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Post by peddroelm on Jun 14, 2017 8:30:53 GMT
Hm. After playing with the amp, and a game or two in the remnant apex mission for -power damage, there definitely is (very consistent) variation on where the shield bar ends after pull hits. It's tiny though, between basically in the space of R to V in the Obse rver. Respecced adept to a different build with much lower power damage, the shield bar now moves to around VE area. Pull 6a anti-shield 600 base (is affected by biotic power damage bonuses) on gladiator with 0.25 PD and 0.3 Biotic PD gear 930 damage vs shields 600 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3) 1302 damage vs debuffed shields 600 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) Now gladiator's probably not gonna get that much PD but on adept you can get it pretty high ( not enough for gold observer) and on kineticist can get it to somewhat compete with lance damage vs shields ..(lance probably still the better option if you can aim it ..) . 2 shot is reachable and pull can get quite low cooldown or you can help it with gun fire .. can get it them both to 1 shot gold anointed and sharpshooter shields 1187.5 . Pretty certain kineticist can lance 2 shot gold observer shields hitting weakspot .. 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.3 + 0.45 + 0.3) * 1.35 * (1.4 - 0.25) = 1513.6875 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.3 + 0.45 + 0.3) * 1.35 = 1316.25 // even without weakspot With devastating ascension + boosters probably enough to 1 lance weakspot shot gold observer shields . 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.3 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.35 + 0.4 + 0.2) * 1.35 * (1.4 - 0.25) = 2066.765625 FAR FROM ENOUGH |
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These pretzels are making me thirsty!!!
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jun 14, 2017 9:46:44 GMT
Hm. After playing with the amp, and a game or two in the remnant apex mission for -power damage, there definitely is (very consistent) variation on where the shield bar ends after pull hits. It's tiny though, between basically in the space of R to V in the Obse rver. Respecced adept to a different build with much lower power damage, the shield bar now moves to around VE area. Pull 6a anti-shield 600 base (is affected by biotic power damage bonuses) on gladiator with 0.25 PD and 0.3 Biotic PD gear 930 damage vs shields 600 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3) 1302 damage vs debuffed shields 600 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3) * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) Now gladiator's probably not gonna get that much PD but on adept you can get it pretty high ( not enough for gold observer) and on kineticist can get it to somewhat compete with lance damage vs shields ..(lance probably still the better option if you can aim it ..) . 2 shot is reachable and pull can get quite low cooldown or you can help it with gun fire .. can get it them both to 1 shot gold anointed and sharpshooter shields 1187.5 . Pretty certain kineticist can lance 2 shot gold observer shields hitting weakspot .. 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.3 + 0.45 + 0.3) * 1.35 * 1.4 = 1842.75 With devastating ascension + biotic PD booster probably enough to 1 lance weakspot shot gold observer shields . 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.3 + 0.45 + 0.3 + 0.35 + 0.4) * 1.35 * 1.4 = 2374.3125 Good stuff on anti shields. I'm not convinced the bonuses applied pre 1.06, but started to notice it doing more damage than expected. On to Lance, Is the 35% multiplicative bonus the additional default weakspot damage? I assumed the additional 40% was additive. |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 14, 2017 10:14:11 GMT
On to Lance, Is the 35% multiplicative bonus the additional default weakspot damage? I assumed the additional 40% was additive. AA test , 50 PD passive, shield powered lance they are multiplicative . Forgot observers also had -0.25 weak spot modfier .. It is almost impossible NOT TO weakspot observer that is facing you with lance. (managed once in above 50 attempts. Assemblers are quite harder to weakspot hit with lance - you need to aim ) SH, 14875906, 2235, 9842EC08, 2375.000, 2375.000, 1185.313, -1189.687 SH, 14876875, 969, 9842EC08, 2375.000, 2375.000, 1006.859, -1368.141 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.3) * (1.4 - 0.25) * 1.35 = 1368.14 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.3) * 1.35 = 1189.6875 turned on Annihilation SH, 15080218, 234, 8EDCE068, 2375.000, 2375.000, 951.200, -1423.800 // BE SH, 15080234, 16, 9842EC08, 2375.000, 2375.000, 951.200, -1423.800 // gold BE vs shields 791 * 1.5 * 1.2 = 1423.8 SH, 15080250, 16, 8EDCE068, 2375.000, 2375.000, 733.231, -1641.769 // lance 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.3) * (1.4 - 0.25) * 1.35 * (1 + 0.2) = 1641.768 respecced the AA out of 50% combo damage and went for my preferred exposure (extra gun and lance damage within the field and makes the field DOT very damaging) also moved some points from throw into biotic warrior (this sadly makes throw have rather monstrous cooldown) SH, 16229531, 63, 96F279A8, 2375.000, 2375.000, 1267.600, -1107.400 // gold BE vs shields 791 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 1107.4 HP, 16229546, 15, 9844FBE0, 2375.000, 2238.500, 1131.100, -1107.400 SH, 16229562, 16, 96F279A8, 2375.000, 2375.000, 459.603, -1915.397 // lance 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.3) * (1.4 - 0.25) * 1.35 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 1915.396 HP, 16232796, 140, 9D1FFCA0, 2375.000, 1501.750, 394.350, -1107.400 HP, 16232812, 16, 9711CE00, 2375.000, 1501.750, 394.350, -1107.400 SH, 16232812, 0, 96F279A8, 2375.000, 2375.000, 133.578, -2241.422 // biotic warrior lance 375 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.3 + 0.4) * (1.4 - 0.25) * 1.35 * (1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 2241.4218 |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 14, 2017 11:17:55 GMT
On to Lance, Is the 35% multiplicative bonus the additional default weakspot damage? re-read the question lance 5b anti-shield *1.35 vs shields. Those test numbers were lancing vs observer shields . And the default weakspot damage is *1.4 also multiplicative |
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These pretzels are making me thirsty!!!
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jun 14, 2017 11:37:44 GMT
On to Lance, Is the 35% multiplicative bonus the additional default weakspot damage? re-read the question lance 5b anti-shield *1.35 vs shields. Those test numbers were lancing vs observer shields . And the default weakspot damage is *1.4 also multiplicative Ah, gotcha. I missed that somehow. |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 14, 2017 12:19:39 GMT
1.08
lance + weakspot booster 1 ; 15%
375 * (1 + 0.3)
HP, 22903531, 22903531, 8F923380, 783.750, 783.750, 101.250, -682.500 // headshot 375 * (1 + 0.3) * 1.4 = 682.5
HP, 22916062, 12531, 8F923380, 783.750, 783.750, 296.250, -487.500 // 375 * (1 + 0.3) = 487.5
375 * (1 + 0.3) * (1.4 + 0.15) = 755.625 // bug +weakspot damage booster STILL doesn't apply to lance
huuricane gun test
HP, 23082218, 166156, 8F923380, 783.750, 783.750, 705.100, -78.650
HP, 23087906, 5688, 8F923380, 783.750, 783.750, 661.843, -121.907 // 78.65 * (1.4 + 0.15) = 121.9075
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These pretzels are making me thirsty!!!
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jun 15, 2017 10:18:55 GMT
The value for the Sharpshooter's shields in the "Numerical Data Masterbook" is incorrect. They got a 60% buff in 1.06, and should be 1900. It also still has the Pariah as being armored.
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unclemonster
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: unclemonster
Posts: 652 Likes: 1,029
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Post by unclemonster on Jun 15, 2017 13:25:50 GMT
AA test , 50 PD passive, shield powered lance respecced the AA out of 50% combo damage and went for my preferred exposure So, in your opinion, exposure evo is better than combo damage evo on adept? |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 15, 2017 13:45:12 GMT
AA test , 50 PD passive, shield powered lance respecced the AA out of 50% combo damage and went for my preferred exposure So, in your opinion, exposure evo is better than combo damage evo on adept? I prefer it that way but you should take that with a grain of salt - I'm not a very good player .. |
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These pretzels are making me thirsty!!!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Jade Empire
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jun 15, 2017 13:57:14 GMT
I've searched around but haven't found any testing around close quarters momentum on bioelectric defense, and whether or not Avenger Strike hits count.
I've switched my build around a bit to accommodate the rank, seeing as I only have her at rank IV, but can't test it out yet.
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 15, 2017 14:58:36 GMT
I've searched around but haven't found any testing around close quarters momentum on bioelectric defense, and whether or not Avenger Strike hits count. I've switched my build around a bit to accommodate the rank, seeing as I only have her at rank IV, but can't test it out yet. in this very thread with a like from Kenny Bania |
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Post by Kenny Bania on Jun 15, 2017 15:13:22 GMT
I've searched around but haven't found any testing around close quarters momentum on bioelectric defense, and whether or not Avenger Strike hits count. I've switched my build around a bit to accommodate the rank, seeing as I only have her at rank IV, but can't test it out yet. in this very thread with a like from Kenny Bania WTF?????? I recall seeing that post too, but don't know how I missed the CQM bit. I also explicitly tried searching the thread and forum for that specific term. I guess I'm losing it. Sorry.  |
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Post by ramsen on Jun 15, 2017 21:54:28 GMT
So, in your opinion, exposure evo is better than combo damage evo on adept? I prefer it that way but you should take that with a grain of salt - I'm not a very good player .. Isn't that counter productive since detonating removes the exposure debuff? I only know that because of this thread 😮 |
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To troll or not to pug, that's the question
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by N7Mith on Jun 16, 2017 0:31:56 GMT
I prefer it that way but you should take that with a grain of salt - I'm not a very good player .. Isn't that counter productive since detonating removes the exposure debuff? I only know that because of this thread 😮 Only if you detonate. He could play her more casually and shoot/melee more often. |
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Post by capn233 on Jun 16, 2017 0:37:10 GMT
I feel like Lance has a lot more "auto-aim" than it did when the game was released.
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To troll or not to pug, that's the question
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Post by N7Mith on Jun 16, 2017 0:48:30 GMT
I feel like Lance has a lot more "auto-aim" than it did when the game was released. Yes, 1.06 changed the targeting and projectile movement speed dramatically. |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 16, 2017 3:06:25 GMT
I prefer it that way but you should take that with a grain of salt - I'm not a very good player .. Isn't that counter productive since detonating removes the exposure debuff? I only know that because of this thread 😮 annihilation field and singularity DOTs ticks every half seconds and the next DOT tick after detonation re-primes the target - re-activates exposure .. Even if the target will be immune to that particular type of combo for 5 seconds (combo cooldown immunity) exposure is sort of perma-on within singularity and annihilation fields.. For similar reasons I also prefer exposure on the Human adept .. |
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Post by konfeta on Jun 16, 2017 3:34:47 GMT
But, for Kineticist, it means Expose doesn't do much if you are doing the pull-throw combo. Though, neither does crushing grip...
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 16, 2017 4:08:14 GMT
But, for Kineticist, it means Expose doesn't do much if you are doing the pull-throw combo. Though, neither does crushing grip... expose on both pull and passive will increase the combo damage of tap pull + throw |
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Post by konfeta on Jun 16, 2017 4:22:49 GMT
Huh, really? I vaguely remember reading that biotic prime effects got stripped before the detonation occurred. Or was that for other types of primers/detonators?
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 16, 2017 4:30:12 GMT
Huh, really? I vaguely remember reading that biotic prime effects got stripped before the detonation occurred. Or was that for other types of primers/detonators? not before - after (for the most part - our combo table at the moment is missing info in combo and detonator order), but singularity and annihilation re-prime every 0.5 second re-enabling the prime and debuffs.. |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 16, 2017 9:39:56 GMT
HP, 12799828, 2563, 94EE3400, 5120.000, 4165.500, 3211.000, -954.500 // vs silver armor nulifier body shot (560 * (1 + 0.025 + 0.1 + 0.05 + 0.21) * 1.25) - 15 = 954.5 HP, 13596078, 23953, 9AA6B8B0, 5120.000, 5120.000, 3879.498, -1240.502 // nulifier in the weakspot trough shield with repeater (560 * 0.7 * (1 + 0.025 + 0.1 + 0.05 + 0.21) * (1.4 + 0.7 - 0.25) * 1.25) - 15 = 1240.5025 Worth it for +0.7 weakspot Sniper rifles to shoot nulifier weakspot through its shield with * 0.7 repeaterdisruptor ammo vs synthetics and vs shieldgate
1.08 BUG Throw 6b Swift Detonation 30% combo detonation damage DOES NOTHING |
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To troll or not to pug, that's the question
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n7mith
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Mith0810
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Post by N7Mith on Jun 16, 2017 11:59:11 GMT
HP, 12799828, 2563, 94EE3400, 5120.000, 4165.500, 3211.000, -954.500 // vs silver armor nulifier body shot (560 * (1 + 0.025 + 0.1 + 0.05 + 0.21) * 1.25) - 15 = 954.5 HP, 13596078, 23953, 9AA6B8B0, 5120.000, 5120.000, 3879.498, -1240.502 // nulifier in the weakspot trough shield with repeater (560 * 0.7 * (1 + 0.025 + 0.1 + 0.05 + 0.21) * (1.4 + 0.7 - 0.25) * 1.25) - 15 = 1240.5025 Worth it for +0.7 weakspot Sniper rifles to shoot nulifier weakspot through its shield with * 0.7 repeaterdisruptor ammo vs synthetics and vs shieldgate
1.08 BUG Throw 6b Swift Detonation 30% combo detonation damage DOES NOTHINGOf course it does nothing. They just changed it to have normal combodamage, and now you're expecting a rank 6 evo to buff it even further?!  But thanks for the intel, I guess my kineticist choices just got a little easier. |
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Post by peddroelm on Jun 16, 2017 12:39:38 GMT
lance and throw (and shockwave) detonators also get the expose damage bonus from pull and passive. (kineticist/adept)
kinteticist lift Pull detonations tests
HP, 23440546, 2171, 96186BA0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 496.000, -1024.000 // BE 640 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.3) = 1024
HP, 23440578, 32, 96636440, 1520.000, 1520.000, 496.000, -1024.000
HP, 23440578, 0, 97CDC130, 1520.000, 1520.000, 880.000, -640.000 // combo no debuffs
HP, 23440593, 15, 96186BA0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 1404.000, -116.000 // throw impact
HP, 23441062, 469, 96186BA0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 1172.000, -348.000 // throw enviro
lift pull
HP, 23502531, 61469, 993EFE60, 1600.000, 1600.000, 576.000, -1024.000
HP, 23502562, 31, 992C8420, 1600.000, 1600.000, 576.000, -1024.000 // BE
HP, 23502562, 0, 993EFE60, 1600.000, 1600.000, 730.000, -870.000 // lance also gets the *1.6
// fortification purge + combat damage gear no effect
HP, 24282765, 15, 96C6CE10, 1600.000, 1600.000, 1200.000, -400.000
SH, 24282765, 0, 8DEF0EC8, 1600.000, 1600.000, 960.000, -640.000 // 400 * 1.6
same with universal power mod booster
Fortification detonation damage cannot be improved with power damage ..
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unclemonster
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: unclemonster
Posts: 652 Likes: 1,029
inherit
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unclemonster
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by unclemonster on Jun 16, 2017 13:55:24 GMT
lance and throw (and shockwave) detonators also get the expose damage bonus from pull and passive. (kineticist/adept)kinteticist lift Pull detonations tests HP, 23440546, 2171, 96186BA0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 496.000, -1024.000 // BE 640 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.3) = 1024 HP, 23440578, 32, 96636440, 1520.000, 1520.000, 496.000, -1024.000 HP, 23440578, 0, 97CDC130, 1520.000, 1520.000, 880.000, -640.000 // combo no debuffs HP, 23440593, 15, 96186BA0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 1404.000, -116.000 // throw impact HP, 23441062, 469, 96186BA0, 1520.000, 1520.000, 1172.000, -348.000 // throw enviro lift pull HP, 23502531, 61469, 993EFE60, 1600.000, 1600.000, 576.000, -1024.000 HP, 23502562, 31, 992C8420, 1600.000, 1600.000, 576.000, -1024.000 // BE HP, 23502562, 0, 993EFE60, 1600.000, 1600.000, 730.000, -870.000 // lance also gets the *1.6 // fortification purge + combat damage gear no effect HP, 24282765, 15, 96C6CE10, 1600.000, 1600.000, 1200.000, -400.000 SH, 24282765, 0, 8DEF0EC8, 1600.000, 1600.000, 960.000, -640.000 // 400 * 1.6 same with universal power mod booster Fortification detonation damage cannot be improved with power damage .. Do you still get the expose debuff if you tap pull a yellow armor bar enemy? |
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