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Post by klijpope on Apr 25, 2017 1:21:40 GMT
Or else who we gonna shoot?
There's <100,000 of the MW species left, probably a lot less. There couldn't have been more than a couple of thousand exiles left by the time Ryder gets involved; so I've shot half of them (OK, not including Roekaar and Anagram deserters, but still). That means my team has killed around 1%, give or take a few decimal places, of our own people!
So any nefarious MW bad guys in future games is gonna need an army of mechs for cannon fodder, cuz the army of mercs are all rotting on Kadara (or working for Sloane/Reyes).
It's good they didn't make us shoot many krogan.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 25, 2017 1:25:17 GMT
I have to say, reading the title I was hoping this thread was asking to be able to pilot a mech suit. That would be awesome.
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Post by klijpope on Apr 25, 2017 1:31:44 GMT
I have to say, reading the title I was hoping this thread was asking to be able to pilot a mech suit. That would be awesome. Yup, that would be awesome. Kett-Mechs. Or is it Kett-Tech-Mechs?
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Post by timebean on Apr 25, 2017 1:36:27 GMT
Or else who we gonna shoot? There's <100,000 of the MW species left, probably a lot less. There couldn't have been more than a couple of thousand exiles left by the time Ryder gets involved; so I've shot half of them (OK, not including Roekaar and Anagram deserters, but still). That means my team has killed around 1%, give or take a few decimal places, of our own people! So any nefarious MW bad guys in future games is gonna need an army of mechs for cannon fodder, cuz the army of mercs are all rotting on Kadara (or working for Sloane/Reyes). It's good they didn't make us shoot many krogan. Shit dude...in 1000 years, that cluster will be pure Krogan.
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 25, 2017 1:41:27 GMT
Eh, I can understand the gripe about how we shoot too many beings from MW races. I just look at is as a typical gameplay/story segregation issue. If this story were told in book form, I'm sure the number of Exiles killed by Ryder and crew would likely be 20 or fewer, but for the sake of argument, I could see that being pushed up to around 100. 100 out of approximately 100,000 isn't that many, by a long stretch. Should game developers be more cognizant of these kinds of situations, and limit or mitigate such story/gameplay disconnect issues? Sure, but I don't take them too seriously. They're basically in just about any game with any sort of combat to 'em, if you look hard enough. Bioware just makes it easier for us to spot 'em.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 25, 2017 1:45:06 GMT
I came here hoping for drivable mechs. Oh well.
Yeah I was hoping there would have been a side quest on Kadara or Elaadin where a group of exiles engineers had pulled together with Angara to build a mech army. And hopefully out of Angara and Kett Tech
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 1:48:00 GMT
Well if we are talking about realism, wouldn't be more realistic for the crew on the Tempest to join us on missions rather than just two? And how is it that just three people can take out an entire army?
Yeah, these things need to be overlooked because its part of the gameplay.
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 25, 2017 1:53:08 GMT
Well if we are talking about realism, wouldn't be more realistic for the crew on the Tempest to join us on missions rather than just two? And how is it that just three people can take out an entire army? Yeah, these things need to be overlooked because its part of the gameplay. "Overlooked" is maybe pushing things a bit. I'm all for pointing out inconsistencies and other such stuff in an (admittedly vain) attempt to "pressure" game developers to work at lessening the impact of these kinds of things. I don't see a problem with discussing the issue, I just don't think it's a big enough issue to make a huge stink over. Some posts on the subject have gone a bit OTT in this regard, IMO, but pointing it out isn't a bad thing in and of itself.
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Post by klijpope on Apr 25, 2017 2:05:58 GMT
Yeah, these things need to be overlooked because its part of the gameplay. Oh, I get that. Not taking it that seriously. Just that I can't think of any other game where the protagonist, most of their allies, and a good portion of their enemies, are all effectively members of endangered species. I think Ryder is technically guilty of genocide, four/five times over, which makes me chuckle. Took Shep three games to even have the opportunity to do it that many times . Adding some humanoid mechs with guns would at least offer a gameplay-story 'out' for the problem.
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 25, 2017 2:09:11 GMT
Yeah, these things need to be overlooked because its part of the gameplay. Oh, I get that. Not taking it that seriously. Just that I can't think of any other game where the protagonist, most of their allies, and a good portion of their enemies, are all effectively members of endangered species. I think Ryder is technically guilty of genocide, four/five times over, which makes me chuckle. Took Shep three games to even have the opportunity to do it that many times . Adding some humanoid mechs with guns would at least offer a gameplay-story 'out' for the problem. As long as they didn't overdo it and make it seem like a rehash of ME2's "mercenary" enemies, that'd be a good way to mitigate the story/gameplay issue. I'd rather see fewer, but stronger mechs (not quite Remnant Destroyer level), and make 'em seem pretty junky, thrown together looking. Having too many mechs would raise the issue of "where'd they come from! We don't have any mech factories in Heleus yet!"
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Post by Warrior DM on Apr 25, 2017 2:17:07 GMT
I wouldn't mind destroying some Kett ships in Gundam Wing Zero.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 25, 2017 2:30:15 GMT
Or else who we gonna shoot? There's <100,000 of the MW species left, probably a lot less. There couldn't have been more than a couple of thousand exiles left by the time Ryder gets involved; so I've shot half of them (OK, not including Roekaar and Anagram deserters, but still). That means my team has killed around 1%, give or take a few decimal places, of our own people! So any nefarious MW bad guys in future games is gonna need an army of mechs for cannon fodder, cuz the army of mercs are all rotting on Kadara (or working for Sloane/Reyes). It's good they didn't make us shoot many krogan. According to my stats I've killed about 4 and a half thousand people since launch. They better get some new Arks out here coz I'm running out of targets fast. *Aims Ryncol*
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 25, 2017 2:42:47 GMT
Some gameplay/story segregation. Ryder and co probably killed at most hundreds of Milky Wayers, not thousands. APEX probably killed at most thousands, not tens of thousands. Then most colonists are stuck in sleeper pods (to be recovered or not) during MEA, so this is more like a period of relatively intense carnage before everything settles down into some sort of more peaceful order.
That said, a MEA2 with Ryder and with at least any of the hints MEA gives us, will only take place at most years, maybe, I dunno, a decade or two (probably not), after MEA. This means a growing but fragile population.
It doesn't make much sense to have a Milky Wayer/Nexus main enemy faction. Villain, rival, other factions, sure - but not one of the things we'd see in any MP mode.
Kett and Remnant both seem possible but: -the reaction to Kett is mixed, so we could get anything from them being shuffled off in the next game, to indeed having them return and be reimagined -the Remnant deal is part of a bigger story, but the 'guard bot' part might be done after MEA; no more vaults, or if there is, that doesn't necessarily mean it'd be a story there about Remnant guard bots
If MEA2 wants to follow any sort of tradition, we'd have a more native faction, a more alien faction, and a machine faction. -ME1 follows this the least, but it has the various humanoids we fight, weird stuff like Thorian creepers, and the Geth -ME2 has the mercs in various forms, the Collectors, and the Geth. -ME3 has Cerberus, Reaper troops, and the Geth. -MEA has Outlaws, Kett, and Remnant.
I can see two bigger directions: 1)We stick to what might be a more established plan, and we fight Kett affected peoples, an expanded Kett, and the actual militaristic tech of the 'Remnant', all as part of an intertwining story about them all in a larger galaxy instead of just a Helius golden cluster. 2)Bioware gets scared off and we'll have no clue what approach they take, and they minimize the MEA plot focus as much as they reasonably can
Either way, I can see lots of mechs happening. In fact, more than ever. It doesn't mean the mechs are AI like Geth, VI like Remnant. Theoretically, we could get something rather twisty synthesis-y with a pseudo-organic AI race *shrug*. In any case, there will probably always be something (or 2-3 factions of somethings) with TONS of things to use our guns on.
Its true that MEA was a stretch to believe so many outlaws existed. If the Roekaar had a bigger story in SP, Kadara's relatively isolated gangland had a smaller story, and we got a Roekaar mix in MP (maybe this could happen with a patch though), it'd feel like it made more sense.
I don't think we'll be focusing content on the planets of the Heleus Cluster anyway. Yes, we may visit them in more contained (though maybe detailed) fashion in some story and to see what they've been up to. Yes some very important story events may happen in the cluster and as part of its mysteries. But I highly doubt Bioware will take the same 'roam/drive around these big zones' approach again, at least not to Heleus itself. I anticipate a more crafted experience and one where I won't be asking as much of a question of 'Where did these mooks come from?'.
I agree that its good they didn't make us shoot many krogan. Outlaw krogan were somewhat rare (more common in MP but again, segregate what that means), and Behemoths were mini-bosses. We fought them enough to care about losing them (if we cared about krogan to start), but we didn't fight enough that we would be freaked out about how many exist in antagonistic form already.
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Post by klijpope on Apr 25, 2017 2:43:38 GMT
Having too many mechs would raise the issue of "where'd they come from! We don't have any mech factories in Heleus yet!" I would've thought that the Nexus had manufacturing capability. It's 15km long, way more real estate than 100,000 folk are gonna need. There's got to be industrial facilities built in. Having shipyards to just maintain the craft they brought with them would be crucial. If they have the materials, they can build shuttles, so why not mechs? Got the impression from Nexus Uprising that a majority of the Nexus was inaccessible until the Hyperion showed up, and then only opened up slowly as and when more people could be woken up. There could well be warehouses of shrink-wrapped general purpose humanoid mechs already aboard somewhere.
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Post by Deana on Apr 25, 2017 2:47:38 GMT
I want to use the diving mech again.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 25, 2017 2:48:18 GMT
Oh, I get that. Not taking it that seriously. Just that I can't think of any other game where the protagonist, most of their allies, and a good portion of their enemies, are all effectively members of endangered species. I think Ryder is technically guilty of genocide, four/five times over, which makes me chuckle. Took Shep three games to even have the opportunity to do it that many times . Adding some humanoid mechs with guns would at least offer a gameplay-story 'out' for the problem. As long as they didn't overdo it and make it seem like a rehash of ME2's "mercenary" enemies, that'd be a good way to mitigate the story/gameplay issue. I'd rather see fewer, but stronger mechs (not quite Remnant Destroyer level), and make 'em seem pretty junky, thrown together looking. Having too many mechs would raise the issue of "where'd they come from! We don't have any mech factories in Heleus yet!" There's actually hints in MEA that colonies (or at least Eos) is going to start up factories very soon. Construction is very easy in Mass Effect, whether buildings or parts. Its still a task, sure, but what would take us months-years could take the Nexus/MW people days-months. Its pretty clearly implied that months after MEA events places will start to bustle but just not be populated due to needing babies, but in years there will be thriving industries, and then finally just decades there will be generations started and new colonies thriving and strong growth. If MEA2 takes place just years later, its more likely that we don't fight some 'internal' Outlaw faction but instead something like APEX/Pathfinder/etc continues on in a more mature fashion to face the threats beyond Heleus as they knock on its door. If anything, we'll have lots of mechs of our own manufactured, through a mix of Milky Way and Remnant tech. EDIT: Ryder is not genocidal. In bigger story he kills um, dozens? Low hundreds? In completionism (and over the course of at least many months) he kills hundreds? Low thousands? And not all him, but spread out to his squad and their purposes (loyalty missions etc), allied forces, NPCs we come across. He can be said to have made a killing name to himself to certain sorts (especially say Kadara, thus the bar fight with Drack lol), and maybe the most kills of Milky Way people than anyone else (except I dunno, people like Sloane indirectly?), but he has also not at all reached genocidal heights like Shepard (at least factoring in an Arrival canon) and he is far more known for securing safety for the Nexus people. EDIT: Also only Ryder and at most a few others know about the 'endangered species' part, and even that is theoretical without confirmation. As long as they think there's more in the Milky Way, they're not 'endangered'. There is an endangering of a viable Initiative, but that's different. Its why (beyond some stiltedly designed scenes) the Nexus when we meet them seem despondentbut not in total panic. They would hate the worst case scenario, but even their worst case includes presuming that billions on the Milky Way are still alive, and their species gets to continue.
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Post by klijpope on Apr 25, 2017 2:55:22 GMT
I agree that its good they didn't make us shoot many krogan. Outlaw krogan were somewhat rare (more common in MP but again, segregate what that means), and Behemoths were mini-bosses. We fought them enough to care about losing them (if we cared about krogan to start), but we didn't fight enough that we would be freaked out about how many exist in antagonistic form already. I think I may have encountered about a dozen unfriendly Krogan. If so, that's the 1% figure again. Any sequel is bound to get new factions, but we're still going to be facing MW bad guys, if just from the fact that otherwise the Nexus species do start to look like colonial invader arseholes. More varied, and localised, animal threats would be welcome, too. However, a better way would be find another satisfying and challenging gameplay loop on top of shooting stuff. After all, we're a Pathfinder, not a Spectre; we're James Kirk, not James Bond. I mean, if there were other ground vehicles that actually moved, we could have car chases!
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Post by klijpope on Apr 25, 2017 3:05:18 GMT
EDIT: Also only Ryder and at most a few others know about the 'endangered species' part, and even that is theoretical without confirmation. As long as they think there's more in the Milky Way, they're not 'endangered'. There is an endangering of a viable Initiative, but that's different. Its why (beyond some stiltedly designed scenes) the Nexus when we meet them seem despondentbut not in total panic. They would hate the worst case scenario, but even their worst case includes presuming that billions on the Milky Way are still alive, and their species gets to continue. Well I said effectively endangered, as even if the Milky Way were hunky-dory it is still 600 years and 2.5 million light-years away. Ryder is technically genocidal in a legal sense, as in killing a certain percentage of the population. But yes, it is a gameplay conceit. And not as jarring as, say, Lara Croft, who has slaughtered hundreds of hardened international mercenaries with her ice-axe. That makes means a) she is a psychopath, and she has killed most of the ex-special forces dudes that exist and the survivors now command super-high fees to are cowering in their basements with extreme PTSD.
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 25, 2017 3:50:58 GMT
Having too many mechs would raise the issue of "where'd they come from! We don't have any mech factories in Heleus yet!" I would've thought that the Nexus had manufacturing capability. It's 15km long, way more real estate than 100,000 folk are gonna need. There's got to be industrial facilities built in. Having shipyards to just maintain the craft they brought with them would be crucial. If they have the materials, they can build shuttles, so why not mechs? Got the impression from Nexus Uprising that a majority of the Nexus was inaccessible until the Hyperion showed up, and then only opened up slowly as and when more people could be woken up. There could well be warehouses of shrink-wrapped general purpose humanoid mechs already aboard somewhere. The NEXUS very well may have industrial capabilities, but before Hyperion arrived, they'd be at best powered down, and at worst not even fully finished yet. And having those be an excuse for any "renegade" faction to have access to them would be a stretch, 'cause if they're renegades, why would the Nexus give/sell them 'Mechs? That said, warehouses of mothballed GP mechs could definitely explain the source, if they were stolen or whatnot. It'd have to have a LEAST a brief mention to make sense, though. Maybe a short quest to find out why all of these mechs are missing, we find out they were stolen, take out the smuggling ring headquarters, but the damage is already done. I'd like a side quest like that for next game, for sure. As long as they didn't overdo it and make it seem like a rehash of ME2's "mercenary" enemies, that'd be a good way to mitigate the story/gameplay issue. I'd rather see fewer, but stronger mechs (not quite Remnant Destroyer level), and make 'em seem pretty junky, thrown together looking. Having too many mechs would raise the issue of "where'd they come from! We don't have any mech factories in Heleus yet!" There's actually hints in MEA that colonies (or at least Eos) is going to start up factories very soon. Construction is very easy in Mass Effect, whether buildings or parts. Its still a task, sure, but what would take us months-years could take the Nexus/MW people days-months. Its pretty clearly implied that months after MEA events places will start to bustle but just not be populated due to needing babies, but in years there will be thriving industries, and then finally just decades there will be generations started and new colonies thriving and strong growth. If MEA2 takes place just years later, its more likely that we don't fight some 'internal' Outlaw faction but instead something like APEX/Pathfinder/etc continues on in a more mature fashion to face the threats beyond Heleus as they knock on its door. If anything, we'll have lots of mechs of our own manufactured, through a mix of Milky Way and Remnant tech. *snip* True, Initiative colonies would be starting up manufacturing, but the same kinda deal applies as does to Nexus based manufacturing. It still wouldn't explain how any renegade faction got their hands on 'em. I'm more than willing to use colonial mfg plants to explain where the mechs came from in the first place, but how a renegade faction got 'em would still need at least a brief explanation.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 25, 2017 4:20:02 GMT
I have to say, reading the title I was hoping this thread was asking to be able to pilot a mech suit. That would be awesome. And then have the Fiend beat the crap out of the thing forcing Ryder out of the mech to fight Fiend on foot only to be killed in such an excellent way. I agree. That would be awesome. I do agree though about piloting a mech like Shepard did in ME3 after hyjacking an atlas
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Post by themikefest on Apr 25, 2017 4:34:40 GMT
There's actually hints in MEA that colonies (or at least Eos) is going to start up factories very soon. Construction is very easy in Mass Effect, whether buildings or parts. Its still a task, sure, but what would take us months-years could take the Nexus/MW people days-months. Its pretty clearly implied that months after MEA events places will start to bustle but just not be populated due to needing babies, but in years there will be thriving industries, and then finally just decades there will be generations started and new colonies thriving and strong growth. How long would it take to build ships for combat? Will they be able to deal with the kett? The kett are the biggest threat even though Ryder stopped archon. The kett know the location of all outposts. They know the location of Meridian and the Nexus. Hopefully Ryder and the others are aware of that. I don't know how large a force Primus currently has in the cluster, but he most likely will contact the leaders to get advice on what to do. He would probably ask for reinforcements. The leaders would most likely agree by sending a very large force to help Primus to exalt the cluster. Will the colonies/outposts and Initiative be able to handle that? Of course there's know way of knowing how long it would take for more kett to arrive in the cluster. I'm sure they will be in a dlc and possibly the next game. So I'm curious what will happen
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Post by joglee on Apr 25, 2017 4:34:50 GMT
Story wise you kill at most 50-100 Exiles.
Most of your stats come from respawns and overly packed areas for the sake of gameplay.
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Post by babe145869 on Apr 25, 2017 8:06:28 GMT
It seems Mech's would be made and used eventually, especially if people involved with Cerberus reach Adromada. It would also make sense to use mechs to protect outposts from Remnants. Maybe in a future dlc there will be more arks with more tech from the trilogy.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 25, 2017 9:33:18 GMT
Eh, I can understand the gripe about how we shoot too many beings from MW races. I just look at is as a typical gameplay/story segregation issue. If this story were told in book form, I'm sure the number of Exiles killed by Ryder and crew would likely be 20 or fewer, but for the sake of argument, I could see that being pushed up to around 100. 100 out of approximately 100,000 isn't that many, by a long stretch. Should game developers be more cognizant of these kinds of situations, and limit or mitigate such story/gameplay disconnect issues? Sure, but I don't take them too seriously. They're basically in just about any game with any sort of combat to 'em, if you look hard enough. Bioware just makes it easier for us to spot 'em. I were at 900 outlaws few days ago, 1100 now, and have not done Kadara yet, I gues, by the end of the day, it will be 1500. Whatever... there are not 100.000 MW enemies, there are no outlaws from Hyperion, that leaves human outlaws limited to Nexus population. There could be a lot of Turian outside the nexus, as the ark is empty and we never learn where all the 20.000 turians are. Asari is... well a lot of them is still aboard the ark when you rescue it, some were jetisoned. So, there arent actualy that many asari around. Salarian... Ark captured from the very beginning, many are lost to the Kett and some get back to the Nexus.On Nexus, not everyone was awakened. We can only assume as of how many people are aboard Nexus, but lets say 20.000 like the arks... 4 species aboard the Nexus so lets say ~5000 humans. Lets say, 2500-3500 humans are up and well. Lets further assume 50% were exiled. Regarding the size of Kadara, that seems to be about right, regarding the number of "troops" outlaws can muster? Unplausible. We do not know if more Krogan were awakened when the other left, so it could be 3000-5000 Korans on New Tuchanka, we see very few running around outside of Tuchanka. The populations for Turrians... highly disciplined, while ~3000 are awake, I gues just about 500 joined the exiles. Add Turians from the lost ark to this number, as we do not know how many returned to Nexus/the outposts, so it is possible about 15.000+ turians are there. Salarians are... well they think a lot. While the situation on the Nexus is not ideal, leaving it for a very unstable and unpredictable situation as outlaw/exile does not seem to be very Salarian-like. Many Ark-Salarians are lost to the Kett and the few still aboard join Nexus, and do not leave. Humans are pretty much the same, they maybe not as logical as Salarians or disciplined as Turians, but they are not as restless as Asari. (Btw I suggest talking to someone from a brazilian, rio de janeiro, slum... an uideal life "in the city" is preferred to living in the slum). The largest portion of the outlaws should be Asar, as they are depicted as restless and unpredictable. So... I would say, there are 5.000-10.000 MW people living outside the AI (Nexus+Outposts). This whole uprising stuff... poor writing, badly designed.
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piratesnugglecakes
N2
My oven mitt is too small.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 99 Likes: 165
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piratesnugglecakes
My oven mitt is too small.
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Apr 17, 2017 19:56:52 GMT
April 2017
piratesnugglecakes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by piratesnugglecakes on Apr 25, 2017 13:21:48 GMT
I would love to see Mechs in limited quantities and some robots. Given how many humans are in cryo, having some robots around to do some duties would make sense. And yes, what I'm working around too is a really smart really special robot with a difficult personality like HK-47. No, I never got over his awesomeness.
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