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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 3, 2017 15:31:22 GMT
I thought it was fairly simple to avoid a fair amount of the goofier dialogue. Emotional and the headswirly one seemed to be where it was most concentrated.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 3, 2017 15:31:35 GMT
I haven't watched his review since I didn't beat the game yet (and his reviews are full of spoilers), but I was already calling it, and yeah he gave it a low score. Although I do agree that ME:A especially in its current state is not a very good game, I think he is just biased against this particular game, so pretty much all is gonna be negative for him. I'll still watch the review at some point because they're hilarious (main reason why I watch his videos), but I'd probably disagree with a lot of what he'll say.
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Post by leo3abp on Apr 3, 2017 15:35:00 GMT
I am not sure I can even guess of what nonsense led you to derive that from my post. Elaborate, would you kindly? The original trilogy had its fair share of 'teenage' moments, so ME:A is the same. so between your snarky and supposedly witty comment about asses and me asking to elaborate, you decided to completely avoid discussion and revert to some generic reply, becuase.... you have nothing meaningful to say in defense of objectively subpar, but your beloved game? Ok, but next time if you decide to go snarky against somebody else opinion, at least make sure you have arguments to back it up in a following discussion. And ppl wonder why word "fanboy" is being thrown around... eh....
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 3, 2017 15:35:07 GMT
They werent that buggy true. On that front MEA deserves all the shit it gets. Ofc the antagonists were stronger, they were reapers, they destroyed entire civilizations of the galaxy many times over and controlled its evolutionary paths. The kett couldnt possibly up them, or any other alien Bioware could have come with in this game. If you were expecting something like that again, you were fooling yourselves. The problem is they shoudl ahve done the kett first. When you go from a cthulhu monstrosities to a basic tyrant, it doesnt feel as strong. Now if youre talking about Saren, yes Archon doesnt hold a cake to him, true. Plot: It was. In the first game. Second, not so much. The collector plot was a bare skeleton and a waste of the second part of a trilogy. The companions have had multiple games to grow, not comparable. If anything you should compare it to the first ME. Theyre about the same level IMO. Garrus and Tali didnt get intresting until the second game. What? Wrex, Garrus and Tali were all ridiculously popular from the outset. Hell, that Garrus and Tali were made into possible romances for the sequel tells you all you need to know. I think Jaal was the only really compelling squad mate in that league. Vetra, Drax and PeeBee were all decent (don't get me wrong) but nothing special. Cora/Liam are basically the Kaiden/Ashley of this group, without the benefit of one of the them being dead from this point onward. Can they all get good development going forward? Sure. But I only have first impressions to go on and wasn't that blown away by the squad as a whole. The first Mass Effect game had a better first impression and the Inquisition crew were better overall too IMO. Neither needed another game to win me over. The Reapers were not the only villains but lets face it, if your going to follow them up you need to do a hell of a lot better than the Archon. One of the most bland, uninspired villains ever. He's not in the same league as Saren or the Illusive Man, never mind the Reapers. Furthermore the Kett are just a poor man's Collector, so if you had issues with them then the kett are surely pretty weak. Honestly, the only things about Garrus and Tali that I can recall being remotely enticing were their voices. Wrex and Ashley were the only ones with stronger more memorable personalities.
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Post by armass81 on Apr 3, 2017 15:37:53 GMT
They werent that buggy true. On that front MEA deserves all the shit it gets. Ofc the antagonists were stronger, they were reapers, they destroyed entire civilizations of the galaxy many times over and controlled its evolutionary paths. The kett couldnt possibly up them, or any other alien Bioware could have come with in this game. If you were expecting something like that again, you were fooling yourselves. The problem is they shoudl ahve done the kett first. When you go from a cthulhu monstrosities to a basic tyrant, it doesnt feel as strong. Now if youre talking about Saren, yes Archon doesnt hold a cake to him, true. Plot: It was. In the first game. Second, not so much. The collector plot was a bare skeleton and a waste of the second part of a trilogy. The companions have had multiple games to grow, not comparable. If anything you should compare it to the first ME. Theyre about the same level IMO. Garrus and Tali didnt get intresting until the second game. What? Wrex, Garrus and Tali were all ridiculously popular from the outset. Hell, that Garrus and Tali were made into possible romances for the sequel tells you all you need to know. I think Jaal was the only really compelling squad mate in that league. Vetra, Drax and PeeBee were all decent (don't get me wrong) but nothing special. Cora/Liam are basically the Kaiden/Ashley of this group, without the benefit of one of the them being dead from this point onward. Can they all get good development going forward? Sure. But I only have first impressions to go on and wasn't that blown away by the squad as a whole. The first Mass Effect game had a better first impression and the Inquisition crew were better overall too IMO. Neither needed another game to win me over. The Reapers were not the only villains but lets face it, if your going to follow them up you need to do a hell of a lot better than the Archon. One of the most bland, uninspired villains ever. He's not in the same league as Saren or the Illusive Man, never mind the Reapers. Furthermore the Kett are just a poor man's Collector, so if you had issues with them then the kett are surely pretty weak. They might have been with all the new game hype and wonderment of expeeriencing the ME first time, but IMO, when youre replaying ti again, Garrus and Tali in the first game were... kinda bland. And ive just replayed the first game. I stick to my opinion. They didnt get intresting until the second game. The only good squaddie in that game from the get go was Wrex. I did a break down of it in earlier post of this thread. So on that note, the squad of the ME1, and the squad of this game, to me theyre about on the same level. I did not have issues with the collectors, other than them being mindless puppets to Harbinger and his booming villain voice, its just that the whole plot of introducing them and the intrique around them, it was handled poorly. I have issues witht he kett, I dont like that they pretty much use the same elements as with he reapers (they are made from us), but on the other hand they have a potential to become more intresting if they avoid the "evil empire because of evil" tropes in the future and make them more nuanced and complex, with their vassal races and all. Ive kind seen hints with the whole Primus storyline, there being cracks and all, but where they will take this we have to see. I agree they kinda wasted Archon, I still dont know where they were going with him, seemed like a comic book villain.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 3, 2017 15:40:05 GMT
I haven't watched his review since I didn't beat the game yet (and his reviews are full of spoilers), but I was already calling it, and yeah he gave it a low score. Although I do agree that ME:A especially in its current state is not a very good game, I think he is just biased against this particular game, so pretty much all is gonna be negative for him. I'll still watch the review at some point because they're hilarious (main reason why I watch his videos), but I'd probably disagree with a lot of what he'll say. The score would've gone up if he was really biased, he's a huge fan of the franchise(I mean, the dude is willing to literally spend thousands of dollars in support of it). He very easily could've been a dick and ripped it apart further had he reallly wanted to, it can really be argued he didn't do so because he loves it (the franchise specifically) that much.
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Post by giubba on Apr 3, 2017 15:47:02 GMT
Never disagreed more with a review made by Joe.
I could follow a couple of his point but the vastly majority is utter bullshit
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Post by malgus on Apr 3, 2017 15:49:36 GMT
What? Wrex, Garrus and Tali were all ridiculously popular from the outset. Hell, that Garrus and Tali were made into possible romances for the sequel tells you all you need to know. I think Jaal was the only really compelling squad mate in that league. Vetra, Drax and PeeBee were all decent (don't get me wrong) but nothing special. Cora/Liam are basically the Kaiden/Ashley of this group, without the benefit of one of the them being dead from this point onward. Can they all get good development going forward? Sure. But I only have first impressions to go on and wasn't that blown away by the squad as a whole. The first Mass Effect game had a better first impression and the Inquisition crew were better overall too IMO. Neither needed another game to win me over. The Reapers were not the only villains but lets face it, if your going to follow them up you need to do a hell of a lot better than the Archon. One of the most bland, uninspired villains ever. He's not in the same league as Saren or the Illusive Man, never mind the Reapers. Furthermore the Kett are just a poor man's Collector, so if you had issues with them then the kett are surely pretty weak. They might have been with all the new game hype and wonderment of expeeriencing the ME first time, but IMO, when youre replaying ti again, Garrus and Tali in the first game were... kinda bland. And ive just replayed the first game. I stick to my opinion. They didnt get intresting until the second game. The only good squaddie in that game from the get go was Wrex. So on that note, the squad of the ME1, and the squad of this game, to me theyre about on the same level. Totally agree on that, while I think garrus and tali were all right as squadmates in the first game, they really exploited their potential by the second game. Tali losing her father made her way more interesting in her loyalty mission of ME 2, same for garrus and his revenge quest. Character needs more than one game to express themselves and become more loved by the fanbase, and that is why we cannot compare the mass effect andromeda squadmates to Mass effect trilogy squadmates. The ones of the trilogy had 3 games to be developed and had way more chance to be interesting, the squadmates of andromeda only had one game. If anyone wants to compare the squadmates of MEA with the ones of the trilogy, you should only do it with the characters in their first game. which means if you have to compare jaal to tali, it should be the tali of the first game and ONLY the first, if you compare vetra to garrus it should only be the garrus of the first mass effect. Without their following development of ME 2 or ME 3.
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Post by NUM13ER on Apr 3, 2017 15:50:52 GMT
The antagonist's were far stronger. Yeah, i'm gonna have to disagree there... Harbinger Pic - Star Child PicSo you disliked Harbinger and the Collectors but feel the watered down version of them (The Kett) are somehow more compelling? Haha. The Archon and his minons are are less interesting version of them right down to the abducting people and putting them in pods for processing. The Archon, a villain seemingly designed to make Corypheus look better with hindsight isn't in the same league as Saren. The geth are far more interesting than the Kett and Remnant combined, even when we only knew one side of their story. I'm not even going outside the first Mass Effect or mentioning the Reapers because it's bringing a bazooka to a knife fight. Star Child is part of the worst written 10 minutes of all Mass Effect. You'll get no arguments from me. But for better or worse, he's still more memorable than the Archon.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 3, 2017 15:56:25 GMT
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Post by shechinah on Apr 3, 2017 15:56:39 GMT
I agree with your sentiment, and it was well worded. However I do find it discouraging that Bioware took the writing in this direction, as it seems intentional. Whether it's "market research" and "demographics" that led them to this decision, or they truly believe this writing style is superior, I can't say. But when people praise them for what I consider to be a straight-up drop in quality, I feel compelled to engage and voice my disagreement. If I (and others like me) don't, then there is zero chance Bioware will improve (or change direction). But you can critique the writing without critiquing the audience. Critiquing the audience does not create constructive feedback, in my experiences, and only contribute to making constructive discussions all the more difficult to have. There's a difference between saying "I think the writing surrounding the ME3 endings are terrible and here is why" and "I think the writing surrounding the ME3 endings are terrible and everybody who likes it are idiots and here is why". Critique of an object is about that object, not about the audience of said object.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 3, 2017 16:01:48 GMT
Yeah, i'm gonna have to disagree there... Harbinger Pic - Star Child PicSo you disliked Harbinger and the Collectors but feel the watered down version of them (The Kett) are somehow more compelling? Haha. The Archon and his minons are are less interesting version of them right down to the abducting people and putting them in pods for processing. Never said that. Saren was by far the most interesting antagonist in the trilogy. But when people complain about the Archon and the Kett, I see simply the continuation of a trend, not a further decline.
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Post by pdusen on Apr 3, 2017 16:03:33 GMT
Am I the only one who thinks getting called a fanboy for liking this game is getting really fucking old? Fansboys aren't people who just like the game, they're the ones who will pretend issues aren't there, downplay the complaints, say the criticism from others doesn't matter, or even call people who bring it up as a "hater". There's quite the difference between that and someone who just likes the franchise but is also realistic on the game and what it does correct and what it doesn't. Joe says it in his review, you will have people who are absolute diehards for this franchise who will be "jaded" towards the criticism of the game, their the ones who will downplay issues and give the game a higher score regardless of the issues. Would you not have an issue if someone gave this a 10/10? Cuz it's far from perfect or even a great game. It'd be just as bad as someone giving it a 1/10 and such as they're then so obsessed with the hate that they'll embody every negative thing brought to it and show it to others. People simply just need to be realistic, and if their going to give a 9 and such, give a great explanation to at least give people a reason to understand it, just as those who give it a 4 or 5 need to do the same for their perspectives. the issue literally has nothing to do with people liking the game, it's why they like it as well as how they rate it. This game could be the worst thing ever, I still wouldn't care if someone else liked it, it's going to be why they like it that will get questioned, for emphasis sake. Okay, but nothing you just said has anything to do with the comment I quoted, so...
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 3, 2017 16:07:00 GMT
I will admit one thing. Even though I prefer the lighthearted tone of this game over that of MET. I will say the Archon is not an intimidating threat. I compare him to Saren. He is just kind of there and not really that scary.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 3, 2017 16:09:48 GMT
I'm just going to post this again because apparently it bears repeating Having a difference of opinion does not mean that someone has to be wrong: people like different things. Some people like blood orange and others do not: this does not mean that either party has bad taste, just that they have different tastes. You don't like Mass Effect: Andromeda? That's fine. You hate Mass Effect: Andromeda? That's fine. I like Mass Effect: Andromeda. That's also fine. I love Mass Effect: Andromeda? That's also fine. We simply have different opinions and tastes in games. This isn't a war we need to wage: it's a video game. We may want different things and our feedback might reflect that but there's no reason to start insulting and attacking each other over this. We can have civil conversations and discussions. Direct our feedback at the developers, share and discuss it with other. There's nothing constructive or positive to be gained from making the forums hostile by putting each other down. This applies across the board both to people who feel negatively towards the game and people who feel positively towards the game. I agree with your sentiment, and it was well worded. However I do find it discouraging that Bioware took the writing in this direction, as it seems intentional. Whether it's "market research" and "demographics" that led them to this decision, or they truly believe this writing style is superior, I can't say. But when people praise them for what I consider to be a straight-up drop in quality, I feel compelled to engage and voice my disagreement. If I (and others like me) don't, then there is zero chance Bioware will improve (or change direction). This is at your very last sentence. I don't agree, there's plenty of devs who are top tier yet they still improve. It doesn't take a tanking game for a dev to realize change needs to happen, especially when games at their height can actually pull a 180 and regress at their own will. Just to use the whitcher as one example, has that franchise not improved game by game? I don't recall them needing to tank a game just to have the fans bring up issues to redirect them. So long as the devs listen period, the game can get better, doesn't matter if the game is #1 in the world or #30, it can still get better "if" the devs actually take feedback to heart. its why the comments "I hope this game fails" is outlandish. You're intentionally wishing llharm towards the franchise and risk it getting put down. Hoping the devs listen to critical feedback is one thing, but wanting it to fail commercially is another, especially when it literally doesn't guarantee a fix nor is it needed to help a game improve. I know your post I quoted doesn't actually say you yourself wish commercial failure, but people have taken that to the extreme.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 3, 2017 16:11:40 GMT
The only antagonist I felt was truly worthwhile was TIM in the old trilogy, but was ultimately ruined by indoctrination. The best is Harbinger. ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL. My Shepard enjoyed hearing him talk smack to her.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 3, 2017 16:14:59 GMT
The only antagonist I felt was truly worthwhile was TIM in the old trilogy, but was ultimately ruined by indoctrination. Meh, he was too twirly mustache evil for me to really feel it was worthwhile. It especially didn't deserve an entire chapter of the trilogy. All of ME2 would have worked a lot better as a spin-off where you played as Miranda or Jacob to bring down the Collectors, then maybe ME2 would have had room for an actual plot. Shepard's story really should have stayed focused on the Reapers. Saren was really the only antagonist from the OT that was actually interesting to me. (Reapers were until 2 and 3 but with all the nonsense that they were given in those two games it really watered them down)
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Post by leo3abp on Apr 3, 2017 16:15:19 GMT
Stalking you and each and every post of yours on the forum? No, I am not. You not deserve SO much attention, sorry.
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Post by parnashwind on Apr 3, 2017 16:17:36 GMT
The only antagonist I felt was truly worthwhile was TIM in the old trilogy, but was ultimately ruined by indoctrination. The best is Harbinger. ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL. My Shepard enjoyed hearing him talk smack to her. Oh yeah. The Archon sux when it comes to taunt.
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 3, 2017 16:18:27 GMT
Do you know who they need as a villain? Who I think is one of the best villains in all gaming history. They need to add a Handsome Jack type villain. Someone you love to hate.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 3, 2017 16:21:50 GMT
Stalking you and each and every post of yours on the forum? No, I am not. You not deserve SO much attention, sorry. Yet you feel justified to call me a fanboy because I pointed out that the MET has its fair share of juvenile moments? I'm not sure you understand what a fanboy is.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 3, 2017 16:22:19 GMT
The only antagonist I felt was truly worthwhile was TIM in the old trilogy, but was ultimately ruined by indoctrination. The best is Harbinger. ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL. My Shepard enjoyed hearing him talk smack to her. Kinky
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Post by NUM13ER on Apr 3, 2017 16:24:06 GMT
So you disliked Harbinger and the Collectors but feel the watered down version of them (The Kett) are somehow more compelling? Haha. The Archon and his minons are are less interesting version of them right down to the abducting people and putting them in pods for processing. Never said that. Saren was by far the most interesting antagonist in the trilogy. But when people complain about the Archon and the Kett, I see simply the continuation of a trend, not a further decline. I was arguing the OT had better villains overall. If Harbinger and co were deemed bad in your eyes, the argument the Kett were on par with them or better is pretty dubious. It's much easier to point out the Kett's shortcomings next to the Collectors, not least of all the fact they're a retread, than claim they're on the same level IMO.
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Post by Brannegan on Apr 3, 2017 16:28:10 GMT
It is ironic how people fail to see the main reason behind Joe's criticism, which is as many of us stated again and again are terrible character and dialogue writing, and impossibility to relate to protagonist on screen. If that was not the issue, this game could have scored a solid 8 or even 9, if story and characters were that good, out of 10 even with all its bugs, ui and animation problems, which all can be fixed unlike writing and dialogues. So 6/10 is where this game indeed stands - fun combat, beautiful environment, good performance, a solid foundation for a good game - all that makes half of the game hence half of the score, and its all more or less solid, put animations, some bugs and UI clankyness aside - 5/5 or (4.5/5 if you count in bugs), as for the second half of the score - story, characters, protagonist etc., it is clear 1 or 1.5 out of 5 at best. So 6/10 is what Andromeda really deserves. Sorry for quoting something from pages ago but I just found it funny that my opinion as someone who would call it a 7.5/10 game is so different. What brought my personal score down were the terrible performance* and terrible enemy AI with extremely fluctuating difficulty levels and HP sponges. Ofc the general unpolishedness of the game and bugs also affected my opinion but nowhere near as much as the first two issues. A lot of the auto-dialogue didn't seem to take your chosen personality into account at all either. Good example of this are some of the meetings where even a professional/logical Ryder suddenly became a babbling fool. The planet's main stories also needed hefty expanding. I feel like I barely got introduced to the situations before I was already expected to resolve them. What I liked about the game were the very relatable crew. We had, among others, a religious scientist, a pilot stuck in his past and a general discovering himself and his place in the world. Even the one squadmate who could potentially have continued the ME tradition of daddy issues, Vetra, didn't really suffer from them. I'm also the anomaly that acctually likes the UI apart from the acctual crafting one where the logical folder system seemed to fall apart or the Skyrimesque "compass". Personally, I also found a rookie like Ryder a lot easier to relate with than a war veteran like Shepard, even if Ryder was a bit young for my tastes. I'd like to think Ryder was written childish to make their growth as a person and maturing more noticeable in the future games. I mean, look at DA2. At the start of the game Hawke was in their early 20s and at the end in their 30s, yet there was no noticeable maturing happening in all those years. As for the main plot and Angara as a race. I liked them. There were moments I felt like I was exploring Ilos for the first time again and that was amazing to me. What I've noticed reading forums and reviews, is that the game's story and writing are very divisive. Take for example the Angara/Remnant reveal. Some people scream bad writing at it and other find the implications of it extremely intriguing. Another example is Addison. *My specs are between minimum and recommended and even playing on lowest settings I kept crashing in cutscenes and other various issues like stuttering and textures taking ages to load.
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TRASHCAN Director
4896
0
3,750
Doctor Fumbles
2,658
March 2017
drfumbles
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on Apr 3, 2017 16:31:55 GMT
Here is the thing about ranking a game on story/dialogue. You can't since it is subjective. Technical problems and bad CC are objective based, but writing is purely subjective. I hate romance novels,and I think they read like shit. Too someone else though, they are beautifully written. So lowering a game score because you didn't like the story/dialogue just doesn't fly in my book.
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