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Post by Ahriman on Apr 20, 2017 7:28:42 GMT
It's magic. Archon can't do anything with Remnants, but Sam hacks them with ease, so Archon hacks what hacks Remnants instead. Sure thing, makes sense. So mathematics is magic somehow? What mathematics has to do with this thread?
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 20, 2017 13:37:47 GMT
So mathematics is magic somehow? What mathematics has to do with this thread? [lbr]how do you think SAM can interact with remteck? Hell how do think computers work? SAM job is analysis. That mean he is a high grade calculator. Like any computer he is prosses by an arrangement of numeric code. Every computer is like that...including remtech. The only reason any person can't use remtech is that we don't know the right numeric code to translate. SAM does not ether but he can easily Brute Force his way in via high speed poccessing of trail and error of making code and plugging it in. Aka hygh speed math. Once he understand the numeric code of remtech, he can arrange any form of translation he wants. Thus what you call SAM magically interacting with remtech is just math. The Archon is doing the same with SAM but he is taking advantage of SAM's limits. He bear has any control of SAM node on the ark.And SAM node is our safe guard ageinst SAM if he goes out of control. So we can easily control him there or even shut him down like the fire fighters almost did. SAM literally can't fight back there. So the Archon can take his time to not only hack h but take him over.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 20, 2017 13:49:33 GMT
Ah, I see, you just use "math" as synonym to "smart stuff". Okay, then.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 20, 2017 14:18:03 GMT
Ah, I see, you just use "math" as synonym to "smart stuff". Okay, then. yes and no. Computer work based on numeric code. SAM us high speed trial and error to learn what the code the remnant use. And Sam is vastly limited at his node as a safe guard. Anyone who can get there can effect or hack SAM with very little SAM can do to stop them.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 20, 2017 14:21:28 GMT
Ah, I see, you just use "math" as synonym to "smart stuff". Okay, then. Computer work based on numeric code. Yeah, I know a little about it, since I have Computer Science degree. Such simplification just triggered me.
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 20, 2017 14:32:23 GMT
I understand that BW says this is how SAM works, but then BW violated their own canon bc otherwise HOW DOES SAM KNOW THAT THE ARCHON PLANTED A DEVICE INSIDE RYDER's BODY? Ryder knows he/she got a shot, but a device? No, Ryder could not possibly know that on his/her own. Hence SAM tells Ryder their is a device inside his/her bloodstream, and he attempts to neutralize it. Also, "this is how SAM works" still doesn't explain how the archon maintains control of SAM when SAM is still on the Hyperion and the archon is inside the vault on Meridian. The archon just PLOT DEVICES a way to control SAM through the Ryder sibling? When did the archon become such a master of AI hacking when their species destroys AI instead of studying it? How would the archon know the first thing about hacking into AI? Also, I don't see this as arguing with you so much as I see it arguing with BW. I've never doubted the fantasy logic of BW games so much before, usually I can suspend my disbelief, but not in this case. I just literally told you. It's with the implant in Ryder's body. The thing that allows sam to enhance. Modify, turn off, and analyze ryder's body and links SAM to Ryder's sense is the implant. ONE WOULD BE SAFE ASSUME IT CAN BE USED TO SENSE WHAT'S GOING ON IN RYDER's BODY. Hell, it literally shows that it do3s.time and time agein. But then that means that SAM's senses are not limited to Ryder's because SAM can see what is going on inside Ryder's body via the implant. If that's the case, I still question how the archon could have learned so much about SAM. SAM knew the archon planted that device in Ryder. I assume SAM neutralized it, after stopping Ryder's heart. The archon then learned everything about SAM through Ryder's memory flashes? How does one even "see" another person's memory flashes?
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 20, 2017 15:22:52 GMT
I just literally told you. It's with the implant in Ryder's body. The thing that allows sam to enhance. Modify, turn off, and analyze ryder's body and links SAM to Ryder's sense is the implant. ONE WOULD BE SAFE ASSUME IT CAN BE USED TO SENSE WHAT'S GOING ON IN RYDER's BODY. Hell, it literally shows that it do3s.time and time agein. But then that means that SAM's senses are not limited to Ryder's because SAM can see what is going on inside Ryder's body via the implant. If that's the case, I still question how the archon could have learned so much about SAM. SAM knew the archon planted that device in Ryder. I assume SAM neutralized it, after stopping Ryder's heart. The archon then learned everything about SAM through Ryder's memory flashes? How does one even "see" another person's memory flashes? just because you know it's there does not mean you can stop it from taking info. It's not that hard to see that Ryder is connected to SAM with a scanner which the Archon used before putting in the nanomachines. It takes time for SAM to nutralize them being 5hat his first task was to get Ryder out of the trap. Ryder even tells him taking out the nanomachines are a secondary priority. That we'll time to analyze Ryder's and SAM's connection.
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Post by Petroshenko on Apr 21, 2017 3:35:51 GMT
Meh, still seems like a plot hole. He coulda just taken the entire Nexus just as easily, it would seem. Or why bother with the Hyperion? Do his thing, taunt Ryder, sever the connection and take off with the twin. Because SAM is on Hyperion. Just kidnapping Sara is pointless because Initiative could shut down SAM if he only took her. So he'a taking both. And it's obviously easier to undock small Hyperion and take it than try to steal entire Nexus It's not perfectly handled but it's way better through-out than TIM taking over the Citadel at the end of ME3
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 21, 2017 3:59:42 GMT
I just literally told you. It's with the implant in Ryder's body. The thing that allows sam to enhance. Modify, turn off, and analyze ryder's body and links SAM to Ryder's sense is the implant. ONE WOULD BE SAFE ASSUME IT CAN BE USED TO SENSE WHAT'S GOING ON IN RYDER's BODY. Hell, it literally shows that it do3s.time and time agein. But then that means that SAM's senses are not limited to Ryder's because SAM can see what is going on inside Ryder's body via the implant. If that's the case, I still question how the archon could have learned so much about SAM. SAM knew the archon planted that device in Ryder. I assume SAM neutralized it, after stopping Ryder's heart. The archon then learned everything about SAM through Ryder's memory flashes? How does one even "see" another person's memory flashes? SAM told Ryder that it was detecting "biological tracking" technology in his/her bloodstream. Ryder then immediately told SAM that this was a secondary concern, since the squad was trapped. SAM never claimed to have understood everything the Archon just did, nor did it mention having "neutralized" any and all effects. Presumably the biotech tracking was neutralized; but no one seemed to catch the more important part of what the Archon had done. Since he was using entirely alien tech to do this, and wanted his actions to be unnoticed, it's not too surprising that it went undetected. As to how he managed to hijack Ryder's memories, who can say? We don't know how kett tech works. It did work, so the how of it is of secondary importance. There wasn't really a suitable time or place in which to further explore the details, given the narrow timeframe and the urgency of the situation. Ryder sees flashes of Alec's memories, and we've seen stranger in the OT. The Archon either mined Ryder's mind, or mined SAM's memories. The latter seems more likely, as SAM is software; but this is Mass Effect. Either is possible. Maybe we'll get to know more about kett-tech in the future.
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 21, 2017 4:35:49 GMT
Meh, still seems like a plot hole. He coulda just taken the entire Nexus just as easily, it would seem. Or why bother with the Hyperion? Do his thing, taunt Ryder, sever the connection and take off with the twin. Because SAM is on Hyperion. Just kidnapping Sara is pointless because Initiative could shut down SAM if he only took her. So he'a taking both. And it's obviously easier to undock small Hyperion and take it than try to steal entire Nexus It's not perfectly handled but it's way better through-out than TIM taking over the Citadel at the end of ME3 But then he leaves the Hyperion, with the sib. So clearly he didn't need all of SAM.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 21, 2017 5:09:01 GMT
Because SAM is on Hyperion. Just kidnapping Sara is pointless because Initiative could shut down SAM if he only took her. So he'a taking both. And it's obviously easier to undock small Hyperion and take it than try to steal entire Nexus It's not perfectly handled but it's way better through-out than TIM taking over the Citadel at the end of ME3 But then he leaves the Hyperion, with the sib. So clearly he didn't need all of SAM. He can't move SAM. Added he let the Hyperion crash as a distraction.
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 21, 2017 6:37:25 GMT
I still say the game is inconsistent with SAM'S abilities. When Ryder first encountered the archon on the way to Aya, archon takes control of navigation. SAM tells Ryder "*I* have almost regained control of the ship." On the first visit to Aya, without Ryder's scanner, SAM detects the energy levels in the angara, and analyzes the plants. Ryder cannot even use the scanner, bc the angara threaten Ryder with guns if he/she tries to use it.
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Post by zeypher on Apr 21, 2017 7:14:32 GMT
SAM is a glorified plot device. It serves no bloody purpose other than to drown us in his terrible monotone voice.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 22, 2017 12:57:26 GMT
SAM is a glorified plot device. It serves no bloody purpose other than to drown us in his terrible monotone voice. Sam did everything edi did. If no one complain when edi hacked every thing why complain when sam does.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 22, 2017 13:02:03 GMT
I still say the game is inconsistent with SAM'S abilities. When Ryder first encountered the archon on the way to Aya, archon takes control of navigation. SAM tells Ryder "*I* have almost regained control of the ship." On the first visit to Aya, without Ryder's scanner, SAM detects the energy levels in the angara, and analyzes the plants. Ryder cannot even use the scanner, bc the angara threaten Ryder with guns if he/she tries to use it. that’s not outside sam's abilities. Ryder is a relay for sam and there body is full of sensors for SAM due to the implant. If Ryder is proximity to any tech given time SAM can scan it and hack it if this tech has a relay of some kind.
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 22, 2017 13:09:36 GMT
Because everybody and everything is as stupid or smart as the plot demands.
Just like how in every movie, video game, book, whatever ever made the villain explains his plans in details to the hero, then leaves him/her alone to free himself and stop him. What real life villain would do this? Just kill 'em, done.
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Post by zeypher on Apr 22, 2017 13:29:36 GMT
SAM is a glorified plot device. It serves no bloody purpose other than to drown us in his terrible monotone voice. Sam did everything edi did. If no one complain when edi hacked every thing why complain when sam does. EDI was designed with hacking in mind and she unlike SAM tended to speak when it was appropriate. SAM never shuts up and has no personality to boot.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 22, 2017 15:34:18 GMT
Sam did everything edi did. If no one complain when edi hacked every thing why complain when sam does. EDI was designed with hacking in mind and she unlike SAM tended to speak when it was appropriate. SAM never shuts up and has no personality to boot. SAM has a personality it just not as developed as EDI's who also does not have much of a personality when you meet her in ME2 at the same degree as SAM. She had develo over time and we did not really see it till ME3. ALSO, EDI was made to do more then one job before she was unshakled. SAM's main job is to assist in analysta,helps with translation of data and enhance his path finder. The other sam's just assist the path finder with analyst. Basiclly, they do the same job.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2017 15:49:16 GMT
I still simply think it's BW bullshit bc SAM can detect the archon's device or whatever in Ryder's bloodstream. Ryder obviously can't notice the device, but SAM does, so SAM's detection is not limited to Ryder's senses. Also, why can't SAM shut off his connection to the Ryder sibling to prevent the Archon from using the sibling? Or he could kill the sibling (just saying good of the universe and all). How did the Archon gain such intimate knowledge of SAM? Did he take advantage of the other SAM on the salarian ark? Wouldn't we have known he tampered with it? Also, how is the archon able to use the remnant tech so well without any practice? He can use it better than Ryder can despite his own ignorance--proven by his own inabilty to get it working and collecting the equivalent of remtech junk on his shop. Honestly, I really hated the last part of the main quest bc BW doesn't do a good enough job making the archon's scheme all that plausible. That and the archon was boring as shit, evil for evil's sake, predictable snooze fest. The Archon "shackled" SAM. For all its personality, SAM is an AI; and shackled AIs have no choice but to obey directives. Of course SAM has sensors. It has ridiculously good perception through Ryder's hardsuit and omnitool, and likely some camera access in SAM node. It has no defenses, though. Most people are freaked out by SAM. They reticently accept that the Pathfinders use SAM, but aren't particularly comfortable with it. There's no way they'd allow SAM access to hardware with which it could battle "intruders", fearing it would possibly turn them against AI personnel. Once Hyperion falls under kett control, SAM is relatively defenseless against the Archon's shackling. We have no idea just how intelligent Archon is, but he seems likely much smarter than Ryder. He's old, possibly very old, and thus pretty experienced. He has the genetic traits of who-knows-how-many species. His having the smarts to puzzle out Remnant tech isn't that shocking, to me. He's been studying this stuff for 80+ years. He has a grasp of how it works, but can't access it at all until seizing SAM. More importantly, we learn after the fact that he wasn't even controlling the tech during the fight. It just seemed that way to Ryder. He was completely overwhelmed by the connection to Meridian. His snooping awoke the damaged Architect and its bots, but he wasn't controlling them. I can't help him on the "being more interesting" front, since that's entirely subjective. The other issues, though, actually make sense once all provided data is considered. I think the question is, HOW did the Archon shackle SAM, if the kett never made a study of AI (let alone human-made AI)? SAM was designed to integrate with and even manipulate human physiology, turning Ryder into a super-soldier, a powerful biotic, an expert sniper, etc, at a command.. SAM can accelerate healing and even treat diseases and help filter out toxins. But detect a foreign body (and a tracking device, at that!) embedded in Ryder is un-possible?
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 22, 2017 16:35:53 GMT
The Archon "shackled" SAM. For all its personality, SAM is an AI; and shackled AIs have no choice but to obey directives. Of course SAM has sensors. It has ridiculously good perception through Ryder's hardsuit and omnitool, and likely some camera access in SAM node. It has no defenses, though. Most people are freaked out by SAM. They reticently accept that the Pathfinders use SAM, but aren't particularly comfortable with it. There's no way they'd allow SAM access to hardware with which it could battle "intruders", fearing it would possibly turn them against AI personnel. Once Hyperion falls under kett control, SAM is relatively defenseless against the Archon's shackling. We have no idea just how intelligent Archon is, but he seems likely much smarter than Ryder. He's old, possibly very old, and thus pretty experienced. He has the genetic traits of who-knows-how-many species. His having the smarts to puzzle out Remnant tech isn't that shocking, to me. He's been studying this stuff for 80+ years. He has a grasp of how it works, but can't access it at all until seizing SAM. More importantly, we learn after the fact that he wasn't even controlling the tech during the fight. It just seemed that way to Ryder. He was completely overwhelmed by the connection to Meridian. His snooping awoke the damaged Architect and its bots, but he wasn't controlling them. I can't help him on the "being more interesting" front, since that's entirely subjective. The other issues, though, actually make sense once all provided data is considered. I think the question is, HOW did the Archon shackle SAM, if the kett never made a study of AI (let alone human-made AI)? SAM was designed to integrate with and even manipulate human physiology, turning Shepard into a super-soldier, a powerful biotic, an expert sniper, etc, at a command.. SAM can accelerate healing and even treat diseases and help filter out toxins. But detect a foreign body (and a tracking device, at that!) embedded in Ryder is un-possible? Yes! And how did the archon *see* and interpret human flashes of memory (which if you slow down you can actually see that it's just Alec's memories of his family)? How did the archon, from those brief memory flashes, have all the information required to shackle SAM (kett don't study AI they destroy it, so how does archon know how to work SAM when he's never studied AI before)? How did archon know how to successfully use sibling Ryder's implant when the only knowledge archon has is either the memory flashes (which is just Alec's memories of family) OR the brief insight gained from planting the device in Ryder? (I don't accept that SAM just couldn't disable the device fast enough as an explanation, bc then the answer is SAM couldn't bc the plot demanded it.)
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 22, 2017 16:56:04 GMT
I think the question is, HOW did the Archon shackle SAM, if the kett never made a study of AI (let alone human-made AI)? SAM was designed to integrate with and even manipulate human physiology, turning Shepard into a super-soldier, a powerful biotic, an expert sniper, etc, at a command.. SAM can accelerate healing and even treat diseases and help filter out toxins. But detect a foreign body (and a tracking device, at that!) embedded in Ryder is un-possible? Yes! And how did the archon *see* and interpret human flashes of memory (which if you slow down you can actually see that it's just Alec's memories of his family)? How did the archon, from those brief memory flashes, have all the information required to shackle SAM (kett don't study AI they destroy it, so how does archon know how to work SAM when he's never studied AI before)? How did archon know how to successfully use sibling Ryder's implant when the only knowledge archon has is either the memory flashes (which is just Alec's memories of family) OR the brief insight gained from planting the device in Ryder? (I don't accept that SAM just couldn't disable the device fast enough as an explanation, bc then the answer is SAM couldn't bc the plot demanded it.) 1. Tech wise we are the same as the kett. The advantage is the ai. It's not hard for him to figure out how to use the twins implant. 2. Also the memories are only in flashes from our perspective. That does not mean the archon only reserved flash. If he recorded it then he has all the time to go over it in detail.He no know about the twin because it stated about them in the memories. 3. Same thing with Sam and sam's qec connection was tracted.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 22, 2017 17:04:20 GMT
Yes! And how did the archon *see* and interpret human flashes of memory (which if you slow down you can actually see that it's just Alec's memories of his family)? How did the archon, from those brief memory flashes, have all the information required to shackle SAM (kett don't study AI they destroy it, so how does archon know how to work SAM when he's never studied AI before)? How did archon know how to successfully use sibling Ryder's implant when the only knowledge archon has is either the memory flashes (which is just Alec's memories of family) OR the brief insight gained from planting the device in Ryder? (I don't accept that SAM just couldn't disable the device fast enough as an explanation, bc then the answer is SAM couldn't bc the plot demanded it.) 1. Tech wise we are the same as the kett. The advantage is the ai. It's not hard for him to figure out how to use the twins implant. 2. Also the memories are only in flashes from our perspective. That does not mean the archon only reserved flash. If he recorded it then he has all the time to go over it in detail.He no know about the twin because it stated about them in the memories. 3. Same thing with Sam and sam's qec connection was tracted. 1) WHy isn't it hard? Again, the kett don't utilize AI 2) Remember how hard it was for Shepard to decipher the Prothean beacon without a Cipher? This seems to be quite similar in nature. 3) QEC connections can't be tracked. That's a big part of their appeal: they are completely secure.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 22, 2017 20:23:54 GMT
1. Tech wise we are the same as the kett. The advantage is the ai. It's not hard for him to figure out how to use the twins implant. 2. Also the memories are only in flashes from our perspective. That does not mean the archon only reserved flash. If he recorded it then he has all the time to go over it in detail.He no know about the twin because it stated about them in the memories. 3. Same thing with Sam and sam's qec connection was tracted. 1) WHy isn't it hard? Again, the kett don't utilize AI 2) Remember how hard it was for Shepard to decipher the Prothean beacon without a Cipher? This seems to be quite similar in nature. 3) QEC connections can't be tracked. That's a big part of their appeal: they are completely secure. 1. We don't no that. We do see they use Vi's on archon's ship. 2.you need to replay me3.that was a biological issue. Not a technical one.Also, what was in the vision was not a memory. It is just how the Prothean communicate. 3. The reapers do it all the time in me3. Even TIM was paranoid that some how something could listen in on the conversations back in me2.
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Post by smellycatbutts on Apr 23, 2017 3:31:37 GMT
1) WHy isn't it hard? Again, the kett don't utilize AI 2) Remember how hard it was for Shepard to decipher the Prothean beacon without a Cipher? This seems to be quite similar in nature. 3) QEC connections can't be tracked. That's a big part of their appeal: they are completely secure. 1. We don't no that. We do see they use Vi's on archon's ship. 2.you need to replay me3.that was a biological issue. Not a technical one.Also, what was in the vision was not a memory. It is just how the Prothean communicate. 3. The reapers do it all the time in me3. Even TIM was paranoid that some how something could listen in on the conversations back in me2. On point 1, we DO know that. The game tells us this. Commander Do Xeel gives you this intel.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 23, 2017 14:24:26 GMT
1. We don't no that. We do see they use Vi's on archon's ship. 2.you need to replay me3.that was a biological issue. Not a technical one.Also, what was in the vision was not a memory. It is just how the Prothean communicate. 3. The reapers do it all the time in me3. Even TIM was paranoid that some how something could listen in on the conversations back in me2. On point 1, we DO know that. The game tells us this. Commander Do Xeel gives you this intel. she's talking about the kett on that planet. Not the kett in general.
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