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Post by doch on Apr 8, 2017 7:45:47 GMT
This guy makes some good, and applicable points as to why Ryder and crew can be forgettable.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Apr 8, 2017 8:11:08 GMT
SAM is one of the most annoying things in the game. Not only is he talking bullcrap all the time, he's also a Deus Ex Machina. Because anytime we face any kind obstacle it goes like this - "Pathfinder I may find a solution if you scan xxxxxx". It's just ridiculous and sloppy. Basically almost everything we did in the whole game will be entirely impossible if it wasn't for this stupid AI. This is a completely stupid point. The AI is just technology - none of the story would have been possible without impossible ftl travel, cryogenics, spacesuits, space ships, broken laws of physics, element zero... the AI is an interesting look at the melding of technology and human and it's impossible-ness melds well with the rest of the impossible-ness.
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Post by jpcab on Apr 8, 2017 10:49:55 GMT
Sam is just another failed "carachter".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 11:19:42 GMT
Bender: Get out of here freshman, I don't need your help! Robot 1X: Our owners asked us to assist you. Bender: Yeah? Well assist this! [falls off roof] [Robot 1X catches Bender] Bender: Ohhh! When I screamed help, I didn't mean you! Robot 1X: I apologize. However, I was able to do your job, before I saved your life.
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Post by Serza on Apr 8, 2017 11:40:12 GMT
Problem is, Letalis is a Witcher fan to the core. With some of this stuff, I believe it goes to the point that Witcher is perceived as the only good RPG there is.
He even makes a mistake when he says "Whatever that Meridian thing is" while clearly meaning Khi Tasira. Didn't take the effort to say the right name? Fine, I guess. But I wouldn't know what he's talking about if I didn't figure out he's mixing two completely different things.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 11:44:10 GMT
Problem is, Letalis is a Witcher fan to the core. With some of this stuff, I believe it goes to the point that Witcher is perceived as the only good RPG there is. He even makes a mistake when he says "Whatever that Meridian thing is" while clearly meaning Khi Tasira. Didn't take the effort to say the right name? Fine, I guess. But I wouldn't know what he's talking about if I didn't figure out he's mixing two completely different things. Makes you wonder if he got all his knowledge of the game by watching Youtube videos of it.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 8, 2017 12:28:06 GMT
They just need to put anyone other than Mac Walters on the Creative Director pedestal and Andromeda 2 will automatically improve.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 8, 2017 13:15:33 GMT
Problem is, Letalis is a Witcher fan to the core. With some of this stuff, I believe it goes to the point that Witcher is perceived as the only good RPG there is. He even makes a mistake when he says "Whatever that Meridian thing is" while clearly meaning Khi Tasira. Didn't take the effort to say the right name? Fine, I guess. But I wouldn't know what he's talking about if I didn't figure out he's mixing two completely different things. Oh, so because he is on the "Witcher Bandwagon" nothing sensible he says when objetively observing the plot of a BioWare games has any validity, is that it? There's only one thing worse than the Witcher overhype and it's the fans that close their ears as soon as someone mentions that game.
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Post by supersomething on Apr 8, 2017 13:44:28 GMT
Always seemed a little off putting when people were singing my praises and I'm over here like... well if SAM wasn't here we would all be screwed. Basically Ryder could die and it wouldn't matter as long as the SAM is kept intact. Shepard at least had that going for him. He and his crew were the only ones that actively fought the reapers, and knew they were coming and they were doing whatever they could to mitigate the threat. He and his entire crew were essential.
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Post by Serza on Apr 8, 2017 16:24:59 GMT
Problem is, Letalis is a Witcher fan to the core. With some of this stuff, I believe it goes to the point that Witcher is perceived as the only good RPG there is. He even makes a mistake when he says "Whatever that Meridian thing is" while clearly meaning Khi Tasira. Didn't take the effort to say the right name? Fine, I guess. But I wouldn't know what he's talking about if I didn't figure out he's mixing two completely different things. Makes you wonder if he got all his knowledge of the game by watching Youtube videos of it. Makes you wonder if you're not making the wrong assumptions. Sometimes, people who dislike Witcher 3 actually have a completionist run to back their opinion up. Problem is, Letalis is a Witcher fan to the core. With some of this stuff, I believe it goes to the point that Witcher is perceived as the only good RPG there is. He even makes a mistake when he says "Whatever that Meridian thing is" while clearly meaning Khi Tasira. Didn't take the effort to say the right name? Fine, I guess. But I wouldn't know what he's talking about if I didn't figure out he's mixing two completely different things. Oh, so because he is on the "Witcher Bandwagon" nothing sensible he says when objetively observing the plot of a BioWare games has any validity, is that it? There's only one thing worse than the Witcher overhype and it's the fans that close their ears as soon as someone mentions that game. My point is - Letalis doesn't seem to see any shortcomings about the Witcher. As a fan, you should realize whatever you like isn't perfect. See, Addison's face was really screwed up, then it got better. What else can I think of. Oh, yeah. Peebee's loyalty. It seems built around showing journalists the game, which results in a clusterfuck of Captain Obviousness. It simply makes me take any of his criticism with my eyes narrowed and looking for where he's right and where he's picking at bullshit. Mistaking Meridian for Khi Tasira is not an act of someone who is unconditionally immersed and knowledgeable of the game. It is an act of someone who finished it, but as a casual player more than a fan. I'm sure he'd be able to name all of the Witcher locations I have long-since forgotten - and I've played all three of those games. Long story short - he has to work extra at his arguments with me. Mostly because of this bullshit where he doesn't even bother fact checking.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 8, 2017 16:32:27 GMT
But most of his arguments regarding the plot are fine. He does not mention Witcher as some glorified excuse to say this game sucks in this video so maybe you shouldn't even bring that up either as if it has any bearing on his actual arguments here.
I know him and sad people like StarduskLP talk about Witcher 3 as if there's nothing wrong with it which is laughable, but I think Witcher 3 is a fantastic example of a game that does story super well on a AAA scale and reactive narrative, good roleplaying etc.
Specifically regarding the PLOT, Andromeda is pathetic. You may subjectively like some things in it like the admittedly awesome final level but as a story I just can't see how you'd think this was any good.
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Post by capn233 on Apr 8, 2017 16:38:00 GMT
I wish I could have upgraded SAM's voice to be more natural.
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Post by Rochrok on Apr 8, 2017 17:21:31 GMT
I agree with that video, here's another one from Game Sins which calls out even more issues with the plot. The game was decent, I give it a 6/10. But there were so many things wrong with it besides the animations. I just hope they hire a new set of competent writers because so far I'm not digging the new story or villains so far.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 8, 2017 17:27:58 GMT
He does bring valid points. I've talked about SAM enough already, but for the others Zero explanations given on how Ryder now can control Remnants without Sam. So now everyone control them like that? Ryder somehow learned by looking at Sam doing it's magic? Nobody even seems surprised, "you don't need Sam anymore for that? Ok, cool, don't overdo it". Why Archon can't use his fleet to do what he wants to do? Well, angara on Voeld are hiding, it's hard to destroy their base if they run around the planet all the time. But Initiative? They just put the flag and Kett magically ignore it. It went to absurd levels on Eos - Kett and Initiative have bases 1km apart and both sides pretend it's fine. I agree with that video, here's another one from Game Sins which calls out even more issues with the plot. The game was decent, I give it a 6/10. But there were so many things wrong with it besides the animations. I just hope they hire a new set of competent writers because so far I'm not digging the new story or villains so far. The guy didn't bother to read any single Codex entry. MEA is full of problems, but if you want to critisize lore inconsistencies - check out the lore first.
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Post by Rochrok on Apr 8, 2017 17:52:44 GMT
I agree with that video, here's another one from Game Sins which calls out even more issues with the plot. The game was decent, I give it a 6/10. But there were so many things wrong with it besides the animations. I just hope they hire a new set of competent writers because so far I'm not digging the new story or villains so far. The guy didn't bother to read any single Codex entry. MEA is full of problems, but if you want to critisize lore inconsistencies - check out the lore first. It sounds like he got it about right to me. Anything specific you think he messed up on?
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 8, 2017 17:57:16 GMT
"It went to absurd levels on Eos - Kett and Initiative have bases 1km apart and both sides pretend it's fine."
They have the Strike Team narrative. And we shouldn't take the zone maps to be exact, ever.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 8, 2017 18:23:06 GMT
The guy didn't bother to read any single Codex entry. MEA is full of problems, but if you want to critisize lore inconsistencies - check out the lore first. It sounds like he got it about right to me. Anything specific you think he messed up on? Age of data on Heleus - it's 600 years. How did they get to Andromeda - magic ODSY drive. Scourge nature never explained - it was, albeit not very specific, but we know if they get very specific they just screw up with all science stuff. Why Moshae wasn't exalted - because exalted forget their previous lives, although it's troublesome with angara genetic memory and they get little bits of it back. "It went to absurd levels on Eos - Kett and Initiative have bases 1km apart and both sides pretend it's fine." They have the Strike Team narrative. And we shouldn't take the zone maps to be exact, ever. Which have nothing to do with it, nor outpost nor kett base are attacked without Ryder. Except Roekaar quest, where a few of angara shuttles could apparently destroy entire military outpost, thankfully, Ryder was able to get all them single-handedly. And why is that? If there is no sense for Kett base to be there - move it separate location, like kett base on Voeld.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 8, 2017 19:27:40 GMT
He does bring valid points. I've talked about SAM enough already, but for the others Zero explanations given on how Ryder now can control Remnants without Sam. So now everyone control them like that? Ryder somehow learned by looking at Sam doing it's magic? Nobody even seems surprised, "you don't need Sam anymore for that? Ok, cool, don't overdo it". There is actually a very easily missed line about it. Basically, something about how activating Remnant with SAM has stimulated the part of Ryder's brain that does it and so Ryder can do it but not without causing harm to themselves form the strain. Like I said, it's a very easily missed line and it's pretty much just an excuse for Ryder to be able to do this.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 8, 2017 19:31:40 GMT
Problem is, Letalis is a Witcher fan to the core. With some of this stuff, I believe it goes to the point that Witcher is perceived as the only good RPG there is. He even makes a mistake when he says "Whatever that Meridian thing is" while clearly meaning Khi Tasira. Didn't take the effort to say the right name? Fine, I guess. But I wouldn't know what he's talking about if I didn't figure out he's mixing two completely different things.Oh, so because he is on the "Witcher Bandwagon" nothing sensible he says when objetively observing the plot of a BioWare games has any validity, is that it? There's only one thing worse than the Witcher overhype and it's the fans that close their ears as soon as someone mentions that game. It seemed less to do with Letalis apparently being a Witcher fan and more to do with Letalis apparently mistaking Khi Tasira for Miridian. I've bolded that portion of Serza's post.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 8, 2017 19:58:03 GMT
He does make mistakes but he also points out how fucking vague the plot is by mistaking it because it's constantly like that. You have some thing in your head that constnatly does magic things and you're supposed to give a fuck about whether he's activating something called The Meridian which gives us everything we needed to make worlds habitable or if he's activating a Vault which terraforms a planet or whether he actiavtes Khi Tasira which awakens some ancient Jardaan thing.
And just again, The "Jardaan"? There's barely any elaboration on this outside of completely optional dialogues. It's about as uninteresting as the ExoGeni Thorians in a side mission of ME1 but it's the Neo-Protheans/Reapers and they even start calling them "gods" or "Like gods" afterwards which is just the subtext thrown right at the screen with zero subtlety.
I know for any series, no matter how bad or stupid it gets, whether it's the new Ace Attorneys or the final seasons of LOST there will always be the kind of super-passionate fans that dive really into it that are so obsessed with nerdlore that they can't see the forest for the trees, and that's what this is. Yeah, sure, there's a discrepancy of whether one thing is Meridian or Khi Tasira cuz one is a giant Terraforming network and another is some portable alien weapon-race whateverz, but the game just doesn't give you a reason to care or remember.
They hammer down what the Protheans are in ME1 in sync to your excitement and awe over how alien everything is. We hear about them in the very beginning and then just in case we didn't catch what those weird "Relays" did or what that strange "Prothean Beacon" was, we go to the Citadel, cue wonderful music and cinema and equally excited reactions from the crew and we're like "wow... what is that place?" and we're reminded "The Protheans made this" which reaffirms why it matters what the Protheans are and how that makes the lore interesting.
There's just such a lack of meaningful context in this game. We're 600 years away from any sense of contemporary-ness of setting; that's one thing that always captivated me about the trilogy, that we're only 150 years away from now and it's based in real life of 2007 where the fiction begins from then on and into the future until we disover aliens and their technology and we have a super relatable setting for an IP. All of that is gone. It's just fragments of our beloved IP that's been transfered to a completely foreign setting and the story does jack shit with it but introduce a bunch of cookie-cutter sci-fi tropes and magical devices and 2 new races I didn't really care about because A: the art design sucks and B: They might as well have been in the Milky Way with how they're just another human-like race and the game squanders all its potential to make it feel like "we are the aliens".
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Post by Rochrok on Apr 8, 2017 20:14:13 GMT
It sounds like he got it about right to me. Anything specific you think he messed up on? Age of data on Heleus - it's 600 years. How did they get to Andromeda - magic ODSY drive. Scourge nature never explained - it was, albeit not very specific, but we know if they get very specific they just screw up with all science stuff. Why Moshae wasn't exalted - because exalted forget their previous lives, although it's troublesome with angara genetic memory and they get little bits of it back. Well, that's fairly minor lore. The plot itself for how these things are possible is still weak. The age of the data being 600 years old is true, but it makes no sense when science gets involved. The odsy drive is still poor writing, especially when you consider that they left around ME1 yet none of the ships in ME2 to ME 3 have this better drive. He did bring up that the Scourge is never explained. But the plot using it was poorly implemented. ie. Suddenly being pinned down by it when you just came out of FTL in the same direction. The Moshae point is good. I forgot they lose a part of themselves when they are exalted.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 8, 2017 21:09:19 GMT
SAM is one of the most annoying things in the game. Not only is he talking bullcrap all the time, he's also a Deus Ex Machina. Because anytime we face any kind obstacle it goes like this - "Pathfinder I may find a solution if you scan xxxxxx". It's just ridiculous and sloppy. Basically almost everything we did in the whole game will be entirely impossible if it wasn't for this stupid AI. So when SAM was offline for the playable Ryder and Ryder made things happen....? Playable Ryder can use Remnant tech (eventually) even without SAM. This suggests Ryder is much more capable and competent than you want to allow credit for.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 8, 2017 21:14:16 GMT
This guy makes some good, and applicable points as to why Ryder and crew can be forgettable. If TIM and Miranda Lawson hadn't discovered the "Jesus Gene" then Shepard would never have been resurrected. In fact, without this magical resurrection that was impossible for anyone else at all, there would have been no Mass Effect games featuring Shepard beyond the first one.
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Post by Dean The Not-so Young on Apr 8, 2017 22:17:35 GMT
SAM is one of the most annoying things in the game. Not only is he talking bullcrap all the time, he's also a Deus Ex Machina. Because anytime we face any kind obstacle it goes like this - "Pathfinder I may find a solution if you scan xxxxxx". It's just ridiculous and sloppy. Basically almost everything we did in the whole game will be entirely impossible if it wasn't for this stupid AI. So basically just like EDI, but with a less sexy voice and more voice prompts for the new scanner function.
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Post by Melcara on Apr 8, 2017 22:32:18 GMT
SAM is one of the most annoying things in the game. Not only is he talking bullcrap all the time, he's also a Deus Ex Machina. Because anytime we face any kind obstacle it goes like this - "Pathfinder I may find a solution if you scan xxxxxx". It's just ridiculous and sloppy. Basically almost everything we did in the whole game will be entirely impossible if it wasn't for this stupid AI. So when SAM was offline for the playable Ryder and Ryder made things happen....? Playable Ryder can use Remnant tech (eventually) even without SAM. This suggests Ryder is much more capable and competent than you want to allow credit for. I would acknowledge this if it made any sense. But it doesn’t. It makes ZERO sense. It’s stated throughout the whole game that Ryder needs SAM to interact with the Remnant tech, and all of a sudden they don’t? How? Why? As far as I know, they never even bothered to explain it.
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