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Post by AnticsOfAnthony on Apr 15, 2017 17:56:58 GMT
The Jardaan! The game teases us with knowing of their existence, informs us that they created the Remnant AND Angara , along with the vaults, and we discover that the Scourge is a weapon that was created and used against them, several hundred years ago, at Khi Tasira We're left with sooooo many questions, in regards to who and/or what they are, what and/or who caused them to flee the Heleus cluster, and what they might even look like. Hopefully we see them return in the next Mass Effect: Andromeda game, but until then, I've combed through tons of codex, cutscenes, and other little hints throughout the game that might give us a clearer idea of what to expect from the Jardaan! Would love to know all of your thoughts on the matter! Anything I miss? Have counter-points to anything mentioned? Let's hear it!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 17:59:48 GMT
We think they might have made the Angara in their image. If you find a statue in a cave in Voeld and show it to Avela, she says it looks like an Angara, but different and maybe that's what they once looked like.
And Ryder will comment on Eos that the Vaults might have been made to create life for all the worlds, but something horrible went wrong when the Scourge was released.
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Post by AnticsOfAnthony on Apr 15, 2017 18:03:33 GMT
We think they might have made the Angara in their image. If you find a statue in a cave in Voeld and show it to Avela, she says it looks like an Angara, but different and maybe that's what they once looked like. And Ryder will comment on Eos that the Vaults might have been made to create life for all the worlds, but something horrible went wrong when the Scourge was released. I forgot about that scene, and should have included it in the video! D: But yeah, had the same idea before getting to that point, and was glad that it supported the theory.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 18:06:35 GMT
We think they might have made the Angara in their image. If you find a statue in a cave in Voeld and show it to Avela, she says it looks like an Angara, but different and maybe that's what they once looked like. And Ryder will comment on Eos that the Vaults might have been made to create life for all the worlds, but something horrible went wrong when the Scourge was released. I forgot about that scene, and should have included it in the video! D: But yeah, had the same idea before getting to that point, and was glad that it supported the theory. Oh yeah I think Avela's mission is one that can be too easily overlooked and people might miss out on what is hinted. I wouldn't say I see the Jardaan as good or bad, but they seem to value life as a whole, but not singular life, so to me they are kind of like Scientists who aren't afraid to breach their ethics in the name of creating something big. Great vid though! I LOVE this stuff a lot!
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Post by vyndral on Apr 15, 2017 18:08:02 GMT
I think they are going for a reverse Geth on us. Following the idea, the created will always rebel against the creators. My guess is the Angara rebelled against them and released the scourge. But I really don't have any proof for this. I also don't remember seeing anything that would directly make it impossible. And boy does BW love their creator, Created conflicts.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 18:12:09 GMT
I think they are going for a reverse Geth on us. Following the idea, the created will always rebel against the creators. My guess is the Angara rebelled against them and released the scourge. But I really do t have any proof for this. I also don't remember seeing anything that wpild directly make it impossible. And boy does BW love their who creator, Created conflicts. We did find that ancient Angaran ship the Scourge targeted though.
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Post by vyndral on Apr 15, 2017 18:24:46 GMT
I think they are going for a reverse Geth on us. Following the idea, the created will always rebel against the creators. My guess is the Angara rebelled against them and released the scourge. But I really do t have any proof for this. I also don't remember seeing anything that wpild directly make it impossible. And boy does BW love their who creator, Created conflicts. We did find that ancient Angaran ship the Scourge targeted though. Wasn't it a Remnant ship with an Angara piloting it? I'm thinking of the one on You get the helmet out of for collection on Aya. Anyway that can be explained. Perhaps not all the Angara agreed. Or perhaps they were simple using the ships to steer the scourge. Or if it is ancient enough it could even be from Before the split.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 18:26:40 GMT
We did find that ancient Angaran ship the Scourge targeted though. Wasn't it a Remnant ship with an Angara piloting it? I'm thinking of the one on You get the helmet out of for collection on Aya. Anyway that can be explained. Perhaps not all the Angara agreed. Or perhaps they were simple using the ships to steer the scourge. I thought so too, but then I scanned it and it said it was an Angaran starship.
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Post by vyndral on Apr 15, 2017 18:28:21 GMT
Wasn't it a Remnant ship with an Angara piloting it? I'm thinking of the one on You get the helmet out of for collection on Aya. Anyway that can be explained. Perhaps not all the Angara agreed. Or perhaps they were simple using the ships to steer the scourge. I thought so too, but then I scanned it and it said it was an Angaran starship. Huh. Ill have to look at it again on my next time through.
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Post by AnticsOfAnthony on Apr 15, 2017 21:00:58 GMT
I thought so too, but then I scanned it and it said it was an Angaran starship. Huh. Ill have to look at it again on my next time through. Helping out with the Angaran museum reveals a lot of interesting things about their past, and provides nice little hints about the Jardaan. Makes the fetch style quests for it worth it.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Apr 15, 2017 21:58:11 GMT
Thread needs more Robert Stack.
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Post by AnticsOfAnthony on Apr 15, 2017 22:09:28 GMT
Thread needs more Robert Stack. "Who were the Jardaan really? What caused such an advanced alien species to disappear without a trace?"
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Post by timebean on Apr 16, 2017 0:39:34 GMT
I have 2 theories. 1 - the Jaardan were AI, who wanted to create "real" life. Everything about their architecture and code-stuff screams AI to me. and/or 2 - the angara were created for some sort of memory/consciousness transfer. Ie, the Jaardan might have created the angara to move their consciousnesses to them for some sort of eternal life thing. The fact that the anagra have the ability to see the memories of their ancestors might be a hint for this. That's my 2 cents! Edited to add - I don't think it is shear force of will that allows Ryder to summon the remnant. I think his neural pathways have been altered by SAM, allowing to at least partially understand the code on his own. But again, this is just all my take on it (ie, unsupported gibberish).
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 16, 2017 1:57:24 GMT
I think they are going for a reverse Geth on us. Following the idea, the created will always rebel against the creators. My guess is the Angara rebelled against them and released the scourge. But I really do t have any proof for this. I also don't remember seeing anything that wpild directly make it impossible. And boy does BW love their who creator, Created conflicts. We did find that ancient Angaran ship the Scourge targeted though. Maybe. I always wonder how old the Angara really are. If they really were made in the image of their creators it could be that the Angara aren't that old and have attached the history of the Jardaan to their own. It's something that crossed my mind at any rate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 2:00:16 GMT
We did find that ancient Angaran ship the Scourge targeted though. Maybe. I always wonder how old the Angara really are. If they really were made in the image of their creators it could be that the Angara aren't that old and have attached the history of the Jardaan to their own. It's something that crossed my mind at any rate. Yeah I am trying to piece that together. The Remnant stuff is always read as about 400 years old, meaning 200 years into the AI's journey, none of that stuff was there.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 16, 2017 2:04:02 GMT
Edited to add - I don't think it is shear force of will that allows Ryder to summon the remnant. I think his neural pathways have been altered by SAM, allowing to at least partially understand the code on his own. But again, this is just all my take on it (ie, unsupported gibberish). I think the same. It's not that Ryder was suddenly able to do this but his mind had been altered as a result of SAM altering him to make it possible. Without SAM it's clearly more difficult but I'd imagine it would get easier the more often he does it. Not that it matters since SAM is present again.
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AnticsOfAnthony
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Post by AnticsOfAnthony on Apr 16, 2017 3:33:14 GMT
Edited to add - I don't think it is shear force of will that allows Ryder to summon the remnant. I think his neural pathways have been altered by SAM, allowing to at least partially understand the code on his own. But again, this is just all my take on it (ie, unsupported gibberish). I think the same. It's not that Ryder was suddenly able to do this but his mind had been altered as a result of SAM altering him to make it possible. Without SAM it's clearly more difficult but I'd imagine it would get easier the more often he does it. Not that it matters since SAM is present again. I agree, more or less. The "sheer force of will" was a bit dramatic, but I meant it as more that Ryder was able to open it without the use of an AI, and only a basic understanding of how it all works. Chances are that, since it was a symbiotic relationship between Ryder and SAM, Ryder retained just enough knowledge to work the Remnant Tech; but it was mentally taxing to do so, as Ryder even mentions post-game to their sibling how it felt like their mind was being turned inside out, and the nose bleed. SAM most certainly made it easier, but the tech could be used with just a neural connection/tech of some kind, and some understanding of how it all works - as Taavos demonstrates.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 3:36:54 GMT
I think the same. It's not that Ryder was suddenly able to do this but his mind had been altered as a result of SAM altering him to make it possible. Without SAM it's clearly more difficult but I'd imagine it would get easier the more often he does it. Not that it matters since SAM is present again. I agree, more or less. The "sheer force of will" was a bit dramatic, but I meant it as more that Ryder was able to open it without the use of an AI, and only a basic understanding of how it all works. Chances are that, since it was a symbiotic relationship between Ryder and SAM, Ryder retained just enough knowledge to work the Remnant Tech; but it was mentally taxing to do so, as Ryder even mentions post-game to their sibling how it felt like their mind was being turned inside out, and the nose bleed. SAM most certainly made it easier, but the tech could be used with just a neural connection/tech of some kind, and some understanding of how it all works - as Taavos demonstrates. I think the medical report implied a brain hemorrhage. I'm wondering though if like indoctrination, being around it too long can change you and maybe Ryder constantly interacting with the Remnant tech somehow absorbed something.
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Post by timebean on Apr 16, 2017 4:19:55 GMT
I agree, more or less. The "sheer force of will" was a bit dramatic, but I meant it as more that Ryder was able to open it without the use of an AI, and only a basic understanding of how it all works. Chances are that, since it was a symbiotic relationship between Ryder and SAM, Ryder retained just enough knowledge to work the Remnant Tech; but it was mentally taxing to do so, as Ryder even mentions post-game to their sibling how it felt like their mind was being turned inside out, and the nose bleed. SAM most certainly made it easier, but the tech could be used with just a neural connection/tech of some kind, and some understanding of how it all works - as Taavos demonstrates. I think the medial report implied a brain hemorrhage. I'm wondering though if like indoctrination, being around it too long can change you and maybe Ryder constantly interacting with the Remnant tech somehow absorbed something. What I found disturbing was the final terminal log on meridian, about weird stuff happening to the hemispheres of the brain (but I can't remember the specifics of it). But it gave me the chills when I read it, think about how the combination of SAM and screwing around with the remnant tech is fundamentally changing the way the Ryder twins' brains work. I can't wait to find more out about the Jardaan. Another wild theory - What if the whole Jardaan motivations are neither sinister nor benevolent, but simply scientific? I wonder if the religious themes in the game (ie, Suvi, the Kett) have been foreshadowing of something like a kind of holy war from the past. As scientists, perhaps t the Jaardan saw life as an equation to be solved (and they kinda did solve it). And the folks who attacked them with the scourge may have been religious zealots who saw what they were doing as blasphemous. Or vice versa.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 4:26:11 GMT
I think the medial report implied a brain hemorrhage. I'm wondering though if like indoctrination, being around it too long can change you and maybe Ryder constantly interacting with the Remnant tech somehow absorbed something. What I found disturbing was the final terminal log on meridian, about weird stuff happening to the hemispheres of the brain (but I can't remember the specifics of it). But it gave me the chills when I read it, think about how the combination of SAM and screwing around with the remnant tech is fundamentally changing the way the Ryder twins' brains work. I can't wait to find more out about the Jardaan. Another wild theory - What if the whole Jardaan motivations are neither sinister nor benevolent, but simply scientific? I wonder if the religious themes in the game (ie, Suvi, the Kett) have been foreshadowing of something like a kind of holy war from the past. As scientists, perhaps t the Jaardan saw life as an equation to be solved (and they kinda did solve it). And the folks who attacked them with the scourge may have been religious zealots who saw what they were doing as blasphemous. Or vice versa. As long as SAM is used they should be alright, but if they lost SAM again, I suspect permanent death. I was thinking that too about Scientists. Also after the Eos vault, Ryder wonders if the vaults were made to make worlds habitable, so the Jardaan were trying to restore or create new worlds to live in possibly.
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Post by timebean on Apr 16, 2017 4:38:24 GMT
What I found disturbing was the final terminal log on meridian, about weird stuff happening to the hemispheres of the brain (but I can't remember the specifics of it). But it gave me the chills when I read it, think about how the combination of SAM and screwing around with the remnant tech is fundamentally changing the way the Ryder twins' brains work. I can't wait to find more out about the Jardaan. Another wild theory - What if the whole Jardaan motivations are neither sinister nor benevolent, but simply scientific? I wonder if the religious themes in the game (ie, Suvi, the Kett) have been foreshadowing of something like a kind of holy war from the past. As scientists, perhaps t the Jaardan saw life as an equation to be solved (and they kinda did solve it). And the folks who attacked them with the scourge may have been religious zealots who saw what they were doing as blasphemous. Or vice versa. As long as SAM is used they should be alright, but if they lost SAM again, I suspect permanent death. I was thinking that too about Scientists. Also after the Eos vault, Ryder wonders if the vaults were made to make worlds habitable, so the Jardaan were trying to restore or create new worlds to live in possibly. HA! Just read through the whole thread and saw where you posted that earlier. I swear I wasn't copying it on purpose! But yeah, the whole meridian part was where that "lab" feeling came from for me. And the fact they had batches of unsuitable stock, etc. It had a very experimental feel.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 4:43:45 GMT
As long as SAM is used they should be alright, but if they lost SAM again, I suspect permanent death. I was thinking that too about Scientists. Also after the Eos vault, Ryder wonders if the vaults were made to make worlds habitable, so the Jardaan were trying to restore or create new worlds to live in possibly. HA! Just read through the whole thread and saw where you posted that earlier. I swear I wasn't copying it on purpose! But yeah, the whole meridian part was where that "lab" feeling came from for me. And the fact they had batches of unsuitable stock, etc. It had a very experimental feel. Yeah and I think the Angara were their successful attempt at creating organic life, while the Remnants are artificial and both seemed meant to work together.
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Post by canuckgamer on Apr 16, 2017 5:40:09 GMT
The Jaardan may have been eradicated in their war with whomever created the scourge. As a fail safe they sent Meridian and their AI machines to Heleus with a single job. Make it habitable and re-create their race. However, the scourge damaged the process and as a result their full genetic memory was not restored. Thus the Angara are in fact the Jaardan. While I could see it playing out this way I would prefer that this wasn't the case but I'm putting it out there.
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Post by kukumburr on Apr 16, 2017 14:08:51 GMT
I just went through Khi Tasira again and took screenshots of some of the scanned data pattern things you can find. Figured I'd dump them here. Data Pattern: Testing Report 42 Data Pattern: Testing Report 93 Data Pattern: Cluster Renewal Data Pattern: Announcement Data Pattern: Evacuation Notice Data Pattern: Saving Meridian
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Post by AnticsOfAnthony on Apr 16, 2017 16:34:13 GMT
I just went through Khi Tasira again and took screenshots of some of the scanned data pattern things you can find. Figured I'd dump them here. Data Pattern: Testing Report 42 Data Pattern: Testing Report 93 Data Pattern: Cluster Renewal Data Pattern: Announcement Data Pattern: Evacuation Notice Data Pattern: Saving Meridian VERY nice find! Just further goes to show that they value life, to an extent so great that they are willing to give up their own to ensure that Meridian, the source of all creation, continues on! Also supports the fact that the Jardaan, or at least the ones that were within the Heleus cluster, where primarily scientists and explorers!
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