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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:09:13 GMT
I have nothing against sexy outfits in fiction. As long as these sexy women are interesting characters it's perfectly fine. Agreed. I played Bayonetta recently and hated it, not because she is sexy, but because she sucks as a character. |
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Post by aglomeracja on May 6, 2017 0:09:30 GMT
1. I won't read the whole thread right now, but I'm quite sure that carefull didn't have any problem with how Ciri looks after reading the last page alone. 2. Do you think that homosexual female gamers wouldn't find Ciri attractive? 3. Do you think that heterosexual female gamers wouldn't like to roleplay as Ciri because of her looks\dressing? I don't know for sure and obviously everyone has their own preferences, but powerful, good-looking, bisexual female protagonist who wears whatever she wants and still can kick ass isn't what I would associate with patriarchy or even pandering to heterosexual male audience. And I mean it, even on CDPR forums mostly men were complaining about impractical shoes. That's actually something that men tend to do in my experience  Where do you read any disagreement with any of this? All I am saying is that Ciri looks sexy because they want her to look sexy, not because of any hand waving about lore. Same reason Geralt doesn't look like he had his face mashed with a mallet this time around. Men are weird is why. "The reason I brought it up was that it is a clear case of crafting a character's look to please a predominantly heterosexual male audience." I disagree with that  ...and just pointing out that out of all possible sexy outfits they chose one that is actually compatible with the lore- I guess that lore does have something to do with it then |
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Post by mugwump v1 on May 6, 2017 0:11:15 GMT
To me, the point is moot. Besides, stating that men might like to play a handsome protagonist kind of undercuts the point you made about Ciri's visual design, no? How so? Men want to look good while looking at good looking women? I assume that is a fact. Sure, but you're arguing in bad faith if you refuse to acknowledge that the opposite is not true of women. Right? |
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erikson
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:11:42 GMT
Where do you read any disagreement with any of this? All I am saying is that Ciri looks sexy because they want her to look sexy, not because of any hand waving about lore. Same reason Geralt doesn't look like he had his face mashed with a mallet this time around. Men are weird is why. "The reason I brought it up was that it is a clear case of crafting a character's look to please a predominantly heterosexual male audience." I disagree with that ...and just pointing out that out of all possible sexy outfits they chose one that is actually compatible with the lore- I guess that lore does have something to do with it then Yes, but they chose it because it was sexy. It the last outfit we saw her wearing in the book series was a potatoe sack, I doubt that is what she would have been running around the game in. |
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erikson
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:12:30 GMT
How so? Men want to look good while looking at good looking women? I assume that is a fact. Sure, but you're arguing in bad faith if you refuse to acknowledge that the opposite is not true of women. Right? I would be, if I was doing so. That was not the subject at hand. Of course it is true of women as well. |
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Post by decafhigh on May 6, 2017 0:13:46 GMT
How so? Men want to look good while looking at good looking women? I assume that is a fact. Sure, but you're arguing in bad faith if you refuse to acknowledge that the opposite is not true of women. Right? You can assume for a fact that I want to look good while looking at good looking women. That gets you half way there. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 0:18:42 GMT
Then she should be tripping over her feet all the time during fights, and face planting in the mud. The reason I brought it up was that it is a clear case of crafting a character's look to please a predominantly heterosexual male audience. Same goes for the alternate Yen/Triss outfits which max out the sex and cleavage (which I why I never used them in game, they just look silly). I don't really care myself, but carefull clearly does, and I am not so much of a fanataic as to dimiss every other person's concerns, and right to have them, because they are not my own. I'll will say to anyone who does not thinks that Ciri has high heeled boots to appear sexy to the player that I have a bridge outside Novigrad to sell you that, under which, is definitely not infested with trolls. 1. I won't read the whole thread right now, but I'm quite sure that carefull didn't have any problem with how Ciri looks after reading the last page alone. 2. Do you think that homosexual female gamers wouldn't find Ciri attractive? 3. Do you think that heterosexual female gamers wouldn't like to roleplay as Ciri because of her looks\dressing? I don't know for sure and obviously everyone has their own preferences, but powerful, good-looking, bisexual female protagonist who wears whatever she wants and still can kick ass isn't what I would associate with patriarchy or even pandering to heterosexual male audience. And I mean it, even on CDPR forums mostly men were complaining about impractical shoes. That's actually something that men tend to do in my experience I'd say all of that is subject to individual tastes and preferences. I tend to value function over form and practicality over someone else's idea of sexy. My idea of what's sexy and appealing involves attire that is situation appropriate - and I'm not a big fan of bare skin in any event. I prefer they leave some things to my imagination, and allow me the opportunity to unwrap the package. |
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 6, 2017 0:19:39 GMT
Thank you. Why is she even relevant? I don't think she is relevant right now? You know... being a skeptic from New York... she doesn't appear at all genuine. She comes off as an opportunist. Whatever. She doesn't work at Bioware, right? |
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erikson
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:19:50 GMT
Sure, but you're arguing in bad faith if you refuse to acknowledge that the opposite is not true of women. Right? You can assume for a fact that I want to look good while looking at good looking women. That gets you half way there. Oh gawd! Being so predictable! |
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Post by mugwump v1 on May 6, 2017 0:22:20 GMT
Right, so if it's as true of women as it is men, you might want to amend your earlier statement that Ciri's visual design was a...
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:26:33 GMT
I would be, if I was doing so. That was not the subject at hand. Of course it is true of women as well.[/quote Right, so if it's true of women and men, you might want to amend your earlier statement that Ciri's visual design was a ? So? How does saying women want to look sexy negate that the design is geared mostly towards men, who are the majority player base. Really I don't get this stubborn refusal to acknowledge basic common sense, even when debating with someone who doesn't have a problem with sexuality in games geared towards either a male or female audience. Is it because if you conceded this little bit that a wave of SJW hawks will pick you apart? You can take a nuanced approach which acknowledges reality without supporting any kind of SJW extremism. |
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Post by friffy on May 6, 2017 0:26:58 GMT
That ugly rags must burn!  up load photosSeriously though, Yenn and Ciri's default outfits are my favorites in the game ( I downloaded mods of them to use in my last aborted Skyrim playthrough, but didn't end up using them since they looked silly in that world).. I just don't go in for tons of cleavage or stockinged legs. I do agree I think Triss' outfit in W2 was better. Only Ciri...no one else could get away with it! Well...maybe Hawke! Hm, well, no witcher fan at all but I loved the Yen outfit and added it to Skyrim - although the first thing I did was "killing" the high heels.  Turned out not so bad by the looks of it... but it certainly is not to everyones liking. |
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Post by mugwump v1 on May 6, 2017 0:29:18 GMT
So? How does saying women want to look sexy negate that the design is geared mostly towards men, who are the majority player base. Really I don't get this stubborn refusal to acknowledge basic common sense, even when debating with someone who doesn't have a problem with sexuality in games geared towards either a male or female audience. Is it because if you conceded this little bit that a wave of SJW hawks will pick you apart? You can take a nuanced approach which acknowledges reality without supporting any kind of SJW extremism. You make no case for the visual design of that character being geared mostly towards men though Erikson. None! Or have I missed it? |
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:29:56 GMT
That ugly rags must burn! up load photosSeriously though, Yenn and Ciri's default outfits are my favorites in the game ( I downloaded mods of them to use in my last aborted Skyrim playthrough, but didn't end up using them since they looked silly in that world).. I just don't go in for tons of cleavage or stockinged legs. I do agree I think Triss' outfit in W2 was better. Only Ciri...no one else could get away with it! Well...maybe Hawke! Hm, well, no witcher fan at all but I loved the Yen outfit and added it to Skyrim - although the first thing I did was "killing" the high heels. Turned out not so bad by the looks of it... but it certainly is not to everyones liking. That is the default, which I love, I as speaking of the one on the right-  free image cdn |
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:35:51 GMT
So? How does saying women want to look sexy negate that the design is geared mostly towards men, who are the majority player base. Really I don't get this stubborn refusal to acknowledge basic common sense, even when debating with someone who doesn't have a problem with sexuality in games geared towards either a male or female audience. Is it because if you conceded this little bit that a wave of SJW hawks will pick you apart? You can take a nuanced approach which acknowledges reality without supporting any kind of SJW extremism. You make no case for the design visual design of that game being geared mostly towards men though Erikson. None! Or have I missed it? Case? Do you deny that the majority of video game players are male, and that a majority of males are attracted to women? It is common sense, and can be seen throughout all of advertising and marketing. Do I need to find a bunch of quotes from the film staff to prove that this here was design to look sexually appealing-  online gif hostingI repeat, it is not a criticism, just an acknowledgment of the way the world works. |
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Post by friffy on May 6, 2017 0:40:38 GMT
That is the default, which I love, I as speaking of the one on the right- free image cdnSorry, my fault. I didn't know you were talking about the right one - but what's wrong with stockings? I see stockings everywhere: in Skyrim, in Fallout. I'm not familiar with modding BW games but if possible then they certainly will find a way into Andromda, too. |
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:41:46 GMT
That is the default, which I love, I as speaking of the one on the right- free image cdnSorry, my fault. I didn't know you were talking about the right one - but what's wrong with stockings? I see stockings everywhere: in Skyrim, in Fallout. I'm not familiar with modding BW games but if possible then they certainly will find a way into Andromda, too. Nothing is wrong with them...I just don't personally like the look. Just my personal aesthetic, nothing more. |
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Post by aglomeracja on May 6, 2017 0:43:22 GMT
So? How does saying women want to look sexy negate that the design is geared mostly towards men, who are the majority player base. Really I don't get this stubborn refusal to acknowledge basic common sense, even when debating with someone who doesn't have a problem with sexuality in games geared towards either a male or female audience. Is it because if you conceded this little bit that a wave of SJW hawks will pick you apart? You can take a nuanced approach which acknowledges reality without supporting any kind of SJW extremism. Mate, she dressed like that when she was in a lesbian relationship. She wanted to be attractive to her female partner and noticed by everyone else as well. From my point of view there is absolutely no reason to claim that it's supposed to be appealing to straight male audience only because why wouldn't homosexual women find her attractive as well? ...and why wouldn't straight women like roleplaying as her? She's not a stay-at-home mum cooking dinner for her husband, she's a powerful character who kicks ass in a very hostile world. If there's anyone who doesn't like this type of protagonists, it's probably conservative men. |
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Post by ShadowAngel on May 6, 2017 0:46:13 GMT
You make no case for the design visual design of that game being geared mostly towards men though Erikson. None! Or have I missed it? Case? Do you deny that the majority of video game players are male, and that a majority of males are attracted to women? It is common sense, and can be seen throughout all of advertising and marketing. Do I need to find a bunch of quotes from the film staff to prove that this here was design to look sexually appealing- online gif hostingI repeat, it is not a criticism, just an acknowledgment of the way the world works. I think you can be surprised how many female gamers there are. i have multiple links at the ready as well if you really want them. |
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:46:23 GMT
So? How does saying women want to look sexy negate that the design is geared mostly towards men, who are the majority player base. Really I don't get this stubborn refusal to acknowledge basic common sense, even when debating with someone who doesn't have a problem with sexuality in games geared towards either a male or female audience. Is it because if you conceded this little bit that a wave of SJW hawks will pick you apart? You can take a nuanced approach which acknowledges reality without supporting any kind of SJW extremism. Mate, she dressed like that when she was in a lesbian relationship. She wanted to be attractive to her female partner and noticed by everyone else as well. From my point of view there is absolutely no reason to claim that it's supposed to be appealing to straight male audience only because why wouldn't homosexual women find her attractive as well? ...and why wouldn't straight women like roleplaying as her? She's not a stay-at-home mum cooking dinner for her husband, she's a powerful character who kicks ass in a very hostile world. If there's anyone who doesn't like this type of protagonists, it's probably conservative men. No one is arguing against any of these points...really, I think the culture wars have warped a lot of people's brains and made them paranoid. |
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 0:54:04 GMT
Case? Do you deny that the majority of video game players are male, and that a majority of males are attracted to women? It is common sense, and can be seen throughout all of advertising and marketing. Do I need to find a bunch of quotes from the film staff to prove that this here was design to look sexually appealing- online gif hostingI repeat, it is not a criticism, just an acknowledgment of the way the world works. I think you can be surprised how many female gamers there are. i have multiple links at the ready as well if you really want them. That is not a denial that there are many. Do they make up close to the majority? I do not get the obtuseness on this. |
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Post by mugwump v1 on May 6, 2017 0:54:54 GMT
You make no case for the visual design of that game being geared mostly towards men though Erikson. None! Or have I missed it? Case? Do you deny that the majority of video game players are male, and that a majority of males are attracted to women? It is common sense, and can be seen throughout all of advertising and marketing. Do I need to find a bunch of quotes from the film staff to prove that this here was design to look sexually appealing- I repeat, it is not a criticism, just an acknowledgment of the way the world works. Look, you said that Ciri's visual design was a 'clear case of crafting a character's look to please a predominantly heterosexual male audience', without offering up anything in support of that claim beyond saying that men and women occasionally enjoy role-playing hot looking men and women who hang out with hot looking men and women! |
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Post by aglomeracja on May 6, 2017 0:57:55 GMT
Mate, she dressed like that when she was in a lesbian relationship. She wanted to be attractive to her female partner and noticed by everyone else as well. From my point of view there is absolutely no reason to claim that it's supposed to be appealing to straight male audience only because why wouldn't homosexual women find her attractive as well? ...and why wouldn't straight women like roleplaying as her? She's not a stay-at-home mum cooking dinner for her husband, she's a powerful character who kicks ass in a very hostile world. If there's anyone who doesn't like this type of protagonists, it's probably conservative men. No one is arguing against any of these points...really, I think the culture wars have warped a lot of people's brains and made them paranoid. ...or you're not doing the best job in getting your point across? " How does saying women want to look sexy negate that the design is geared mostly towards men, who are the majority player base." The bolded part contradicts the points I've made, so I guess you are arguing against them. And no, the fact that most of players are male doesn't automatically mean that anything about Ciri was designed specifically to please male audience. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2017 1:00:09 GMT
Sorry, my fault. I didn't know you were talking about the right one - but what's wrong with stockings? I see stockings everywhere: in Skyrim, in Fallout. I'm not familiar with modding BW games but if possible then they certainly will find a way into Andromda, too. Nothing is wrong with them...I just don't personally like the look. Just my personal aesthetic, nothing more. I just want an option to be able to dress my female character more like the avatar on the left, than the avatar on the right, if the female CC is available for Cyberpunk. I really did not like it when almost every outfit stripped pants off a female character in another game I've played ( not Witcher) replacing it with stockings, while looking really cool on a male (with pants). And that some male characters in the game are attractive both physically and as characters (as well as females). They don't even have to be romanceable, just be there and play interesting roles as both friends and foes (in Cyberpunk). I want cool male characters in the games. I want cool female characters in the games. I want ability to have decent clothes for my character, male or female, if I feel like it. |
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Post by erikson on May 6, 2017 1:03:03 GMT
No one is arguing against any of these points...really, I think the culture wars have warped a lot of people's brains and made them paranoid. ...or you're not doing the best job in getting your point across? " How does saying women want to look sexy negate that the design is geared mostly towards men, who are the majority player base." The bolded part contradicts the points I've made, so I guess you are arguing against them. And no, the fact that most of players are male doesn't automatically mean that anything about Ciri was designed specifically to please male audience. No, it is that people keep wanting to read inbetween the lines of what I am saying. Nothing I said denied that homosexual women would find Criri attractive, or that straight women would want to play as her. I never acknowledged it because it is not in dispute. The bottom about stay at home moms as a complete non-sequitor because it has nothing to do with anything I have been saying. You're the one pouring politics into this discussion, not I. Alll I said is that she was designed to be sexy to a majority of their player base which happens to be hetero males. The fact that many people take any statement that they even surmise as criticism of this game as if it is questioning their parentage or an affront on their mother, is why a lot of people here dislike the game's fanbase (a fanbase of which I inlcude myself as a member). |
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