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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Jul 10, 2021 0:36:17 GMT
I just had someone tell me on the mass effect sub reddit that there is no fundamental difference between organic and synthetic life. That the Quarian and Geth conflict was just political. And that a VI and AI are exactly the same.
I know technically this isn't something in game this was just a player. But their entire argument just makes no sense for any of it.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 10, 2021 6:24:24 GMT
ah yes, facing the music. It was more like facing the clowns in the circus calling themselves Alliance. If there was to be any music, my Shepard would have a ghettoblaster on his/her shoulder jamming to some Ted Nugent when facing the committee of clowns and the one standing near him/her. As the song goes: "send in the clowns!" 😈
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 13:29:29 GMT
After several ME3 missions, Shepard magically appears inside the War Room, but this prevents some of the events on board the ship from making any sense. For example, on Palaven, Liara leaves to investigate the problems on the ship involving EDI which are already happening while Shepard is on the planet. Those problems, according to Traynor, are making the comm systems go haywire, yet Shepard is encouraged to answer a comm from Hackett immediately while still in the War Room. Shepard can also have a conversation with Primarch Victus before being told by Joker there is a problem when exiting the War Room. Furthermore (and themikefest should like this one since it makes Liara seem like a complete idiot) - If Shepard stops in at Liara's room before going to the AI Core, Liara just asks "What's happening?" even though she expressly left the planet some time earlier in order to investigate the problems occurring on the ship.
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Post by Phantom on Jul 12, 2021 16:50:31 GMT
I just had someone tell me on the mass effect sub reddit that there is no fundamental difference between organic and synthetic life. That the Quarian and Geth conflict was just political. And that a VI and AI are exactly the same. I know technically this isn't something in game this was just a player. But their entire argument just makes no sense for any of it. It is a what the fuck on their part and not on yours, gothpunk. Organic and Synthetic life are fundamentally different in their respective natures and within the context of Mass Effect, VI and AI are different. In short, either they are stupid or doesn't truly understand Mass Effect and yes you throw them into Cerberus Testing Labs as warm bodies. Lets face it, Cerberus is known for playing fast and loose with morals when doing science.
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Jul 13, 2021 14:04:45 GMT
I just had someone tell me on the mass effect sub reddit that there is no fundamental difference between organic and synthetic life. That the Quarian and Geth conflict was just political. And that a VI and AI are exactly the same. Possibly the most idiotic argument a person could make trying to equate AI and VI. Nor do I understand how sentient beings in one form are superior to sentient beings in another form. There's that race that downloaded themselves and became the "Virtual Aliens". Did they stop being sentient beings because they gave up their bodies? It's definitely the OP who is seeing things from a distorted perspective, probably as a way of disassociating from the idea of allowing all thinking beings to be destroyed if they chose Destroy. They need to reevaluate and decide what is or is not acceptable and move away from the idea that they're "off the hook" because they aren't organic. Honestly, all organic life grew out of inorganic matter so the point fails. You know where I stand on RGB but it requires accepting the consequences and not pretending they don't count.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 19:26:13 GMT
Samra tells us that being an ardat-yakshi doesn't manifest itself until maturity (and, therefore, it is too late to treat it). Morinth, she says, left home and went on the run at the "age of 40." On the other hand, Liara says she's barely considered to be "more than a child" at age 106... but Morinth is "mature" and identified as being an ardat-yakshi at something before age 40. Sixty-years is a pretty big gap.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 17, 2021 4:13:42 GMT
Samra tells us that being an ardat-yakshi doesn't manifest itself until maturity (and, therefore, it is too late to treat it). Morinth, she says, left home and went on the run at the "age of 40." On the other hand, Liara says she's barely considered to be "more than a child" at age 106... but Morinth is "mature" and identified as being an ardat-yakshi at something before age 40. Sixty-years is a pretty big gap. In this case, I took "maturity" to mean sexual maturation, like puberty in humans. Some 12yo humans may technically be capable of reproduction, but they're still children.
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Post by Sonya on Aug 18, 2021 11:16:46 GMT
In this case, I took "maturity" to mean sexual maturation, like puberty in humans. Some 12yo humans may technically be capable of reproduction, but they're still children. It seems so. From WIKI "When she first melds minds with Shepard, Liara is 106, quite young for an asari. By the time she is 42, Falere’s Ardat-Yakshi condition had already come to light indicating she had attempted to meld at least once. Morinth’s condition was also discovered by the time she was in her 40s". In this case Liara is a virgin, just did not have a chance (desire) to meld. In other words: Liara/Morinth/Falere - children, but from sexual maturation pov (another life stages involving the body itself) they are already from thr category "mature". Liara, being pure-blood, might have been Ardat-Yakshi and discover it only during messing with Shepard's mind in ME1.
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Post by AnDromedary on Aug 18, 2021 16:20:19 GMT
Maybe 2 further points on this: 1. Liara's comment makes sense to me, especially because when she says it, they are talking about her scientific research about the protheans and her precise words are "But among the asari, I am barely considered more than a child." Now, if we compare that to someone on earth, saying this in a similar context, there is a lot of wiggle room there. In science today even a 25 year old grad student or freshly baked PhD might be considered "barely more than a child" in the scientific community. So I don't have a problem with that. 2. What does not make sense to me is that Samara tells us that the AY syndrome is genetic. With the levels of genetic engineering that apparently even humans use on a regular basis, there should be no way, that they cannot detect an AY, even before birth. A regular DNA test for the relevant markers should be enough. With the level of gene therapy, we see and can read about in the codex, they should also be able to devise a therapy easily. But in any case, this whole idea that they need to wait until someone actually shows the symptoms in order to detect a genetic disorder in a civilization on that medical and technological level is a bit ridiculous.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 18, 2021 17:26:04 GMT
Maybe 2 further points on this: 1. Liara's comment makes sense to me, especially when she says it, they are talking about her scientific research about the protheans and her precise words are "But among the asari, I am barely considered more than a child." Now, if we compare that to someone on earth, saying this in a similar context, there is a lot of wiggle room there. In science today even a 25 year old grad student or freshly baked PhD might be considered "barely more than a child". SO I don't have a problem with that. 2. What does not make sense to me is that Samara tells us that the AY syndrome is genetic. With the levels of genetic engineering that apparently even humans use on a regular basis, there should be no way, that they cannot detect an AY, even before birth. A regular DNA test for the relevant markers should be enough. With the level of gene therapy, we see and can read about masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Codex/Humanity_and_the_Systems_Alliance#Genetic_Engineering, they should also be able to devise a therapy easily. But in any case, this whole idea that they need to wait until someone actually shows the symptoms in order to detect a genetic disorder in a civilization on that technical level is a bit ridiculous. Yep. I've complained before about the Ardat-Yakshi storyline just not making sense. It's silly to think that neither the Asari nor Salarians have figured out how to screen for this, let alone correct it via gene therapy. The writer applied modern scientific limitations to societies who clearly aren't bound by them. Someone should've stepped in and said, "Cool idea, but I don't think it works for ME because..."
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Post by Sonya on Aug 18, 2021 18:50:58 GMT
The writer applied modern scientific limitations to societies who clearly aren't bound by them. Why is it so silly? MEU is not perfect: people, races, individuals, rules, norms, customs, stupidity, bribes, secrets, wars - the list is endless. Jeff has Vrolik syndrome: meds help him, but he still suffers, difficult to walk not to mention of other things he would like to do. Garrus mother died because of Corpalis Syndrome which can't be cured, but the salarians at least try to find some treatment. The progress is clear as day, but not everything can be fixed, even with advanced technologies. The whole galaxy is trying to adapt, including some infamous virus or very old disease, like AY, old as the asari race (would like to ask Javik about it with their experiments). Difficult to call it "silly", but such thought as "advanced MEU can't think of some test for future AY" comes to mind, only with the following "Nobody's perfect".
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 18, 2021 20:44:57 GMT
The writer applied modern scientific limitations to societies who clearly aren't bound by them. Why is it so silly? MEU is not perfect: people, races, individuals, rules, norms, customs, stupidity, bribes, secrets, wars - the list is endless. Jeff has Vrolik syndrome: meds help him, but he still suffers, difficult to walk not to mention of other things he would like to do. Garrus mother died because of Corpalis Syndrome which can't be cured, but the salarians at least try to find some treatment. The progress is clear as day, but not everything can be fixed, even with advanced technologies. The whole galaxy is trying to adapt, including some infamous virus or very old disease, like AY, old as the asari race (would like to ask Javik about it with their experiments). Difficult to call it "silly", but such thought as "advanced MEU can't think of some test for future AY" comes to mind, only with the following "Nobody's perfect". It's silly because the Asari and Salarians have jointly ruled Council Space from the Citadel for 2000 years. The Salarians have enough mastery over genetics that they created the genophage, an incredibly complex undertaking. I'm supposed to think it's believable that they can't identify the alleles involved in creating ardat-yakshi? Identifying them makes correcting them easy. It's silly. With the genetics technologies in ME, curing any genetic illness is simply a matter of time and resources. Vrolik Syndrome? It can feasibly exist because humans are newcomers and have far bigger fish to fry before getting to outlier conditions. Asari, Salarians, Turians and Volus should long since have developed screening and corrective treatments for any common or serious genetic diseases. They've had centuries to do so.
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Post by Sonya on Aug 19, 2021 0:38:21 GMT
It's silly because the Asari and Salarians have jointly ruled Council Space from the Citadel for 2000 years. The Salarians have enough mastery over genetics that they created the genophage, an incredibly complex undertaking. I'm supposed to think it's believable that they can't identify the alleles involved in creating ardat-yakshi? Identifying them makes correcting them easy. It's silly. With the genetics technologies in ME, curing any genetic illness is simply a matter of time and resources. Vrolik Syndrome? It can feasibly exist because humans are newcomers and have far bigger fish to fry before getting to outlier conditions. Asari, Salarians, Turians and Volus should long since have developed screening and corrective treatments for any common or serious genetic diseases. They've had centuries to do so. Was more of a rhetorical question included in additional opinion on the topic as yours was clear enough. But thank you for detailed clarification, Element Zero.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2021 13:37:15 GMT
Perhaps the AY are the result of Prothean experimentation on the Asari?
Too bad Javik doesn't know or care lol.
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N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 20, 2021 19:57:59 GMT
Perhaps the AY are the result of Prothean experimentation on the Asari? Too bad Javik doesn't know or care lol. That actually makes sense. Genetically-created assassins. Never happens when asari mate with other races, only with other asari. That sounds like a pretty solid idea. Javik wouldn't know anyway. He was a warrior, whose job was to send Protheans into battle. How much happens in our own nations that we don't know about? Tons and tons and tons of things. Even generals wouldn't know this stuff. He was clueless about the intricacies beyond knowledge that the Protheans had directed their evolution and that the Protheans thought they were the ones who would end the Reaper threat. They hadn't expected that asari would be too full of themselves. They hadn't thought to use the AY agents the indoctrinated. They were what have made the asari a greater empire. Too bad ego, fear and arrogance prevented that from happening.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 20, 2021 20:01:38 GMT
Perhaps the AY are the result of Prothean experimentation on the Asari? Too bad Javik doesn't know or care lol. That actually makes sense. Genetically-created assassins. Never happens when asari mate with other races, only with other asari. That sounds like a pretty solid idea. Javik wouldn't know anyway. He was a warrior, whose job was to send Protheans into battle. How much happens in our own nations that we don't know about? Tons and tons and tons of things. Even generals wouldn't know this stuff. He was clueless about the intricacies beyond knowledge that the Protheans had directed their evolution and that the Protheans thought they were the ones who would end the Reaper threat. They hadn't expected that asari would be too full of themselves. They hadn't thought to use the AY agents the indoctrinated. They were what have made the asari a greater empire. Too bad ego, fear and arrogance prevented that from happening. It's too bad the protheans didn't pass the cipher to the asari leading to the reapers possibly being dealt with long before Shepard showed up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2021 2:36:27 GMT
That actually makes sense. Genetically-created assassins. Never happens when asari mate with other races, only with other asari. That sounds like a pretty solid idea. Javik wouldn't know anyway. He was a warrior, whose job was to send Protheans into battle. How much happens in our own nations that we don't know about? Tons and tons and tons of things. Even generals wouldn't know this stuff. He was clueless about the intricacies beyond knowledge that the Protheans had directed their evolution and that the Protheans thought they were the ones who would end the Reaper threat. They hadn't expected that asari would be too full of themselves. They hadn't thought to use the AY agents the indoctrinated. They were what have made the asari a greater empire. Too bad ego, fear and arrogance prevented that from happening. It's too bad the protheans didn't pass the cipher to the asari leading to the reapers possibly being dealt with long before Shepard showed up. Somehow I have never thought of this. This is called a plothole. Holy moly! A big one.
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Post by Sonya on Aug 21, 2021 8:13:44 GMT
Perhaps the AY are the result of Prothean experimentation on the Asari? Too bad Javik doesn't know or care Would make sense. Though I think Javik did not know even if that took place back there. Javik has no problems with telling his mind, just tells and has zero interest what others might think. If they do not like something he says, it's like "whatever" for him. Javik is surprised that the asari finally learnt how to write when Liara started "I've publish this and that". During the AY mission Javik just says his people would not let such monsters live, but the asari even build that colony. Something new he finds out and expresses his own opinion. In this case Javik in innocent, imo. But the rest of his people? It is something to consider.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 2 Likes: 1
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Post by punkrammy on Aug 28, 2021 2:11:39 GMT
The writer applied modern scientific limitations to societies who clearly aren't bound by them. Why is it so silly? MEU is not perfect: people, races, individuals, rules, norms, customs, stupidity, bribes, secrets, wars - the list is endless. Jeff has Vrolik syndrome: meds help him, but he still suffers, difficult to walk not to mention of other things he would like to do. Garrus mother died because of Corpalis Syndrome which can't be cured, but the salarians at least try to find some treatment. The progress is clear as day, but not everything can be fixed, even with advanced technologies. The whole galaxy is trying to adapt, including some infamous virus or very old disease, like AY, old as the asari race (would like to ask Javik about it with their experiments). Difficult to call it "silly", but such thought as "advanced MEU can't think of some test for future AY" comes to mind, only with the following "Nobody's perfect". Genetic disorders are often the result of multiple gene mutations rather than a single specific gene. It's possible that the sample sizes for these rare disorders haven't been big enough to isolate the various markers that combine to cause the disorder.
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Post by Sonya on Aug 28, 2021 8:55:58 GMT
Genetic disorders are often the result of multiple gene mutations rather than a single specific gene. It's possible that the sample sizes for these rare disorders haven't been big enough to isolate the various markers that combine to cause the disorder. Suspect one of reasonable explanations why AY can't be identified even with advanced technologies "without magic"@ Samara
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 28, 2021 21:17:00 GMT
Why is it so silly? MEU is not perfect: people, races, individuals, rules, norms, customs, stupidity, bribes, secrets, wars - the list is endless. Jeff has Vrolik syndrome: meds help him, but he still suffers, difficult to walk not to mention of other things he would like to do. Garrus mother died because of Corpalis Syndrome which can't be cured, but the salarians at least try to find some treatment. The progress is clear as day, but not everything can be fixed, even with advanced technologies. The whole galaxy is trying to adapt, including some infamous virus or very old disease, like AY, old as the asari race (would like to ask Javik about it with their experiments). Difficult to call it "silly", but such thought as "advanced MEU can't think of some test for future AY" comes to mind, only with the following "Nobody's perfect". Genetic disorders are often the result of multiple gene mutations rather than a single specific gene. It's possible that the sample sizes for these rare disorders haven't been big enough to isolate the various markers that combine to cause the disorder. It doesn't seem to fit Ardat-Yakshi, though. The Asari have had them throughout their history, including the 2000+ years of cooperation with Salarians. They have enough AY at any given time to justify monastic complexes. The timeline alone makes "insufficient sample size" hard to believe. Throw in the number of afflicted implied by monasteries, and it just doesn't work for me. I wish it did! 🙂 As much as I love this series, it's not written by a team of scientific minds, military minds, etc... There aren't a lot of subject matter experts on hand, since it's space fantasy rather than "harder" SciFi. As the series progressed, misunderstandings, inconsistencies and contradictions multiplied. A big part of enjoying it, for me, is knowing which parts I can rationalize, which parts to ignore, and so on. Ardat-Yakshi I simply try to not spare too much thought.
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Exhausted Disaster
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 2 Likes: 1
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Exhausted Disaster
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Post by punkrammy on Aug 28, 2021 22:15:39 GMT
Genetic disorders are often the result of multiple gene mutations rather than a single specific gene. It's possible that the sample sizes for these rare disorders haven't been big enough to isolate the various markers that combine to cause the disorder. It doesn't seem to fit Ardat-Yakshi, though. The Asari have had them throughout their history, including the 2000+ years of cooperation with Salarians. They have enough AY at any given time to justify monastic complexes. The timeline alone makes "insufficient sample size" hard to believe. Throw in the number of afflicted implied by monasteries, and it just doesn't work for me. I wish it did! 🙂 As much as I love this series, it's not written by a team of scientific minds, military minds, etc... There aren't a lot of subject matter experts on hand, since it's space fantasy rather than "harder" SciFi. As the series progressed, misunderstandings, inconsistencies and contradictions multiplied. A big part of enjoying it, for me, is knowing which parts I can rationalize, which parts to ignore, and so on. Ardat-Yakshi I simply try to not spare too much thought. I thought it was just the one monastery that we see in ME3. Also without knowing the rate of incidence it'd be hard to tell. A real world example is that recently a lab announced they may have isolated 1 of the genetic markers for hypermobile Ehlers Danlos syndrome out of who knows how many markers. They have the largest registry of hEDs patients in the world over a 100,000 and with that sample size they may have isolated 1 marker. The AY seem like there are only a few hundred out of billions of asari even given the amount of time that has passed that's a miniscule sample size.
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Post by Element Zero on Aug 29, 2021 15:33:30 GMT
It doesn't seem to fit Ardat-Yakshi, though. The Asari have had them throughout their history, including the 2000+ years of cooperation with Salarians. They have enough AY at any given time to justify monastic complexes. The timeline alone makes "insufficient sample size" hard to believe. Throw in the number of afflicted implied by monasteries, and it just doesn't work for me. I wish it did! 🙂 As much as I love this series, it's not written by a team of scientific minds, military minds, etc... There aren't a lot of subject matter experts on hand, since it's space fantasy rather than "harder" SciFi. As the series progressed, misunderstandings, inconsistencies and contradictions multiplied. A big part of enjoying it, for me, is knowing which parts I can rationalize, which parts to ignore, and so on. Ardat-Yakshi I simply try to not spare too much thought. I thought it was just the one monastery that we see in ME3. Also without knowing the rate of incidence it'd be hard to tell. A real world example is that recently a lab announced they may have isolated 1 of the genetic markers for hypermobile Ehlers Danlos syndrome out of who knows how many markers. They have the largest registry of hEDs patients in the world over a 100,000 and with that sample size they may have isolated 1 marker. The AY seem like there are only a few hundred out of billions of asari even given the amount of time that has passed that's a miniscule sample size. I have hEDS, so it's an amusing coincidence that you used that example. I even participated in that study, adding my f-ed up genes to the catalogue. 😄 I certainly hope that my species has eliminated all forms of EDS 2000 years from now, especially with the Salarians helping us. Anything less would be inconceivable. The whole "how many AY are there?" is a part of the issue. Do we really believe Lessus is the only such monastery in the galaxy? Banter with Liara and the rest of the crew made it sound, IMO, that this monastery is not unique, and that it had a large population of AY. This comes, of course, right on the heels of ME2's "only three exist". It's a mess. There's also the strong desire to find a cure that often drives research. How few they are is unclear, but AY seem to occupy a lot of head space for Asari. Liara even suggests that AY might be the cause for the aversion to "pure bloods". I just don't see how a highly motivated, highly advanced species could fail to cure this with millennia to get it done.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 29, 2021 16:55:20 GMT
I just don't see how a highly motivated, highly advanced species could fail to cure this with millennia to get it done. The answer is simple. They sit around hoping time will take are of whatever problem they face. Look at ME3. They were hoping the rest of the galaxy would take care of the reapers so they can remain as top dog. Unfortunately for them, the reapers were knocking on their backdoor forcing the asari to reveal they had something that could help.
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Nov 26, 2024 11:04:36 GMT
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lordmoral
At this rate all future Bioware games will be half done and modders need to rescue it for free.
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Aug 22, 2021 14:56:32 GMT
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lordmoral
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Lord34145
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Post by lordmoral on Aug 29, 2021 22:35:55 GMT
Hello, here is my list of things I have just started to think about: -How the ME1 crew escaped the Collectors Attack and when did Wrex left the Normandy? -wWy the Alliance Command was kept at bay by Hackett during ME2 from even contacting Shepard (Shadow Broker files) and then Anderson just tells the player the Alliance can't go to investigate this problem in the Terminus yet they would have been more than willing to send teams after teams after teams against Shepard? -A/K being used as much by Cerberus as the Alliance as a bait for both the Collectors and to draw Shepard yet they don't have second thoughts about the Alliance in ME3. -what happened to the rest of the Cerberus crew in ME2, did some turned full implanted as they blamed the Council and Alliance for the deaths of their friends and family? -Why didn't Joker talked to A/K between ME2 and ME3? He seemed to have less restrictions than Shepard or heck, why didn't Dr. Chakwas decided to drag the VS to Shepard precense? Edit: -Why did Udina did a full 180 turn just when his arc was getting a redemption?
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