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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate
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Post by suikoden on May 4, 2017 7:40:11 GMT
www.develop-online.net/interview/heard-about-mass-effect-andromeda/0231978"With Andromeda, the team took music interactivity to ‘the next level’ by developing a highly flexible system that facilitates a hybrid of traditional music scripting with a completely parametric and contextual procedural system. Voillot explains: “It detects you’re in combat, aggregating the total ‘CombatStress’ and transitioning to the correct intensity music. On top are ‘Combat Overlays’ triggered and layered in sync reflecting e.g. a headshot kill. These mix perfectly with ‘Ambient Overlays’ when the action dissipates and you resume exploring. When the player enters conversation, we auto-switch to the ‘Conversation Mood System’, which uses the writing tools to pick a conversation ‘Mood’– line-by-line if needed. “The great thing is we got the writing team to help set this up as they knew the context best. So that’s the procedural system – but at any point we can override it with the ‘Scripted’ system - more akin to what we’ve done previously.” Sounds like a very procedural system was in place - while the trilogy appears to have more scripted audio in place for specific scenes... Or the writing team might have botched this part of the game as well. Interesting article.
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kumazan
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 772 Likes: 1,553
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kumazan on May 4, 2017 8:07:10 GMT
Scrap that Foley system. It's BAD.
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bizantura
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 407 Likes: 411
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by bizantura on May 4, 2017 8:19:45 GMT
It seems a lot of nifty new things were placed in MEA but did not trigger as they were supposed to. Nothing could have redeemed the bad writing but none the less, good animations and timely ambient sounds would have done MEA a wonder of good and made it a very decent shooter.
That is where I think this young Bioware team wants to end, make good shooters with the known Bioware romance specialty flavor added, not RPG's and end up with a new base being the online crowd. I think it is very telling the new IP is not RPG. If anything Bioware seems tired of their old base and searching for a less demanding different one.
If the next Dragon Age installment goes the same route I take it as confirmed all dough I do not hope so. I am not into RPG's the likes of Divinity original sin or Pillars of Eternity.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 4, 2017 18:50:45 GMT
www.develop-online.net/interview/heard-about-mass-effect-andromeda/0231978"With Andromeda, the team took music interactivity to ‘the next level’ by developing a highly flexible system that facilitates a hybrid of traditional music scripting with a completely parametric and contextual procedural system. Voillot explains: “It detects you’re in combat, aggregating the total ‘CombatStress’ and transitioning to the correct intensity music. On top are ‘Combat Overlays’ triggered and layered in sync reflecting e.g. a headshot kill. These mix perfectly with ‘Ambient Overlays’ when the action dissipates and you resume exploring. When the player enters conversation, we auto-switch to the ‘Conversation Mood System’, which uses the writing tools to pick a conversation ‘Mood’– line-by-line if needed. “The great thing is we got the writing team to help set this up as they knew the context best. So that’s the procedural system – but at any point we can override it with the ‘Scripted’ system - more akin to what we’ve done previously.” Sounds like a very procedural system was in place - while the trilogy appears to have more scripted audio in place for specific scenes... Or the writing team might have botched this part of the game as well. Interesting article. "With Andromeda, the team took music interactivity to ‘the next level’ by developing a highly flexible system that facilitates a hybrid of traditional music scripting with a completely parametric and contextual procedural system..." F*** you. I can already tell you're full of shit and talking PR garbage to cover up the fact that not enough time was properly spent on getting it right. WREX! Send me a dozen Krogan with flamethrowers and Grunt as their commando leader. We have to do some righteous cleansing at EA HQ.
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Pyrceval78
N3
Burninating the thatched roof cottages.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Pyrceval78
Posts: 977 Likes: 3,412
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Burninating the thatched roof cottages.
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pyrceval78
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Pyrceval78 on May 4, 2017 18:55:42 GMT
There was music?
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Post by AnDromedary on May 4, 2017 19:08:37 GMT
Well, either this system did not work or it has some serious faults. Music was one of the weaker points of the game. I am not sure if it didn't trigger or if the system just chose weird parameters.
I think the upshot should be that the team either has to improve what they got so far, bugfix it (if that was the problem) or otherwise scrap the procedural music handling and return to the traditional track based system where conversations and cinematics have the appropriate music added by hand.
I mean, I am really curious what went wrong. These procedural systems with layering as they describe them can work rather well. I have been playing the Star Citizen Alpha for example and they use a similar way to handle music transitions for different moods and situations. Only there, I actually notice it. When I shoot down a pirate, the music will play a little victory theme, when things get rough and my ship is damaged, the music will become more intense and if I go back to exploring, it will simmer down. It's actually really nice. Only in ME:A it clearly did not work as intended or was constructed badly since most of the time, when I did notice music, I noticed it either being weird or absent.
Seems the sound guys of BW Montreal have their work cut out for them.
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MarilynRobert
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 986 Likes: 2,148
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robmar
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by MarilynRobert on May 4, 2017 20:31:10 GMT
The system wasn't working then because I heard very little music.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 4, 2017 23:28:19 GMT
www.develop-online.net/interview/heard-about-mass-effect-andromeda/0231978"With Andromeda, the team took music interactivity to ‘the next level’ by developing a highly flexible system that facilitates a hybrid of traditional music scripting with a completely parametric and contextual procedural system. Voillot explains: “It detects you’re in combat, aggregating the total ‘CombatStress’ and transitioning to the correct intensity music. On top are ‘Combat Overlays’ triggered and layered in sync reflecting e.g. a headshot kill. These mix perfectly with ‘Ambient Overlays’ when the action dissipates and you resume exploring. When the player enters conversation, we auto-switch to the ‘Conversation Mood System’, which uses the writing tools to pick a conversation ‘Mood’– line-by-line if needed. “The great thing is we got the writing team to help set this up as they knew the context best. So that’s the procedural system – but at any point we can override it with the ‘Scripted’ system - more akin to what we’ve done previously.” Sounds like a very procedural system was in place - while the trilogy appears to have more scripted audio in place for specific scenes... Or the writing team might have botched this part of the game as well. Interesting article. I love this stuff. Thank you.
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Reorte
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 172 Likes: 144
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reorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Reorte on May 4, 2017 23:53:57 GMT
Not heard a game that's nicely adjusted the music to the action really well since TIE Fighter.
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kino
N4
The path up and down are one and the same.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: kinom001
Posts: 2,067 Likes: 4,060
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The path up and down are one and the same.
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kino
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by kino on May 5, 2017 0:00:45 GMT
Given the overall size of the game I can see why they went from scripted to procedural music for most of it. I think that some scenes require scripted music, though, so hopefully they won't phase that out completely in the future.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 5, 2017 2:51:02 GMT
Given the overall size of the game I can see why they went from scripted to procedural music for most of it. I think that some scenes require scripted music, though, so hopefully they won't phase that out completely in the future. Why bother then? It just cheapens the overall experience without it. It's what I've come to expect from Bioware. New or old.
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shaqfu
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 884 Likes: 2,892
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shaqfu
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by shaqfu on May 5, 2017 3:21:20 GMT
So my big take away, don't have your rookie teams try to put together new systems. Audio in this game pretty much had 2 settings, combat and silence.
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bizantura
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 407 Likes: 411
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Nov 28, 2024 18:40:22 GMT
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bizantura
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bizantura
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by bizantura on May 5, 2017 10:58:01 GMT
I am not shy criticizing Bioware but the Devil often resides in the smallest details. I think it is commendable what Bioware implemented. This innovation could very well mean the difference between big game worlds and countless hours of gameplay or a 20 to 25-hour roundup overall. I rather have my 100 to 130-hours worth.
So no, I rather feel sorry for this young Bioware team because It could easily have happened to a seasoned team who would have implemented the same features. I hope they can find the reason so much triggering of nifty features did not work and iron these bugs out. On the other hand, I also hope they won't go 100% procedural and keep important scenes scripted.
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Post by ayenari on May 5, 2017 11:14:44 GMT
Given the overall size of the game I can see why they went from scripted to procedural music for most of it. I think that some scenes require scripted music, though, so hopefully they won't phase that out completely in the future. Id rather have constant ambient music than total silence for lengthy stretches of time if this is the alternative. Both frostbite games by Bioware have had this issue so far. The actual music when it plays isn't bad. It just isn't there far too often. Thankfully there's third party sci-fi music on e.g spotify like the Stellaris soundtrack I can play and control with keyboard shortcuts, so at least there's that.
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linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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asblinkenski
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 5, 2017 12:16:21 GMT
"We used the same audio-music system as in Inquistion but we're going to pretend it's something novel for this interview just to sound like we gave a damn."
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2017 12:36:51 GMT
I'm generally the type of guy who was overall positive towards ME:A however I do agree here with the general consensus that music was lacking and I'm not even referring to the quality of the soundtrack but how instead we listen very little of it. I'd prefer if they just return to the old scripted system for music selection. I get they want to go for a more nuanced experience but it's not working as really I can barely hear and not even remember most of ME:A soundtracks.
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n7ltrobbiesann7
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
XBL Gamertag: N7LtRobbiesanN7
PSN: N7LtRobbiesanN7
Posts: 284 Likes: 323
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n7ltrobbiesann7
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
N7LtRobbiesanN7
N7LtRobbiesanN7
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Post by n7ltrobbiesann7 on May 5, 2017 15:43:53 GMT
I'm generally the type of guy who was overall positive towards ME:A however I do agree here with the general consensus that music was lacking and I'm not even referring to the quality of the soundtrack but how instead we listen very little of it. I'd prefer if they just return to the old scripted system for music selection. I get they want to go for a more nuanced experience but it's not working as really I can barely hear and not even remember most of ME:A soundtracks. This. I like the music when it is playing, it just doesn't seem to trigger as much as it should. Plenty of roaming time without the ambient music, and it does make a difference.
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