WOW those sex scenes are...detailed and well done.

Fox News disagrees. XD

Oh there is no doubt the trend exists. If it hadn't again, I probably wouldn't have cared as much for the discussion at all. And I'm only speaking to what I see in this thread (beyond referencing the social trend) as this is the first time I'm weighing in on this discussion, at least for BioWare games.


No, I have not. "Asking for the sex to be kept to the G level is a double standard, and kinda moronic, from that point of view." You can prefer stuff for yourself all you want. You want to start decreasing content for others based only on your preferences, then we start to have issues. It's no skin off my back what your preferences are. I may disagree but it doesn't affect me so I don't really care. Unless you start trying to make it affect me or pass judgement on it. If we sucessfully establish that neither is the case, we have no beef.

I see. It's a more intellectual discussion on what the overall goal is then. If you come at it from a "primarily combat gameplay" as you've said before or "sci-fi exploration" angle then things not immediately related to that could be said to be gratuitous if present in excess (gratuitous again, in the literal sense of the word). For myself, I see the romance as a unique selling point of the franchise and sex as the normal culmination of most romances, so it's perfectly appropriate for it to evolve. Obviously explicit content is not the only or even the best way for it to evolve, I can agree there too. I would be amenable to an argument along the lines of "simply showing the bangin in more detail doesn't necessarily mean you've improved romances across the board".

In fact I can even admit I find P.B's zero-g hookup (which fades to black) much more intriguing than the explict but "vanilla" scene later. Though there is more emotion added to the latter, the former is just more unusual, therefore interesting. So the explicitness of the latter scene doesn't improve things for me that much. But neither does it detract. It mostly doesn't even enter into it. I just personally disagree with that level of detail being an automatic no-no. If they had put more into the zero-g scene, it would've been perfect. But given their troubles with animating even basic movements and facial expressions outside of the time they got the guy from Uncharted to do it, it probably would've been too much asking them to animate something you can't even see happening in real life.

Insofar as the apparent obligation to put sex scenes in a game goes, yeah.

But I still question the necessity.

Heck, in DAI, people were saying Josephine wasn't a "real" romance because you didn't get to see her nipples. 

I'm trying really hard to come up with a phrase that isn't going to sound condescending or insulting.  So please don't take this the wrong way if it does, but

Is appealing to the lowest common denominator really the way to go?

By which I mean, are we to expect graphic sex scenes at the expense of zombie-like facial expressions in NPCs going forward?  Are boob physics the next big hurdle for Frostbite engines to overcome?

Should we expect a hanar LI in the future and watch the game go full hentai?

*imagines a hanar with a pornstache and shudders*  That image isn't going away anytime soon

Try harder.

Christ, is it even possible for you to talk about this without talking down to people?

AH, but see, one can more easily contrast Addison's "tired face" with Peebee's "Oh-Face".  One could certainly say resources could be reallocated from fetch quests to get better animations.  But the thing is, both sex scenes and NPC conversations are animations, and are more closely related.  The disparity in care taken between the two is quite telling.  Particularly since I'm sure a LOT more people talked to Addison than screwed Peebee.

Sure it's nice to sell to as many people as possible, and make as much money as possible.  But shouldn't quality factor in somewhere.  If Bioware wants to make interactive erotic video games, I say go for it.  But they may want to rebrand first.  Just so people have a better idea what they're purchasing.

As it is, I am told only a minority of players even do the romances.  Which again asks, why sink so many resources into "pretty good banging"?  Particularly when other area are demonstrably less polished? (anyone else suspicious how they got a patch out so soon after release.  ALmost like they were still polishing even as it went out the door...)


The hanar thing was meant to be semihumorous (thus the "hanar with a pornstache" thing).  But is meant to demonstrate that, yes even in "M" rated material there is a sliding scale of what people may or may not prefer to see play out before them.  

I don't need to explain how those movies could be made without including violence, since I never claimed that violence on film or in a game is always gratuitous. That wasn't what was said in the bolded section above.

Portrayals of violence in film or games, much like sex, can either be warranted in the story or gratuitous.

Was seeing a Kadaran Outcast's head explode after using your sniper rifle an essential element to Andromeda's gameplay or story? An argument could be made that it was at least as unnecessary as nudity during the romance scenes. Heads don't need to explode to to convey to the player that they've killed that character, just as nudity isn't absolutely essential to conveying that two characters have become intimately involved within the story. Exploding heads is even arguably an example of over-the-top gore included just for it's own sake, since people shot in the head typically don't have their entire head destroyed.

To be clear, I personally don't have a problem with some portrayals of graphic violence in Mass Effect games, just like I don't have a problem with slight nudity during romance scenes. I just find it curious that the gratuitous content complaints seem to be always centered on the nudity rather than the violence. What other explanation for that except that we've been desensitized to fictional portrayals of violence to the extent where it barely gets noticed, while we remain somewhat squeamish about portrayals of sex on screen? Violence is clearly worse than sex, so people should find the gore to be more objectionable.

I'm also not mocking anyone when using the word squeamish. My criticism in this thread was aimed entirely at American (or Western) culture, not individuals posting.

Interactions with Addison are trivial and mean little in the grand scheme of the gameplay experience, interactions with your squadmates, particularly your chosen romance option are not. I enjoy games with very basic graphical character design (and I know you do too, since you play TToN) but if in those games character interactions, or plot, or whatever element felt especially crucial to the gameplay fell flat, than what would be left to enjoy?

Obviously more work was put into romance scenes than into NPC animations. Why? Did BW lose contact with their audience? While I see complaints about animations, I do not see much (or any) complaining about the style and quality of the sex scenes outside of the few voices in this thread. I do see praise, and so I infer that it's something "people" enjoyed. But obviously I can't speak for the entire community so I'm only stating my opinion, though I have reasons to suspect it is shared by many.

As for romances including graphic sex being a recent development - the reason for that is right there in your post - graphical limitations of engines, as well as stronger (and stricter) "moral guardian" influence in the olden days. Certainly some developers choose not to include it, but I doubt BW would have shied away if they had the means to depict it in a visually appealing way. Plus, as I said, there is the increase in popular demand. From "people", I assume.

I'll reiterate that I see nothing immature about the inclusion of sex and graphic nudity in MEA. Romance doesn't have to equal sex, but neither does sex equal juvenile, gratuitous (starting to hate this word) content.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to retire, it is quite late where I'm at and I have to be up early tomorrow.

Got some nerve, coming in here making all this sense.

Away with you!

Though I will say, I think there's some recycling already. I've only seen them once but I think some of the, well... thrusting animations for Cora and P.B. are the same. And there's definitely recycling between P.B. and male/female Ryders though some jimmies were rustled on that one.

I'd say interactions with Addison are quite important, as talking with her several times seems to be vital in advancing the storyline.  In addition to other NPCs.  Interactions with companions and LIs are of couse, important as well.  But different people are going to interact with them in differing amounts.  Some people will of course romance Jaal.  Others will ignore him.

A game that had cr*ppy story, or characters would not be saved by a detailed sex scene, imo.  And having such a detailed scene when we had zombie Addison, an army of asari clones and generally cr*ppy facial expressions all across the rest of the game kinda tells me Bioware doesn't take its audience seriously.  That they didn't we don't care about character interactions aside from #prettygoodbanging.  To me, spicing up the sex scenes should have been down near the BOTTOM of their  to-do list.  And making the base game as polished as possible should have been the priority.  

Heck, if we could have bent Addison over her desk, I wonder if she'd have gotten as good a face as Cora and Peebee?

You know, the more I think about it the more I realize that my personal issue lies primarily with the fact that, all things considered, I don't find the game all that spectacular. However, as I've mentioned before, it has little to do with animations, and so those being top-notch wouldn't have saved it for me. The squad interactions and the sex on the other hand kinda do. Save it, that is. To an extent. Well, they make it enjoyable. A MEA with every NPC mocapped but without the romances and sex would have been a 4.5/10. It just doesn't have that much else going for it.

In case it matters what my grievances with it are, the story is dull and linear, choices meaningless, and combat clunky. Not things you can exactly polish by reallocating sex scene resources.

Of course, this epiphany doesn't change my stance on the inclusion of romances and sex in games in general. The ideal situation would obviously be having a good game with deep romances and tasteful but fairly explicit sex scenes. 

As for Addison, I doubt it. Just look at Reyes, Suvi and Gil.

That only supports his point.