Wow... this is how the animations could have looked if Bioware/EA hadn't outsourced

May 4, 2017 16:20:45 GMT henkiedepost said:

May 4, 2017 12:31:24 GMT R1Outcast said:

To make an example, one of my other favorite developers, Paradox, is very active on their respective forums. They have weekly dev diaries for their games and listen closely to criticism and suggestions. In fact, some of my suggestions made it into their games, which is very nice. This all even though Hearts of Iron IV and Stellaris both met with a lot of criticism when they released. (The metacritic scores hide the outrage on the forums about mostly AI issues). They in response decided to postpone paid DLC (in the case of Stellaris) to do bugfixing and free stuff first. Those are the little things a developer can use to win trust back. I just hope Bioware silently does the same. Listening and improving. Proving me wrong. We shall see what they're going to do in the coming months. I just hope that they can get back on track for the inevitable ME:A2.

Oh, just to say how subjective everything is... I have never before dealt with Paradox, but as someone who is watching for information on definitive information on the state of Tyranny, both Paradox and Obsidian at the moment of writing are on my list of "your communication with fan base is terrible".

The burning issues with tyranny was the obvious cut out from its ending, immediately noted and commented upon back at release in November 2016. One month to date, there was a hint made that DLC may be coming. However, there is no pertinent information on the DLC content, and the ETA. Obviously, there is a speculation that it will flesh out the Act III, which makes it important to wait till DLC is released to buy the package. But if not... why wait?

While I realize that I am acting rationally in delaying a purchasing decision till any information is available, or the game ages and other games obviously take precedent, the absence of communication, as I mentioned, is really not in favor of that very Paradox you've just praised.

Sorry, I feel better now. Just funny how one guy's Best Developer Communications Nominee is in another guys' black book. I really was grinding my teeth reading Paradox FB minutes before I saw this high praise for their efforts to link with the fanbase.

As for animations, I felt like that Tal guy/gal needs a hug for his/her reel being misused like that. Too bad that the actual 'what really happened' never attracts the same attention that the sensational fabrications do.

May 4, 2017 17:36:08 GMT henkiedepost said:

May 4, 2017 17:11:40 GMT @carefull said:

Oh, just to say how subjective everything is... I have never before dealt with Paradox, but as someone who is watching for information on definitive information on the state of Tyranny, both Paradox and Obsidian at the moment of writing are on my list of "your communication with fan base is terrible".

The burning issues with tyranny was the obvious cut out from its ending, immediately noted and commented upon back at release in November 2016. One month to date, there was a hint made that DLC may be coming. However, there is no pertinent information on the DLC content, and the ETA.

While I realize that I am acting rationally in delaying a purchasing decision till any information is available, or the game ages and other games obviously take precedent, the absence of communication, as I mentioned, is really not in favor of that very Paradox you've just praised.

Sorry, I feel better now. I have never thought I'd meet another person who'd heard of Paradox and their games.

 

Oh wow. That's bad to hear. It indeed puts things into perspective. I haven't played Tyranny myself but the difference between my example and yours probably has to do with the fact that Paradox is only the publisher for Tyranny. So even though it still saddens me to hear that they aren't responsive over there I believe Obsidian (even though I like them as well because Fallout New Vegas) should bear the brunt of the blame. They should be the first line of communication because it is their game. Even though I agree that Paradox needs to fill in the gaps if Obsidian fails to do so. Hearts of Iron IV and Stellaris however are mainline games of Paradox. The answers we receive there are from the actual programmers of those games, not from marketing and communication whom you'd see at merely published games. Those same programmers are obviously absent from games like Tyranny because there the Obsidian programmers should step up and communicate. Paradox programmers and leads however, like Wizz and Podcat, are generally very nice and passionate people to talk with and I really like how these dev diaries often turn into a fruitful base for discussions and suggestions. The problem is however that I think fitting these discussions into a game with a fanbase the size of Mass Effect is difficult to make it work. Like you said yourself, Paradox really is a niché so their forums and games don't really attract the 'rage of the masses'. Now that their games are becoming more and more accesible and known however I also see that even those forums can nowaday turn into a hateful environment when the those masses take over. Especially the state of the forums around the release of both Stellaris and HoI IV was quite abysmal.  Given the fact that the ME fanbase is much bigger I simply don't know if it's possible to get a location were local and fruitful conversations are possible. On the other hand however, these forums are still quite small so this could theoretically be an adequate location.

Anyway, I just hope that the developers start to communicate a little more again. It helps showing the human side of the company which in turn helps winning back trust. 

My feeling is that every developer starts with this rosy picture of communicating with the fans, listening to the feedback and making everyone happy. But once they get the taste of the insipid hatred, they start looking into alternative ways that do not involve things like people sending threats to the programmers' family members (as had happened with BioWARE's SWTOR when balancing of the classes was not up to snuff for some players).

What I see though with BioWARE because I played their games for almost twenty years & also had a long break, that over time, the feedback gets amalgamated and integrated into the follow up games. Some of those changes then cause backlash despite being "wanted" features. Some of those changes simply cannot be loved by everyone, because Bio is not niche, and attracts a wide range of players, all of whom pull the blanket their way. The closest they been in bed with fans was with NWN1, when they actually were going in the direction of almost a game share with fans. That direction just never worked out, because of how insanely complex it becomes to maintain such a relationship.

BioWARE tries to push forward with new techniques for material delivery, and it is not a shiny gem every game (*groan* NWN1), but they eventually improve on going forward basis. And if we shout down something they have tried and it was not stellar to begin with, and they listen to us, the effect may be dire. At NWN1 release, if I had electronic media, I'd also be watching the videos making harsh statements about 3D graphics vs isometric. But it was the right thing to do in the long run, and selling the game as it were provided capital to do better going forward. 

The social media is volatile, and if BioWARE choses partial engagement to protect their staff, it is the right choice for the size of the company. At some point if everything you do is scrutinized and subjected to scorching criticism, in the name of "love", you'll just get paralyzed.

Social media is a powerful proof that the old adage "from love to hatred is only one step" is remarkably accurate.

Yes, it might not be as awesome, as remaking a title you want to see "polished up" ad nausea, but it is certainly their prerogative to use the feedback that way. On the going forward basis & releasing a decent, solid product every time.

And yes, I call the product solid because on my PC it is not bugged at all. I assume it's multi-platforming issues that cause actual game-breaking issues and certain glitches like creature positioning. And you know? Props to Bio again for multiplatforming to sell games, rather than sell consoles and a game to go with it. It is the only approach where the customer is not duped, and the company takes the fall for every little thing that is out of sorts on someone's specific combo of hardware and software.

BioWARE does not have to win back my trust. It has it. I learned my lesson with NWN1. I know what they do and how and I guess as to why. Since then each game they produced was what I wanted to play with some stuff I did not like, but other people probably did or they corrected for it.

I let them do their job, and let them entertain me. I also do not exclude mods from equation.