joglee
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Post by joglee on Mar 31, 2017 1:48:06 GMT
I've seen it mentioned multiple times that with such a small fraction of the Milkey Way explored why bother with going to Heleus.
I'll say this, looking at it like that it doesn't make sense.
However I urge everyone to recover all of Alec's memories.
Trust me, they are incredibly important to recover.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 4:17:05 GMT
I don't agree with staying in the Milky Way either.
I did recover all of Alec's memories, but I've only gone through two of them. Should check out the rest since I finished the game.
Edit: After going through them, there is a perfectly valid reason for why they did what they did.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 9, 2017 6:25:33 GMT
I agree that the memories are an excellent little 'what if'. That actually gets you thinking about the future.
I still think it could have been done in the Milky Way a few thousand years removed from the OT.
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Archangel
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Post by Archangel on Apr 9, 2017 6:54:15 GMT
I've seen it mentioned multiple times that with such a small fraction of the Milkey Way explored why bother with going to Heleus. I'll say this, looking at it like that it doesn't make sense. However I urge everyone to recover all of Alec's memories. Trust me, they are incredibly important to recover. That was a theory (probably a leak) before launch.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Apr 9, 2017 9:04:19 GMT
In the later stages of the project probably but not when it was started in 2175; way before Sovereign was encountered. I'm wondering how much was actually done; was any ark even started. How much groundwork had been done before Sovereign's attack on the Citadel. How much could be done in two years after 2183. Nexus plus five arks. That's one hell of a price tag / materials / work labor.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 9, 2017 9:47:18 GMT
Having a valid reason to do it, and doing it in a way that makes sense - are two entirely different things. One Does Not Simply send a bunch of unarmed space freezers to a different galaxy and expects them to survive through some unlikely miracle. The writers were so terrified to be seen as pro-imperialism or something, that logic was shot in the head and thrown out of the airlock. Unarmed? Have you been playing Hello Kitty again?
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Post by Serza on Apr 9, 2017 10:19:59 GMT
Yes, unarmed, because assault rifles do not count in a capital ship battle.
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Post by Serza on Apr 9, 2017 10:24:27 GMT
Unarmed? Have you been playing Hello Kitty again? You are right, ME:A does feel like a game about kitties at times.
In case your memory is failing, the space freezers, AKA the Arks, and also the Nexus - were unarmed.
You could also make your first settlement "free" of militia presence. How they survived the Kett attacks is anyone's guess.
Personally I made that first outpost scientific, and woke up special forces personnel with my first Andromeda Viability Point. I had scientists in the outpost and SpecOps hunting down shit in the general vicinity before it could threaten the outpost.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 9, 2017 10:39:51 GMT
I was really happy with the Ryder memories. Before release I explained here. What happened now is: - Jien Garson wanted to go to Andromeda to reach the 'milestone' of doing something that hasn't been done before. A next step. Not because it made sense. Just like going to Mars in the present isn't very economical while there are climate and poverty issues back home, but humans want to pioneer. - She didn't have enough money for that mega project. Makes sense. - Someone stepped in with a very good reason and offered the money. I agree that the memories are an excellent little 'what if'. That actually gets you thinking about the future. I still think it could have been done in the Milky Way a few thousand years removed from the OT. Before the extended cut I was hoping they would make destroy canon and the game would be about restoring communications in the Milky Way without the relays. A long journey from Earth to - for example - Tuchanka, through space that wasn't explored before (because no nearby relays). Meeting civilizations that never found Reaper/Protean tech.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 10:46:53 GMT
Unarmed? Have you been playing Hello Kitty again? You are right, ME:A does feel like a game about kitties at times.
In case your memory is failing, the space freezers, AKA the Arks, and also the Nexus - were unarmed.
You could also make your first settlement "free" of militia presence. How they survived the Kett attacks is anyone's guess.
I think there is a premise that we do send off exploration vehicles unarmed - Apollo 11 was unarmed, as were the subsequent ones. The Mars probes were not armed; and I've not heard anything about SpaceX planning to heavily arm their venture. When the mission was first conceived in 2175, it may well have not been the intention to leave the galaxy in the first wave but to rather explore an unexplored area of the galaxy itself. After the revelation that Alec's memory reveals, the project was obviously pushed ahead and the purpose of it was modified... perhaps a little too late to add in giant space guns on the Nexus or arcs. In addition, at that point, getting the vessels just finished enough to conceivably make the extra distance was probably a higher priority than arming them. You do realize that the Nexus even left in an unfinished state. Given that we knew a retcon was necessary to overcome the triple-hit endings of the Trilogy regardless of whether or not they stayed in the galaxy, I think the premise for it in Andromeda was set up in a reasonably good way. Had they opted to stay within the galaxy, what would have been the point of going anywhere at all since the Reapers harvest throughout the entire galaxy.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 9, 2017 10:52:51 GMT
Yes, unarmed, because assault rifles do not count in a capital ship battle. Your ships don't need guns when you've got Asari commandos. You just bounce those 20kg ferous slugs (feel the weight) right back at the enemy ships with pin point accuracy. *Sips Ryncol*
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 9, 2017 10:58:29 GMT
Premise makes sense. Colonists... let's say I'm on acceptance phase already.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 9, 2017 11:02:19 GMT
Your ships don't need guns when you've got Asari commandos. You just bounce those 20kg ferous slugs (feel the weight) right back at the enemy ships with pin point accuracy. *Sips Ryncol*
Did you really have to remind me of this idiocy? Bioware disregard for lore is simply astonishing at times.
Fact: When Shepard got shot by a warship he died. Fact: The last time a warship shot at an Asari commando IT died. Asari commandos are the new Chuck Norris.
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Post by Serza on Apr 9, 2017 11:50:27 GMT
Personally I made that first outpost scientific, and woke up special forces personnel with my first Andromeda Viability Point. I had scientists in the outpost and SpecOps hunting down shit in the general vicinity before it could threaten the outpost. Funnily enough, someone makes a comment at some point later that the settlement on EOS succeeded despite the fact that it didn't have militia.
In any case, I can't even properly explain the level of retardation of the idea that the settlement can only be either entirely about science or entirely about militia.
My feelings on the subject can be summed up with:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 12:03:38 GMT
I think there is a premise that we do send off exploration vehicles unarmed - Apollo 11 was unarmed, as were the subsequent ones. The Mars probes were not armed; and I've not heard anything about SpaceX planning to heavily arm their venture. When the mission was first conceived in 2175, it may well have not been the intention to leave the galaxy in the first wave but to rather explore an unexplored area of the galaxy itself. After the revelation that Alec's memory reveals, the project was obviously pushed ahead and the purpose of it was modified... perhaps a little too late to add in giant space guns on the Nexus or arcs. In addition, at that point, getting the vessels just finished enough to conceivably make the extra distance was probably a higher priority than arming them. You do realize that the Nexus even left in an unfinished state. Given that we knew a retcon was necessary to overcome the triple-hit endings of the Trilogy regardless of whether or not they stayed in the galaxy, I think the premise for it in Andromeda was set up in a reasonably good way. Had they opted to stay within the galaxy, what would have been the point of going anywhere at all since the Reapers harvest throughout the entire galaxy.
Surely you can't think that this comparison makes sense?!
Today, as far as we know, there are no Aliens out there, hostile or friendly. Today, to launch one kilogram of sensitive equipment safely to space you need to burn a disproportionately high amount of fuel. (can't remember the numbers, but they are ridiculous)
That's why no one is sending weapons to space today.
In the ME universe, where you can practically show the middle finger to the laws of physics, and where hostile aliens are a fact of life, sending a bunch of completely unarmed space freezers to a distant galaxy beyond the range of help or reinforcements - is simply retarded.
Surely, you can't think that your comparison makes sense. The AI did not "know" they were going to encounter anyone in the Andromeda galaxy either. Only the "scale" of the project is changed, the reasoning remains the same. The AI had only so much time to prepare (and that time was drastically shortened by Castellus' revelation to Alec), they only had so much "room" in the craft, and they only had so many resources to rely on. As an entire galaxy gears up for war, weapons can become in short supply even... so, when headed into an unknown where only maybe you might encounter anyone or only maybe might encounter anyone hostile and you have no way of even knowing whether any of your weapons would be effective anyways... you're pretty sure at that point that 4 thanix cannon by themselves (ie not part of the fleet) won't do you much good against even a single reaper... so, do you leave 5,000 people behind to pack some guns that may be of no use to you? Do you leave tons of food and other supplies behind on the chance that you might need a big space gun?
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Post by cypherj on Apr 9, 2017 12:04:36 GMT
The entire setup of this game makes no sense, even if you ignore why they went there in the first place.
- No pathfinders on the Nexus. Every ship that could reach Andromeda should have had pathfinders on it in case it was the only ship that made it. - Arks made up of entirely one race. Every ark should have been a mix of all races in case, once again, it was the only ship to reach Andromeda.
The Pathfinders were supposed to be the ones testing the viability of planets, making first contact, etc. However, once you get there all of this has been done. Angarans are living peacefully with other races, people are living off the Nexus on multiple worlds.
Had there been no scourge or Kett, all of these planets would have been settled by the time the Pathfinders teams got there. It just didn't make sense to me.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 9, 2017 12:07:52 GMT
Nope... I know what you mean, but since the Ai was already well underway at this point, it still doesn't make sense.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 12:51:05 GMT
Personally I made that first outpost scientific, and woke up special forces personnel with my first Andromeda Viability Point. I had scientists in the outpost and SpecOps hunting down shit in the general vicinity before it could threaten the outpost. Funnily enough, someone makes a comment at some point later that the settlement on EOS succeeded despite the fact that it didn't have militia.
In any case, I can't even properly explain the level of retardation of the idea that the settlement can only be either entirely about science or entirely about militia.
My feelings on the subject can be summed up with:
Yeah, you can never put scientists and soldiers in settlements at the same time. Seriously, though, have a settlement exclusively for one or the other? Meaningful choices...
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 9, 2017 13:03:14 GMT
Find it hard to believe that out of all the races the reapers have destroyed over how many thousands upon thousands of years, none thought just to feckin well leg it to a different galaxy until now, or that the reapers didn't have any sort of plan to stop them.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 9, 2017 13:08:16 GMT
Find it hard to believe that out of all the races the reapers have destroyed over how many thousands upon thousands of years, none thought just to feckin well leg it to a different galaxy until now, or that the reapers didn't have any sort of plan to stop them. If you escaped the reapers you wouldn't be inclined to send a message back or visit for the holidays though would you? So we might as well say that it might of happened but if it did it's irrelevant by now anyway.
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Post by cheeseandonion on Apr 9, 2017 13:11:11 GMT
Find it hard to believe that out of all the races the reapers have destroyed over how many thousands upon thousands of years, none thought just to feckin well leg it to a different galaxy until now, or that the reapers didn't have any sort of plan to stop them. If you escaped the reapers you wouldn't be inclined to send a message back or visit for the holidays though would you? So we might as well say that it might of happened but if it did it's irrelevant by now anyway. Well this hypothetical escapee race is going to have hundreds of thousands of years to improve their technology unhindered in a new galaxy, so really they should've come back to the milky way and done the dirty on the reapers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 13:15:30 GMT
Surely you can't think that this comparison makes sense?!
Today, as far as we know, there are no Aliens out there, hostile or friendly. Today, to launch one kilogram of sensitive equipment safely to space you need to burn a disproportionately high amount of fuel. (can't remember the numbers, but they are ridiculous)
That's why no one is sending weapons to space today.
In the ME universe, where you can practically show the middle finger to the laws of physics, and where hostile aliens are a fact of life, sending a bunch of completely unarmed space freezers to a distant galaxy beyond the range of help or reinforcements - is simply retarded.
Surely, you can't think that your comparison makes sense. The AI did not "know" they were going to encounter anyone in the Andromeda galaxy either. Only the "scale" of the project is changed, the reasoning remains the same. The AI had only so much time to prepare (and that time was drastically shortened by Castellus' revelation to Alec), they only had so much "room" in the craft, and they only had so many resources to rely on. As an entire galaxy gears up for war, weapons can become in short supply even... so, when headed into an unknown where only maybe you might encounter anyone or only maybe might encounter anyone hostile and you have no way of even knowing whether any of your weapons would be effective anyways... you're pretty sure at that point that 4 thanix cannon by themselves (ie not part of the fleet) won't do you much good against even a single reaper... so, do you leave 5,000 people behind to pack some guns that may be of no use to you? Do you leave tons of food and other supplies behind on the chance that you might need a big space gun? I'm sorry, but activating an ancient piece of tech in space that propels you thousands of light years away and provoking an alien species without knowing in the process, starting a war, having one of your colonies invaded by those same aliens isn't evidence enough to convince you that we need weapons in another freakin' galaxy? We find aliens in the first corner we come across, but 100.000 colonists didn't think they would find aliens in another galaxy... seems legit. I'm sorry, my friend, but comparing sending a few people today to explore the moon, or probes to another planet without arming them, against 100.000 colonists whose survival is paramount for the continuing existence of their species (since the Andromeda Initiative was accelerated to accomodate the revelation of Castis, as you said) is beyond moronic. Do we still need to discuss this? You played the game, I assume, and you saw the shit they went through, no ark made to the Nexus by the time you arrived there (wonder why). Here, we are talking about a few science teams, you send 10 people to a place and they get attacked, it won't threaten the survival of your species as a whole, nor they are there to start a new life. You don't defend 100.000 people on a 2.5 million light years journey with no return, consider them extinct, even worse if you know what might've happened to those who stayed behind.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 9, 2017 13:21:33 GMT
Find it hard to believe that out of all the races the reapers have destroyed over how many thousands upon thousands of years, none thought just to feckin well leg it to a different galaxy until now, or that the reapers didn't have any sort of plan to stop them. They physically couldn't. It's assumed that thousands of cycles weren't able to advance their FTL enough to do it. Even Prothean Empire was cut apart when Reapers shut down relay network.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 13:28:02 GMT
Find it hard to believe that out of all the races the reapers have destroyed over how many thousands upon thousands of years, none thought just to feckin well leg it to a different galaxy until now, or that the reapers didn't have any sort of plan to stop them. They physically couldn't. It's assumed that thousands of cycles weren't able to advance their FTL enough to do it. Even Prothean Empire was cut apart when Reapers shut down relay network. Yeah, up until humanity, those species didn't even know Reapers existed until they came out of the Citadel killing galactic leadership immediately and deactivating the relay network, at least, as we're led to believe. (Funny how they didn't do it in our cycle, though, attack the Citadel first).
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 9, 2017 13:31:18 GMT
They physically couldn't. It's assumed that thousands of cycles weren't able to advance their FTL enough to do it. Even Prothean Empire was cut apart when Reapers shut down relay network. Yeah, up until humanity, those species didn't even know Reapers existed until they came out of the Citadel killing galactic leadership immediately and deactivating the relay network, at least, as we're led to believe. ( Funny how they didn't do it in our cycle, though). Uh, replay ME1. That is explained.
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