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Post by Serza on Apr 18, 2017 9:28:27 GMT
This is Serza.
Serza got over Suvi not being straight or bi.
Be smart. Be like Serza.
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Post by Panda on Apr 18, 2017 10:37:04 GMT
#MakeJaalBi is not as much about the problem as it's proposed solution to the problem to me. There is no squdmate LI for m/m. Drack doesn't have romance content, Liam turns Scott down quickly. Jaal has romance content and is both squadmate and alien (something that m/m romances. are still lacking after 4 games) and Jaal doesn't turn Scott down so Jaal is most likely one from the three squadmates. He's only way to even have one squadmate as m/m LI.
There is problem and it's important to make devs notice the real problem and yes the real problem isn't that Jaal isn't bi, but that there is no m/m squadmate and that there is no m/m romance with equal content to other squadmate romances. But if there is a problem and that problem is without solution aka Bi Jaal, is there nothing left than to say: ME:A is shitty game, maybe better next time? Sure Bioware can try band-aiding the problem of making Gil's and Reyes' romances better, but how could they live up to squadmate romances if they can't even live up to squadmates as characters in terms of content?
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 18, 2017 17:10:04 GMT
I sort agree with you. But I'm tired of this shitshow and I'm not gonna spend more time here (so save your quotations, not gonna read them because I'm exhausted) In the #MakeJaalBi hashtag we talked about the m/m problem but Jaal is the main concern because of his squadmate status. Restoring his bisexuality would bring us fair content. Reyes and Gil romance expansion? Still no squadmate = less content than other demographics DlC squadmate? Still no squadmate in the vanilla game = less content than other demographics So yeah. That's it, no more hidden mystery behind it. completely agree. we need fleshed out characters and properly paced content that was intended for gay/bi men. bydoing this bio shows they care and respect their gay/bi players, because THAT is the place they fucked up. by converting straight character to bi (just look at how jaal behaves in game now) they are just (condescendingly) throwing a bone to petulant children, leaving real problem unaddressed. Thank you por calling me petulant child because I support #MakeJaalBi, I'm gonna tattoo that in my forehead Be happy you all Except there is no bi Jaal to restore. All I've seen is a single line from Scott saying, "I love you too Jaal." Considering a male inquisitor from DAI has lines with lesbian Sera, I don't think that counts as evidence.
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Post by General Aetius on Apr 18, 2017 18:04:26 GMT
I was just about to say: it's bestiality at the very least. Pffft no. It's a sentient intelligent being in that scenario, not an animal. I would pick a Turian, a Drell, an Angara and yes even a Salarian over a human guy any day of the week. Yeah well, noone will ever accuse you of being of sound mind. A bestial deviant.....probably.
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Apr 18, 2017 18:29:25 GMT
#MakeJaalBi is not as much about the problem as it's proposed solution to the problem to me. There is no squdmate LI for m/m. Drack doesn't have romance content, Liam turns Scott down quickly. Jaal has romance content and is both squadmate and alien (something that m/m romances. are still lacking after 4 games) and Jaal doesn't turn Scott down so Jaal is most likely one from the three squadmates. He's only way to even have one squadmate as m/m LI. There is problem and it's important to make devs notice the real problem and yes the real problem isn't that Jaal isn't bi, but that there is no m/m squadmate and that there is no m/m romance with equal content to other squadmate romances. But if there is a problem and that problem is without solution aka Bi Jaal, is there nothing left than to say: ME:A is shitty game, maybe better next time? Sure Bioware can try band-aiding the problem of making Gil's and Reyes' romances better, but how could they live up to squadmate romances if they can't even live up to squadmates as characters in terms of content? This about sums it up for me. Yes, there are a whole lot of other issues to deal with on top of this one that absolutely deserve attention, but this addresses one of the biggest of them – no squadmate romance, as in the inability to bring our love interest along on missions, hear them have banter with the other squad members, and just a general amount of content given to them is a serious issue as it stands. I mean, there’s still a lot of patching that should be devoted to Gil’s romance – he absolutely deserves more content, more conversations, more of a romance, and probably even a reworking of the existing content. But these issues are not mutually exclusive. And really, editing Jaal into being bi is probably one of the easier options available – fixing what is wrong with Gil’s romance involves removing existing content and adding new and altered content, which means bringing the voice actors back into the studio, and that’ll get more expensive if, for example, they were to attempt to add new banters among the rest of the crew about romancing Gil and Reyes. The coding and tweets from BroRyder’s VA indicate that the dialogue for a Jaal romance was recorded, and from what I understand, Jaal doesn’t even use much if any gendered dialogue towards Ryder in his romance. So from an economic standpoint, it’s a reasonable request that makes use of preexisting content available, rather than requiring BioWare to put out content that they would be losing money over because it involves paying the actors to come back into the studio. There absolutely should be calls for more and improved content for Gil and Reyes, but there’s also the awareness that BioWare and EA are businesses concerned with the bottom line of cost.
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Post by lurkinganon on Apr 18, 2017 23:32:15 GMT
Pffft no. It's a sentient intelligent being in that scenario, not an animal. I would pick a Turian, a Drell, an Angara and yes even a Salarian over a human guy any day of the week. Yeah well, noone will ever accuse you of being of sound mind. A bestial deviant.....probably. Not beastiality when they're consenting intelligent beings.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 1:37:05 GMT
This is Serza. Serza got over Suvi not being straight or bi. Be smart. Be like Serza. But you're a privileged straight menz who is always pandered to..
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Post by dark8sage on Apr 19, 2017 3:25:33 GMT
I don't think much will get fixed with this installment. It's about hoping the next one in 5-6 years doesn't suck complete shit like this one.
That we actually get attractive male squadmate M/M options instead of 2 sidelined NPC's made from character creator instead of unique art assets like squad mates.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 19, 2017 3:55:58 GMT
I don't think much will get fixed with this installment. It's about hoping the next one in 5-6 years doesn't suck complete shit like this one. That we actually get attractive male squadmate M/M options instead of 2 sidelined NPC's made from character creator instead of unique art assets like squad mates. Who says it'll be that long? It was 3 years between ME1 and ME2 and 2 years between ME2 and ME3. No reason to think it's another five years. The groundwork has already been lain for the Heleus System. It won't require as much work. But we could get a new squadmate who's exclusively m/m. I suppose BioWare made Liam say he's straight so people didn't have to feel like he'd be another Kaidan and eventually hook up with Scott.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 19, 2017 4:07:22 GMT
I just feel uncomfortable changing the sexuality of a character.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 5:13:18 GMT
Krogan for the next M/M love interest. I've been waiting on one for far too long! I'll be okay with a Turian too, but Krogan is at the top of my list. I still say Drack can solve the issue since he doesn't reject either Ryder's flirt. He already has ton of content too.
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Post by dgcatanisiri on Apr 19, 2017 6:04:03 GMT
I don't think much will get fixed with this installment. It's about hoping the next one in 5-6 years doesn't suck complete shit like this one. That we actually get attractive male squadmate M/M options instead of 2 sidelined NPC's made from character creator instead of unique art assets like squad mates. I have so many problems with the 'wait until the next installment' approach. Because we HAVE waited. Mass Effect is ten years old. It took FIVE years to get M/M romances included in the first place, and in the course of the next five, that actually took a step BACK - Kaidan was a squadmate in ME3 and Steve was crew. Andromeda gives us a crew and a planet-bound fling. It's a legitimate concern that waiting again will result in a WORSE step back, maybe back to nothing, or down to just romances like Reyes, who, regardless of whatever positives of his romance, is not actually registered as a romance. We simply CAN'T hang around and wait for next time. That's the whole point here. Waiting around, putting faith in BioWare to get it right 'next time' has resulted in the current situation.
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Post by leadintea on Apr 19, 2017 7:35:06 GMT
I'd rather they not change Jaal's sexuality. He was apparently written to be straight and that's how he was shipped out as in the game, so Bioware should stick to their guns and keep him straight. Personally, I feel this whole squadmate LI thing is blown way out of proportion. Yes, it would be very nice to have a m/m LI squadmate, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary in order to make a character feel like a viable romance option. Changing Jaal's sexuality by rewriting a bit of code here and there is more of a band-aiding quick fix than it is to actually create more content for Gil and Reyes, which is the route I much rather prefer.
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Post by wittand25 on Apr 19, 2017 8:38:16 GMT
I'd rather they not change Jaal's sexuality. He was apparently written to be straight and that's how he was shipped out as in the game, so Bioware should stick to their guns and keep him straight. Personally, I feel this whole squadmate LI thing is blown way out of proportion. Yes, it would be very nice to have a m/m LI squadmate, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary in order to make a character feel like a viable romance option. Changing Jaal's sexuality by rewriting a bit of code here and there is more of a band-aiding quick fix than it is to actually create more content for Gil and Reyes, which is the route I much rather prefer. Expanding Reyes and Gil is nice but does not address problems like the lack of options, or the lack of a squad mate or the lack of an alien option (I don´t care about that last bit but some do). Best case scenario would be a new, romanceable DLC-companion integrated in the game as well as Jaal was in ME3, but that is extremely unlikely for several reasons. (the costs and the effort necessary to implement the new companion so that he does not stick out are very high, since all VA for the other companions have to record new lines and so on). Second best options are ex aequo a temporary companion during a DLC- story arc (theoretically Reyes and/or Gil can fill this role even in that case the lack in numbers persists) or making one of the existing squad mates available to Scott. Liam in contrast to Jaal states in game that he is not interested in Scott, and Drack would be hardly well received leaving only Jaal as candidate for a Bi-patch. Regarding changing the sexuality of a companion BioWare already created a precedent with Kaidan (who contrary to popular belief was not indented to be bisexual in the first game but was in the same situation that he never expressed (dis)interest in male Shepard because the topic did not come up at all in ME1) and if the patch is accompanied by a statement of the form that Jaal was supposed to be bi , but later changed due to time constraints and was now restored while working on DLC (disregarding whether this is true or not) they can pull it off. The ME:A team really did drop the ball when it comes to m/m-romances and now there is no easy way that will satisfy everybody to resolve this issue. I really wonder what they decided to do though and am waiting for the official announcement of their plans. Though they should not wait until the two months are up, especially if the news is that they simply made new culmination scenes because the longer they wait with announcing their actions the saltier and bitterer the fans get and a new disappointment would be catastrophic if we had to wait two whole months for it.
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Post by leadintea on Apr 19, 2017 9:01:33 GMT
Yeah, the numbers thing would be a problem, but it should be fine if they change the trophy requirement to only needing 2 romances and have Reyes be counted as one.
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Post by Serza on Apr 19, 2017 9:57:23 GMT
This is Serza. Serza got over Suvi not being straight or bi. Be smart. Be like Serza. But you're a privileged straight menz who is always pandered to.. Damn right I am, and thus Suvi must instantly be changed to straight!!!!!111!1!!!ONE!!!!1!! I just feel uncomfortable changing the sexuality of a character. There's a point about that. What's the saying? "Better love and lose than never know"? I guess it applies to an extent.
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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 19, 2017 10:11:37 GMT
That's a big no thanks, from me. I want a plot relevant gay squadmate, but Gil being squad would just feel forced, like making Kallo squad. It's obvious it would only be because he's a romance. I'd rather they just made someone new that fit and that had a better connection to some aspect of the plot. Avitus would work, or somebody from the Quarian arc. Even if it's not an alien, just somebody with a history of combative experience and some plot relevant reason to be on squad. I'd like Reyes as a squadmate, too, but I'd also like a gay squadmate. Given that the lack of a squadmate option is probably the biggest complaint, I think it would be dick move to force players who ended up getting attached to Gil to choose between him and a squadmate. On the other hand, I don't see why Gil's promotion to squadmate can't happen alongside the addition of one or two new m/m squadmate options.- No gay/bi squadmate in MEA - Terrible handling of m/m content in MEA - No BW game ever having more than one gay man And now you are asking me to believe in two new m/m squadmate options AND Gil? Are you setting me up for complete and utter disappointment?
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Post by dark8sage on Apr 19, 2017 12:51:46 GMT
I don't think much will get fixed with this installment. It's about hoping the next one in 5-6 years doesn't suck complete shit like this one. That we actually get attractive male squadmate M/M options instead of 2 sidelined NPC's made from character creator instead of unique art assets like squad mates. I have so many problems with the 'wait until the next installment' approach. Because we HAVE waited. Mass Effect is ten years old. It took FIVE years to get M/M romances included in the first place, and in the course of the next five, that actually took a step BACK - Kaidan was a squadmate in ME3 and Steve was crew. Andromeda gives us a crew and a planet-bound fling. It's a legitimate concern that waiting again will result in a WORSE step back, maybe back to nothing, or down to just romances like Reyes, who, regardless of whatever positives of his romance, is not actually registered as a romance. We simply CAN'T hang around and wait for next time. That's the whole point here. Waiting around, putting faith in BioWare to get it right 'next time' has resulted in the current situation. What are you gonna do, spontaneously spawn proper M/M content by whining about it on unofficial forums? You are free to believe in the fantasy that they might actually sink money back into animation and booking voice actors back just to pacify us gay men who make up 4-5% of the population at best. I doubt the people behind the money with Bioware will make that judgement. At best we get some joke alien romance with Jaal. Sorry bubba, we ain't getting no James Vega on ME:A this time either. And let's be honest, we took Kaidan because that's all we had (he had the personality of a spoon, but was the only male human M/M squad mate). Steve Cortez was virtually the same shit we have now, some background ugly NPC made with character creator.
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Post by witchcocktor on Apr 19, 2017 13:04:19 GMT
I have so many problems with the 'wait until the next installment' approach. Because we HAVE waited. Mass Effect is ten years old. It took FIVE years to get M/M romances included in the first place, and in the course of the next five, that actually took a step BACK - Kaidan was a squadmate in ME3 and Steve was crew. Andromeda gives us a crew and a planet-bound fling. It's a legitimate concern that waiting again will result in a WORSE step back, maybe back to nothing, or down to just romances like Reyes, who, regardless of whatever positives of his romance, is not actually registered as a romance. We simply CAN'T hang around and wait for next time. That's the whole point here. Waiting around, putting faith in BioWare to get it right 'next time' has resulted in the current situation. What are you gonna do, spontaneously spawn proper M/M content by whining about it on unofficial forums? You are free to believe in the fantasy that they might actually sink money back into animation and booking voice actors back just to pacify us gay men who make up 4-5% of the population at best. I doubt the people behind the money with Bioware will make that judgement. At best we get some joke alien romance with Jaal. Sorry bubba, we ain't getting no James Vega on ME:A this time either. And let's be honest, we took Kaidan because that's all we had (he had the personality of a spoon, but was the only male human M/M squad mate). Steve Cortez was virtually the same shit we have now, some background ugly NPC made with character creator. BW has established themselves as an inclusive company, and there's proof of that in their games. When a company produces LGBT content in their media, it attracts attention of LGBT people, and people who enjoy LGBT content. Thus the percentage of LGBT players can be higher than one would expect. Take a bar for example, not a gay bar, but a '' regular '' bar. They go out of their way to include LGBT people in their advertisement and events, and want that good gay money. Don't you think such a bar would attract more LGBT people than a '' regular '' bar that doesn't go out of their way to be '' inclusive? '' Thus while the bar isn't by any means a gay bar, the percentage of LGBT people going there is higher than you'd imagine. I'm not saying that LGBT gamers or gay men make up a high percentage of ME community, but I just thought that using that statistic is a bit too much and can be deceiving.
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Post by Petroshenko on Apr 19, 2017 13:09:06 GMT
#MakeJaalBi is not as much about the problem as it's proposed solution to the problem to me. There is no squdmate LI for m/m. Nah. This is solely about wanting to bang Jaal specifically. You don't hear the same folks doing #MakeLiamBi campaign. And let's not kid ourselves with "but Liam specifically turns you down" excuse. Remove those 2 lines and Liam is 10x more sexually ambigious than Jaal who can't shut up about females, past history with females, flirting with every female he encounters in the game and wanting to sex them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2017 13:22:23 GMT
A male bi in DLC would be nice, but would he be backward compatible with the main game? Their regular DLCs are usually short, and tbh overpacked with dialogues so the whole romance will be really intense. My understanding is that with Zaeed and other two comps in ME2, they were already prepped, and just unlocked via DLC.
I am still hoping for a male Quarian romance. Cheap on animations too... but, that's a pipe-dream.
I dunno, overall, I feel they made the squad too small for straight romances to be there. It's the size of DA2 team, and in DA2, all squadmates were bi. The extended cast romances can work, but Reyes needs more proximity to the Tempest. Gil is so focused on his complicated relationship with Jill, that it's really hard to draw him into any romance. Also, why he has to be a human, not a Quarian, gods only knows. His Engineering position and unique skills lands him so well to a Quarian.... But people object to Jaal becoming a bi, I would imagine they would object to Gil's race change.
A DLC adding an extra adventure with Reyes, and permitting Reyes as joinable is not as resource heavy as a new character. He also only needs content for Kadara and Eladeen as he can't really join the team before Kadara is done.
Really, I would sign #MakeLiamBi tag, tbh, because it will work for me personally, but the game needs another male LI.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 19, 2017 16:24:45 GMT
As a gay man, I find your condescending lecture WAY more obnoxious than any campaign hashtag, or even all of them combined. It ranks slightly below the straight female gamers who whine about even the vague possibility of having to share their toys.
A lot of gay guys wanted Jaal (god knows why) and guess what? They're entitled to express that opinion. Accusing them of pettiness to try and get them to toe some party line you just invented is just shitty behaviour.
Besides, Jaal and Liam are the gayest characters in the entire game. Straight dudes do not swap clothes to "get to know each other better", that is the sort of flimsy narrative justification you only find in pornography.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 19, 2017 16:29:35 GMT
This is Serza. Serza got over Suvi not being straight or bi. Be smart. Be like Serza. Thank you for sharing your struggle.
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Post by Serza on Apr 19, 2017 16:32:43 GMT
This is Serza. Serza got over Suvi not being straight or bi. Be smart. Be like Serza. Thank you for sharing your struggle. What would you do without me, eh.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 19, 2017 16:35:27 GMT
Thank you for sharing your struggle. What would you do without me, eh. Put on a blindfold, grab the nearest guy, and make him my new token straight friend.
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