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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 2, 2017 6:54:32 GMT
We didn't learn very much about the jardaan, other than they can create habitable worlds and create species like the angara. In some ways, they seem to share similarities with the leviathans. We don't know who exactly unleashed the Scourge on the jardaan and where they have gone. It's very likely we'll see the jardaan at some point before the Andromeda story arc ends.
The kett, on the other hand, seem to share a lot of similarities with the Borg from Star Trek. A race hell-bent on domination and the enslavement of others, while taking their best traits. I found the Archon to be an incredibly weak villain, but the actual kett are rather compelling and I'd like to see where BioWare takes them.
There's a lot BioWare could do with both of these species. I just hope they don't rely on too many familiar strings and are comfortable with doing something new. I'm sure BioWare is still hesitant to do anything too wild after the backlash they received with ME3. They've been incredibly safe with the ending in DAI as well as MEA.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 2, 2017 7:04:48 GMT
The Jardaan, for me at least, are essentially the Forerunners from the Halo franchise. As for the Kett, they seem a lot like the Yuuzhan Vong from the Star Wars Legacy.
I definitely expect more from the Kett Empire in future games. There is a side quest that makes that blatantly obvious, especially if done post-main quest, so it'll be interesting to see where they go now that the Archon going off-mission was dealt with and the empire now has their attention on the Heleus Cluster for defeating the task force sent there. I can see the Jardaan maybe making another appearance rather than just being gone, especially since I'm certain a future game will go more into detail about who this Opposition is and why they unleashed the Scourge on the Jardaan.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 2, 2017 7:22:25 GMT
The Jardaan, for me at least, are essentially the Forerunners from the Halo franchise. As for the Kett, they seem a lot like the Yuuzhan Vong from the Star Wars Legacy. I definitely expect more from the Kett Empire in future games. There is a side quest that makes that blatantly obvious, especially if done post-main quest, so it'll be interesting to see where they go now that the Archon going off-mission was dealt with and the empire now has their attention on the Heleus Cluster for defeating the task force sent there. I can see the Jardaan maybe making another appearance rather than just being gone, especially since I'm certain a future game will go more into detail about who this Opposition is and why they unleashed the Scourge on the Jardaan. I actually forgot to mention the Forerunners. Considering Chris Schlerf (Lead Writer on MEA) was the guy who wrote the story for Halo 4, there were A LOT of similarities between the story of Halo 4 and MEA. There's definitely some similarities with the Forerunners (the Archon is like a copy/paste of the Didact), although they were creating Halos to contain the Flood, not create new life or worlds. I didn't even consider the Yuuzhan Vong, partially because I absolutely hated that species in Star Wars. Thankfully, they are no longer canon. The kett, in some ways, remind me a bit of the Covenant from Halo, actually. There seem to be quite a bit of religious undertones in both groups. I suppose it's not all too surprising Schlerf would use what he knows and incorporate it into the Mass Effect universe. Regardless, I'm hoping that MEA will move away from the Halo universe and really do something different. Schlerf is no longer at BioWare, so I'd imagine things could change quite a bit with the jardaan and the kett going forward.
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smellycatbutts
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 2, 2017 7:46:41 GMT
All I got to say is that the kett need to be less cute. Elmira would want to hug and squeeze the archon all day.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 2, 2017 8:18:57 GMT
All I got to say is that the kett need to be less cute. Elmira would want to hug and squeeze the archon all day. Every time I saw a kett, it just reminded me of a less imposing and less intimidating Doomsday. If they are meant to be the careful perfection of over a thousand species (according to the Archon), you would think they would look the part more. I found them to be rather uninspiring visually.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 2, 2017 9:24:29 GMT
The Jardaan, for me at least, are essentially the Forerunners from the Halo franchise. As for the Kett, they seem a lot like the Yuuzhan Vong from the Star Wars Legacy. I definitely expect more from the Kett Empire in future games. There is a side quest that makes that blatantly obvious, especially if done post-main quest, so it'll be interesting to see where they go now that the Archon going off-mission was dealt with and the empire now has their attention on the Heleus Cluster for defeating the task force sent there. I can see the Jardaan maybe making another appearance rather than just being gone, especially since I'm certain a future game will go more into detail about who this Opposition is and why they unleashed the Scourge on the Jardaan. I actually forgot to mention the Forerunners. Considering Chris Schlerf (Lead Writer on MEA) was the guy who wrote the story for Halo 4, there were A LOT of similarities between the story of Halo 4 and MEA. There's definitely some similarities with the Forerunners (the Archon is like a copy/paste of the Didact), although they were creating Halos to contain the Flood, not create new life or worlds. I didn't even consider the Yuuzhan Vong, partially because I absolutely hated that species in Star Wars. Thankfully, they are no longer canon. The kett, in some ways, remind me a bit of the Covenant from Halo, actually. There seem to be quite a bit of religious undertones in both groups. I suppose it's not all too surprising Schlerf would use what he knows and incorporate it into the Mass Effect universe. Regardless, I'm hoping that MEA will move away from the Halo universe and really do something different. Schlerf is no longer at BioWare, so I'd imagine things could change quite a bit with the jardaan and the kett going forward. Yeah, his time working on Halo definitely showed. That's not a complaint by the way. The Foreunners were doing a lot of things other than the Halo Array to combat the Flood. Really that was their final project. Before that they created Shield Worlds(hello Meridian) and they even had it so after the Halo Array was activated their seed installations activated to restore the lost species with a rewritten history, which is very similar to the case with the Angara. I can see the Archon being reminiscent of the Covenant perhaps, like his obsession with alien technology which is seen as the key to salvation. The Kett Empire itself though I don't really see it other than them being guided by a religion but that is too common to be tied with the Covenant. One other reason I think of the Yuuzhan Vong. Overall while there are some similarities with Halo, I can't really say it is a blatant copy since those kinds of species are common among science fiction.
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Post by ymirr on Apr 2, 2017 9:42:01 GMT
I've been thinking a bit about the origin of the kett, how they came to be? They can't reproduce, so who, why, where, what and when? Are kett a species that turned to enhancing themselves with traits from other species, and eventually forced it on others. Or is it a group of people who started it and then became known as Kett? Was it necessary? Or curiosity? An accident? Where did it start? Does that place still exist? Are there species that have survived them?
I do hope their lore gets filled out, and we get to see some of their worlds, and other worlds impacted by their trickery.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 2, 2017 17:22:14 GMT
I actually forgot to mention the Forerunners. Considering Chris Schlerf (Lead Writer on MEA) was the guy who wrote the story for Halo 4, there were A LOT of similarities between the story of Halo 4 and MEA. There's definitely some similarities with the Forerunners (the Archon is like a copy/paste of the Didact), although they were creating Halos to contain the Flood, not create new life or worlds. I didn't even consider the Yuuzhan Vong, partially because I absolutely hated that species in Star Wars. Thankfully, they are no longer canon. The kett, in some ways, remind me a bit of the Covenant from Halo, actually. There seem to be quite a bit of religious undertones in both groups. I suppose it's not all too surprising Schlerf would use what he knows and incorporate it into the Mass Effect universe. Regardless, I'm hoping that MEA will move away from the Halo universe and really do something different. Schlerf is no longer at BioWare, so I'd imagine things could change quite a bit with the jardaan and the kett going forward. Yeah, his time working on Halo definitely showed. That's not a complaint by the way. The Foreunners were doing a lot of things other than the Halo Array to combat the Flood. Really that was their final project. Before that they created Shield Worlds(hello Meridian) and they even had it so after the Halo Array was activated their seed installations activated to restore the lost species with a rewritten history, which is very similar to the case with the Angara. I can see the Archon being reminiscent of the Covenant perhaps, like his obsession with alien technology which is seen as the key to salvation. The Kett Empire itself though I don't really see it other than them being guided by a religion but that is too common to be tied with the Covenant. One other reason I think of the Yuuzhan Vong. Overall while there are some similarities with Halo, I can't really say it is a blatant copy since those kinds of species are common among science fiction. Agreed. I don't mind BioWare taking from some of the best aspects of other franchises like Halo. It has a lot of great lore, although I think in more recent times 343 has gone a little bit off the deep end. We actually really didn't see enough of the kett at this point to really know their motivations other than exaltation. All we largely received was the Archon, which I felt was probably the most disappointing character in the game. Quality villains are essential for any great story and the Archon was just lacking in my opinion. I've been thinking a bit about the origin of the kett, how they came to be? They can't reproduce, so who, why, where, what and when? Are kett a species that turned to enhancing themselves with traits from other species, and eventually forced it on others. Or is it a group of people who started it and then became known as Kett? Was it necessary? Or curiosity? An accident? Where did it start? Does that place still exist? Are there species that have survived them? I do hope their lore gets filled out, and we get to see some of their worlds, and other worlds impacted by their trickery. It's possible at one point the kett could reproduce but they merely removed their reproductive organs for more vital systems due to this new technology. All we know is that the kett are apparently from Andromeda, but not from the Heleus Cluster. It also appears that they aren't very interested in Remnant technology either, only with the exception of the Archon. Honestly, I'm really hoping exaltation gets fleshed out. Right now the kett are a little too stereotypical "bad guy" for my tastes. I want to see some real depth and explanation for why they are doing what they do. I want to understand why they think exaltation is a "blessing" and is justified. I wouldn't even be against a kett companion in a future game. I just hope they get an overhaul much like the geth received in ME2.
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Post by laxian on Apr 2, 2017 18:17:14 GMT
Hm...maybe the Kett used that Scourge against the Jardaan? It would make sense, especially that they CAN'T USE REMNANT TECH (!) - If I fight an enemy, I'd make damned sure they can't use my stuff and if they are another race than a kind of GENETIC LOCK would be a very neat idea (especially if it isn't fooled by exaltation stuff, maybe it detects especially that and locks Remnant tech down if that is present?)...I mean the damned Archon needs to use a Ryder-Twin as a fucking INTERFACE (he can't control the tech without!)
Also: The Kett don't seem that bothered by the Scourge (they have damned maps to it etc.)
greetings LAX
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 2, 2017 18:49:58 GMT
Hm...maybe the Kett used that Scourge against the Jardaan? It would make sense, especially that they CAN'T USE REMNANT TECH (!) - If I fight an enemy, I'd make damned sure they can't use my stuff and if they are another race than a kind of GENETIC LOCK would be a very neat idea (especially if it isn't fooled by exaltation stuff, maybe it detects especially that and locks Remnant tech down if that is present?)...I mean the damned Archon needs to use a Ryder-Twin as a fucking INTERFACE (he can't control the tech without!) Also: The Kett don't seem that bothered by the Scourge (they have damned maps to it etc.) greetings LAX Not possible. We already know the kett can't combat the Scourge and have had numerous vessels destroyed by it. Not to mention, the last mission has Pathfinder Ryder using the Scourge against the Archon. If I had to guess the Scourge was either created by the jardaan or a species that was just as technologically advanced. The kett seem to be an outside element that largely doesn't have an interest in remnant technology (only the Archon did and it was to his detriment) and just wants to perform exaltation on all lifeforms.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 2, 2017 19:27:30 GMT
The Jardaan seem intriguing since it seems they could be people trying to restore broken worlds and create people to inhabit them without it necessarily being for some self-serving agenda but more because they can and want to. That's interesting to me.
The Kett are also intriguing to me. It's a bit hard to formulate why at the moment but it's because of their culture and how they view things like how the Primus refers to the kett as a family when she talks about Ryder will be a part of it after exaltation. There's also how they're not doing this because they need to: they could resort to cloning as the Moshae notes. It may be that exaltation was once necessary but since then it developed into a part of their culture that they now want to do. I find myself very curious about the origin of the kett and how their culture developed. To me, they are a yet unsolved mystery and I'm eager for more clues to solve it.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 2, 2017 19:41:41 GMT
All I got to say is that the kett need to be less cute. Elmira would want to hug and squeeze the archon all day. Hard disagree. I meant, not about the kett being cute. The Archon is so cute. I wish them all the best and want to make peace with them. Their neoteny must be a calculated design choice. If their leaders are less cute, frankly, that breaks the lore in a big way. That's how the kett gains the trust of their victims before surprise exaltation: "Come on, would this face lie to you?" I felt almost happy for the Archon during the scene on the Hyperion. He just looked so incredibly happy and expressive that I felt he would do a jig of joy if he knew what it was.
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MediocreOgre
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Post by MediocreOgre on Apr 2, 2017 20:11:09 GMT
I've been thinking a bit about the origin of the kett, how they came to be? They can't reproduce, so who, why, where, what and when? Are kett a species that turned to enhancing themselves with traits from other species, and eventually forced it on others. Or is it a group of people who started it and then became known as Kett? Was it necessary? Or curiosity? An accident? Where did it start? Does that place still exist? Are there species that have survived them? I do hope their lore gets filled out, and we get to see some of their worlds, and other worlds impacted by their trickery. I kind of think/am worried the Kett will be revealed to be another Jardaan creation. It is hinted at during the game that the Jardaan/Remnant presence came to the Heleus Cluster for reasons having to do with some sort of conflict with the forces behind the Scourge (the Scourge actively targets Remnant/Jardaan technology and damages it by being attracted to Remnant signatures like a magnet to iron). There is also the implication that the Jardaan created the Angara for a reason or with specific qualities, and the Kett are interested in the Angara because of their solar powered/electrically charged biology which is said to be unique to the Angara as the Kett who have incorporated "thousands" of species into their biology have never encountered anything like it. There is also the weird implication that the Kett lack the capacity to use Remnant Tech and are surprisingly uninterested in developing their own AI technology for being remarkably technologically advanced. The Jardaan/Remnant/Angara all have a predilection to AI. We know at the end of the game that the Remnant tech started 'reprograming' Ryder's thoughts so as to be able to use Remnant tech, likewise the Angara pre-fall passed down knowledge on how to use Remnant tech through Remnant inspired tech (Havarl Vault). So it seems likely the Angara were created with the capacity to learn from Remnant tech even after the Jardaan were long gone and the forces behind the Scourge defeated them. Prior to the kett arrival in Heleus the Angara, a non-tech based Jardaan creation started using technology dependent on Remnant appropriation and their society started to crumble. Not only that but the scourge actively makes Planets uninhabitable which pushed the Angara to the brink. Enter the Kett who seem mildly resistant to the Scourge forces. They can breathe/live on a variety of worlds, their technology is advanced and more Scourge resistant than the pre-Kett apex Angara civilization which relied too heavily on Remnant tech. So I think it is pointing to the Kett and the Angara being two different solutions by the Jardaan to the Scourge problem. The Angara would be inheritors of Jardaan technology to continue the legacy of the Jardaan in hopes of one day ending the Scourge, while the Kett if successful would become independent of the technologies that made the Jardaan susceptible to the Scourge and possibly able to overcome it through sheer might/adaptability. Just my theory. But i think it is too suspicious that the Kett can possibly use Remnant tech to make everyone Kett, while the Angara can basically use Remnant tech to make themselves Jardaan. Either they are reincarnations of the forces at war during the Jardaan era or they are both solutions revolving around the use of Jardaan technologies to overcoming/defeating whatever bad force the Scourge represents. Another too close for comfort similarity is the Angara believe they are reincarnated when they die, and the symbolism with them and the Jardaan then is that they are avatars of the Jardaan and transcend the limitations of death. The Kett believe they are inheritors of some superior filial force that makes sentient organisms "exalted" or transcendent into a higher state of power/being. They both are societies built around the continuation of their species beyond traditional limits that make a sentient species susceptible to extinction (the Angara inherit the memories of an extinct civilization, the Kett can alter their being to survive presumably in alien conditions).
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Post by canuckgamer on Apr 2, 2017 20:31:54 GMT
I suspect the Heleus Cluster is now "safe" thanks to Meridian and control over Jardaan ships which means we will encounter the Kett in other parts of Andromeda, perhaps even their homeworld. Talk about a real moral decision in one of the future games, we fight our way to the Kett homeworld and then have to decide whether to annihilate it or try a diplomatic solution....
I really hope we get to meet the Jaardan and the Scourge aliens.
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Post by laxian on Apr 2, 2017 23:56:47 GMT
Hm...maybe the Kett used that Scourge against the Jardaan? It would make sense, especially that they CAN'T USE REMNANT TECH (!) - If I fight an enemy, I'd make damned sure they can't use my stuff and if they are another race than a kind of GENETIC LOCK would be a very neat idea (especially if it isn't fooled by exaltation stuff, maybe it detects especially that and locks Remnant tech down if that is present?)...I mean the damned Archon needs to use a Ryder-Twin as a fucking INTERFACE (he can't control the tech without!) Also: The Kett don't seem that bothered by the Scourge (they have damned maps to it etc.) greetings LAX Not possible. We already know the kett can't combat the Scourge and have had numerous vessels destroyed by it. Not to mention, the last mission has Pathfinder Ryder using the Scourge against the Archon. If I had to guess the Scourge was either created by the jardaan or a species that was just as technologically advanced. The kett seem to be an outside element that largely doesn't have an interest in remnant technology (only the Archon did and it was to his detriment) and just wants to perform exaltation on all lifeforms. Who says they haven't lost control of it? I mean that could easily happen with say a bioweapon in today's world, so why not with something more advanced - hell, they might have made a simply error in calculations and it has spread out of control? greetings LAX EDIT: Having instead of haven't...what have I been doing while writing this?
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mrobnoxiousuk
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Apr 3, 2017 2:43:40 GMT
The reason we know it is not the Kett responsible is the Scourge happened about 300 years ago and the Kett have only been in the cluster for 75 years according to the Angara.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 9:01:57 GMT
I don't think Jardaan really "created" Angara, they could've just speed up the proccess of evolution I mean if a race is powerful enough to create life how could they become extinct. Maybe the creatures we heard of in Voeld are non evolved version of the Angara(the ones live underwater)
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 3, 2017 11:04:13 GMT
I don't think Jardaan really "created" Angara, they could've just speed up the proccess of evolution I mean if a race is powerful enough to create life how could they become extinct. Maybe the creatures we heard of in Voeld are non evolved version of the Angara(the ones live underwater) They clearly tell you they were created. The Kett refer to them as AI in their datapads. (Which gave the whole thing away in the first few hours.)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 11:06:25 GMT
I think Casey Hudson was much better at all this than the halo guy. It seems like all the similarities this game has to halo as the things that I don't like about it.
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Post by kalreegar on Apr 3, 2017 11:14:24 GMT
I've not played Andromeda yet but I've a question about the Lore...
are the Kett a species native of Andromeda galaxy (thier homeworld/empire is somewhere outside heleus cluster but inside andromeda) or they come from other galaxies/worlds/dimensions etc?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2017 14:15:58 GMT
I don't think Jardaan really "created" Angara, they could've just speed up the proccess of evolution I mean if a race is powerful enough to create life how could they become extinct. Maybe the creatures we heard of in Voeld are non evolved version of the Angara(the ones live underwater) They clearly tell you they were created. The Kett refer to them as AI in their datapads. (Which gave the whole thing away in the first few hours.) How can you create something exactly? In me universe everything no matter how bullshit had a scientific explanation and in science you cannot simply create something. Kett didn't know everything about Jardaan either they could be wrong too
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Psychedelic
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Post by Psychedelic on Apr 3, 2017 16:03:18 GMT
My first thought when I learned the Angara were created by the Jardaan was "keepers", as in the Citadel Keepers, just with their cognitive abilities intact. The Jardaan use bots, the remnants, for maintenance and defense, but these have very little intelligence of their own. Maybe the Angara were meant to keep an eye on the vault system and make corrections, if needed, for which the remnant VI lacks the necessary understanding and insight. An advanced AI would have been able to do the job as well, but the Jardaan chose to create a whole race instead, as it seems.
It makes little sense to go through the trouble of creating so many individual humanoids (remember all the pods in Khi Tasira), unless there are other factors to make it an viable option. Just some wild speculation on my part, but what if the Jardaan are an AI or have evolved to something like it and use organics, the Angara in this case, as some sort of tools? The Angara seem to have a genetic memory, there could be knowledge or instructions coded in their DNA they are unaware of yet. It is also implied in the epilogue that this might become a problem in the future, if they ever gain full access to remnant technology (or the technology to them). The current state of the Angara is likely not what the Jardaan had intended for them, as they seem to have run into trouble themselves when the scourge hit them and may not have been able to set their plans fully in motion.
Whatever the case, I hope this storyline is expanded upon in the future, preferentially in DLCs, so I don't have to wait several years for the next game. At the moment it is just hints and guesswork, but it would be sad if they dropped it alltogether and left it as another loose ending.
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Ark
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Post by Ark on Apr 3, 2017 16:16:00 GMT
To me it made more sense that the Angara were essentially recreated by the Jardaan. That the Jardaan came across a dead (but once living) world, found the remains of Angara civilization, and tried to recreate the species as they terraformed the planet. I'm still not sure how to take one of the post game e-mails found on the meridian terminal. Not sure i'd want to see the Jardaan return. The one that states that the Angara's may essentially be sleeper agents of the Jardaan, ready to receive information via the system that they claim allows them to see past lives. So if the Jardaan return, would they Angara become enemies? can't say I like that direction, but oh well.
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Psychedelic
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Post by Psychedelic on Apr 3, 2017 16:52:52 GMT
To me it made more sense that the Angara were essentially recreated by the Jardaan. That the Jardaan came across a dead (but once living) world, found the remains of Angara civilization, and tried to recreate the species as they terraformed the planet. I'm still not sure how to take one of the post game e-mails found on the meridian terminal. Not sure i'd want to see the Jardaan return. The one that states that the Angara's may essentially be sleeper agents of the Jardaan, ready to receive information via the system that they claim allows them to see past lives. So if the Jardaan return, would they Angara become enemies? can't say I like that direction, but oh well. It is hard to imagine the Jardaan created the Angara without any template, I like the idea they brought them back to life after their extinction. Maybe the Jardaan tried to "repair" some damage, not only the planets, but also their inhabitants. They may have even caused the destruction in the first place, but all the effort to bring them back just out of the goodness of their hearts? That still doesn't mean they don't have any plans with them or try to use them for something. There must be more to it.
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 3, 2017 16:57:49 GMT
The kett seem like Collectors 2.0 to me, honestly.
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