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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:01:42 GMT
Link
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/132737089
I personally think most of Andromeda's face-problems are just due to mishandled modeling and shader issues that make white skin look kinda yellow-ish, but honestly BioWare could easily be doing these things consciously. Today a panel at the yearly Queerness & Games convention Jon Epler who did lead narrative presentation stuff for DA:I talks about BioWare's approach to diversity in games, and some of it, as you'd expect involves not featuring white straight males too hard because it's kinda shameful. (Context: He talks about not making Blackwall look too normal because he's the most "cis-gendered white straight male")
Relevant thing begins at 4h 15m in the VOD
Suffice it to say, I would not actually put it behind BioWare to make pale white skin unavailable as a progressive statement.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 2, 2017 1:03:44 GMT
SJWs smh.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 1:03:49 GMT
Is there a video? Can't see it.
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Post by suikoden on Apr 2, 2017 1:05:00 GMT
Link https://www.twitch.tv/videos/132737089 I personally think most of Andromeda's face-problems are just due to mishandled modeling and shader issues that make white skin look kinda yellow-ish, but honestly BioWare could easily be doing these things consciously. Today a panel at the yearly Queerness & Games convention Jon Epler who did lead narrative presentation stuff for DA:I talks about BioWare's approach to diversity in games, and some of it, as you'd expect involves not featuring white straight males too hard because it's kinda shameful. (Context: He talks about not making Blackwall look too normal because he's the most "cis-gendered white straight male") Relevant thing begins at 4h 15m in the VOD Suffice it to say, I would not actually put it behind BioWare to make pale white skin unavailable as a progressive statement. That doesn't explain the extreme fugliness of the female presets and Ryder herself.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Apr 2, 2017 1:05:40 GMT
Lol
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:06:59 GMT
It's supposed to be embedded but something is glitching up. I posted a text-link for you. Overreactions are welcome but don't run with this and start harrassing jon on Twitter or anything. I'm kinda shaking my head over some of it (not that I'm completely against the need for more diversity) but objectively this is just what BioWare represents in this day and age, which is not a crime against humanity and I think some of it is worth being open-minded towards, but at the same time it's also a bit
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Apr 2, 2017 1:07:54 GMT
Why does femryder look constantly confused? Is it because of the autism?
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:08:12 GMT
Link https://www.twitch.tv/videos/132737089 I personally think most of Andromeda's face-problems are just due to mishandled modeling and shader issues that make white skin look kinda yellow-ish, but honestly BioWare could easily be doing these things consciously. Today a panel at the yearly Queerness & Games convention Jon Epler who did lead narrative presentation stuff for DA:I talks about BioWare's approach to diversity in games, and some of it, as you'd expect involves not featuring white straight males too hard because it's kinda shameful. (Context: He talks about not making Blackwall look too normal because he's the most "cis-gendered white straight male") Relevant thing begins at 4h 15m in the VOD Suffice it to say, I would not actually put it behind BioWare to make pale white skin unavailable as a progressive statement. That doesn't explain the extreme fugliness of the female presets and Ryder herself. We may never know why Jayde Rossi-Ryder doesn't look like Jayde Rossi ( hint it's totally because BW Montreal couldn't get the 3D model rig for the face-scan right...!)
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:08:33 GMT
Why does femryder look constantly confused? Is it because of the autism? Scroll back to 3 hours into the video where they address this.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 1:09:15 GMT
Its stupid, just say it. The main focus should be to write great characters, not feel the need to fill some sort of quota. This is my issue with many AAA developers, but Bioware is absolutely at the forefront of it.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:18:26 GMT
Its stupid, just say it. The main focus should be to write great characters, not feel the need to fill some sort of quota. This is my issue with many AAA developers, but Bioware is absolutely at the forefront of it. I've been on this disingenuous train of logic before too. But there's a fault with it. You're unconsciously implying that diversity is only welcome given that it's well written, so you're basically saying "fuck anything outside of my personal interest" (don't take it personally, I don't mean it that way ). The way I always look at it is, if you're creating a character for a story you have to think about how they look and who they are. Say, it's a powerful mage who leads a cult. At some point you may end up with a normal white guy just because that's what it defaulted to in your head. The same goes for an ethnic character of the same role. There's no logical reason, UNLESS STATED EXPLICITLY and established as canon in your respective context, that says a black/ethnic or LGBTQ guy is less valid as that role as a "normal" white character. The problem I find is when it becomes this race for diversity or race for being progressice and socially just to the point of being "regressive" as they like to call it. I'm all for authenticity and most good authors are typically egotistical and the same goes for a lot of the audience. The need to have more diversity via inclusivity of a company whose writers are not always that diverse (yet) seems dishonest and inauthentic to me. When it comes across in the game when a transexual character talks about their plight it shows that it's this wishful writing that the BioWare writer thought "I'm representing transgenderism, this is what is important" and it can feel tacked on if done poorly or it can feel natural if done well. I thought Traynor fit in naturally in ME3. Her romance arc for FemShep sucked IMO but everything else was great. I was so disappointed she replaced Kelly at first but she grew on me like it was nobody's business and that's a good example of some LGBTQ justice that didn't feel shoehorned or forced in. Honestly, I found it to be the same with Cortez. I did have that "Oh please, a gay character for Shepard now?" at first but aside from his laughable goodbye message from hus husband, it was well done. Krem was... somewhat well done but s/he was just there. The only thing Krem does you remember is talk approval-seeking to Bull as he explains how important it is that she's a "he" and it's all preachy LGBTQ pandering shit. So, I think I'm trying to say something but I'm not going to write anything poignant because I'm tired.
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Apr 2, 2017 1:19:10 GMT
The "you can't create a white character" claims being thrown around aren't true tho. There are two white presets, three if you count the one that looks sort of Hispanic. What you can't do is make someone who looks nordic or something, even as white as the defaults and that sucks, it sucks that there is a lack of variety in skin tones among many other issues there are with the cc. IDK why having more diverse presets is bad tho, Asian people have been kinda impossible to make in a lot of Bioware games and darker skin tones generally looked bad in all their games before they moved to frostbite.
But yeah despite this I wish Bioware would stop pandering to these SJWs who want them to admit crap like that they have "unconscious biases" and are "very privileged". Like if you want to represent minorities in your games then do so, you don't need to go to these cons and pander to these rich hipster kids who have appointed themselves the authority on all minority issues.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:21:09 GMT
That's the thing though. It's the vast minority of available faces. I understand some of them are clearly asian or african looking with lips and eyes etc. but there's like 3-4 of them that look like they could be anybody and the whitest color is still not very white.
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Post by RageUnderFire on Apr 2, 2017 1:21:22 GMT
Definitely agenda driven.
We live in a culture that prizes female attractiveness much over male attractiveness.
Yet they went out their way with a patch to make Sarah look worse than Scott.
Prettiest female human in the game happens to be gay. Irl the majority of most beautiful women have a strong preference for the D. That urge is so strong they'll even bang ugly guys.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:23:13 GMT
I honestly think Sara looked completely generic pre-patch. The problem is that her proportions are just laughable after the patch but she looks more... iconic?
Back to the video. Here are the golden nuggets:
"We're trying not to "stereotype"", meaning, that's why you're seeing unattractive female leads like Cassandra, Sera and Sara (I think they're hot... except Sara lmao)
"We are trying to be progressive"
"Every time people tell me we've given into SJWs I feel proud of what I have done"
You can't deny it.
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Post by RageUnderFire on Apr 2, 2017 1:23:57 GMT
Anyone notice how the preset black person face looks African and not African-American.
They went with super exaggerated faces to push diversity.
This creates ugly. Humans prefer balanced faces.
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Post by RageUnderFire on Apr 2, 2017 1:26:53 GMT
I honestly think Sara looked completely generic pre-patch. The problem is that her proportions are just laughable after the patch but she looks more... iconic? I want to live where you live if females with hyper feminine faces are common enough to be generic. Patched Sara became the homely but healthy looking girl. They're cute on their best days but don't cross the finish line into pretty. I see where you're coming from though. A basic looking female in a huge star role is unusual. That in itself is iconic.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:27:18 GMT
Anyone notice how the preset black person face looks African and not African-American. They went with super exaggerated faces to push diversity. This creates ugly. Humans prefer balanced faces. You just called africans ugly lmao
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Post by Zemgus on Apr 2, 2017 1:27:44 GMT
Make all humans wear helmets all the time from now on so no one's feelings will get hurt and you can maybe focus on making the game great instead of this.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:30:57 GMT
Make all humans wear helmets all the time from now on so no one's feelings will get hurt and you can maybe focus on making the game great instead of this. David Gaider also wanted DA:I to have "no romances" after the backlash for DA2 until someone (probably Patrick) talked him out of it in DA:I. Fucking That sucks. I want a BioWare game that doesn't waste time trying to pander to me and everyone else. I just want better storytelling already. Even ME:A just ended up feeling like a waste of time as much as I appreciate the romances.
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Post by fizzypop on Apr 2, 2017 1:31:06 GMT
I am so fucking sick of people talking about "sjws" and shit as if that's the reason they are doing this. Has anyone ever considered they are doing it because SURPRISE it is an untapped market? When the entire world of gaming caters to straight white males you really look like shits complaining that 1 damn game doesn't cater to you, oh no whatever will you do?!
Seriously, this is the damn problem with the gaming community. I can't have a reasonable argument without literally dealing with just straight racism and sexism within gaming. The issue isn't that default Sara isn't a damn model, it is that the CC is limited. That all Sara's start looking alike. You can create some really hot as fuck Sara's it really isn't even hard, but the lack of them looking different is kind of what kills it. Same reason diversity isn't the issue, it is that there just isn't enough variety. So you end up with only being able to choose a few heads to match your "race" and ideal "skintone" and your ideal "family" because the ryder family doesn't change much depending on what you select. The issue has very little to do with SJWs just BAD design. Stop using bad design as an excuse to be racist and sexist, for reals.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 2, 2017 1:32:41 GMT
Good point. BTW, did you like the DA:I creator? (I did)
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Post by RageUnderFire on Apr 2, 2017 1:34:15 GMT
Anyone notice how the preset black person face looks African and not African-American. They went with super exaggerated faces to push diversity. This creates ugly. Humans prefer balanced faces. You just called africans ugly lmao well played Seriously though stereotypical looking faces of all races are rarely attractive. Whether it be a super asian, super white, super african, or super latino face. We prefer a middle ground. Notice how mixed race people tend to get lot of unwarranted compliments on their appearance.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2017 1:35:11 GMT
Make all humans wear helmets all the time from now on so no one's feelings will get hurt and you can maybe focus on making the game great instead of this. David Gaider also wanted DA:I to have "no romances" after the backlash for DA2 until someone (probably Patrick) talked him out of it in DA:I. Fucking That sucks. I want a BioWare game that doesn't waste time trying to pander to me and everyone else. I just want better storytelling already. Even ME:A just ended up feeling like a waste of time as much as I appreciate the romances. Well if they dropped romances we wouldn't get situations like with Solas and the Inquisitor, which is really well done. Problem is that they have like 8 - 9 options per game now, and its to much time wasted on the romance arcs. Max 4 options, and make them playersexual with varied dialogue based on your sex. Then make them plot relevant, like Carth Onasi or Bastila Shan. Both had something to do with the main quest, and it make the journey of Revan more Interesting. They are lacking that extra omph to make the romances something truly worthy of the game. Weird thing is they've already done it in previous games, why can't they do it again?
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Post by auu on Apr 2, 2017 1:37:53 GMT
Canada.
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