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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 15, 2017 0:57:20 GMT
Watching the quality of his work just brings back the serious heartburn when I think of the pitiful scraps everyone else got, especially M/M Scott and Reyes virtually merging his nose into my cheek in what was supposed to a mouth to mouth kiss that ends up gnawing on the side of my nose instead. I thought it was odd why Cora's romance was so much better animated compared to virtually everybody else. Now we know exactly why that was the case. I remember thinking it was so strange how poorly animated the kiss with Avela was when the kissing with Cora was so well-executed. Now we know that Peleg was responsible and only had a role in a few scenes in the game.
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Post by fizzypop on Apr 15, 2017 1:14:35 GMT
I don't think it had anything to do with lacking the talent at all. It has to do with poor management. We've been hearing rumors about poor management for months. "Inside sources" said that most of the animation work was outsourced and not touched up by the actual team. The actual team offered to touch up animations and was told not to by management. I really think this comes down to poor management and not that they didn't have the talent to begin with, they clearly do. They just weren't allowing their senior animators to touch up scenes that came back from the outsourced company.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 15, 2017 1:32:57 GMT
I don't think it had anything to do with lacking the talent at all. It has to do with poor management. We've been hearing rumors about poor management for months. "Inside sources" said that most of the animation work was outsourced and not touched up by the actual team. The actual team offered to touch up animations and was told not to by management. I really think this comes down to poor management and not that they didn't have the talent to begin with, they clearly do. They just weren't allowing their senior animators to touch up scenes that came back from the outsourced company. I'd treat any rumors with a grain of salt. Not that they aren't true in any way, but even a rumor isn't necessarily the whole story. I don't believe most ever felt BioWare lacked the talent. The problem seemed to be a misuse of tools and not polishing the results. Whether that was due to outsourcing, mismanagement, or something else entirely, we'll likely never know. What I do know is that this incident is unlikely to happen again. We also now know that not all scenes with facial animations were allegedly outsourced. I will not be surprised if we see a markedly higher execution in terms of animations going forward with DLC and future Mass Effect games. Hopefully, Peleg's own quality work is evidence enough to the powers that be that putting in the extra time to do animations right does make a huge difference.
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Post by leo3abp on Apr 15, 2017 3:22:57 GMT
I've read somewhere that the romances even got their own designated writer in ME:A, can't find the source anymore Considering the writing of romances or "Hey PB, how do I flirt with you?", I can only assume that it was a kid of one of senior managers or producers....
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 15, 2017 3:31:01 GMT
Why wasn't he involved in the Morda fight?
And who was?
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Mihura
N4
“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MihuraL
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Post by Mihura on Apr 15, 2017 3:36:47 GMT
Tal Peleg was the former senior animator at Naughty Dog. Having worked on projects, such as The Last of Us, and Uncharted 4: A Thief's End, he joined the MEA team just last year and had quite an impact with what little he contributed. I'd definitely like to see his amazing work continue onward. Without a doubt, he produced some of the best animations in all of the game. It's no wonder the Cora sex scene was a cut above the rest, given his personal involvement. So they employed an expert for one scene?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 15, 2017 3:40:18 GMT
Why wasn't he involved in the Morda fight? And who was? I'm still a bit confused by that whole sequence. I couldn't even tell if they actually even touched each other, let alone that Morda pinned Crux to the ground. That was one of the strangest, most lackluster "fights" I've ever seen in any game. I have no idea how that was able to pass QA and someone not find it terrible.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 15, 2017 3:44:48 GMT
Why wasn't he involved in the Morda fight? And who was? I'm still a bit confused by that whole sequence. I couldn't even tell if they actually even touched each other, let alone that Morda pinned Crux to the ground. That was one of the strangest, most lackluster "fights" I've ever seen in any game. I have no idea how that was able to pass QA and someone not find it terrible. You could say the same of the entire Turian ark mission.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 15, 2017 3:48:15 GMT
Tal Peleg was the former senior animator at Naughty Dog. Having worked on projects, such as The Last of Us, and Uncharted 4: A Thief's End, he joined the MEA team just last year and had quite an impact with what little he contributed. I'd definitely like to see his amazing work continue onward. Without a doubt, he produced some of the best animations in all of the game. It's no wonder the Cora sex scene was a cut above the rest, given his personal involvement. So they employed an expert for one scene? What's odd is that he joined BioWare Montreal late last year, which implies the Cora sex scene was done really late in development. I have no idea if that meant all the other sex scenes were already complete. But, Peleg worked on very little else of the game based on his own words. It's really hard to get a sense of how these tasks were divided up among the team and when what was finished.
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Post by vallixas on Apr 15, 2017 3:52:25 GMT
Without a doubt Tal Peleg's work is amazing on animation, but for those saying he should be animating a lot more that's not how animation in a game like Mass Effect works. With Naughty Dog and games like Uncharted, they can put that level of animation in because it's a significantly short game that is linear. They don't have to account for all the player choice in dialogue, all the side quest dialogue, etc. They just have to do a few hours of cutscenes and then some combat animations. It's still a lot of work, but it's not nearly as much as it would be if BioWare were to use that approach. What developers like BioWare, Bethesda, and CDPR have to do is build a library of re-usable animations and other things like head tracking that are constantly being used by the game during cutscenes. They then go in and animate a few cutscenes in the Naughty Dog way for ones that they deem important. Why Cora's sex scene was deemed so important over other things(maybe it wasn't and this is just Tal's expertise shining though), I'm not sure but that's one of the things that clearly got the "animated by hand" treatment. It doesn't look as good but when you do it right it still works. CDPR is probably the best at it, and The Witcher 3 still arguably doesn't have amazing animations except in the context of looking at how they've overcome certain usual limitations of this system. There's a reason why characters looking stiff when they're talking to you have been a criticism of both past BioWare and Bethesda games. At a guess, I would say that the problem lies somewhere in that system. Either animations not playing the right animation or at all, some of the other parts of it not working, or a combination of multiple things. As to why it ended up happening, nothing we say is anything but speculation honestly. Yeah.....maybe for a game like Witcher 3, but idunno about Andromeda. There's not much depth in it's sidequest to really say it would take THAT much work. They're literally just fetch quest with not a ton of dialogue or choice at all. Most of the game you're just picking between two options, and those options aren't diverse. They're all yes in different ways no matter what. It was actually quite linear for an rpg and a more open game. I felt like Uncharted/TLOU campaign was longer. Take out the traversing planets and Andromeda's campaign is very very short.
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Post by dark8sage on Apr 15, 2017 4:17:51 GMT
Watching the quality of his work just brings back the serious heartburn when I think of the pitiful scraps everyone else got, especially M/M Scott and Reyes virtually merging his nose into my cheek in what was supposed to a mouth to mouth kiss that ends up gnawing on the side of my nose instead. I thought it was odd why Cora's romance was so much better animated compared to virtually everybody else. Now we know exactly why that was the case. I remember thinking it was so strange how poorly animated the kiss with Avela was when the kissing with Cora was so well-executed. Now we know that Peleg was responsible and only had a role in a few scenes in the game. To me it's just a matter that they rushed the game out barely finished. It's a release riddled with bugs and the sheer emptiness of planets like Elaaden and Havarl and the fact that neitehr of those planets gets post game dialogue and Morda is the same "RRRHGHAAR!" growl cutscene after the remnant core story regardless of what you're doing with Meridian or whether you appointed her as ambassador tells me everything. Hell, after Meridian, only Tann had a line in Pathfinder HQ for the post game. Kesh and Addison had nothing additional to say. Avitus Rex was conspicuously the single pathfinder to not have a post game comment unlike Vederia or Raeka. I finished the game and the Ancient AI that was sitting next to SAM is gone and so is my sister and the doctor taking care of her since Cryo Bay disappeared into the nether post-game. Reyes Vidal had no post game dialogue in Kadara either. You do the movie night quest and those who didn't romance a squadmate or Gil/Suvi are fucked over and their romance is treated like some irrelevant fling.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 15, 2017 6:03:30 GMT
I thought it was odd why Cora's romance was so much better animated compared to virtually everybody else. Now we know exactly why that was the case. I remember thinking it was so strange how poorly animated the kiss with Avela was when the kissing with Cora was so well-executed. Now we know that Peleg was responsible and only had a role in a few scenes in the game. To me it's just a matter that they rushed the game out barely finished. It's a release riddled with bugs and the sheer emptiness of planets like Elaaden and Havarl and the fact that neitehr of those planets gets post game dialogue and Morda is the same "RRRHGHAAR!" growl cutscene after the remnant core story regardless of what you're doing with Meridian or whether you appointed her as ambassador tells me everything. Hell, after Meridian, only Tann had a line in Pathfinder HQ for the post game. Kesh and Addison had nothing additional to say. Avitus Rex was conspicuously the single pathfinder to not have a post game comment unlike Vederia or Raeka. I finished the game and the Ancient AI that was sitting next to SAM is gone and so is my sister and the doctor taking care of her since Cryo Bay disappeared into the nether post-game. Reyes Vidal had no post game dialogue in Kadara either. You do the movie night quest and those who didn't romance a squadmate or Gil/Suvi are fucked over and their romance is treated like some irrelevant fling. There's no question the game lacked polish and execution. The main reason I created this thread was to bring attention to the fact that one particular person was responsible for the quality animation work for the best animated scenes in the game. Whether this was a fluke or not is anybody's guess. I would just like to see animations of this quality all across the board going forward if possible.
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Post by Lavochkin on Apr 15, 2017 6:25:08 GMT
I'm still a bit confused by that whole sequence. I couldn't even tell if they actually even touched each other, let alone that Morda pinned Crux to the ground. That was one of the strangest, most lackluster "fights" I've ever seen in any game. I have no idea how that was able to pass QA and someone not find it terrible. You could say the same of the entire Turian ark mission. When I finished that mission I was like "wait ... what? That's it?". I did it not too long ago again on my second run and was even more dumbfounded by it.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 15, 2017 6:30:55 GMT
You could say the same of the entire Turian ark mission. When I finished that mission I was like "wait ... what? That's it?". I did it not too long ago again on my second run and was even more dumbfounded by it. Not to be repetitive or anything but you could say the same of the Turian Ark mission. *Sips Ryncol*
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 15, 2017 7:01:03 GMT
You could say the same of the entire Turian ark mission. When I finished that mission I was like "wait ... what? That's it?". I did it not too long ago again on my second run and was even more dumbfounded by it. Yeah I was surprised by how brief it was. I don't mind a mission without much (or any) combat, but there could have been a fair amount more exposition or some deeper character moments about any surviving inhabitants of that ark. They definitely saved the best for last with the salarian ark though.
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Post by dark8sage on Apr 15, 2017 8:02:59 GMT
To me it's just a matter that they rushed the game out barely finished. It's a release riddled with bugs and the sheer emptiness of planets like Elaaden and Havarl and the fact that neitehr of those planets gets post game dialogue and Morda is the same "RRRHGHAAR!" growl cutscene after the remnant core story regardless of what you're doing with Meridian or whether you appointed her as ambassador tells me everything. Hell, after Meridian, only Tann had a line in Pathfinder HQ for the post game. Kesh and Addison had nothing additional to say. Avitus Rex was conspicuously the single pathfinder to not have a post game comment unlike Vederia or Raeka. I finished the game and the Ancient AI that was sitting next to SAM is gone and so is my sister and the doctor taking care of her since Cryo Bay disappeared into the nether post-game. Reyes Vidal had no post game dialogue in Kadara either. You do the movie night quest and those who didn't romance a squadmate or Gil/Suvi are fucked over and their romance is treated like some irrelevant fling. There's no question the game lacked polish and execution. The main reason I created this thread was to bring attention to the fact that one particular person was responsible for the quality animation work for the best animated scenes in the game. Whether this was a fluke or not is anybody's guess. I would just like to see animations of this quality all across the board going forward if possible. He's a good guy, fond of his tweet feed. Hopefully he'll do good things for the sequel after management was made aware of public disapproval over lack of polish on the game as a whole. I'm glad he's pointed out the malicious, relentless campaign going against Bioware for a while just because they have the temerity to not be a straight white guy's clubhouse like The Witcher 3 was (and to be fair, The Witcher 3 was a great game, but the obvious target demographic was straight white guys with a pretty grimdark aged white guy protagonist who has supermodel women throw themselves at him right and left despite his freakish features and massively scarred body, and the rest of the men in the game besides Olgierd are pretty hideous as well so as to make the protagonist the male star while all other men are eclipsed under him). Bioware has prominent women and not all of them are dolls, and it has black main characters alongside gay characters and that's clearly some vile agenda that has corrupted the integrity of the games the studio makes. Bioware deserves harsh criticism for the execution and delivery of games in terms of gameplay and writing, but so many of the criticisms are so obviously from a place of resentment over "these games are about more people than just those I can relate with".
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 15, 2017 16:03:48 GMT
He's a good guy, fond of his tweet feed. Hopefully he'll do good things for the sequel after management was made aware of public disapproval over lack of polish on the game as a whole. I'm glad he's pointed out the malicious, relentless campaign going against Bioware for a while just because they have the temerity to not be a straight white guy's clubhouse like The Witcher 3 was (and to be fair, The Witcher 3 was a great game, but the obvious target demographic was straight white guys with a pretty grimdark aged white guy protagonist who has supermodel women throw themselves at him right and left despite his freakish features and massively scarred body, and the rest of the men in the game besides Olgierd are pretty hideous as well so as to make the protagonist the male star while all other men are eclipsed under him). Bioware has prominent women and not all of them are dolls, and it has black main characters alongside gay characters and that's clearly some vile agenda that has corrupted the integrity of the games the studio makes. Bioware deserves harsh criticism for the execution and delivery of games in terms of gameplay and writing, but so many of the criticisms are so obviously from a place of resentment over "these games are about more people than just those I can relate with". I'm under the impression that management at BioWare Montreal will likely receive a facelift. Hopefully, those changes will have a positive impact on the studio going forward with future projects. That's a rather unfair characterization for The Witcher 3. I could understand why someone who has never experienced the franchise might perceive it that way, but it couldn't be farther from the truth. Geralt isn't even human anymore, and he gets his fair share of grief for that reality. He's a mutant, and most uneducated see him as a freak and a monster. Geralt is also told on various occasions how ugly he looks, because he's not supposed to be attractive as he wasn't in the books. There are actually quite a few similarities between witchers and the X-Men and how they are treated due to their unique abilities. As far as the sorceresses, they look like "supermodel women" because they have deliberately enhanced their appearance to use as an advantage against men in power (being advisors for kings on their court). Most of those women are over 100 years old. The Witcher franchise is an incredibly complex and diverse world that has a lot more depth than those who have never experienced it give it credit. The demographic really isn't white straight males only. It can be relatable to a lot of groups who face adversity, and it's just a great story regardless. I wouldn't really say any female main character in a BioWare is ugly, even if Sara is considered unattractive by some. Having black main characters isn't exactly progressive either, as many AAA games have had black characters in significant roles for the last 15 years. Truth be told, BioWare has very few black main characters when you look at their entire list of games. DAO and DAII had zero, although that was for technical reasons due to the Eclipse engine not being capable of creating a large variety of skin tones. There will always be those who are ignorant and have a narrow-minded perception of the world. There will always be those who resent the fact that BioWare is trying to appeal to more than just their target audience. None of that matters to me, as ultimately I buy BioWare games for the story and the characters. As long as those are always the main priority, I'll always be a BioWare fan. Everything else is merely secondary after that from my perspective.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 407 Likes: 411
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Post by bizantura on Apr 15, 2017 16:33:34 GMT
He's a good guy, fond of his tweet feed. Hopefully he'll do good things for the sequel after management was made aware of public disapproval over lack of polish on the game as a whole. I'm glad he's pointed out the malicious, relentless campaign going against Bioware for a while just because they have the temerity to not be a straight white guy's clubhouse like The Witcher 3 was (and to be fair, The Witcher 3 was a great game, but the obvious target demographic was straight white guys with a pretty grimdark aged white guy protagonist who has supermodel women throw themselves at him right and left despite his freakish features and massively scarred body, and the rest of the men in the game besides Olgierd are pretty hideous as well so as to make the protagonist the male star while all other men are eclipsed under him). Bioware has prominent women and not all of them are dolls, and it has black main characters alongside gay characters and that's clearly some vile agenda that has corrupted the integrity of the games the studio makes. Bioware deserves harsh criticism for the execution and delivery of games in terms of gameplay and writing, but so many of the criticisms are so obviously from a place of resentment over "these games are about more people than just those I can relate with". I'm under the impression that management at BioWare Montreal will likely receive a facelift. Hopefully, those changes will have a positive impact on the studio going forward with future projects. That's a rather unfair characterization for The Witcher 3. I could understand why someone who has never experienced the franchise might perceive it that way, but it couldn't be farther from the truth. Geralt isn't even human anymore, and he gets his fair share of grief for that reality. He's a mutant, and most uneducated see him as a freak and a monster. Geralt is also told on various occasions how ugly he looks, because he's not supposed to be attractive as he wasn't in the books. There are actually quite a few similarities between witchers and the X-Men and how they are treated due to their unique abilities. As far as the sorceresses, they look like "supermodel women" because they have deliberately enhanced their appearance to use as an advantage against men in power (being advisors for kings on their court). Most of those women are over 100 years old. The Witcher franchise is an incredibly complex and diverse world that has a lot more depth than those who have never experienced it give it credit. The demographic really isn't white straight males only. It can be relatable to a lot of groups who face adversity, and it's just a great story regardless. I wouldn't really say any female main character in a BioWare is ugly, even if Sara is considered unattractive by some. Having black main characters isn't exactly progressive either, as many AAA games have had black characters in significant roles for the last 15 years. Truth be told, BioWare has very few black main characters when you look at their entire list of games. DAO and DAII had zero, although that was for technical reasons due to the Eclipse engine not being capable of creating a large variety of skin tones. There will always be those who are ignorant and have a narrow-minded perception of the world. There will always be those who resent the fact that BioWare is trying to appeal to more than just their target audience. None of that matters to me, as ultimately I buy BioWare games for the story and the characters. As long as those are always the main priority, I'll always be a BioWare fan. Everything else is merely secondary after that from my perspective. It is always amusing to see people write critiques of games they apparently never played. I agree with your assessment but for the last part "None of that matters to me, as ultimately I buy BioWare games for the story and the characters. As long as those are always the main priority, I'll always be a BioWare fan. Everything else is merely secondary after that from my perspective.". That was the reason I very much liked Bioware games but MEA has all but interesting characters, so I hope Bioware can bring that back in future games. Witcher, sadly is done and we will have to see about how future products of CDPR turns out.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 15, 2017 16:38:34 GMT
I've read somewhere that the romances even got their own designated writer in ME:A, can't find the source anymore So you mean the romances are not written by the same as the characters' respective writers? That kinda shows in some cases :/ PeeBee acting so sensual and sentimental is almost overdone.
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Post by dark8sage on Apr 15, 2017 16:40:12 GMT
He's a good guy, fond of his tweet feed. Hopefully he'll do good things for the sequel after management was made aware of public disapproval over lack of polish on the game as a whole. I'm glad he's pointed out the malicious, relentless campaign going against Bioware for a while just because they have the temerity to not be a straight white guy's clubhouse like The Witcher 3 was (and to be fair, The Witcher 3 was a great game, but the obvious target demographic was straight white guys with a pretty grimdark aged white guy protagonist who has supermodel women throw themselves at him right and left despite his freakish features and massively scarred body, and the rest of the men in the game besides Olgierd are pretty hideous as well so as to make the protagonist the male star while all other men are eclipsed under him). Bioware has prominent women and not all of them are dolls, and it has black main characters alongside gay characters and that's clearly some vile agenda that has corrupted the integrity of the games the studio makes. Bioware deserves harsh criticism for the execution and delivery of games in terms of gameplay and writing, but so many of the criticisms are so obviously from a place of resentment over "these games are about more people than just those I can relate with". I'm under the impression that management at BioWare Montreal will likely receive a facelift. Hopefully, those changes will have a positive impact on the studio going forward with future projects. That's a rather unfair characterization for The Witcher 3. I could understand why someone who has never experienced the franchise might perceive it that way, but it couldn't be farther from the truth. Geralt isn't even human anymore, and he gets his fair share of grief for that reality. He's a mutant, and most uneducated see him as a freak and a monster. Geralt is also told on various occasions how ugly he looks, because he's not supposed to be attractive as he wasn't in the books. There are actually quite a few similarities between witchers and the X-Men and how they are treated due to their unique abilities. As far as the sorceresses, they look like "supermodel women" because they have deliberately enhanced their appearance to use as an advantage against men in power (being advisors for kings on their court). Most of those women are over 100 years old. The Witcher franchise is an incredibly complex and diverse world that has a lot more depth than those who have never experienced it give it credit. The demographic really isn't white straight males only. It can be relatable to a lot of groups who face adversity, and it's just a great story regardless. I wouldn't really say any female main character in a BioWare is ugly, even if Sara is considered unattractive by some. Having black main characters isn't exactly progressive either, as many AAA games have had black characters in significant roles for the last 15 years. Truth be told, BioWare has very few black main characters when you look at their entire list of games. DAO and DAII had zero, although that was for technical reasons due to the Eclipse engine not being capable of creating a large variety of skin tones. There will always be those who are ignorant and have a narrow-minded perception of the world. There will always be those who resent the fact that BioWare is trying to appeal to more than just their target audience. None of that matters to me, as ultimately I buy BioWare games for the story and the characters. As long as those are always the main priority, I'll always be a BioWare fan. Everything else is merely secondary after that from my perspective. Geralt might say that he's treated like a freak, but in practice where you actually play the game you are pretty much immune from all these politics. You hear comments from NPC's in game being disrespectful but throughout the entire game I've changed the fate of nations -- I wouldn't call that lack of empowerment. I get audiences with kings and emperors, and have a partnership with the most powerful magic users in the world, on top of having a fruitful friendship with a high vampire. Geralt has a way better life than most NPC's in the game despite being "oppressed" for being a witcher. And honestly, it doesn't matter what the reasons are for the sorceresses to look the way they do. Shani wasn't a sorceress and she still goes off dangling her tits at Geralt. Virtually, the game feeds you youthful looking women and pretends that all these women would be mad with desire for someone who looks like Geralt, that they don't care he's ugly (because for straight men, the appearance of the man does not matter in the equation). The Witcher 3 is incredibly fanservice-ish, and somehow it's Bioware who gets blasted for pandering. I don't say this to be mean to Witcher. Witcher 3 is miles better than Dragon Age as an RPG. But I can't ignore just how convenient the romances are in Witcher. Geralt is a womanizer despite his appearance and that's as big a fantasy as you can sell to straight white boys as anyone else. The game even tries to guilt trip you if you turn Triss or Shani down while being loyal to Yennefer. It actively encourages you to cave in and sleep with women (you can fuck Kira and Shani and unlike Triss it won't even affect your romance with Yennefer). So if the Witcher can get away with this without a vicious campaign, why does Bioware get bombed all the time because it has some obscure trans NPC in the game or one of the squad is gay. Hell, with Liam you get these people saying "that's what happens when you fill quotas instead of write interesting characters" as an excuse for why Liam is disliked. And it sucks because there are aspects in which SJW shit is unbearable (Manveer was a good example of a shit magnet), but then the other side gets so petty and dismissive with minority representation that it makes SJW's look good.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 15, 2017 16:45:50 GMT
There's no question the game lacked polish and execution. The main reason I created this thread was to bring attention to the fact that one particular person was responsible for the quality animation work for the best animated scenes in the game. Whether this was a fluke or not is anybody's guess. I would just like to see animations of this quality all across the board going forward if possible. He's a good guy, fond of his tweet feed. Hopefully he'll do good things for the sequel after management was made aware of public disapproval over lack of polish on the game as a whole. I'm glad he's pointed out the malicious, relentless campaign going against Bioware for a while just because they have the temerity to not be a straight white guy's clubhouse like The Witcher 3 was (and to be fair, The Witcher 3 was a great game, but the obvious target demographic was straight white guys with a pretty grimdark aged white guy protagonist who has supermodel women throw themselves at him right and left despite his freakish features and massively scarred body, and the rest of the men in the game besides Olgierd are pretty hideous as well so as to make the protagonist the male star while all other men are eclipsed under him). Bioware has prominent women and not all of them are dolls, and it has black main characters alongside gay characters and that's clearly some vile agenda that has corrupted the integrity of the games the studio makes. Bioware deserves harsh criticism for the execution and delivery of games in terms of gameplay and writing, but so many of the criticisms are so obviously from a place of resentment over "these games are about more people than just those I can relate with". There is a difference between targeting straight white guys and having a game featuring straight white guys or there can be in many cases. Not everything is that cut and dry. Witcher is based on books and Witcher 3 is the third entry in an established game canon. They can't just throw in 50 black guys to appeal to a wider audience at the expense of their fiction. BioWare can because their IPs don't have any identity that excludes diversity unlike Witcher's Slavic, Polish mythology. I just hate when people talk about Witcher as if its the devil for not featuring non-white characters. That can be diversity too as long as other game series represent other audiences. Also, if I played an action game where all characters are masculine women I wouldn't necessarily consider that to be made not for me. It's like saying "50 Cent Bulletproof is a game for black people". Fuck you, it isn't and I like the game better than all of you
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 15, 2017 16:56:45 GMT
So they employed an expert for one scene? What's odd is that he joined BioWare Montreal late last year, which implies the Cora sex scene was done really late in development. I have no idea if that meant all the other sex scenes were already complete. But, Peleg worked on very little else of the game based on his own words. It's really hard to get a sense of how these tasks were divided up among the team and when what was finished. So my question is this: Is he working on the game now post patch?
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
370
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4,072
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Teaching Mode Activated
3,186
August 2016
linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 15, 2017 17:02:35 GMT
He's a good guy, fond of his tweet feed. Hopefully he'll do good things for the sequel after management was made aware of public disapproval over lack of polish on the game as a whole. I'm glad he's pointed out the malicious, relentless campaign going against Bioware for a while just because they have the temerity to not be a straight white guy's clubhouse like The Witcher 3 was (and to be fair, The Witcher 3 was a great game, but the obvious target demographic was straight white guys with a pretty grimdark aged white guy protagonist who has supermodel women throw themselves at him right and left despite his freakish features and massively scarred body, and the rest of the men in the game besides Olgierd are pretty hideous as well so as to make the protagonist the male star while all other men are eclipsed under him). Bioware has prominent women and not all of them are dolls, and it has black main characters alongside gay characters and that's clearly some vile agenda that has corrupted the integrity of the games the studio makes. Bioware deserves harsh criticism for the execution and delivery of games in terms of gameplay and writing, but so many of the criticisms are so obviously from a place of resentment over "these games are about more people than just those I can relate with". There is a difference between targeting straight white guys and having a game featuring straight white guys or there can be in many cases. Not everything is that cut and dry. Witcher is based on books and Witcher 3 is the third entry in an established game canon. They can't just throw in 50 black guys to appeal to a wider audience at the expense of their fiction. BioWare can because their IPs don't have any identity that excludes diversity unlike Witcher's Slavic, Polish mythology. I just hate when people talk about Witcher as if its the devil for not featuring non-white characters. That can be diversity too as long as other game series represent other audiences. Also, if I played an action game where all characters are masculine women I wouldn't necessarily consider that to be made not for me. It's like saying "50 Cent Bulletproof is a game for black people". Fuck you, it isn't and I like the game better than all of you Yeah thats not the problem with the Witcher series. The problem is the really boring combat and in all honesty...the tone being excessively grimdark for no reason other than to shock people. Especially in the first game. I am also not a fan of Geralt as a character, personally. He was better written in Witcher 2 at least.
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Pathfinder
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 15, 2017 17:05:42 GMT
It is always amusing to see people write critiques of games they apparently never played. I agree with your assessment but for the last part "None of that matters to me, as ultimately I buy BioWare games for the story and the characters. As long as those are always the main priority, I'll always be a BioWare fan. Everything else is merely secondary after that from my perspective.". That was the reason I very much liked Bioware games but MEA has all but interesting characters, so I hope Bioware can bring that back in future games. Witcher, sadly is done and we will have to see about how future products of CDPR turns out. Agreed. There is always room for improvement, and I hope BioWare still has that fire to be one of the leading pioneers in the RPG genre. MEA is not without its faults, but I do believe it is a solid foundation for BioWare to truly build something remarkable. I'm looking forward to Cyberpunk 2077. There really isn't a strong futuristic dystopian franchise in gaming. I suppose the closest games fitting that description would be Fallout and Deus Ex, with the latter having been recently shelved indefinitely. I'm curious to see what CDPR creates, and I think they are in a niche genre where they can thrive and dominate, but the jury is still out until we finally see the game. Geralt might say that he's treated like a freak, but in practice where you actually play the game you are pretty much immune from all these politics. You hear comments from NPC's in game being disrespectful but throughout the entire game I've changed the fate of nations -- I wouldn't call that lack of empowerment. I get audiences with kings and emperors, and have a partnership with the most powerful magic users in the world, on top of having a fruitful friendship with a high vampire. Geralt has a way better life than most NPC's in the game despite being "oppressed" for being a witcher. And honestly, it doesn't matter what the reasons are for the sorceresses to look the way they do. Shani wasn't a sorceress and she still goes off dangling her tits at Geralt. Virtually, the game feeds you youthful looking women and pretends that all these women would be mad with desire for someone who looks like Geralt, that they don't care he's ugly (because for straight men, the appearance of the man does not matter in the equation). The Witcher 3 is incredibly fanservice-ish, and somehow it's Bioware who gets blasted for pandering. I don't say this to be mean to Witcher. Witcher 3 is miles better than Dragon Age as an RPG. But I can't ignore just how convenient the romances are in Witcher. Geralt is a womanizer despite his appearance and that's as big a fantasy as you can sell to straight white boys as anyone else. The game even tries to guilt trip you if you turn Triss or Shani down while being loyal to Yennefer. It actively encourages you to cave in and sleep with women (you can fuck Kira and Shani and unlike Triss it won't even affect your romance with Yennefer). So if the Witcher can get away with this without a vicious campaign, why does Bioware get bombed all the time because it has some obscure trans NPC in the game or one of the squad is gay. Hell, with Liam you get these people saying "that's what happens when you fill quotas instead of write interesting characters" as an excuse for why Liam is disliked. And it sucks because there are aspects in which SJW shit is unbearable (Manveer was a good example of a shit magnet), but then the other side gets so petty and dismissive with minority representation that it makes SJW's look good. Depends on the situation, where you are, and what company you happen to be in. Geralt is the famed White Wolf, so he is able to get a pass quite often due to his reputation. That being said, quite a few don't even care who he is and you see rather early on in the game how Geralt is turned away several times due to being a witcher. Most characters in the game don't respect him and only see him as being useful for killing monsters. The entire plot of TW3 really revolves around the novels, Geralt's connection to Ciri (daughter to the Emperor), and the Wild Hunt. Most of the time, Geralt's life is never this glamorous, but extreme circumstances lead to extraordinary events. As far as Shani, she has a long history and relationship with Geralt that stretches back to TW1, which is where we first meet her. You are more than welcome to keep your perception of TW3 as it is, but I respectfully disagree. BioWare did not receive backlash because there was a trans character in the game (Krem from DAI was well-received). BioWare received backlash because the dialogue for Hainly Abrams was idiotic and unrealistic with regard to what a trans person would actually say to a stranger. That was the issue and BioWare completely removed that line of dialogue out of the game based on my most recent playthrough. BioWare has had gay romance options stretching back since DAO, so I'm not aware of any recent controversy in that regard, other than BioWare did a really poor job of implementing gay romances this time around. Other than trolls trying to start flame wars, I haven't seen anyone criticize Liam because of the color of his skin. He's largely been criticized due to his reckless, impulsive behavior. The fact that he is black is inconsequential as Anderson and Jolee Bindo are two of the most beloved characters in any BioWare game. As long as BioWare worries more about making a good story, with believable characters, I think most of these other issues disappear. Make a great character first, and then you can decide if they are a particular minority. People enjoy great writing. While some absolutely despise Vivienne, no one can say she isn't a beautifully-written character. She, by far, is one of the highlights of DAI.
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Pathfinder
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February 2017
revanreborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Pax_Augusta
Heero the pilot
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Post by Revan Reborn on Apr 15, 2017 17:09:08 GMT
What's odd is that he joined BioWare Montreal late last year, which implies the Cora sex scene was done really late in development. I have no idea if that meant all the other sex scenes were already complete. But, Peleg worked on very little else of the game based on his own words. It's really hard to get a sense of how these tasks were divided up among the team and when what was finished. So my question is this: Is he working on the game now post patch? I'd assume so. Peleg had been with Naughty Dog for years and only recently joined BioWare Montreal last year. I doubt he'd leave so suddenly after just recently landing a new job. He'll likely be involved with BioWare Montreal for the foreseeable future. I'd expect him to at least stick around for DLC and the inevitable MEA2. I don't really know what his motivations were for joining BioWare Montreal, so we'll just have to wait and see what he does.
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