stysiaq
N3
Gigavorcha Breeder
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: Stysiaq
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Post by stysiaq on Apr 6, 2017 15:53:55 GMT
Fact 1. In the game you can hear an Angaran diplomat engaging in a pretty embarassing exchange about how to address an Asari (with male or female pronouns).
Fact 2. The whole "use X Y pronouns when speaking to me" makes the english-speaking internet users look like idiots. Seriously, when I squat in my tracksuit in front of my potato-powered machine turn my head for a while and look at my family that usually is outside playing football with a half-rotten cabbage inbetween singing folk songs I just load up twitter or tumblr and look for an american account that says sth like "pronouns: them/xer/bazzir" and suddenly I feel like sure, I breathe in cancer from burning asbestos and coal every day but at least I'm not THAT retarded.
Fact 3. In Mass Effect aliens communicate with each other by using their own native language and the universal translator makes it sound as a language comprehended by the user.
Fact 4. Asari society, being single-gendered, would have no incentive to develop female/male pronouns before making it to space travel. Therefore, when you'd address an Asari in any language that has them, the Asari in question would hear a sentence in Asari language - so, in a language WITHOUT the pronoun, or with a genderless one.
In other words, the whole speech of an Asari lecturing an Angaran on "preferred pronouns" of an Asari has severe logical consequences. It doesn't make sense, because Asari shouldn't hear pronouns in the first place, even if Angaran language has them. So, in order to be appealing to probably the most embarassing part of modern anglo-saxon society the game decides the whole concept of translator should be thrown under the bus and doesn't need to follow basic logic of linguistic development of single-gendered omni-coital species.
Are you with me, BSN? I want ME universe to make sense again. I'm not suggesting the exchange should be cut from the game; just don't make an Asari say it. Have an, I don't know, a confused Krogan do it. Hell, have Ryder talk with this Angaran and correct pronouns, demanding the Angaran to use those usually associated with attack helicopters. I'm glad that BioWare can address concerns of transgender community that wasn't satisfied with an NPC that left all the Milky Way bigots along with his/her penis behind a wall of 600 years of cryosleep. I think that this constitutes a stunning number of ~0.5% players. Now, what about some pandering to the "I want the universe to make sense" community? I think I deserve that!
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 6, 2017 15:56:25 GMT
Hehe, I agree that of all the races to worry about pro-noun usage the Asari would be the one least likely to give a flying frack. That sort of stuff would be for all those less evolved species to worry about.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 6, 2017 15:59:43 GMT
Hehe, I agree that of all the races to worry about pro-noun usage the Asari would be the one less likely to give a flying frack. That sort of stuff would be for all those less evolved species to worry about. Which I already stated numerous times... so glad BW apologized to the snowflakes and Kotaku, though. I guess the apology to their FANS for releasing a an unfinished, sloppy game at full price will be next, right?
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FireAndBlood
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FireAndBlood on Apr 6, 2017 15:59:53 GMT
Since I doubt any real life Asari got offended no I don't think they will.
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projectME
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Post by projectME on Apr 6, 2017 16:12:00 GMT
Interesting. It almost seems as though the person who wrote the script never played ME:T
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danishgambit
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A master of his game
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by danishgambit on Apr 6, 2017 16:15:38 GMT
Hehe, I agree that of all the races to worry about pro-noun usage the Asari would be the one less likely to give a flying frack. That sort of stuff would be for all those less evolved species to worry about. Which I already stated numerous times... so glad BW apologized to the snowflakes and Kotaku, though. I guess the apology to their FANS for releasing a an unfinished, sloppy game at full price will be next, right? They should apologize. I can't remember the last time Bioware made a game that didn't include some hamfisted dialogue. They insist on inserting gender politics in every fucking game and it's done poorly EVERY SINGLE TIME. They have to set up some grandiose scene where it's stupid obvious that they want to preach to us about something no one needs or wants to hear. Every game has some unicorn preacher from the pulpit of the holier than thou church of tumbr and we have to sit there and listen to it. It's poorly done and they need to either let someone who knows what they're doing write this stuff or hang it up. It's become a joke at this point.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 6, 2017 16:24:46 GMT
I agree, but you know I was wondering this a bit when Patriarch was introduced in ME2.
Aria says the word has no meaning for her people but wouldn't the Asari word for Matriarch not have gendered connotations?
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Post by jackdaniel on Apr 6, 2017 16:34:11 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy?
If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not?
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 6, 2017 16:36:30 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy? If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not? By human standards yes. By Asari standards I would imagine they just see themselves as Asari, not as female Asari.
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Post by NormandySR3 on Apr 6, 2017 16:40:42 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy? If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not? If you start asking those questions, you may find it necessary to suspend disbelief even further in order to enjoy the game. Gender is by definition complimentary. Having female parts does not make sense without the male counterpart.
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,849 Likes: 13,555
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Post by Heimdall on Apr 6, 2017 16:41:09 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy? If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not? They would be considered asexual because they do not require a partner to reproduce, technically. They don't actually take genetic material, they just randomize the genetic information a bit when they meld to trigger the pregnancy. (Or at least that was the explanation as of ME2 and ME3, for some reason there's dialogue resurrecting the whole "take genetic material from other species" bit that was discarded after ME1 in this game) The asari developed as a culture of only one gender, the male-female dichotomy in human cultures would not exist in their understanding of themselves. So they would not regard themselves as female.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 6, 2017 16:41:10 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy? If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not? Why would they be mammals?
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Post by jackdaniel on Apr 6, 2017 16:43:30 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy? If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not? By human standards yes. By Asari standards I would imagine they just see themselves as Asari, not as female Asari. they might have different cultural norm, but having the concept of two or more gender shouldn't be foreign to them, unless there everything on thessia is monogender. And about the language, Chinese is gender neutral while most western languages are not, but translating between them isn't a issue.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 6, 2017 16:43:30 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy? If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not? If you start asking those questions, you will find it necessary to suspend disbelief even further in order to enjoy the game. Gender is by definition complimentary. Female-only does not make sense without male. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_whiptail
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Post by jackdaniel on Apr 6, 2017 16:45:26 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy? If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not? Why would they be mammals? I don't know, maybe they are not. I just assumed they are due to having boobie, and makes it easier for me to romance liara
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 6, 2017 16:47:20 GMT
Why would they be mammals? I don't know, maybe they are not. I just assumed they are due to having boobie, and makes it easier for me to romance liara But mammals are from earth.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 6, 2017 16:47:28 GMT
By human standards yes. By Asari standards I would imagine they just see themselves as Asari, not as female Asari. they might have different cultural norm, but having the concept of two or more gender shouldn't be foreign to them, unless there everything on thessia is monogender. And about the language, Chinese is gender neutral while most western languages are not, but translating between them isn't a issue. Agreed, I'm sure they understand the concept of gender. Whether from other life on their home worlds or at the very least contact they have had for a long time with other aliens like Turians, etc. I just don't see them worrying about applying those same concepts to themselves. To an Asari an Asai would just be an Asari. If that makes sense.
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myalzalean
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Don't tell my wife I'm here
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Don't tell my wife I'm here
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Post by myalzalean on Apr 6, 2017 16:48:39 GMT
I guess the apology to their FANS for releasing a an unfinished, sloppy game at full price will be next, right? I think this has been said by at least one person about every AAA video game title ever released.
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Post by jackdaniel on Apr 6, 2017 16:50:46 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy? If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not? They would be considered asexual because they do not require a partner to reproduce, technically. They don't actually take genetic material, they just randomize the genetic information a bit when they meld to trigger the pregnancy. (Or at least that was the explanation as of ME2 and ME3, for some reason there's dialogue resurrecting the whole "take genetic material from other species" bit that was discarded after ME1 in this game) The asari developed as a culture of only one gender, the male-female dichotomy in human cultures would not exist in their understanding of themselves. So they would not regard themselves as female. I think it's plausible that they might observe other sexually reproductive specie, create a concept of gender and apply it to themselves. Just a thought
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 6, 2017 16:51:23 GMT
I guess the apology to their FANS for releasing a an unfinished, sloppy game at full price will be next, right? I think this has been said by at least one person about every AAA video game title ever released. Yea, and sometimes it is even true, like this time. ...besides: Doesn't that statement alone make you sad?
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Post by jackdaniel on Apr 6, 2017 16:54:05 GMT
I don't know, maybe they are not. I just assumed they are due to having boobie, and makes it easier for me to romance liara But mammals are from earth. you don't have to restrict definition of mammal to just those from earth. If you don't like applying term to alien, are they mammal like or mammalian?
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myalzalean
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Don't tell my wife I'm here
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Don't tell my wife I'm here
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Post by myalzalean on Apr 6, 2017 16:56:36 GMT
I think this has been said by at least one person about every AAA video game title ever released. Yea, and sometimes it is even true, like this time. ...besides: Doesn't that statement alone make you sad? Yeah, you keep bringing me down, just stop. In all seriousness though, seeing how video games are already getting watered down to get them out on the shelves in a timely profitable manner I can overlook the linguistics inconsistencies as long as they concentrate on more game play related issues. All this talk about translators and whatnot reminds me of how dull Arrival was and I don't want that anywhere near my video games.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2017 16:56:39 GMT
I m confused, are they singled gendered, as in all female? Or just have no gender. Are they even mammals? Give birth? Have pregnancy? If they have all the parts that we associate with female mammal, that would make them female, would it not? They're a single biological sex and all female, and because that concepts like gender identity had little cultural meaning for them. Or at least that was the case in the original trilogy. The ambient dialogue in ME:A made at least that one Asari less alien. They're not mammals, because mammals are a class of animals that evolved on Earth. At best they share some similar traits with mammals due to convergent evolution.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 6, 2017 16:57:03 GMT
But mammals are from earth. you don't have to restrict definition of mammal to just those from earth. If you don't like applying term to alien, are they mammal like or mammalian? But mammals have a distinct evolutionary path on earth that made them, eventually, become mammals. It's highly unlikely that the same thing happened on Thessia with the Asari and whatever protospecies they came from if. At best, they are mammal like. But any resemblences will be superficial, at best. Like the boobs.
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Post by NormandySR3 on Apr 6, 2017 16:57:55 GMT
If you start asking those questions, you will find it necessary to suspend disbelief even further in order to enjoy the game. Gender is by definition complimentary. Female-only does not make sense without male. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Mexico_whiptailAsari do not have the same body parts as a reptile. So your analogy is not entirely appropriate. Asari have parts consistent with mammals (such as breasts, vagaina, etc.), hence implying the need for a male counterpart.
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