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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 11, 2017 9:31:38 GMT
I still dream of DA or ME game where the protagonist isn't human. By this I mean you HAVE to play a Qunari or a Turian. A personal small scope story like Hawke only it's not a human story.
I want to get immersed in a totally different life and mindset.
I realize this only makes sense as a spin-off. But so be it.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Oct 11, 2017 10:45:24 GMT
I value origins over race choice, it's the story of the dwarven noble and the city elf that I loved, not fact that one was short and the other pointy eared.
So I'd be okay with less race options if it meant more background/origin content. But I'd be annoyed if they announced both a single set race and background.
Whatever the case, for Andraste's sake, please no in medias res beginning.
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agentchieftain
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Post by agentchieftain on Oct 11, 2017 11:01:36 GMT
The thing that kind of upset me was that there was only one background per race. And, as someone who's only ever played human characters in any Dragon Age, it also annoys me that every playable human is linked to a noble house. Inquisition's description mentions humans as the most politically and culturally diverse race in Thedas. There are so many other potential origins for a human protagonist, especially considering we're headed to Tevinter, which is pretty much the place that is most surrounded by other foreign nations. Barbarians (Avaar) Qunari Viddathari, Tevinter Soperati/Slaves, Anderfel warriors (perhaps even former Wardens)
So much potential. And I'm going to be really upset if the human option is just another noble.
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theascendent
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Post by theascendent on Oct 11, 2017 12:24:38 GMT
I think that the optimal choice will be human, but we can choose our background and who we were before becoming the PC. An Antivan Crow, Qunari spy, Magister Apprentice, Anders mercenary, Fog Warrior from Seheron, etc. Nothing against the other races, but considering that Tevinter was the very first human nation and its history is so intertwined with the history of mankind why not make that a central theme. If Origins was about the Wardens and the Blights, 2 about the nature of power and the power of stories, Inquisition about faith and the meaning of it, 4 should be about humanity, what it means to us and how we reconcile with our complex history and divergent cultures. We should not of course ignore the other races and cultures of Thedas, but contrast our historical interactions with them and how they perceive us through their eyes via the PC and their companions.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Oct 11, 2017 12:32:04 GMT
I would've liked to have run into the Valo-Kas, your Carta buddies/rivals, your Auntie Trevelyan, a member of your clan, etc. over the course of the story. Like at the end of a series of war table missions, maybe? That would've made the Inquisitor feel a little more fleshed out, I think. Really I just want to meet Shokrakar. I hope DA4's protagonist gets something like that, if they don't do full on origins. I certainly think it would be an improvement if they could draw origins into the main story arcs so that while those playing that origin would get something extra from the encounter everyone else would also meet them. I would have preferred Hawen's clan to be the Lavellans rather than relegating them to some faceless set of war table quests.
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Post by pinkjellybeans on Oct 11, 2017 13:00:30 GMT
I think that the optimal choice will be human, but we can choose our background and who we were before becoming the PC. An Antivan Crow, Qunari spy, Magister Apprentice, Anders mercenary, Fog Warrior from Seheron, etc. Nothing against the other races, but considering that Tevinter was the very first human nation and its history is so intertwined with the history of mankind why not make that a central theme. If Origins was about the Wardens and the Blights, 2 about the nature of power and the power of stories, Inquisition about faith and the meaning of it, 4 should be about humanity, what it means to us and how we reconcile with our complex history and divergent cultures. We should not of course ignore the other races and cultures of Thedas, but contrast our historical interactions with them and how they perceive us through their eyes via the PC and their companions. I think it would be much easier to pull something like that off. Being a qunari, elf and dwarf in Tevinter definitely sounds interesting, there's so many possibilities because each of those races are treated very differently there, but honestly, I don't think Bioware will manage to pull it off in a way that will feel satisfying. That's my only concern. What I don't want is having multiple races for the hell of it like DAI. I want each race to result in a different playthrough. If there will be tensions between elves and qunari and humans, then playing these different races should have an impact on how you go through the story, otherwise what is the point? I wanted to play as a qunari in DAI, and even started a playthrough, but as soon as I realized that the game was not any different from playing as a human (apart from a few different dialogue lines), I just lost interest.
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mattjamho
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Post by mattjamho on Oct 11, 2017 14:33:56 GMT
I think it would be much easier to pull something like that off. Being a qunari, elf and dwarf in Tevinter definitely sounds interesting, there's so many possibilities because each of those races are treated very differently there, but honestly, I don't think Bioware will manage to pull it off in a way that will feel satisfying. That's my only concern. What I don't want is having multiple races for the hell of it like DAI. I want each race to result in a different playthrough. If there will be tensions between elves and qunari and humans, then playing these different races should have an impact on how you go through the story, otherwise what is the point? I wanted to play as a qunari in DAI, and even started a playthrough, but as soon as I realized that the game was not any different from playing as a human (apart from a few different dialogue lines), I just lost interest. Agreed. I can understand in Inquisition that people respected the Inquisitor regardless of race because of their title and power, although I still take issue with it, especially with elves, and particularly with Qunari. Choosing anything but human didn't really make sense to me, and when you do play one of the other races, it's on no consequence. If Bioware do multiple races again, I want a lot more reaction from it. And I honestly can't see a Qunari making a return as a race option, I don't see them walking around the streets of Minrathous without being constantly accosted, even physically attacked. Imagine a Tevinter mage walking around Par Vollen.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Oct 11, 2017 14:34:35 GMT
I think that the optimal choice will be human, but we can choose our background and who we were before becoming the PC. An Antivan Crow, Qunari spy, Magister Apprentice, Anders mercenary, Fog Warrior from Seheron, etc. Nothing against the other races, but considering that Tevinter was the very first human nation and its history is so intertwined with the history of mankind why not make that a central theme. If Origins was about the Wardens and the Blights, 2 about the nature of power and the power of stories, Inquisition about faith and the meaning of it, 4 should be about humanity, what it means to us and how we reconcile with our complex history and divergent cultures. We should not of course ignore the other races and cultures of Thedas, but contrast our historical interactions with them and how they perceive us through their eyes via the PC and their companions. I think it would be much easier to pull something like that off. Being a qunari, elf and dwarf in Tevinter definitely sounds interesting, there's so many possibilities because each of those races are treated very differently there, but honestly, I don't think Bioware will manage to pull it off in a way that will feel satisfying. That's my only concern. What I don't want is having multiple races for the hell of it like DAI. I want each race to result in a different playthrough. If there will be tensions between elves and qunari and humans, then playing these different races should have an impact on how you go through the story, otherwise what is the point? I wanted to play as a qunari in DAI, and even started a playthrough, but as soon as I realized that the game was not any different from playing as a human (apart from a few different dialogue lines), I just lost interest. Yeah I played Inquisition once as an Elf, never really made sense for me. A Dalish Elf helping out the religion that actively oppresses them and the Empire that destroyed their nation? Yeah that makes total sense!
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Ser Barksalot - Hiatus
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Post by shechinah on Oct 11, 2017 15:18:25 GMT
If Bioware do multiple races again, I want a lot more reaction from it. And I honestly can't see a Qunari making a return as a race option, I don't see them walking around the streets of Minrathous without being constantly accosted, even physically attacked. Imagine a Tevinter mage walking around Par Vollen. There are qunari slaves in the Tevinter Imperium.
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Felya87
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Post by Felya87 on Oct 11, 2017 15:36:53 GMT
If it's a "one or the other" thing, I would always choose race over origin-with-unlikeable-family-forced-human-race as Hawke. The ideal would alway be different origin stories based on race as DAO. Plus, some time to get to actually like the actual family: as it was done in DA2 I had no way to feel even remotely attached to "random guy/gal who die but I must be sad because this unknow woman who claim to be my character mom say so".
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 11, 2017 15:39:33 GMT
If Bioware do multiple races again, I want a lot more reaction from it. And I honestly can't see a Qunari making a return as a race option, I don't see them walking around the streets of Minrathous without being constantly accosted, even physically attacked. Imagine a Tevinter mage walking around Par Vollen. Honestly, I'd love to see this kind of reactivity, and I actually think it's a point in favor of race selection. It's like in VtMB, if you choose to play a Nosferatu, you can't bump into random NPCs in the street because you're so monstrous that they'll scream and run away and net you a Masquerade violation. When you talk to plot-important NPCs, they'll constantly remark on your appearance - they think you're a burn victim or deathly ill or something. At least two people have a heart attack and die. Not that I don't think a qunari could walk around Minrathous mostly unaccosted - there are slaves, and I'm sure they'd come up with some special snowflake diplomatic immunity thing for the PC like they always do (see: Warden, mage Hawke, Herald). But specific encounters or reactions for a qunari/elf/dwarf/soporatus would be interesting.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 11, 2017 16:34:52 GMT
Maybe all DA4 PCs could simply be presented as slaves to some NPC. That covers most of the reaction issues.
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midnightwolf
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
XBL Gamertag: BlackSassyWolf
Posts: 947 Likes: 1,231
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Post by midnightwolf on Oct 11, 2017 21:08:27 GMT
Whatever they do it'll never be as good as the Origins backgrounds. And the PC will never have as much/more personality than Hawke. Who is the Maker of the games as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2017 21:37:58 GMT
Whatever they do it'll never be as good as the Origins backgrounds. And the PC will never have as much/more personality than Hawke. Who is the Maker of the games as far as I'm concerned. Well, SWTOR did more, longer and better class stories than the origins, with some of the class personalities at least as bright as Hawke's. And eleven playable races.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mattjamho on Oct 11, 2017 21:44:40 GMT
If Bioware do multiple races again, I want a lot more reaction from it. And I honestly can't see a Qunari making a return as a race option, I don't see them walking around the streets of Minrathous without being constantly accosted, even physically attacked. Imagine a Tevinter mage walking around Par Vollen. Honestly, I'd love to see this kind of reactivity, and I actually think it's a point in favor of race selection. It's like in VtMB, if you choose to play a Nosferatu, you can't bump into random NPCs in the street because you're so monstrous that they'll scream and run away and net you a Masquerade violation. When you talk to plot-important NPCs, they'll constantly remark on your appearance - they think you're a burn victim or deathly ill or something. At least two people have a heart attack and die. Not that I don't think a qunari could walk around Minrathous mostly unaccosted - there are slaves, and I'm sure they'd come up with some special snowflake diplomatic immunity thing for the PC like they always do (see: Warden, mage Hawke, Herald). But specific encounters or reactions for a qunari/elf/dwarf/soporatus would be interesting. Oh definitely it would be amazing! But, if they can't have that sort of reactivity, it really spoils playing the race for me and kinda sucks me out of the experience. As I've said before, if they can't do it right, I'd rather they not do it at all.
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Post by mattjamho on Oct 11, 2017 21:56:51 GMT
If Bioware do multiple races again, I want a lot more reaction from it. And I honestly can't see a Qunari making a return as a race option, I don't see them walking around the streets of Minrathous without being constantly accosted, even physically attacked. Imagine a Tevinter mage walking around Par Vollen. There are qunari slaves in the Tevinter Imperium. I imagine they're very rare, and viewed with a hell of a lot of suspicion, not only for their race, but that they could be spies for the Qun. Of course, I bet they bring a lot of money on the slave market, I bet it'd be a status symbol for a Magister to own a Qunari. I'm sure they'd be very scarce regardless. And again, unless they include real reaction to playing one, I'd rather not.
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Post by shechinah on Oct 11, 2017 22:20:38 GMT
To me, it differs. I prefer playable races but I'm not opposed to a protagonist that can only be human. I think what matters to me is which would be interesting to experience the story with? I think it would be best to provide an example to show what I mean by this:
Let's say that there's a revelation further down the line that reveals that the qunari originated from dragons. To whom would this revelation have the greatest impact? Who would be most affected by this discovery? A human protagonist or a qunari protagonist?
Human Protagonist: "The qunari... descend from dragons?" Qunari Protagonist: "I... descend from dragons?"
Now let's say that there's a revelation about how the elves originated from spirits. I'd find it much more interesting to imagine and roleplay how an elf would react to and cope with that discovery than I would a human. Therefore, I feel something would be lost were I only able to experience these discoveries from the perspective of a human character.
To go on perhaps unnecessarily, I don't feel that DA4 would be the time for a human-only protagonist. Inquisition and Trespasser has built its story up to be about Solas and really, the past of the elves. I don't expect the whole game to focus on this but I do expect it to be important to the story. I'd find it very disappointing if I was unable to experience that part of story from the perspective of an elf. For that reason, I'd prefer a slave origin that allows the player the option to play as, at least, either an elf or a qunari. This origin as a slave would additionally provide a good way to explore the Tevinter Imperium its lowest to its highest.
I'm not opposed to experiencing the Tevinter Imperium from the perspective of a human noble. In fact, I'd find it quite interesting but I'd prefer it if that story focuses only on the life and politics of a noble house in Tevinter.
Note: I'm splitting my post to make it more manageable for me.
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midnightwolf
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
XBL Gamertag: BlackSassyWolf
Posts: 947 Likes: 1,231
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Post by midnightwolf on Oct 11, 2017 23:51:08 GMT
Whatever they do it'll never be as good as the Origins backgrounds. And the PC will never have as much/more personality than Hawke. Who is the Maker of the games as far as I'm concerned. Well, SWTOR did more, longer and better class stories than the origins, with some of the class personalities at least as bright as Hawke's. And eleven playable races. I shall have to take you're word for that, since I've never played it. But speaking strictly about Dragon age: Hawke was the best, I think.
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formerfiend
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
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Post by formerfiend on Oct 12, 2017 0:19:18 GMT
Ultimately I'm always going to pick Race Choice even if the overall quality of the story telling suffers a bit.
And the reason for that is that I take issue with human exceptionalism in sci-fi & fantasy.
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 12, 2017 0:27:42 GMT
And the reason for that is that I take issue with human exceptionalism in sci-fi & fantasy. I think this is what bothers me. Humans always being the center of the universe in settings where there are other sapient races annoys the shit out of me on principle. In worlds where dwarves and turians and qunari and quarians have built societies and developed religions and culture, what makes humans so exceptional? Nothing. But writers always want to insist that humans' "general-ness" makes them super unique and special.
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formerfiend
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
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Post by formerfiend on Oct 12, 2017 0:47:19 GMT
I don't even mind playing as humans when that's an option. My Warden was a human because I found the Cousland story to be the most compelling. But that doesn't impose human superiority when I could have possibly played as a dwarf or an elf and that character would have been just as capable.
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Biodron
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Post by Biodron on Oct 12, 2017 3:38:14 GMT
And the reason for that is that I take issue with human exceptionalism in sci-fi & fantasy. I think this is what bothers me. Humans always being the center of the universe in settings where there are other sapient races annoys the shit out of me on principle. In worlds where dwarves and turians and qunari and quarians have built societies and developed religions and culture, what makes humans so exceptional? Nothing. But writers always want to insist that humans' "general-ness" makes them super unique and special. I think they choose them to be the default because humans are more easy relate to for most of the players.
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 12, 2017 4:21:16 GMT
I think this is what bothers me. Humans always being the center of the universe in settings where there are other sapient races annoys the shit out of me on principle. In worlds where dwarves and turians and qunari and quarians have built societies and developed religions and culture, what makes humans so exceptional? Nothing. But writers always want to insist that humans' "general-ness" makes them super unique and special. I think they choose them to be the default because humans are more easy relate to for most of the players. Sure, but I still think it's lazy writing. There's nothing new or innovative about writing humans as The Best Most Prominent and Most Average™.
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Post by Biodron on Oct 12, 2017 5:03:58 GMT
I think they choose them to be the default because humans are more easy relate to for most of the players. Sure, but I still think it's lazy writing. There's nothing new or innovative about writing humans as The Best Most Prominent and Most Average™. Maybe it is or maybe they are afraid to innovate and prefer to go with something that most of the player would like, or at least more than play with only elf/dwarf/qunari. I honestly would like if the PC has one race only, in my opinion it doesn't have to be human, if this game is in tevinter it could be elf or qunari, and make the dialogues, history and quest to match that race and not only few dialogue like in DAI but i don't think that would happend and not because of the lacks of ideas but the preference for the human race that most of the players has.
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formerfiend
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
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Post by formerfiend on Oct 12, 2017 6:44:40 GMT
I've always felt the notion that humans are more easy to relate to in fantasy settings to be a false paradigm. We like to think that the humans of five hundred or a thousand or two thousand years ago were just the same as humans today, but they weren't. They had wholly different values and perspectives than the people of today do because they were shaped by a different culture.
Obviously most fantasy isn't set in an actual, historical period of the real world and only draws influence from it, but for the most part we're still talking about settings were public education and mass media don't exist, where modern medicine and industrialized food production don't exist, where the concept of democracy is the fevered dream of a madman, where most people are conditioned inside a single religion and heresy is still a punishable offense, where magic and monsters are actual things that exist and not just folklore to explain social anxieties, so on so forth etc.
I would like to think that if I can relate to a human living in those conditions, that if I can put myself into the mindset of a human living in that setting, then I can do the same for a dwarf, elf, or orc without expending too much more effort.
Dragon age mitigates this a bit compared to most fantasy by use of it's Joss Whedon influence in terms of dialogue and characterization to cast a lot of the characters in a more modern light, but they kind of extend that to everyone, not just the humans.
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