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Post by ergates on Apr 21, 2017 19:49:21 GMT
My initial belief was that the developers felt that squad control and customisation would be 'too complicated' for the current generation of 'Call of Duty' gamers to handle, and that the system should be as streamlined and simplified as possible in order to appeal to the broadest-possible audience. Maybe I'm just being hopelessly cynical though. It's probably something to do with multiplayer.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 21, 2017 19:50:48 GMT
Honestly I never used the squad commands in the OT for positions or to attack specific enemies, but I miss being able to use their powers in the power wheel to set up combos and target specific enemies with that.
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rheia
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Post by rheia on Apr 21, 2017 20:38:18 GMT
You know, the beauty of the OT was that if you did not want to use tactical pause, YOU DID NOT HAVE TO. Squad powers were hotkeyable, and if you did not feel like bothering with setting up combos either, there was an option for their AI to use all powers/only defense powers in combat.
Like many other things from the OT, tactical pause combat that many of us loved is gone now. Was it appeasing the multiplayer/shooter crowd? Was it dumbing down the game aka "streamlining" choice? Was it deemed too complex to code with profiles switching and power interaction? I think we will never know.
I also think Andromeda axed too many things that made Mass Effect the games we loved, tactical combat being just one of them.
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n7ltrobbiesann7
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by n7ltrobbiesann7 on Apr 21, 2017 20:50:00 GMT
I also liked having the power wheel, and simply the option to use it or not. For many encounters you didn't need it (mooks), but sometimes I wanted to for priming/dets, or simply to direct them to attack specific unit (togetherness or distraction).
I am finding though if you have MEA mates attack a specific target, they go to town on them. I like that optional level of control as I've seen Cora BC too many enemies only to die.
As for the diff between SP and MP, they had that sorted out in ME3MP. That said, with jumpjets and evade, this did change things up, especially on console with the limited inputs.
Dealing with it.
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Post by derrame on Apr 21, 2017 20:54:34 GMT
because the game is not finished
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 22, 2017 7:43:24 GMT
I wish they could to the tactical pause as well. Seriously that was something I really missed.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 22, 2017 7:58:26 GMT
Betheseda did the same thing with Fallout 4, by slowing down time in VATS instead of just being allowed to take a breath. Sometimes I need to figure out how I'm going to deal with this mob of raiders who suddenly caught the attention of a freakin' Behemoth and oh yeah... ghouls swarming in from the building above and you're doing the first Minuteman mission in Lexington. It's a mechanic I learned to deal with, but yeah... I miss the tactical pause and directing fire.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Apr 22, 2017 8:25:55 GMT
Why ? A VERY GOOD QUESTION.
They took from us one of the best things in ME trilogy - full control of our team, and that DID matter. In Andromeda i COMPLETELY DIDN'T CARE who is with me in my team in the terms of fighting - i was alone on the battlefield, i didn't even know what my companions are doing at the moment. Wanna know how i choose my team ? I took those who had cool dialogue lines when i was driving Nomad. That's it. Seriously i will never understand why BioWare did it. There was no reason for it in the terms of gameplay or roleplay. Just another wrong decision from developer i suppose.
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Post by zeypher on Apr 22, 2017 8:40:31 GMT
Infact if they want to remove a bit of tactical element the series had, they might as well ditch the squad completely. They are atm completely useless, barely contribute to the fights and are best talking machines. I cant believe this but Beth now does better companions than Eaware atleast when mass effect is concerned. Due to their MP first design soldiers already lost adrenaline rush as time dilation is a issue in MP.
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Post by oniangel on Apr 22, 2017 8:43:23 GMT
The chest armor mod says Ryder only. Seems like there was the intent to allow customization of squad units.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 22, 2017 9:35:54 GMT
Infact if they want to remove a bit of tactical element the series had, they might as well ditch the squad completely. They are atm completely useless, barely contribute to the fights and are best talking machines. I cant believe this but Beth now does better companions than Eaware atleast when mass effect is concerned. Due to their MP first design soldiers already lost adrenaline rush as time dilation is a issue in MP. RIGHT! Why even send them to a designated spot if they're going to jog in place and can't get around one simple box. In the trilogy, I counted on Liara, Jack and Samara to do their biotics when I told them to execute it. Garrus and Thane I knew could handle long range targets. Vega, Ash and Wrex worked best charging the line except when dealing with mechs. But hey... I've adapted to spamming the A button.
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Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 22, 2017 9:39:01 GMT
Why ? A VERY GOOD QUESTION. They took from us one of the best things in ME trilogy - full control of our team, and that DID matter. In Andromeda i COMPLETELY DIDN'T CARE who is with me in my team in the terms of fighting - i was alone on the battlefield, i didn't even know what my companions are doing at the moment. Wanna know how i choose my team ? I took those who had cool dialogue lines when i was driving Nomad. That's it. Seriously i will never understand why BioWare did it. There was no reason for it in the terms of gameplay or roleplay. Just another wrong decision from developer i suppose. Wanna know how i choose my team ? I took those who had cool dialogue lines when i was driving Nomad. That's it. You said it man. Me too. One playthrough and two completely unexplored planets... yeah, collector's edition here I come.
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Hey Conrad, I slept with your sister.
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Post by Rivercurse on Apr 22, 2017 10:33:35 GMT
It was a big mistake. The reason they did it was clearly to stop people breaking the flow of this all action fast paced combat they're all so proud of.
But since when was that Mass Effect, though? All they did was diminish the use of your squad. They might as well never leave the ship.
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Post by Reorte on Apr 22, 2017 10:40:37 GMT
I'm not too bothered by lack of squad control, I didn't use it much anyway (although it would work better with better AI). It's the lack of squad outfitting that's more annoying, and why remove that? As someone else suggested it's a bit pointless collecting all that gear if only Ryder could use it. Sure, assigning gear was a bit of a pain in ME1 but that was down to the inventory system, not the concept (not that MEA is much better on the inventory).
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Post by zeypher on Apr 22, 2017 10:51:13 GMT
Haha i laugh at MEA and inventory, I mean what point does it even serve? You cannot craft from it, you cannot equip from it, so whats the point of having an inventory? Then to outdo themselves even more each item has 10 ranks why?? what purpose does that serve when they could have just used ME2 style reserach which applies to everything style. Hell they could have used DAI model where you have a schematic and stats depend on materials use. The crafting system that exists is by far the worst. The inventory is as bad as ME1 but has none of its functionality.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 10:59:04 GMT
I think they didn't have any buttons left to make it available on consoles
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dm04
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Post by dm04 on Apr 22, 2017 11:35:35 GMT
My initial belief was that the developers felt that squad control and customisation would be 'too complicated' for the current generation of 'Call of Duty' gamers to handle, and that the system should be as streamlined and simplified as possible in order to appeal to the broadest-possible audience. Maybe I'm just being hopelessly cynical though. It's probably something to do with multiplayer. Your initial belief is actualy not wrong. Though it do have something to do with the current generation of "cull of duty" gamers, to a large part it is also because playing videogames became acceptable in the last 10-15 years. 20 years ago, only nerds did play videogames. The typical cliche highschool quarterback would never ever play videogames, but they do now... and I have seen such people play... ME1-3 combat with squad control would be too much for them... a very streamlined easy CoD game is all they can handle. Of course, it is the current generation as well... todays youth is shielded from competition and consequences. Remember that one mission in ME where we had to pick one mission and the other would fail automaticaly, because of no time? This would not work today, for some yes, but most would hate it, and we had that situation in MEA... Voeld and Havarl... help the resistance or the scientist. Also all the decisions, they are not all that "deep" and "dire" as in ME1-3, consequences are there, but very limited.
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GruntKitterhand
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Ha! They're Dead!
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Post by GruntKitterhand on Apr 22, 2017 15:57:39 GMT
I'm not too bothered by the change personally, but that's probably down to me shifting my preference from SP to MP during the ME3 campaign. It's blindingly obvious that the devs want the jump from SP to MP to be as seamless as possible, and that's what they've achieved with ME:A - SP and MP are now the same, apart from the former having better dialogue. And by 'better' I mean less bad. I do find the lack of squad customization confusing though, and can only imagine it was left out because the game was rushed. One point which hasn't been acknowledged is that as a spectator sport, combat in ME:A makes for a better watch than the OT. The pause function might have been fine for us players, but it made the game almost unwatchable for anyone else, as they didn't know what was going on in our heads as we were setting up combos and suchlike. And by 'anyone else' I'm basing that on a sample size of 3 people who have had to regularly contend with my addiction over the years, so it's not a scientific assessment, just an anecdote.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 16:11:03 GMT
As I play MET now, I realize that I did miss at least being able to pick a target to attack fast with multiple powers to get it off the map. I feel like that aspect of tactical play is gone. What I do notice is that when I take cover and snipe in MEA, my squaddies stay back. They have not ever, to my recollection, moved on targets when I am hanging back and doing pre-emptive snipes as long as I don't drag them into the fray. This I think is a different design than MET. From what I have seen so far in MET (I've never been a sniper in MET before) they seem to still do their own thing. If I want to hold an area from a certain position, they still run around the map which is kind of ironic because shepard is a commander and you would think they would take a cue from him more than Ryder. Also some were military in MET. But nope. They just get on that and kill stuff while I am trying to snipe.
MEA, I don't like bringing cora because she charges all over the map. Probably would have same feeling of liam who has havoc but I never bring him. I don't like having squaddies that can charge off and get themselves killed though if I could intentionally get them killed so I could then do my own thing solo, I might like that more.
I do miss tactical pause because sometimes I cannot get see things that are happening. Like where enemies have moved to or where weapon fire is coming from. I sometimes freeze in MET and do a quick spin to see what is around me then back to real time to decide how to handle it.
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Post by zeypher on Apr 22, 2017 16:32:57 GMT
Hell if they give me the shield boost ability they can take away every single squadmate. Thats the only thing i need from my squad anyways.
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Maeljin
N2
A passionate advocate for no-pants Fridays
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Post by Maeljin on Apr 22, 2017 17:09:51 GMT
Squadmates were just extra power slots in the other games. They only did 60% of the damage Shepard did so they were little more than window dressing anyway. They really need to make squadmates special in the next game because right now they're kinda just there. This was even more hilarious if make his AP rounds squad based and took another AR user with you.... Got my cinematic experience and insanity acheevo in one go! Anyhoo, I'm weird so the thing that annoyed me most about not being able change their weapons was that they still had those bloody placeholder weapons in cutscenes...!! But all in all, I was surprised how well the squaddies performed in combat. Peebee was kinda useless though, unless one had biotics too. For the next game: give them 2 weapons, a few outfits and me the option whether or not they use powers without my say-so and I'd be content.
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Post by nanotm on Apr 22, 2017 17:20:44 GMT
the biggest problem is if your toon dies you cant swap to a different char and just res yourself .... its mission failure and try again from the start or if its a friend quest its actually a failure and your screwed ....
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“Major Wulf Khan and the 903rd Catachan ‘Night Shrikes’…”
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Post by Mihura on Apr 22, 2017 17:42:05 GMT
Squadmates were just extra power slots in the other games. They only did 60% of the damage Shepard did so they were little more than window dressing anyway. They really need to make squadmates special in the next game because right now they're kinda just there. I agree if you know what your doing almost any companion can make a good amount of damage or help with passives. I played on insanity and Cora help a lot with the extra charges and extra shield, too bad their weapons suck for most part.
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Post by Maeljin on Apr 22, 2017 17:43:37 GMT
the biggest problem is if your toon dies you cant swap to a different char and just res yourself .... its mission failure and try again from the start or if its a friend quest its actually a failure and your screwed .... This has been the case (for some reason) in every ME so far... Dunno why though, wish it was like in the DA series where you can revive the PC with another char.
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Post by rheia on Apr 22, 2017 17:43:40 GMT
Infact if they want to remove a bit of tactical element the series had, they might as well ditch the squad completely. They are atm completely useless, barely contribute to the fights and are best talking machines. I cant believe this but Beth now does better companions than Eaware atleast when mass effect is concerned. Due to their MP first design soldiers already lost adrenaline rush as time dilation is a issue in MP. Careful what you wish for Knowing Bioware, they will take one look at our feedback and instead of analyzing and stepping up to fix the problem, they will make ME:A2 a first person shooter completely devoid of companions. (I completely share the sentiment, though!)
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