
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Post by fialka on Mar 31, 2017 16:34:33 GMT
This. Technically he's guilty but I don't let him go for that reason. I let him go because his motive is one I can actually get behind. Were it not for him, way more people, idiot chief included, would be dead. My Pathfinder has had to make similar choices, even if she didn't necessarily pull the trigger (though in a couple cases she did). There's actually an explanation for this in the game, but it's easy to miss. There's a couple little side quests on Elaaden that shed light on this: One is a medical explanation (talk to the scavenger in Paradise and the quest will trigger), the other more personal. You help a guy find his sister, and she explains why she becomes what she does. I also see a 'Lord of the Flies' parallel here. Take people away from the familiar and remove the rules, and it brings out the worst in some. Others will follow out of desperation or fear because they don't see another option. I did that quest,i thought it was an Elaaden feature as it is never mentioned on Kadaara Do you mean the one with the scavenger? We basically find out that neural degradation is a possible side effect of cryo. The reason all these people seem crazy is because they are. I imagine that a lot of perfectly well-adjusted people became the raiders and criminals we end up fighting because the wiring in their brain got fucked up from being frozen for 600 years. We actually see hints of this early in the game too. Some of the NPCs mention not feeling like themselves when they wake up in ambient dialogue. As for they guy's sister: She may be well be affected by the above... but it illustrates how this one girl, who used to be some boring assistant in her old life, suddenly had the opportunity to 'be someone,' and her wanting power ruled out over whatever morality might have had. At least that's my interpretation. It's a pretty common trope in stories where people's humanity is tested - post-apocalyptic ones for instance. Things go south, and people who might've played nice when there were rules and structure take advantage of the chaos. |
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sdzald
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 367 Likes: 307
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by sdzald on Mar 31, 2017 16:35:42 GMT
There was a long thread I posted on this last week Here is a synopses of the replies...
Group 1) Agree it's blindingly stupid.
Group 2) The hamster wheel in their heads is going a hundred miles an hour trying to rationalize why it isn't blindingly stupid.
The thread
First Murder...or "In the future attempted murder isn't a thing"
Group 1) Everyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid Group 2) Looks at the situation to see maybe why it's at least possible. Personally, this one didn't bother me because it was a unique situation outside of whether it was murder or not, and I'm pretty sure exile was the punishment chosen by the "court system" before the Pathfinder arrived. As one of the witnesses admits, if the friend hadn't been killed, everyone in that squad likely would have been killed by Kett trying to retake the base. I think the Nexus was aware of that in determining the punishment. Of course they couldn't let him just "get away" with disobeying a leader. With limited resources, jail really wasn't an option so you're left with exile or death. The pathfinder isn't actually a judge and jury. It's just the pathfinder can end up granting a writ of clemency. So your choice is to allow the punishment chosen by the judicial system for the murder or grant clemency. Even in the U.S., a president can grant a writ of clemency even though they are not technically part of the judicial process.
P.S. There have been societies throughout the ages who have used exile as a valid form of punishment. In the original series, if you spent any time talking with Tali you learned that the Quarians had no prisons. If the crime was minor to moderate the person would be given what amounts to house arrest, if it was serious to include things like treason or murder they just exiled them. |
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London
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 220 Likes: 397
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by London on Mar 31, 2017 17:18:52 GMT
As an attorney, I was very frustrated and disappointed by this quest. I get that Andromeda law would not coincide with US law, but it felt lazy that your choices are either to act unethically and suppress evidence, or let him off.
True he could not be convicted of murder, but the evidence would still prove his intent to attempt murder.
It is also unbelievable that the leadership would remove themselves from any decision making and let someone who was pathfinder for all of a week make this decision with no understanding of or training in Andromeda law. He wasn't even present for the original trial and really only has a 5 minute summary of what even happened.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 367 Likes: 307
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by sdzald on Mar 31, 2017 17:43:42 GMT
As an attorney, I was very frustrated and disappointed by this quest. I get that Andromeda law would not coincide with US law, but it felt lazy that your choices are either to act unethically and suppress evidence, or let him off. True he could not be convicted of murder, but the evidence would still prove his intent to attempt murder. It is also unbelievable that the leadership would remove themselves from any decision making and let someone who was pathfinder for all of a week make this decision with no understanding of or training in Andromeda law. He wasn't even present for the original trial and really only has a 5 minute summary of what even happened. But you are basing this opinion off of our modern society. I see the setting as one MUCH closer the wild west then our current society. Resources are very limited and most people are very busy just trying to stay alive, as was the case in the early American West, law enforcement in many cases was the local Sheriff or Marshal and what they said general was the law. Just because the game is based in a Sci-Fi world, and the colonist come from a very structured society does not mean all those niceties come with them. I see it much closer to what you see in the Sean Connery movie Outland, Dodge City in space, if you will. |
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CTPhipps
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 249 Likes: 275
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 31, 2017 17:52:29 GMT
As an attorney, I was very frustrated and disappointed by this quest. I get that Andromeda law would not coincide with US law, but it felt lazy that your choices are either to act unethically and suppress evidence, or let him off. True he could not be convicted of murder, but the evidence would still prove his intent to attempt murder. It is also unbelievable that the leadership would remove themselves from any decision making and let someone who was pathfinder for all of a week make this decision with no understanding of or training in Andromeda law. He wasn't even present for the original trial and really only has a 5 minute summary of what even happened. Just to clarify, the "leadership" is Tann, you realize, right? The man who makes it clear that he wants a guilty verdict but who is willing to let you reopen the case and asks for your advise. It's all on him. Because he's the only leadership LEFT. Addison has no authority on the Nexus. |
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London
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Posts: 220 Likes: 397
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Post by London on Mar 31, 2017 18:25:19 GMT
As an attorney, I was very frustrated and disappointed by this quest. I get that Andromeda law would not coincide with US law, but it felt lazy that your choices are either to act unethically and suppress evidence, or let him off. True he could not be convicted of murder, but the evidence would still prove his intent to attempt murder. It is also unbelievable that the leadership would remove themselves from any decision making and let someone who was pathfinder for all of a week make this decision with no understanding of or training in Andromeda law. He wasn't even present for the original trial and really only has a 5 minute summary of what even happened. But you are basing this opinion off of our modern society. I see the setting as one MUCH closer the wild west then our current society. Resources are very limited and most people are very busy just trying to stay alive, as was the case in the early American West, law enforcement in many cases was the local Sheriff or Marshal and what they said general was the law. Just because the game is based in a Sci-Fi world, and the colonist come from a very structured society does not mean all those niceties come with them. I see it much closer to what you see in the Sean Connery movie Outland, Dodge City in space, if you will. If this is a question of manpower and resources, why have the original trial at all? This is just inconsistent with your point. |
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sdzald
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 367 Likes: 307
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Post by sdzald on Mar 31, 2017 18:50:57 GMT
But you are basing this opinion off of our modern society. I see the setting as one MUCH closer the wild west then our current society. Resources are very limited and most people are very busy just trying to stay alive, as was the case in the early American West, law enforcement in many cases was the local Sheriff or Marshal and what they said general was the law. Just because the game is based in a Sci-Fi world, and the colonist come from a very structured society does not mean all those niceties come with them. I see it much closer to what you see in the Sean Connery movie Outland, Dodge City in space, if you will. If this is a question of manpower and resources, why have the original trial at all? This is just inconsistent with your point. For all we know the original trial was nothing more then bringing him before Tann (Mayor) and Tann being Tann just pronounced him exiled on the spot. Now that a Pathfinder (Sheriff) is town, Tann not wanting to deal with such petty things, gives the Sheriff authority to enforce 'peace' as he sees fit. Don't get me wrong the writing on the quest sucked, as does most writing in this game, thank you Mr Walters, but I have NO problem with the basic premises. |
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Post by London on Mar 31, 2017 19:15:49 GMT
If this is a question of manpower and resources, why have the original trial at all? This is just inconsistent with your point. For all we know the original trial was nothing more then bringing him before Tann (Mayor) and Tann being Tann just pronounced him exiled on the spot. Now that a Pathfinder (Sheriff) is town, Tann not wanting to deal with such petty things, gives the Sheriff authority to enforce 'peace' as he sees fit. Don't get me wrong the writing on the quest sucked, as does most writing in this game, thank you Mr Walters, but I have NO problem with the basic premises. This requires way too much extrapolation and guess work and is likely not even accurate. It's just not good writing plain and simple. |
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Post by laxian on Mar 31, 2017 19:41:32 GMT
Honestly, I think the attempted murder charge ignores all the circumstances and shows the players being somewhat tone deaf to the situation. Going "by the book" means he's exiled and that strengthens your enemies and shows you're going to probably not forgive the "crimes" of the Outcasts. It doesn't bode well, IMHO. In a frontier survival situation, the book is worthless and the Pathfinder should be the one who decides who lives and dies because that's the way they do it in Council space. Even so, WHAT judicial system? Everyone is dead but Tann, Kesh, and Addison. Why should we? Sure there are some mitigating circumstances (like that A.I.-Leadership totally fucking up with equipment (they should have had enough food to be self-sufficient for a long time), the people chosen (they should be calm under duress, not prone to rioting and uprisings!) and by not having any backup plan ("If that cluster doesn't work, we go to the next!") etc. and thus the problem with feeding the people (note: Why are so many people out of stasis? That's a question I'd like answered, I'd have kept most in stasis only waking essential people I can't do without - meaning: Scientists, some military and the leaders, no more and no less!) and them keeping secrets (people like to know, but many leaders still believe that ignorance of problems truly is bliss (which it isn't!)), but over all many of those exiles are: - thieves (I don't think they brough shuttles in their hand-luggage and tons of small arms etc. and especially food (stealing something that everybody needs, which might lead to more deaths? yeah, that makes you a criminal!)) - murderers (or at least guilty of manslaughter) - violent criminals (guilty of assault on station personal and leadership) And most of them are also guilty of mutiny (which on warships at least is punishable by death - don't know how this is handled on civilian ships that have declared a state of emergency and are de-facto at war (with the Kett!)), not to mention that them damaging the station (in addition to them looting the place for what ever they could carry!) endangers the whole A.I. so you kind of could say they are guilty of treason, too!) So all in all: Those exiles are lucky that nobody can really chase them all down and execute them (Note: Sadly the game doesn't give you the option to clean house on say Kadara...I'd have loved that! Sloan Kelly in prison (till a jury can find her guilty!) etc.) greetings LAX ps: Pardons are a possibility, but they'd have to really make nice IMHO to make me consider it, which they don't (Sloan treats you like shit and frankly I'd have loved to put her down (or take her in till a jury can get to work on her case!), but I don't know if Reyes is any better  ) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 20:25:27 GMT
As an attorney, I was very frustrated and disappointed by this quest. I get that Andromeda law would not coincide with US law, but it felt lazy that your choices are either to act unethically and suppress evidence, or let him off. True he could not be convicted of murder, but the evidence would still prove his intent to attempt murder. It is also unbelievable that the leadership would remove themselves from any decision making and let someone who was pathfinder for all of a week make this decision with no understanding of or training in Andromeda law. He wasn't even present for the original trial and really only has a 5 minute summary of what even happened. Let's see... This is the same civilized society that allows Shepard to gun down 2 people in front of a bar in ME1 within a very short time of coming onto the Citadel, kill 4 people in a medical clinic, clear out an entire bar of people and murder the bar owner, and then shoot several people in a back alley... all before becoming a spectre and without any mention of holding a trial. I believe Shepard could also gun down Chorban in the market place before becoming a spectre and sabotage the AI behind Delan's Emporium. This is also the same civilized society that, in ME2, allows a disavowed Spectre and a Turian vigilante to gun down a citizen on the Citadel while standing amid a bunch of other innocent civilians... still without mention of a trial. He can also just stand by and watch Nassana Dantius be assassinated on Illium and leave the system with the assassin without even being questioned... regardless of his loss of spectre status or not. I'm sorry, but the writing of justice issues and due process in Mass Effect got stupid right at the start of the Trilogy... and for those carrying on about Mac Walters - much of it had nothing to do with him. In addition, I believe it was basically stated that most of the writing of ME:A had been completed before Chris Schlerf left the position of lead writer. ME:A is really just carrying on like the Mass Effect game it is. |
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Post by CTPhipps on Mar 31, 2017 21:24:44 GMT
As an attorney, I was very frustrated and disappointed by this quest. I get that Andromeda law would not coincide with US law, but it felt lazy that your choices are either to act unethically and suppress evidence, or let him off. True he could not be convicted of murder, but the evidence would still prove his intent to attempt murder. It is also unbelievable that the leadership would remove themselves from any decision making and let someone who was pathfinder for all of a week make this decision with no understanding of or training in Andromeda law. He wasn't even present for the original trial and really only has a 5 minute summary of what even happened. Let's see... This is the same civilized society that allows Shepard to gun down 2 people in front of a bar in ME1 within a very short time of coming onto the Citadel, kill 4 people in a medical clinic, clear out an entire bar of people and murder the bar owner, and then shoot several people in a back alley... all before becoming a spectre and without any mention of holding a trial. I believe Shepard could also gun down Chorban in the market place before becoming a spectre and sabotage the AI behind Delan's Emporium. This is also the same civilized society that, in ME2, allows a disavowed Spectre and a Turian vigilante to gun down a citizen on the Citadel while standing amid a bunch of other innocent civilians... still without mention of a trial. He can also just stand by and watch Nassana Dantius be assassinated on Illium and leave the system with the assassin without even being questioned... regardless of his loss of spectre status or not. I'm sorry, but the writing of justice issues and due process in Mass Effect got stupid right at the start of the Trilogy... and for those carrying on about Mac Walters - much of it had nothing to do with him. In addition, I believe it was basically stated that most of the writing of ME:A had been completed before Chris Schlerf left the position of lead writer. ME:A is really just carrying on like the Mass Effect game it is. Well, to be fair, you are still part of Ambassador Udina's delegation and thus protected by diplomatic immunity to some extent. But was I the only one who actually LIKED how unconsciously fascist and disturbing Citadel Space was? I even liked how the second game revealed it was the ASARI'S influence that makes it that way. |
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