DoctorFox
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Post by DoctorFox on Apr 18, 2017 15:25:58 GMT
They're categorised under 'Pistols' now but clearly an SMG is not a pistol. I mean there's a huge difference between a Carnifex and say an N7 Hurricane.
What's the deal?
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steppinrazor
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Post by steppinrazor on Apr 18, 2017 15:54:02 GMT
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steppinrazor
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Post by steppinrazor on Apr 18, 2017 15:55:17 GMT
But with that, not all SMGs are "machine pistols", so yea it's kinda weird they did that. Whatever.
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Pyrceval78
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Post by Pyrceval78 on Apr 18, 2017 15:58:18 GMT
Cause they took the easy way out on everything, including weapons.
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Post by Serza on Apr 18, 2017 16:03:41 GMT
*shrug* SMGs are often chambered in the same calibers as pistols. Same goes for PDWs. They actually collapsed pistols, automatic pistols, PDWs and SMGs into one category.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Apr 18, 2017 16:05:00 GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submachine_gunA submachine gun (SMG) is a magazine-fed, automatic carbine designed to fire pistol cartridges. The term "submachine gun" was coined by John T. Thompson, the inventor of the Thompson submachine gun. The submachine gun was developed during World War I (1914–1918). At its zenith during World War II (1939–1945), millions of SMGs were made. After the war, new SMG designs appeared frequently. However, by the 1980s, SMG usage decreased. Today, submachine guns have been largely replaced by assault rifles, which have a greater effective range and are capable of penetrating the helmets and body armor used by modern infantrymen. However, submachine guns are still used by military special forces and police SWAT teams for close quarters battle (CQB) because they are "a pistol caliber weapon that's easy to control, and less likely to over-penetrate the target."You have only 5 weapon slots so they wanted to do 5 categories, just a design thingy.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 18, 2017 16:06:47 GMT
I suppose it doesn't matter now since weapons are not restricted to specific slots in our loadout, not to mention that we can carry multiple of the same weapon type.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Apr 18, 2017 16:57:38 GMT
Also remember how SMGs were held as pistols by the player and squad? And also were mostly useless once everyone had access to other weapons and enough ammo?
Yeah, not sorry to see them go.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 17:43:03 GMT
I suppose it doesn't matter now since weapons are not restricted to specific slots in our loadout, not to mention that we can carry multiple of the same weapon type. This. Why not? If anything, it means that you don't have to invest in two separate skills for pistols and SMG's, and I think that's just right.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 18, 2017 17:53:59 GMT
What worries me more is that they don't have stocks. Firing a fully automatic gun without a shoulder stock is nasty and extremely inaccurate. You only collapse the stock for transport or when shooting inside a vehicle. .
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Post by phnx on Apr 18, 2017 18:42:23 GMT
Streamlining design-mechanics to save resources.
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VanSinn
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 18, 2017 20:09:44 GMT
They were mashed together for the skill trees in the combat group. With all of the active abilities, plus the two pure passives, if pistols and SMG's were separate groups, the combat tree would have had one extra power than Tech and Biotics. It's just a classification thing, though. They still have their same uses (fast firing SMG's are good vs shields, but weak vs armor, slower firing pistols are good vs armor, not as good vs shields, etc) and most things about how they were implemented in ME2 and ME3 are the same, they were just lumped together because of the number of skills. That's all.
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OrbitalWings
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Post by OrbitalWings on Apr 18, 2017 20:21:09 GMT
Plus it helps declutter inventory, stat bonuses from Skills & other gear, and relevant mods/augmentations & the like. Imagine the sheer number of items we'd have to sort through if we also had 'SMG Barrel IV', 'SMG Stock III', etc. to worry about.
I do really appreciate that despite being 'lumped in' with pistols, they actually do finally have the correct holding animation now unlike ME3.
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Post by Lavochkin on Apr 18, 2017 20:27:17 GMT
Also remember how SMGs were held as pistols by the player and squad? And also were mostly useless once everyone had access to other weapons and enough ammo? Yeah, not sorry to see them go. They actually have them hold it properly in Andromeda now, which is one of the minor additions in the game that i really dug(along with them finally adding blindfire to the franchise). s19.postimg.org/hqs0ktchv/Mass_Effect_Andromeda_2017-03-27_22-12-26-07.jpg
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Post by Serza on Apr 18, 2017 20:33:53 GMT
What worries me more is that they don't have stocks. Firing a fully automatic gun without a shoulder stock is nasty and extremely inaccurate. You only collapse the stock for transport or when shooting inside a vehicle. . Thank you. That needed to be said, and is also the reason Glock 18 is barely understandable without a conversion into a PDW (yes, they make those for G18s). When I had my hands on the Škorpion SMGs, both the old Vz 61 and the new Evo 3, I remember the Evo 3 having a collapsible stock... THAT I KEPT ON AND SHOULDERED. I remember the Vz 61 having a collapsible over-the-top stock that allowed it to be used as a pistol with an untraditional mag placement. I still extended the stock and SHOULDERED. It may have had something to do with the Vz 61 stock extend motion being badass as fuck. Y'see, the stock is a wire-type and extends over the top of the weapon, with the rear hugging the muzzle in collapsed position. What you do is give it a nudge from below and the spring will... spring it into position, where you just give it another nudge down to secure it in place. The only disadvantage is that you can easily sweep your hand when extending it, so KEEP THAT FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. But yeah. The Vz 61, being a 7.65mm Browning round, has very little recoil. And I had zero perceived, if my memory is correct. Similar story on the Evo 3. But I digress. I was rather happy that animations in MEA show characters shouldering (or something that looks like shouldering) their weapons when firing - maybe not from the hip, but definitely in aimed state. Even with a replica, it's easy to see why you shoulder a weapon before shooting.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 18, 2017 21:23:08 GMT
I suppose it doesn't matter now since weapons are not restricted to specific slots in our loadout, not to mention that we can carry multiple of the same weapon type. This. You can carry three or four SMG's at the same time, and you're discussing the category they've put them in which doesn't matter at all?
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sdzald
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Post by sdzald on Apr 18, 2017 21:36:43 GMT
They're categorised under 'Pistols' now but clearly an SMG is not a pistol. I mean there's a huge difference between a Carnifex and say an N7 Hurricane. What's the deal? If I had to guess I would say more Bioware laziness. If they created another weapon line that would require another Combat spec line in profiles, not to mention an entirely new line of research, augmentation etc. In fairness to Bioware I am not sure it would have been worth all that effort.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 18, 2017 22:13:23 GMT
They're categorised under 'Pistols' now but clearly an SMG is not a pistol. I mean there's a huge difference between a Carnifex and say an N7 Hurricane. What's the deal? If I had to guess I would say more Bioware laziness. If they created another weapon line that would require another Combat spec line in profiles, not to mention an entirely new line of research, augmentation etc. In fairness to Bioware I am not sure it would have been worth all that effort. A dedicated tree for a fifth weapon type, especially something that's just a notch away from pistols in the game anyhow, seems like a major waste of time and points. I mean, really, they still modeled and worked in these weapons into the game and even improved the character's holding position, and didn't bother with any superfluous specs that we'd squander points in. This is clearly by design. Frankly this is more a nitpick than a legit issue with the mechanics.
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