Gileadan
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 1, 2016 12:03:09 GMT
None of these panels are a surprise. They are safe BioWare topics that keep the conversation away from MEA. Yeah, "safe" seems to be BioWare's watchword in recent years. I still don't get why they'd want to keep the audience's attention away from MEA though. If I go to a BioWare panel, it's because I like BioWare games and want to know more about them. It will not make me like Battlefield or Titanfall any more or any less. This line of thought is a complete headscratcher to me. One of my daughters is a junior programmer, the only female programmer in her study class. The 'women in tech' topic is absolutely legit. Totally. I've read an article by a female dev a few years ago where she stated that even if you tried, you couldn't create even a single AAA dev studio with a female-only staff, simply because you wouldn't find enough female software engineers. I know of a few small dev studios that explicitly make "games by women for women" (Silicon Sisters, for example), but even they have the occasional male among their staff, and their games are meant for the mobile platform and barely a step above visual novels. It's an interesting topic... one that I'd actually attend if I lived on the right continent... or were rich enough. Your daughter is special then. I wonder if EA would consider development process to be proprietary and therefore under NDA. Similarly, hard to talk about gameplay when the last example they have is DAI, and that's 2 years old now. Well, they could give us a glimpse of the future instead. Like showing us how they improved the handling of the Mako, something that could be done without any spoilers in a little demo arena to drive around in. Or improvements to gunplay! Though it wouldn't be unlike BioWare/EA to keep development under NDA, I guess. I don't get a big feeling of transparency from them. I take most of the few things I know about game development from the Cloud Imperium Games / Foundry 42, the team that makes Star Citizen, since I'm one of their NDA testers. And these guys are the exact opposite - they even have a show called "Bugsmashers" where you can see one of their devs freely scroll around in the source code to demonstrate where a certain bug was located, what effect it had and how it was eliminated. It's a bit of a shame, I think BioWare could share a few interesting bits too.
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Post by goishen on Sept 1, 2016 12:23:04 GMT
This is the reason that I watch The Patch, I used to watch X Play (I think) with Morgan Webb, anything where it has commentary from a bunch'a dudes. Guys have a tendency to revert back to the "git gud" mentality. Ashley Jenkins, even though she was a pro-gamer (CS I think?), still provides a different perspective on gaming as a whole, and where it's going. I only wish that Meg Turney wouldn't have left, because she was brilliant, too. And Morgan Webb, well... Hell, she was the first woman I know of to be on camera giving reviews of video games.
Like it or not, women are here. Better get used to it.
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Post by havox on Sept 1, 2016 12:42:59 GMT
Interesting difference of perception. I work in Eastern Europe, I've never heard about discrimination based on sex, but there is plenty based on age. Nobody wants to hire old people few years away from retirement. Luckily not in my company.
That said, better get used to it, I wish. Current project has one female front-end developer and one back-end developer as a rare exception, but generally in my company it's a total sausagefest. Walk up to reception, or into HR department, or Finances, it'll be 100% female. But programming, nope. Not that we wouldn't want to hire female programmers, we have job openings all the time, there just aren't many.
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Post by Evamitchelle on Sept 1, 2016 12:54:19 GMT
Bioware's in a sort of in-between state lately: they're obviously being tight-lipped about MEA, and neither the secret IP nor DA4 have been officially announced yet so they have to stick to general topics or past games. It could also be that Laidlaw and Weekes are the only devs with enough time to spare. (Not sure what a localization producer does). Here's an example of what their previous Pax schedules looked like (note how they had a lot more events going on than they do this time): blog.bioware.com/?s=paxAnd here's a few of their past panels: - Weekes and Epler on Trespasser's writing process at GDC 2016: - The Art & Inspiration of DAI at GDC 2015: The GDC Vault in general is a good place to find their previous panels (they also have a Youtube channel): www.gdcvault.com/search.php#&category=free&firstfocus=&keyword=bioware&conference_id=
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Post by Amirit on Sept 1, 2016 16:50:38 GMT
One of my daughters is a junior programmer, the only female programmer in her study class. The 'women in tech' topic is absolutely legit. Just out of curiosity - how did it happen? The teacher forbade all other girls to participate? Or other girls did not show any interest in programming? Because if it is the latter - I do not see why it has to be the huge social problem discussed instead of game related topics. None of these panels are a surprise. They are safe BioWare topics that keep the conversation away from MEA. You are definitely right here. It's sad but the only reason for total lack of information I can think of.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 1, 2016 18:53:22 GMT
Just out of curiosity - how did it happen? The teacher forbade all other girls to participate? Or other girls did not show any interest in programming? Because if it is the latter - I do not see why it has to be the huge social problem discussed instead of game related topics. As you ask, it was a university Programming degree and she was the only female person in her group. At a younger age too, I funded her to attend out of school programming hobbies, because she was interested, but again the only, or one of two female. Why? Not a simple answer. Marketing such learning more to guys, less expectation that females would be any good? There are plenty of bigger social problems, but sure, this is a legitimate issue facing games development, and it's as good a topic as any given that I suspect their topics are restricted. Anyway, we'd better get back on (the main) topic...
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Post by NRieh on Sept 1, 2016 19:02:35 GMT
I do not see why it has to be the huge social problem discussed instead of game related topics. (Female (ex)web-tech here.) Let's put it this way. 1. Yes, not many women in general are interested in programming and\or gametech 2. those who are experience some issues which are actually not gametech\programming-specific, they may vary between companies, industries and countries. 3. points 1&2 got nothing to do with gaming con, no matter how well BW build their panel, they might as well discuss global warming and BrExit.
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Post by Amirit on Sept 1, 2016 21:04:38 GMT
I do not see why it has to be the huge social problem discussed instead of game related topics. (Female (ex)web-tech here.) Let's put it this way. 1. Yes, not many women in general are interested in programming and\or gametech 2. those who are experience some issues which are actually not gametech\programming-specific, they may vary between companies, industries and countries. 3. points 1&2 got nothing to do with gaming con, no matter how well BW build their panel, they might as well discuss global warming and BrExit. My point exactly. They invent problems to publicly worry about them and by that cutting off any legitimate questions about game development.
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Post by Evamitchelle on Sept 2, 2016 2:45:41 GMT
I do not see why it has to be the huge social problem discussed instead of game related topics. (Female (ex)web-tech here.) Let's put it this way. 1. Yes, not many women in general are interested in programming and\or gametech 2. those who are experience some issues which are actually not gametech\programming-specific, they may vary between companies, industries and countries. 3. points 1&2 got nothing to do with gaming con, no matter how well BW build their panel, they might as well discuss global warming and BrExit. Why is a gaming con not the right place to talk about working in the game industry exactly? The Bioware panel is about women who are already interested in tech and want to get a job in the industry or grow their careers. (And that panel's not just Bioware, there are women from Microsoft, Bethesda and more as well).
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 2, 2016 13:52:32 GMT
Here is more information about the three panels that BioWare are attending: Making and Promoting Non-Traditional Characters in Games
Saturday, 2pm Games are finally starting to reflect their diverse players with more types of characters, scenarios, and approaches to gameplay. Whether it's writing a one-eyed pansexual bull and his trans lieutenant; featuring non-white main characters; showcasing the female option in marketing; creating an entire cast caught in a web of gender, sexuality, and ability; acquiring unusual indie titles; or keeping the conversation going; it's crucial. Hear from those who did it and how they'll do it again. PANELISTS: Patrick Weekes [Lead Writer, BioWare], Hilary Heskett Shapiro [Sr. Brand Manager, Bethesda Softworks], Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows [Creative Director, Gorgeous Robot], Arden Ripley [Writer / Developer, Date or Die], Steve Gee [Senior Manager, Developer Relations, Adult Swim Games], Tanya DePass [Freelance Critic and Diversity Consultant, #INeedDiverseGames] west.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/making-and-promoting-non-traditional-characters-in-gamesForeplay: Romance in GamesSaturday, 8pm So, what's it like to be in the business of making gamers fall in love with characters that aren't real? With a growing diversity of games, we have a broader spectrum of romances than ever. But what makes you fall in love with your favorite in-game paramour? Hitting the right balance of writing, artwork, voice acting and music is complicated. How do the pros do it? And what could the future hold? Come cuddle up as we turn down the lights and turn down the bed on modern, digital romance. PANELISTS: Mike Laidlaw [Creative Director, BioWare], Sean Baptiste [Community Manager, Adult Swim], Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows [Writer / Creative Director, Gorgeous Robot], Judy Tyrer [Founder, 3 Turn Productions LLC], Cissy Jones [Voiceover Actor, Abrams Artists Agency], Hilary Heskett Shapiro [Sr. Brand Manager, Bethesda Softworks] west.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/foreplay-romance-in-gamesTeam Up: Women in Games & TechSunday, 2pm Women are a driving force behind many creative disciplines in both the video game industry and tech. Join the discussion to learn about overcoming common obstacles, hear war stories, and get networking advice from professionals. We will cover topics from getting a job to growing your career and everything in between. Come prepared to ask questions, and get ready for an uplifting conversation on how to effect positive change in your career. PANELISTS: Hilary Heskett Shapiro [Sr. Brand Manager, Bethesda Softworks], Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows [Creative Director, Gorgeous Robot], Jessica Merizan [Sr. Community Manager, Microsoft], Melanie Fleming [Producer, BioWare], Trin Garritano [Events Manager, Cards Against Humanity] west.paxsite.com/schedule/panel/team-up-women-in-games-tech
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2016 15:08:03 GMT
If the gaming devs are looking to find women who would seriously consider becoming more involved in programming, writing, and art development, to name a few, then it makes a lot of sense to have a panel discussion about these careers - an outreach, I suppose - to draw the curtain open into this narrow and obscure field. I suppose I'd rather see a female game character written from a woman's perspective. That's not to say that guys can't write amazing dialog and characterization for game femmes. Kudos to whoever wrote Ashley's personal interest in poetry, such as Ulysses where "some work of noble note may yet be done...". It was unexpected by me to see this happen in a male-dominated gaming milieu. Elena Fisher's character, intelligence, and personality in Naughty Dog's Uncharted game series was also very well written.
I think of the impact that Sally Ride, Amelia Earhart, and many other exceptional career pioneering women have done to 'open the curtain' for careers that seemed impenetrable. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT SJW agendas, which I see as nothing more than militantism - a destructive process. Perhaps these topics for BW at PAX West this weekend are a way to talk about something other than ME:A, but I hope the presentations are their way to say "we're looking for the most talented people to get into gaming development, and there are opportunities that women might want to consider for the future of game development". Women's perspectives are not monolithic. An invitation for career opportunities for non-traditional people in the field is NOT the same as forcing social justice in our faces and down our throats. Well, I see a difference. If these panel discussions can open the curtain on the hidden careers in game development, and where NDAs must exist to keep their work and operations private for years at a time, I hope these panels will show a positive message that game development has room for many talented people from a variety of backgrounds. Perhaps this will lead to fewer tropes and more creativity. Let's see what happens this weekend. I wish I could be there.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 2, 2016 19:45:23 GMT
Ew. Jeez. A lot of crowing about gender, diversity and romance. Not a single word about overall storyline, let alone gameplay.Let's hope that this isn't representing their priorities when it comes to game development. But gotta make do with what you've got to distinguish yourself from the competition, right?
They've talked about this in interviews: I think it is actually most of what they have talked about. Here's a link to the thread that has the interview information gathered; bsn.boards.net/thread/91/all-information-e3
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Post by laudable11 on Sept 2, 2016 21:15:09 GMT
The diversity angle IS a selling point. To game journalist. They will eat it up. Pandering to progressive sjw game sites could get them an 8 out of 10 instead of 7 out of 10.
I believe diversity is common sense, but when you become preachy it becomes annoying.
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Post by Spectr61 on Sept 2, 2016 22:04:30 GMT
Diversity for diversity's sake is laughable, and often leads to poorer performance than would otherwise occur.
Just give me the best performers; gender, orientation, preference, ethnicity, etc, are secondary.
Open the doors to all, create an open, welcoming environment, and select the best.
Utopian and a pipe dream probably, but I can hope.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 3, 2016 6:04:54 GMT
Don't forget these are panels organised by Pax West that have attendees from multiple publishers. There are no 'BioWare only' panels. Pax West want panels that generate interest and have no doubt invited BioWare to panels they think they can contribute to. Can we get any of our community who are planning to attend these panels to say 'hi' by the way?
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Post by NRieh on Sept 3, 2016 8:47:04 GMT
Don't forget an 'Officially Unofficial Bioware Fan' T-shirt.
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Post by Garo on Sept 3, 2016 14:01:56 GMT
"a one-eyed pansexual bull and his trans lieutenant" - That's funny when you think about that
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Post by jaison1986 on Sept 3, 2016 14:17:29 GMT
"a one-eyed pansexual bull and his trans lieutenant" - That's funny when you think about that The snowflake detector is off the damn charts!
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 3, 2016 19:10:36 GMT
Snip it would appear to be more the 'Dragon Age' team that is at the conventions, given the critical stage MEA is at. <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Hm... "critical" vs "polishing" are at the opposite end of the spectrum. Well, that was the case when I was in IT.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 3, 2016 19:18:14 GMT
<<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>>
From Bio. "Games are finally starting to reflect their diverse players with more types of characters, scenarios, and approaches to gameplay. Whether it’s writing a one-eyed pansexual bull and his trans lieutenant; featuring non-white main characters; showcasing the female option in marketing; creating an entire cast caught in a web of gender, sexuality, and ability; acquiring unusual indie titles; or keeping the conversation going; it’s crucial. Hear from those who did it and how they’ll do it again."
I'm more interested in a solid engaging and fun game than looking forwards to meeting a pansexual or trans characacter in that game. Geeesh! The studio has their priorities mixed up.
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Post by bshep on Sept 3, 2016 19:59:50 GMT
Haven't Bioware already been doing that ever since Dragon Age 2? Anyway, it's best not to expect news from them right now.
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Post by githcheater on Sept 3, 2016 23:53:45 GMT
and then there is this twitter image ... I hope Bioware is busy making a game, rather than just preachily promoting a political agenda ... Mitu K-PAX @mituk .@mike_Laidlaw on the nuances and importance of being progressive re: social issues vs. being "preachy" #PAXDev
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Post by NRieh on Sept 4, 2016 9:09:06 GMT
Is this a pic from the panel?... Well, something tells me their subject was not too popular after all. Must be those multiple empty seats.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 4, 2016 10:56:15 GMT
and then there is this twitter image ... I hope Bioware is busy making a game, rather than just preachily promoting a political agenda ... Mitu K-PAX @mituk .@mike_Laidlaw on the nuances and importance of being progressive re: social issues vs. being "preachy" #PAXDev <<<<<<<<<<(0)>>>>>>>>>> Again, I say they have their priorities mixed up. If ML wants to show the studio is progressive then start preaching about moral values that matter. .. you know, kindness, honesty, work ethic, good parenting, taking responsibilities, duty, good role model for your children ... etc. Parading trans and pans in a game doesn't cut it.
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Post by Amirit on Sept 4, 2016 11:45:48 GMT
Well, if you cut off the most active part of the community (the one who posts of forums and always ready to follow it's idols) - do not expect full stadions.
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