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Post by vertigomez on Apr 6, 2018 16:59:16 GMT
There's a disconnect between combat and how it's reflected in the games. There are millions of games that revolve around slaughtering people endlessly, yet almost none of them deal with just what effect that would have on people. Oddly enough, they did lampshade this odd disconnect in DA2 with Anders; Anders: I almost killed a girl. Varric: You've killed two-hundred and fifty four by my last count. Plus about five hundred men, a few dozen giant spiders, and at least two demons. Anders: It's not the same. Varric: Why? Because this one you feel bad about? Maybe that's the problem. I love moments like this that highlight the reality of what they do. Seriously, everyone should have some serious PTSD, aggressive compartmentalization or no. Bull has a few banters with Solas and Sera in the same vein; Solas: You fought the Tal-Vashoth for a long time, Iron Bull, did you not? Bull: Every day. I'd kill some of them, they'd kill some of my guys, and then I'd kill them some more. Solas: No man can kill so many people without breaking inside. To survive... those you fight must become monsters. Bull: The ones that kill innocent people, yeah. The rest... I don't know. Solas: The mind does marvelous things to protect itself.
Bull: Nice job in that last fight, Solas. You really kicked the crap outta that guy. Solas: I suppose. Bull: What, you don't think so? You ripped him a new one. It was great! Solas: Unless the fight is personal, violence is a means to an end. It isn't appropriate to celebrate. Bull: I don't know. Gotta wonder about anyone who fights as much as we do and doesn't have some fun with it. Solas: We have fought living men, with loves and families, and all that they might have been is gone. Bull: Yeah, but they were assholes!
Bull: Hey, Sera, you see how I took that one guy's head clean off? Fantastic, right? Sera: Ew. Parts are gross. Bull: Really? You kill how many people, and one little decapitation bugs you? Sera: Killing, whatever. But when a bit comes off, it's not them anymore. You don't see that? It's like, suddenly meat. Bull: No. No, I've never seen that.
Bull: I think I figured out how you fight, Sera. Sera: Good for you? Bull: You don’t actually like thinking about hurting people, do you? Chopping them down, making the blood spray... Sera: It’s not the hurting. It’s, ugh, parts. Bull: Right. So if we hack them up, you have to do it without thinking about it. Sera: So? Bull: I don’t know. I thought it was interesting. Sera: I don’t need to think about what I do. I do what I do.
Sera: Wait, Bull. All that rot you said about hacking people. Bull: Yeah? Sera: You do like it? Bull: Oh, yes. Finding someone who needs killing and just taking them apart… brutally, skillfully, so their last living thought is realizing that I’m stronger and smarter than they are? Yeah, I like that a lot. Sera: That’s weird. Bull: I didn’t say it was healthy. Look, I can either press those feelings down until I snap and hurt someone I care about, or we can go find some bad guys who need to die. Sera: Right, uh. Bring on the baddies.
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Post by phoray on Apr 6, 2018 17:07:55 GMT
vertigomezLove it. I once played an Inky who liked to pretend like she was a badass. hated Erimund with everything in her, it was the first time she'd ever hated someone so much. I really sat and stewed in the emotional fallout she had after executing him and cried a little with her afterwards. It's so different, to kill people defensively. But to walk up on a stage as those who view you as the prophet look on as if it's some sort of righteous entertainment. See how Erimond quivers in fear despite all his big words about how he'd get his payment in the afterlife. Know that you could just as well have locked him up. Technically, Inky doesn't see the approvals roll up on the screen, but imagine you look out over the crowd and even some of your friends are giving you the thumbs up or a nod. It was sickening, she was sickened. I felt nauseus too.
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Post by phoray on Apr 6, 2018 17:16:11 GMT
Am I adorably naive because I take a "superhero" perspective to the games and don't assume that every enemy I fight actually dies? Not a bad stance. In The Witcher 3 DLC Hearts of Stone, I mention to a companion NPC that I could just fight my way in. Her response is she'd rather not have to stitch them up later. Implying that not everyone who falls to the ground with no life bar dies. but then there are actual situations where Geralt says he doesn't want to kill anyone, and specifically uses a wooden sword or his own fists to take out their life bar. so the game is making the distinction, I supposed, between battered and bruised to unconsiousness vs being sliced up by swords. To add on to that, I'm certain all the people I sunk Geralt's sword into their chests, or decapitated them, or even chopped them in half, lost and arm, lost a leg....unlikely to survive those encounters. Definitely dead. In DA 2 and DAI I don't think there are any "sinking your blades in" or decapitations, so at least in those games you could imagine that hawke is leaving Aveline to collect them for prison, and that Inky is doing the same
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Post by Sunegami on Apr 6, 2018 17:21:03 GMT
hawke is leaving Aveline to collect them for prison This is my new headcanon. I could even see my Hawke tying a big bow on them for Aveline! XD
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Post by vertigomez on Apr 6, 2018 17:33:06 GMT
Am I adorably naive because I take a "superhero" perspective to the games and don't assume that every enemy I fight actually dies? I assume that some of them live. They're unconscious or something. But most of them...... vertigomez Love it. I once played an Inky who liked to pretend like she was a badass. hated Erimund with everything in her, it was the first time she'd ever hated someone so much. I really sat and stewed in the emotional fallout she had after executing him and cried a little with her afterwards. It's so different, to kill people defensively. But to walk up on a stage as those who view you as the prophet look on as if it's some sort of righteous entertainment. See how Erimond quivers in fear despite all his big words about how he'd get his payment in the afterlife. Know that you could just as well have locked him up. Technically, Inky doesn't see the approvals roll up on the screen, but imagine you look out over the crowd and even some of your friends are giving you the thumbs up or a nod. It was sickening, she was sickened. I felt nauseus too. Yep. You just have to get in that mindset of this is the world they live in, these are the lives they lead. I'm horrified at the thought of killing anybody but my Inquisitor and Hawke, etc. simply can't be. They might try to avoid it or justify it or "turn it off" when they're off the clock so to speak, but, ah..... helping people and killing people are what they're best at. As a player, it's definitely a lot easier for me to kill nameless aggressive mooks than it is for me to kill Anders or Loghain or Alexius.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 6, 2018 18:04:05 GMT
Am I adorably naive because I take a "superhero" perspective to the games and don't assume that every enemy I fight actually dies? They just fainted.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 6, 2018 21:47:30 GMT
I would love if in DA4 we had non-lethal alternatives.
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Post by phoray on Apr 6, 2018 22:50:15 GMT
I would love if in DA4 we had non-lethal alternatives. I noticed in playing TW3 that experience was given based on completion of a quest and not based on killed foes. You could opt not to kill things and still get experience. Do you think a system like this would work? I dunno, last three games have been filled with fields of mooks to kill. It's be a big departure
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 6, 2018 23:21:52 GMT
I would love if in DA4 we had non-lethal alternatives. I noticed in playing TW3 that experience was given based on completion of a quest and not based on killed foes. You could opt not to kill things and still get experience. Do you think a system like this would work? I dunno, last three games have been filled with fields of mooks to kill. It's be a big departure I think it could work, yes. For Dragon Age, perhaps there could be a skill tree and/or types of weapons that can register as you being non-lethal in your actions. I imagine Vaea if a companion would have it since she like Josephine hates the idea of killing people thus never does so.
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Post by vertigomez on Apr 6, 2018 23:51:28 GMT
I think some non-lethal alternatives are always a good idea - there are situations where you're able to spare people, etc. But I doubt they're going to give us convenient knockout gas for every enemy we face. In-universe, those people could just show up again and kill us later, or kill our allies. I don't think there's a huge prison we could just transport everyone who tries to fight us. What about whole armies? Waves of mooks?
So far every DA and ME protagonist has blood on their hands in some fashion or another.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Apr 7, 2018 0:08:06 GMT
I think that one problem with non-lethal combat options is that many ways of taking people out that are usually presented as non-lethal in fiction are actually very dangerous in real life. Knocking people unconscious can easily kill them in a setting without modern medicine (don't know how good healing magic is at fixing a brain haemorrhage) and being hit on the head repeatedly causes brain damage. If safe and effective knock-out gas were a thing then we would not need anaesthetists.
Thedas is a magic setting, so they could always go with conveniently harmless sleep magic. But failing that 'the protagonist knocks everyone out and later they are Just Fine' isn't really any more realistic than 'the protagonist kills hundreds of people and is Just Fine.'
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Apr 7, 2018 18:03:22 GMT
I think that one problem with non-lethal combat options is that many ways of taking people out that are usually presented as non-lethal in fiction are actually very dangerous in real life. Knocking people unconscious can easily kill them in a setting without modern medicine (don't know how good healing magic is at fixing a brain haemorrhage) and being hit on the head repeatedly causes brain damage. If safe and effective knock-out gas were a thing then we would not need anaesthetists. Thedas is a magic setting, so they could always go with conveniently harmless sleep magic. But failing that 'the protagonist knocks everyone out and later they are Just Fine' isn't really any more realistic than 'the protagonist kills hundreds of people and is Just Fine.' The protagonist doesn't have to always use brute force in order to gain informations or convincing foes to avoid the battle,but in any case that would still look to me more belivable than a protagonist who is always able to engage combat and win with no injuries against hundreds if not thousands of enemies.
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Post by opuspace on Apr 7, 2018 19:28:16 GMT
I think that one problem with non-lethal combat options is that many ways of taking people out that are usually presented as non-lethal in fiction are actually very dangerous in real life. Knocking people unconscious can easily kill them in a setting without modern medicine (don't know how good healing magic is at fixing a brain haemorrhage) and being hit on the head repeatedly causes brain damage. If safe and effective knock-out gas were a thing then we would not need anaesthetists. Thedas is a magic setting, so they could always go with conveniently harmless sleep magic. But failing that 'the protagonist knocks everyone out and later they are Just Fine' isn't really any more realistic than 'the protagonist kills hundreds of people and is Just Fine.' *Hits enemy over the head with a pot* "Hooray! Non-lethal-uh, is he supposed to be twitching like that? Hello?" *Pokes with a stick.* "Cole? How many of those knockout bombs do you have?"
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Post by Sifr on Apr 7, 2018 20:35:29 GMT
I think that one problem with non-lethal combat options is that many ways of taking people out that are usually presented as non-lethal in fiction are actually very dangerous in real life. Knocking people unconscious can easily kill them in a setting without modern medicine (don't know how good healing magic is at fixing a brain haemorrhage) and being hit on the head repeatedly causes brain damage. If safe and effective knock-out gas were a thing then we would not need anaesthetists.This fictional conceit is abused ridiculously in the later Star Trek shows, where their hyposprays were presented as always having the correct dosage for "instant knock-outs" and "instant wake up". With the amount of times people in Starfleet were knocked out by that gizmo, you'd figure they'd eventually be left with an insane drug tolerance. Even in a Sci-fi setting with medicine so good it might as well be magic, knocking people out with drugs should not have been that easy/safe.
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Post by secretrare on Apr 10, 2018 13:14:45 GMT
DAO plot is just generic fantasy.It reminds me of the fantasy books I read in high school. I wouldn't read anything like that again though. I guess I've moved beyond those simple kinds of narratives.
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Post by warden on Apr 10, 2018 13:17:00 GMT
DAO plot is just generic fantasy.It reminds me of the fantasy books I read in high school. I wouldn't read anything like that again though. I guess I've moved beyond those simple kinds of narratives. the entire Dragon Age series is generic fantasy to be honest.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 10, 2018 15:29:41 GMT
DAO plot is just generic fantasy.It reminds me of the fantasy books I read in high school. I wouldn't read anything like that again though. I guess I've moved beyond those simple kinds of narratives. Eh, the Qunari are kinda new. And the archdemon's concept too.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 10, 2018 15:34:14 GMT
Merrill isn't pure and innocent. She is incredibly sarcastic in party banter and often without cause.
Varric meant no offense with his comment about elves frolicking, but she had to be an ass and say "Not in the woods. The trees get jealous". Aveline was open minded enough to ask IF the mirror is dangerous instead of STATING it, but Merrill responded with "Oh! Only if you stand under it".
Of course, most people would believe she literally meant what she said because she is such a "cute puppy".
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Post by Catilina on Apr 10, 2018 15:56:08 GMT
Merrill isn't pure and innocent. She is incredibly sarcastic in party banter and often without cause. Varric meant no offense with his comment about elves frolicking, but she had to be an ass and say "Not in the woods. The trees get jealous". Aveline was open minded enough to ask IF the mirror is dangerous instead of STATING it, but Merrill responded with "Oh! Only if you stand under it". Of course, most people would believe she literally meant what she said because she is such a "cute puppy". She's a sarcastic cute puppy... with sharp teeth, if needs.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 10, 2018 16:08:13 GMT
Merrill isn't pure and innocent. She is incredibly sarcastic in party banter and often without cause. Varric meant no offense with his comment about elves frolicking, but she had to be an ass and say "Not in the woods. The trees get jealous". Aveline was open minded enough to ask IF the mirror is dangerous instead of STATING it, but Merrill responded with "Oh! Only if you stand under it". Of course, most people would believe she literally meant what she said because she is such a "cute puppy". She's a sarcastic cute puppy... with sharp teeth, if needs. Sometimes she uses her teeth with no good reason.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 10, 2018 16:27:22 GMT
She's a sarcastic cute puppy... with sharp teeth, if needs. Sometimes she uses her teeth with no good reason. When she do such a thing?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 10, 2018 16:29:12 GMT
Merrill isn't pure and innocent.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 10, 2018 16:29:23 GMT
Sometimes she uses her teeth with no good reason. When she do such a thing? I literally just explained that.
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Games: Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 240 Likes: 212
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Post by secretrare on Apr 10, 2018 17:24:30 GMT
DAO plot is just generic fantasy.It reminds me of the fantasy books I read in high school. I wouldn't read anything like that again though. I guess I've moved beyond those simple kinds of narratives. Eh, the Qunari are kinda new. And the archdemon's concept too. The AD is the archetypal High Fantasy villain He usually lurks in an intimidating fortress in a near-uninhabitable landscape, plotting to Take Over the World (if he doesn't already rule it), with hordes upon hordes of beastlike warriors (who must be none too bright, otherwise they would've overthrown him) at his beck and call.If you manage to defeat him without defeating his army,you win,like Sauron.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 10, 2018 17:36:37 GMT
Eh, the Qunari are kinda new. And the archdemon's concept too. The AD is the archetypal High Fantasy villain He usually lurks in an intimidating fortress in a near-uninhabitable landscape, plotting to Take Over the World (if he doesn't already rule it), with hordes upon hordes of beastlike warriors (who must be none too bright, otherwise they would've overthrown him) at his beck and call.If you manage to defeat him without defeating his army,you win,like Sauron. There are some original details, like being corrupted by the taint and attracting darkspawn with a song.
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