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Post by vanbar on Apr 22, 2017 4:51:31 GMT
I been thinking that the Kett where the attackers of the jardaan. And that the Scourge was a weapon that the jardaan where makeing to combat the Kett but something went wrong. The jardaan they got the heck out leaving there workers the Remnant behind to safe guard until the jardaan could return. Would open up to a 2nd game we find out that we are in the middle of a war betwin the Kett and jardaan.
Thanks Vanbar Sent from a not so smart S7 smart phone.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 22, 2017 4:56:53 GMT
I'm pretty sure that the Kett arrived after the Scourge. However, I can't remember where I read that.
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 22, 2017 5:03:34 GMT
Technologically, the kett don't seem advanced enough to be a threat to the Jardaan. Also, they don't really care about the Remnant. It was only the Archon's butthair. I'm pretty sure that the Kett arrived after the Scourge. However, I can't remember where I read that. I think the Moshae remembers life before the kett, so they're within the last 100-200 years, I would guess. The Scourge was about 400-500 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 5:39:45 GMT
The Kett don't seem all that technologically advanced outside of their prowess with biological engineering. Their ships even seem slightly inferior to those from the Milky Way galaxy, they just have a lot more of them. The Jardaan however seem like a type 3 civilization, similar to the Leviathans' ancestors before the Reapers destroyed them. The Jardaan self-destructing seems a lot more likely than falling to the Kett. If they were destroyed by an external threat, it would have to be aliens who are many times more powerful than the Kett.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 5:40:39 GMT
I RATE THIS THREAD A 5P0173R5/10
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Post by Cypher on Apr 22, 2017 5:47:57 GMT
Aside from the fact that I spoiled to their name beforehand, I bought the game day one and just encountered the Jardaan reference only yesterday; should such a thing be out in the open and outside of spoiler tags?
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 22, 2017 5:50:06 GMT
I'm pretty sure that the Kett arrived after the Scourge. However, I can't remember where I read that. The Kett arrived after the scourge (500 years from present TL? The kett arrived 75 years ago.) and sent out ambassadors. Telling Angara they would be chosen people. Then divided the Angara by attacking Voeld and accusing Havarl of attacking their convoys. Then they went to Havarl and accused Voeld of the same thing. The two sides blamed each other and by the sound of it fought each other over it and the Kett then exploited that. The Angaran fleets were destroyed by the scourge and they were only just recovering when the Kett showed up.
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 12:42:59 GMT
1. By all accounts I've seen in the game the Scourge has only been around Approx 200 years.
2. Kett have been around approx 85 years.
3. Initiative long range scans showed no evidence of remnant technology. (Delay despite advanced scanning with Geth tech.)
4. The planets in Heleus are habitable due to remnant tech, Initiative scans showed habitable worlds
5. Sam's initial scans of Remnant architecture estimated it'd been around only approx [3?]00 years, placed AFTER the Initiative embarked on their journey.
6. Jaal states that Havarl is the birth place of the Angara, but that Voeld "a millenia ago" was their thiving capital.
7. Meridian disengaged with the coming of the scourge, but some Angara remember pre-scourge (Moshae). Meaning the Jardaan and the Angara coexisted in the same time period while the Angara had space flight, yet the remnant technology has always been seen as "Remnants" of another race.
9. The AI found is said to be of "Angaran design" though she disavows this, and the Angara shun such technology.
10. Early on its stated that Remnant tech is less advanced than Prothean (Reaper) technology. I'd say by endgame that is downright false if not highly debateable.
11. Meridian fled to safety, the last known presence of the Jardaan, yet no Jardaan are there. No trace of them.
Given the information at hand, and accounting for the Angara's loss of knowledge and separation after the scourge; My theory is this:
The Jardaan were nearly extinct (war, infighting, i suspect that combined with genetic disease)
The Meridian and Remnant Vaults were ALWAYS self automated, self sustaining, that the Jardaan were all but-if not completely- extinct by the time they began creating life.
The Jardaan and the Angara are one in the same with a centuries long absence as they rebirthed themselves, repairing their planets.
War ravaged their cluster and nearly killed them off, decimating their planets. They are not creating life for the sake of simply doing so, nor for the sake of science.
Its self preservation.
Thoughts?
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 27, 2017 15:37:01 GMT
So many spoilers.... I just wanted to correct a couple of things. Your conclusions aren't necessarily wrong. We really have a dearth of information to go on atm. 1. When you first scan the Scourge and remnant, and in several references later, it's about 400 years. 3. The delay isn't due to the technology. The scourge and remnant and kett all started being factors in the galaxy after the Initiative left the milky way. What they had was accurate at the time that they left. (Though admittedly the space magic doesn't quite make sense.) 4. We don't know that they were habitable due to remnant tech 600 years ago (when the scans took place), since the scourge and the remnant tech date back 400-500 years. We know they were habitable 600 years ago, then the scourge and or the remnant arrived. Seems more likely to me that the remnant tech is to repair the scourge damage. 7. The Moshae does NOT remember pre-scourge. She remembers pre-kett. Meridian was sent off because of the "Opposition," not necessarily because of the Scourge. This whole thread needs to be moved to the spoilers section now
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 27, 2017 15:41:46 GMT
The Kett don't seem all that technologically advanced outside of their prowess with biological engineering. Their ships even seem slightly inferior to those from the Milky Way galaxy, they just have a lot more of them. The Jardaan however seem like a type 3 civilization, similar to the Leviathans' ancestors before the Reapers destroyed them. The Jardaan self-destructing seems a lot more likely than falling to the Kett. If they were destroyed by an external threat, it would have to be aliens who are many times more powerful than the Kett. Could it be the Jardaan were destroyed by the Scourge? Or perhaps they did something and the Scourge is the aftermath of it?
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 27, 2017 15:43:27 GMT
The Kett don't seem all that technologically advanced outside of their prowess with biological engineering. Their ships even seem slightly inferior to those from the Milky Way galaxy, they just have a lot more of them. The Jardaan however seem like a type 3 civilization, similar to the Leviathans' ancestors before the Reapers destroyed them. The Jardaan self-destructing seems a lot more likely than falling to the Kett. If they were destroyed by an external threat, it would have to be aliens who are many times more powerful than the Kett. Could it be the Jardaan were destroyed by the Scourge? Or perhaps they did something and the Scourge is the aftermath of it? IIRC, the Scourge was a weapon or the fallout of a weapon used against them by the Opposition.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 27, 2017 15:52:49 GMT
Could it be the Jardaan were destroyed by the Scourge? Or perhaps they did something and the Scourge is the aftermath of it? IIRC, the Scourge was a weapon or the fallout of a weapon used against them by the Opposition. Hmm... I bet that threat is a long-scale villain down the road...one that will probably force us to work with the Kett...
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 16:09:38 GMT
So many spoilers.... I just wanted to correct a couple of things. Your conclusions aren't necessarily wrong. We really have a dearth of information to go on atm. 1. When you first scan the Scourge and remnant, and in several references later, it's about 400 years. 3. The delay isn't due to the technology. The scourge and remnant and kett all started being factors in the galaxy after the Initiative left the milky way. What they had was accurate at the time that they left. (Though admittedly the space magic doesn't quite make sense.) 4. We don't know that they were habitable due to remnant tech 600 years ago (when the scans took place), since the scourge and the remnant tech date back 400-500 years. We know they were habitable 600 years ago, then the scourge and or the remnant arrived. Seems more likely to me that the remnant tech is to repair the scourge damage. 7. The Moshae does NOT remember pre-scourge. She remembers pre-kett. Meridian was sent off because of the "Opposition," not necessarily because of the Scourge. This whole thread needs to be moved to the spoilers section now I was mistaken on a few of those, but I distinctly remember Sam stating that the event with the Scourge at the Meidian being what spread the Scourge through the cluster, and then later the holo shows Meridian retreating and disengaging when hit by the scourge. Also that the reason the teraforming machines weren't working was DUE to the scourge, like on Habitat 7. These could have been just speculations on part of the characters, but its never corrected after the fact or expanded upon. I figured I was off on the initial scan of the remnant, but Jaal/Angara directly state its been about 200 years since the scourge hit, throwing them back several years and leaving them scattered between planets without communication. They rebuild and are then assaulted by the kett, but all they have are word of mouth history from before the scourge, the Whale things on Voeld being their only living link to that part of their history. Also, several of the planets show evidence of ancient civilizations with no mention of the remnant or Jardaan. Either way, 685(?) years is a short amount of time for a super advanced race to come, die off, and then seed worlds. Maybe the scourge is interacting with that blackhole distorting space time, and threw off the initiatives readings. Perhaps that's not the Jardaan's home cluster, but where they chose to rebuild before being caught by the opposition (again). Still wouldn't explain Jaal's notion of a thriving world on the Angaran's second planet pre scourge that wasn't picked up by initiative's scans. The world was thriving, but bare, and due to some combination of scourge/teraforming machines failing, is now an ice block. The individual vaults are cut off from meridian, needing a jumpstart without the engine, so if they were there to stop the scourge that wouldnt make sense because the event of meridian getting hit with the scourge is what spread it in the first place. The scourge hadnt hit those planets until after meridian fled and broke the connection. I need more coffee.
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 27, 2017 16:26:10 GMT
I could be wrong about the scourge/meridian/the reason for the vaults. But it just seems so odd. I mean, if Havarl and Voeld are where the angara lived, then shouldn't they know more about the vaults and remnant? They would have evolved with the remnant present, right? I don't know, like I said, we have a serious dearth of info.
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 16:29:44 GMT
No argument there. Angara have genetic memory, and Jaal states Meridian is freakishly familiar to him. The pre scourge civilization they speak of COULD have been Jardaan. Then with the coming of the scourge, loss of knowledge, all current Angara would have are word of mouth stories about the before time. Like voeld in its hey day. Idk
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Post by evhgear on Apr 27, 2017 19:29:29 GMT
No argument there. Angara have genetic memory, and Jaal states Meridian is freakishly familiar to him. The pre scourge civilization they speak of COULD have been Jardaan. Then with the coming of the scourge, loss of knowledge, all current Angara would have are word of mouth stories about the before time. Like voeld in its hey day. Idk I never taught that before, but I really like it and it can make sense, but when did the scourge happened ? I don't remember when I heard it but I believe the scourge happened something like 150 years before the Initiative arrives in the Heleus cluster. If so, it feels a bit stupid for a race that seems to have a lifespan way longer than humans(at least 150years) to not remember something that happened in their lifetime.
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 27, 2017 20:24:53 GMT
No argument there. Angara have genetic memory, and Jaal states Meridian is freakishly familiar to him. The pre scourge civilization they speak of COULD have been Jardaan. Then with the coming of the scourge, loss of knowledge, all current Angara would have are word of mouth stories about the before time. Like voeld in its hey day. Idk I never taught that before, but I really like it and it can make sense, but when did the scourge happened ? I don't remember when I heard it but I believe the scourge happened something like 150 years before the Initiative arrives in the Heleus cluster. If so, it feels a bit stupid for a race that seems to have a lifespan way longer than humans(at least 150years) to not remember something that happened in their lifetime. Not entirely sure what you're saying here? The Scourge started about 400 or 500 years ago. No one is alive now who lived before the Scourge. There hasn't been any commentary about angara lifespans, but they seem comparable to humans. Moshae Sjefa remembers life before the kett, which was less than 100 years ago, I think.
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 22:32:42 GMT
No rem tech approx 400 years old.
Scourge approx 200 years old
When resucuing the moshae,a captured Angara is noted as "95" but having strong vitals. That could be age.
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 22:34:30 GMT
And kett are no more than 85 years in the heleus cluster
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 27, 2017 22:43:48 GMT
By remnant tech, I tend to think of the vaults and monoliths. They seem like they have enough energy and such to be detectable by the magic telescope.
The smaller remnant spots could have been there much longer.
But I'm kinda flying blind, so who knows?
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 23:27:54 GMT
Codex: Angara History
Scourge struck in 2400 CE (MW Calendar)
Dark age lasted only about 100 years.
Kett arrived 75 years ago
Angara earliest dates 1600 BCE
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Post by kharsis on Apr 27, 2017 23:51:19 GMT
10. Early on its stated that Remnant tech is less advanced than Prothean (Reaper) technology. I'd say by endgame that is downright false if not highly debateable. Thoughts? The description when it is discussed in game is that Prothean tech was Plug'n'play whereas remnant tech is harder to figure out. This makes sense as the reapers were influencing tech in the MW.
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 23:56:23 GMT
I was using that as an example as to how information given in conversation could be incorrect, just speculation. Im fairly certain she states that at a glance its not as advanced, during that same conversation.
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 28, 2017 0:40:04 GMT
Looking at the codex now.
Remnant Creators are described as a Type 1 civilization on the Kardeshev scale. The Scourge hit on 2400 CE. It sent angaran civilization into a dark age of ~100 years. The kett arrived 75 years ago
I'm only partway through this playthrough and didn't feel like loading my completed playthrough to see what the codex says at the end.
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Post by R'Shara on Apr 28, 2017 0:43:17 GMT
Ah, looks like the wiki timeline has been updated already. masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline2185 CE December 7: The Andromeda Initiative begins its journey to the Andromeda galaxy, with the first wave, made up of the Nexus, Ark Hyperion, Ark Leusinia, Ark Natanus, and Ark Paarchero, launching into dark space. A second wave comprised of Ark Keelah Si'yah is expected to launch not long after. Andromeda Bound (2186 CE - 2818 CE) 2419 CE (Estimated date) The final Remnant structures are built on Habitat 7 before the Scourge hits. 2450 CE (Estimated date) The Scourge is unleashed in the Heleus Cluster, attacking all Remnant technology it can find. Remnant vaults are deactivated, the golden worlds decline, and angaran civilization falls into a dark age. 2600 CE (Estimated date) The Scourge stabilizes, and angaran civilization recovers. Five angaran worlds, including Havarl and Voeld, rediscover spaceflight and reunite, finding they have developed divergent cultures. The angara discover and colonize Aya and Kadara. 2744 CE The kett invade the Heleus Cluster of the Andromeda galaxy. While the main goal of the invasion is to exalt the angara into the Kett Empire, the invasion force's Archon becomes obsessed with learning how to control Remnant technology. 2814 CE Evfra de Tershaav reorganizes the angara's many ineffective resistance movements against the kett into the Angaran Resistance, based out of Aya. New Frontiers (2818 CE - 2819 CE) 2818 CE: Touchdown Andromeda The events of Mass Effect: Nexus Uprising occur. The Nexus arrives in the Heleus Cluster of the Andromeda galaxy after a 633 year journey through dark space. 2819 CE Ark Leusinia, Ark Natanus, and Ark Paarchero arrive in the Heleus Cluster separately. They are either attacked by the kett or damaged by the Scourge, preventing them from rendezvousing with the Nexus. The events of Mass Effect: Andromeda begin. Ark Hyperion arrives in the Andromeda galaxy 14 months after the Nexus.
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