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Post by davesin on Jan 27, 2018 17:46:01 GMT
Try to play the game again and do decisions based on what do you think is best at the moment. Or roleplay certain type of character. Overthinking is not fun (and if you don't play it, you probably miss some details and context of the situation). At worst, you can always change your decisions in the Keep. I recruit the Templars. Lore-wise, it makes sense: The Breach is a Fade tear, just one on a huge scale. There are ways to mend rifts in the Fade, We know demons can do it, and we know templars can do it. Thus having them on my side made sense. How were the mages supposed to help? Drop magic on the Anchor like filling a bucket with water? Didn't make much sense to me. I place Gaspard alone on the throne. I would have liked the idea of making him ally with Briala, but they can only work together through blackmail, and that's not stable. Otherwise, Celene is incompetent, and Briala isn't important. The mages have many anti-magic spells and know more about the Fade than the Templars. The Templars are taught to deny magic (unlike mages, who might not specialize in anti-magic spells) and, to quote Solas, "prevent the Fade to gain a foothold" - that sounds like something that might be done with Breach as well. Plan with mages is that they would charge up the Anchor... which might have unexpected results. It's not something that has been ever tried.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2018 17:53:03 GMT
Try to play the game again and do decisions based on what do you think is best at the moment. Or roleplay certain type of character. Overthinking is not fun (and if you don't play it, you probably miss some details and context of the situation). At worst, you can always change your decisions in the Keep. The mages have many anti-magic spells and know more about the Fade than the Templars. The Templars are taught to deny magic (unlike mages, who might not specialize in anti-magic spells) and, to quote Solas, "prevent the Fade to gain a foothold" - that sounds like something that might be done with Breach as well. Plan with mages is that they would charge up the Anchor... which might have unexpected results. It's not something that has been ever tried. I suppose every mage learned about every school, only not specializes in every. This not means, they don't know anything about it. And probably the anti-magic spells important part of the studies in the Circle. The point is the mages just as good at the anti-magical abilities, as the Templars, only the Chantry doesn't trust them. And the Inquisitor has reason to go for them. (Even Cassandra recommends that.)
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Post by davesin on Jan 27, 2018 18:21:55 GMT
Try to play the game again and do decisions based on what do you think is best at the moment. Or roleplay certain type of character. Overthinking is not fun (and if you don't play it, you probably miss some details and context of the situation). At worst, you can always change your decisions in the Keep. The Templars are taught to deny magic (unlike mages, who might not specialize in anti-magic spells) and, to quote Solas, "prevent the Fade to gain a foothold" - that sounds like something that might be done with Breach as well. Plan with mages is that they would charge up the Anchor... which might have unexpected results. It's not something that has been ever tried. I suppose every mage learned about every school, only not specializes in every. This not means, they don't know anything about it. And probably the anti-magic spells important part of the studies in the Circle. The point is the mages just as good at the anti-magical abilities, as the Templars, only the Chantry doesn't trust them. And the Inquisitor has reason to go for them. (Even Cassandra recommends that.) That's just an assumption. We don't know what kind of training mages go through (there is only one goal - learn how to not get possessed. That can be done in many ways). The only canon example of mage using anti-magic ability is in Masked Empire, all other mages in games and books just shoot fireballs and lighting at stuff. On the other hand, we could see Meredith stopping a Sarebass from killing Hawke and co., templars (almost or mostly) annihilating Kirkwall's Circle and read about Evangeline saving Justinia V. from a mage. Using Templars and their specialized abilities to seal the Breach sounds like more reliable method than something a mage might theoretically know something about.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 27, 2018 18:30:23 GMT
Wait a second. Magic-neutralizing mage spells have been available in every DA game.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2018 18:32:38 GMT
I suppose every mage learned about every school, only not specializes in every. This not means, they don't know anything about it. And probably the anti-magic spells important part of the studies in the Circle. The point is the mages just as good at the anti-magical abilities, as the Templars, only the Chantry doesn't trust them. And the Inquisitor has reason to go for them. (Even Cassandra recommends that.) That's just an assumption. We don't know what kind of training mages go through (there is only one goal - learn how to not get possessed. That can be done in many ways). The only canon example of mage using anti-magic ability is in Masked Empire, all other mages in games and books just shoot fireballs and lighting at stuff. On the other hand, we could see Meredith stopping a Sarebass from killing Hawke and co., templars (almost or mostly) annihilating Kirkwall's Circle and read about Evangeline saving Justinia V. from a mage. Using Templars and their specialized abilities to seal the Breach sounds like more reliable method than something a mage might theoretically know something about. Meredith cut the Saarebas head off. This can be effective, this is undeniable. The problem is, the rifts don't have heads. Hawke killed many Saarebas with magic. And pushed them back with magic. And you saw that the mages Haven was able to solve the problem, so it's proved. I don't think, that inside the Circle only one study exists: how to fear the demons... even if Vivienne's example proves this. There many better mages than her. The choice only depends on: the Inquisitor trusts the magic/mages or not, or trusts the Templars or not.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2018 18:34:01 GMT
Wait a second. Magic-neutralizing mage spells have been available in every DA game. Yes, runes, shields etc.
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Post by davesin on Jan 27, 2018 18:34:07 GMT
They are. But we don't know how well-know spell it is. And again, the idea for sealing the Breach with mages is to "make the Anchor more powerful at that one moment" - there's nothing about using anti-magic spells as far as I know.
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Post by davesin on Jan 27, 2018 18:37:12 GMT
That's just an assumption. We don't know what kind of training mages go through (there is only one goal - learn how to not get possessed. That can be done in many ways). The only canon example of mage using anti-magic ability is in Masked Empire, all other mages in games and books just shoot fireballs and lighting at stuff. On the other hand, we could see Meredith stopping a Sarebass from killing Hawke and co., templars (almost or mostly) annihilating Kirkwall's Circle and read about Evangeline saving Justinia V. from a mage. Using Templars and their specialized abilities to seal the Breach sounds like more reliable method than something a mage might theoretically know something about. Meredith cut the Saarebas head off. This can be effective, this is undeniable. The problem is, the rifts don't have heads. Hawke killed many Saarebas with magic. And pushed them back with magic. And you saw that the mages Haven was able to solve the problem, so it's proved. I don't think, that inside the Circle only one study exists: how to fear the demons... even if Vivienne's example proves this. There many better mages than her. The choice only depends on: the Inquisitor trusts the magic/mages or not, or trusts the Templars or not. Before that, she uses her abilities to prevent him to cast a spell. And it's not about cutting heads, it's about denying the mage their magic and preventing Fade from influencing the world (Solas own words. I don't think there's a better expert for that matter). And yes, you will seal the Breach no matter what, we know that. Some characters (and players) just might not be interested to doing it with mages.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2018 18:43:58 GMT
Meredith cut the Saarebas head off. This can be effective, this is undeniable. The problem is, the rifts don't have heads. Hawke killed many Saarebas with magic. And pushed them back with magic. And you saw that the mages Haven was able to solve the problem, so it's proved. I don't think, that inside the Circle only one study exists: how to fear the demons... even if Vivienne's example proves this. There many better mages than her. The choice only depends on: the Inquisitor trusts the magic/mages or not, or trusts the Templars or not. Before that, she uses her abilities to prevent him to cast a spell. And it's not about cutting heads, it's about denying the mage their magic and preventing Fade from influencing the world (Solas own words. I don't think there's a better expert for that matter). And yes, you will seal the Breach no matter what, we know that. Some characters (and players) just might not be interested to doing it with mages. Oh yes, I almost forget that: she stabbed in his back. This also an effective action to prevent the casting. Backstab is a very good anty-magic ability. Just as the stone fist... There are many anti-magic spells exists. Both can be effective, but the Templars not better on it, than the Mages. A mage knows that, Cassandra also knows that. Everyone knows that, including Cullen, just Cullen fears from the mages.
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Post by davesin on Jan 27, 2018 18:52:39 GMT
Before that, she uses her abilities to prevent him to cast a spell. And it's not about cutting heads, it's about denying the mage their magic and preventing Fade from influencing the world (Solas own words. I don't think there's a better expert for that matter). And yes, you will seal the Breach no matter what, we know that. Some characters (and players) just might not be interested to doing it with mages. Oh yes, I almost forget that: she stabbed in his back. This also an effective action to prevent the casting. Just as the stone fist... There are many anti-magic spells exists. Both can be effective, but the Templars not better on it, than the Mages. A mage knows that, Cassandra also knows that. Everyone knows that, including Cullen, just Cullen fears from the mages. Oh for goddamn sake... 11:04 She prevent him from casting spell, then stab him, then slice his head off. I don't deny there are no anti-magic spells, I'm just stating we didn't see any mage apart from possible Player Characters and Fellassan casting it. Ever. I don't remember my mages getting interrupted by such spell (on the other hand, they got their ass kicked from templars in Broken Circle because of bad timing). At any case, yes, if someone wants to get mages, well, go and complete In Hushed Whispers. There are good reasons for that. But there are also reasons to get templars as well.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2018 19:09:45 GMT
Oh yes, I almost forget that: she stabbed in his back. This also an effective action to prevent the casting. Just as the stone fist... There are many anti-magic spells exists. Both can be effective, but the Templars not better on it, than the Mages. A mage knows that, Cassandra also knows that. Everyone knows that, including Cullen, just Cullen fears from the mages. Oh for goddamn sake... 11:04
She prevent him from casting spell, then stab him, then slice his head off. I don't deny there are no anti-magic spells, I'm just stating we didn't see any mage apart from possible Player Characters and Fellassan casting it. Ever. I don't remember my mages getting interrupted by such spell (on the other hand, they got their ass kicked from templars in Broken Circle because of bad timing). At any case, yes, if someone wants to get mages, well, go and complete In Hushed Whispers. There are good reasons for that. But there are also reasons to get templars as well. I know... joking. Of course, the Templars save anti-magic spells, this is the essence of their existence, and this is was justify the using of the blood magic. Anti-Magic Ward, Anti-Magic Burst, Dispel Magic... etc. This is the spirit three.
And I agree, both groups are good, I said: only the mages are more experienced about the Fade, the Templars only able to block it mechanically.
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Post by davesin on Jan 27, 2018 19:20:42 GMT
Anti-Magic Ward, Anti-Magic Burst, Dispel Magic... etc. This is the spirit three.
And I agree, both groups are good, I said: only the mages are more experienced about the Fade, the Templars only able to block it mechanically. There is. I get it. There's just not a single line about using these spells for sealing the Breach (it's just about charging up the Anchor), while templars being able to weaken it is stated in-game. Of course, at the end, both factions have exactly same animations and we're just left with "Solas probably knows what he's doing with those guys"... I would rather not get into debate about Fade and mages knowing more about it. We all know what Solas did to so-called expert.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2018 19:27:31 GMT
Anti-Magic Ward, Anti-Magic Burst, Dispel Magic... etc. This is the spirit three.
And I agree, both groups are good, I said: only the mages are more experienced about the Fade, the Templars only able to block it mechanically. There is. I get it. There's just not a single line about using these spells for sealing the Breach (it's just about charging up the Anchor), while templars being able to weaken it is stated in-game. Of course, at the end, both factions have exactly same animations and we're just left with "Solas probably knows what he's doing with those guys"... I would rather not get into debate about Fade and mages knowing more about it. We all know what Solas did to so-called expert. He had a plan...
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Post by davesin on Jan 27, 2018 19:32:09 GMT
There is. I get it. There's just not a single line about using these spells for sealing the Breach (it's just about charging up the Anchor), while templars being able to weaken it is stated in-game. Of course, at the end, both factions have exactly same animations and we're just left with "Solas probably knows what he's doing with those guys"... I would rather not get into debate about Fade and mages knowing more about it. We all know what Solas did to so-called expert. He had a plan... ...this sentence sounds very scary after Trespasser. I guess we can be glad he didn't want to do any drastic changes in this case.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 27, 2018 19:40:58 GMT
He had a plan... ...this sentence sounds very scary after Trespasser. I guess we can be glad he didn't want to do any drastic changes in this case. I suppose he still has a plan. He's a very creative guy.
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Post by Schmooples on Jan 27, 2018 19:44:52 GMT
In Hushed Whispers - Free mages Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts - Reconcile Celene and Briala Here Lies the Abyss - Sacrifice Stroud Divine Election - Leliana Nothing wrong with these choices, you did everything right
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jan 27, 2018 19:50:08 GMT
I know you can seal the breach with Templars, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Even Cassandra thought mages would be more likely to be able to help.
I guess they couldn't let you go all the way through the Templar quest only to find it was completely pointless.
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Post by Rochrok on Jan 28, 2018 1:40:12 GMT
My canonical choices are the following: In Hushed Whispers - Free mages Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts - Reconcile Celene and Briala Here Lies the Abyss - Sacrifice Stroud Divine Election - Leliana The Templar quest is more exciting. Barris is better and more involved than Fiona Calpernia is better than that junkie guy Dorian and Cole's entrances into the organization makes more sense All these alone make the Templars a far better choice than the mages. I never cared for Wicked Eyes and Hearts. but I usually have Celene killed and Briala on a leash I also send Shroud to his death. Much better than what happens during a Calling. It feels like I'm sparing him and even worse fate. Divine- Vivienne. She's better for the mages, adds realistic drama and tension, and is the radical change the Chantry needs without going into la la land (like Leliana) Cassandra is a warrior so I let her have her Seekers. She's also a bit too much of the same old same old. Leliana always turns out crazy for me, but even nice I just dislike an "everything is happy cause I say so" ending.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 28, 2018 1:47:34 GMT
My canonical choices are the following:
In Hushed Whispers - Free mages Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts - Reconcile Celene and Briala Here Lies the Abyss - Sacrifice Stroud Divine Election - Leliana The Templar quest is more exciting. Barris is better and more involved than Fiona Calpernia is better than that junkie guy Dorian and Cole's entrances into the organization makes more sense
All these alone make the Templars a far better choice than the mages. I never cared for Wicked Eyes and Hearts. but I usually have Celene killed and Briala on a leash I also send Shroud to his death. Much better than what happens during a Calling. It feels like I'm sparing him and even worse fate. Divine- Vivienne. She's better for the mages, adds realistic drama and tension, and is the radical change the Chantry needs without going into la la land (like Leliana) Cassandra is a warrior so I let her have her Seekers. She's also a bit too much of the same old same old. Leliana always turns out crazy for me, but even nice I just dislike an "everything is happy cause I say so" ending. Vivienne the worst, in every viewpoint. Leliana's not a flower child: She knows the Game, but not in love with the Game. Vivienne more bloodthirsty than steeled Leliana. And Leliana and Cassandra help each other. Leliana's not crazy, but Vivienne's very dangerous. I would never give power such a person. Cassandra at least not corrupt. Vivienne very conservative, she doesn't want any change, except that she, a mage will be Divine. But she wants everything back just as before was: prison-Circles, Templars in lyrium lash, as puppets. And she's the worst propaganda against the mages: a mage, who imprisoned her fellows, because doesn't believe, they can live freely. And Cassandra cares about people, just as Leliana, Vivienne cares about herself. The Chantry doesn't need such a person.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 28, 2018 1:51:50 GMT
I know you can seal the breach with Templars, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Even Cassandra thought mages would be more likely to be able to help. I guess they couldn't let you go all the way through the Templar quest only to find it was completely pointless. I thought it made sense, personally. I'd be scared to put more magic near that thing.
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Post by Rochrok on Jan 28, 2018 2:59:50 GMT
The Templar quest is more exciting. Barris is better and more involved than Fiona Calpernia is better than that junkie guy Dorian and Cole's entrances into the organization makes more sense
All these alone make the Templars a far better choice than the mages. I never cared for Wicked Eyes and Hearts. but I usually have Celene killed and Briala on a leash I also send Shroud to his death. Much better than what happens during a Calling. It feels like I'm sparing him and even worse fate. Divine- Vivienne. She's better for the mages, adds realistic drama and tension, and is the radical change the Chantry needs without going into la la land (like Leliana) Cassandra is a warrior so I let her have her Seekers. She's also a bit too much of the same old same old. Leliana always turns out crazy for me, but even nice I just dislike an "everything is happy cause I say so" ending. Vivienne the worst, in every viewpoint. Leliana's not a flower child: She knows the Game, but not in love with the Game. Vivienne more bloodthirsty than steeled Leliana. And Leliana and Cassandra help each other. Leliana's not crazy, but Vivienne's very dangerous. I would never give power such a person. Cassandra at least not corrupt. Vivienne very conservative, she doesn't want any change, except that she, a mage will be Divine. But she wants everything back just as before was: prison-Circles, Templars in lyrium lash, as puppets. And she's the worst propaganda against the mages: a mage, who imprisoned her fellows, because doesn't believe, they can live freely. And Cassandra cares about people, just as Leliana, Vivienne cares about herself. The Chantry doesn't need such a person. Meh, Vivienne adds excitement and the mages that side with her end up more powerful as a result, something they need more than anything cause power ensures long-term freedom. I also think you take everything Vivienne says at face value. She's no monster, she does care about the mages but chooses not to wear rose-colored glasses about them. I think her approach is more pragmatic. Leliana is a bit too chaotic and only works cause the writers says it does. But to each his own. IMO, I wouldn't want mages anywhere near a giant magic hole in the sky that summons demons. Templars dispel magic, kills demons, crazed mages, and actually know how to form an army and fight if need be. Mages fling more magic at magical problems, summons demons, likely to go crazy, and hide when the poop hits the fan.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 28, 2018 3:02:27 GMT
I was fond of hardened Leliana as Divine, but opted for Inspired instead. I always ally with the mages and sacrifice Mustache. As for Briala, Celene and Gaspard, I love blackmailing those shits.
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Post by phoray on Jan 28, 2018 3:03:03 GMT
And what about Hawke vs. Stroud? Is it really a good idea to leave the Grey Warden behind? It seems to me that the Grey Wardens should have their leader survive so that he can guide them through whatever chaos is going on at their HQ. Exactly how would Hawke fulfill this role better than an actual Grey Warden leader? Both Hawke and Stroud/Loghain/Alistair are nobodies. There is a hierarchy to the Grey Wardens. What S/T/A are are Senior Wardens who didn't drink the Koolaid, so they'll be trusted to put out some orders right before riding to Weishaupt and making report to the REAL leaders. Additionally, considering the hazard of their work AND the calling being a 20-30 year thing, they will have a VERY clear system of replacement when it comes to one of their comrades dying. Either can die. It's not a "Hawke must die or the entire Grey Warden Order will fall apart."
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inherit
Friend of Red Jenny
90
0
18,890
vertigomez
5,281
August 2016
vertigomez
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 28, 2018 3:08:15 GMT
Do you get Leliana points if you go Briala + puppet Gaspard?
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2703
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2,011
Lazarillo
1,025
January 2017
lazarillo
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
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Post by Lazarillo on Jan 28, 2018 3:23:04 GMT
Do you get Leliana points if you go Briala + puppet Gaspard? Yes. Briala + Gaspard is Leliana +5, Cassandra -5, Vivienne -10. So practically speaking, it adds 10+ points Leliana's lead.
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