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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 11, 2018 6:37:11 GMT
I can just as easily say they changed the mechanic because it was a bad system and as a FYI don't play Call of Duty, the only way I play Mass Effect 1 is to break the overheating system by having pistols with dual cooldown mods. Just because you like it doesn't mean it was a system that every player of the first game liked and wanted to see return. As far as it being an inferior system I don't know because I don't live in the world of Mass Effect so I cannot use both types of weapons and know if the benefits and negatives of each system mean that one is better then the other. As a game player I prefer the thermal clip system for I don't run out of ammo unlike I did with dealing overheating with Mass Effect 1 especially if I was using shotguns or sniper riles. I don't see how it was meaningless, for they just gave the people that wouldn't stop complaining something they wanted, but it doesn't mean they stopped giving players that didn't like the overheating system what they want either. So both sides got what they wanted. I still don't understand why things are not allowed to change because "well documented" for if that is the only reason it seems to be hollow for then you are hamstringing what might be fun because they wrote a few words about it. Things change what professionals consider the absolute truth at that time are challenged and evolved to different things. Now this is based on quick google search of mine, but the reasoning behind cooldown mechanics and thermal mechanics seem to be about the same length so they went into just as much detail to define why one system was a benefit over the other. Okay then, using that logic, why not simply add flying purple space rhinos for Shepard and Co to ride on instead of the Mako? That would probably be more fun than using the Mako. Why not add Male Asari, and write it off as some Asari "evolving"? I am sure many players would consider that a fun addition. A setting must have rules, and consistency, otherwise there is no reason for anything and it's just a free for all playground to do whatever the fuck. Maybe that is fine for you, but not for me. Sure. Plenty of games have mounts, a purple space rhino sounds like fun. Sure with Male Asari as well since they were monogendered but portrayed as female if that is how someone perceives one I don't see that problem. Rules and consistency are needed, but holding them iron fast is just as bad as not having them too.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 11, 2018 6:56:39 GMT
I guess I remember something about how in some cycles the Reaper creation failed, which I think was what happened with the Protheans. However, I couldn't give a source for what I'm saying so maybe I'm not remembering correctly. EDI theorized that the Reapers failed to create a Prothean Reaper when we first see the human one. Not a bad theory since EDI is *ahem* part Reaper herself. At least, tech from Sovereign went into her creation.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 11, 2018 7:00:53 GMT
EDI theorized that the Reapers failed to create a Prothean Reaper when we first see the human one. Not a bad theory since EDI is *ahem* part Reaper herself. At least, tech from Sovereign went into her creation. Yeah, though in this case I think she was wrong. I think where she saw the Collectors as just the remnants after failing to create a Prothean Reaper, they were instead more like what Cerberus becomes in ME3: advanced husks that at first glance don't seem connected to the Reapers but allow them to study the cycle from the shadows. I wouldn't be surprised if after our cycle Cerberus would have been the Collectors of the next cycle like how the Heretics were going to be the new Keepers of the Citadel.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 9:34:43 GMT
Maybe I wrote in more in my head than I should have, but i always assumed the entire point of making a baby reaper was to try and take the citadel relay again. So, yeah it seemed to hinder their arrival a bit IMO. But that is not always the point of a book 2 in a trilogy. I thought it was about choosing humanity as the next race to "survive" in Reaper form. Shepard had beaten one of them so his race was proven to be most worthy. Note that no Prothean Reaper was created. Instead, they were turned into "husks". That means, as I see it, that no worthy race existed in the Prothean cycle. I do agree that the Reapers wanted to regain the Citadel, and control of the keepers again (for the next cycle), but that was almost a side issue once they'd made it to the MW. Ok, there's couple of things wrong with this: #1: Why do they want to build a Human-Reaper Hybrid for, and how does it affect the outcome of the arrival of the Reapers? I thought Sovereign said that organic life is nothing to them, and all of the sudden they want to collect humans? #2: Why would the Reapers want to abduct humans for making a Reaper, because of Shepard's involvement stopping Sovereign from overriding the Citadel? And it was the Alliance and Citadel Fleet who destroyed Sovereign. But the Reapers have decided to kidnap humans from remote colonies because of that? That doesn't make any sense.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2018 11:34:29 GMT
I thought it was about choosing humanity as the next race to "survive" in Reaper form. Shepard had beaten one of them so his race was proven to be most worthy. Note that no Prothean Reaper was created. Instead, they were turned into "husks". That means, as I see it, that no worthy race existed in the Prothean cycle. I do agree that the Reapers wanted to regain the Citadel, and control of the keepers again (for the next cycle), but that was almost a side issue once they'd made it to the MW. Ok, there's couple of things wrong with this: #1: Why do they want to build a Human-Reaper Hybrid for, and how does it affect the outcome of the arrival of the Reapers? I thought Sovereign said that organic life is nothing to them, and all of the sudden they want to collect humans? #2: Why would the Reapers want to abduct humans for making a Reaper, because of Shepard's involvement stopping Sovereign from overriding the Citadel? And it was the Alliance and Citadel Fleet who destroyed Sovereign. But the Reapers have decided to kidnap humans from remote colonies because of that? That doesn't make any sense. Of course it don't, and that is because of a variety of reasons. One reason being the Reapers entire purpose being retconned 2/3's of the way through the series. Once Bioware changed the purpose of the Reapers existence, the Human Reaper became an elephant in the room that has no real explanation. All of these questions you have, had definitive answers in Drew K's original story concept (which I still didn't like personally). For example. They wanted to build the human Reaper, originally, because the Reapers were convinced a Reaper made from humans would stop Dark Energy from destroying the galaxy. The bit about Sovereign was likely one of two things. Either Bioware being inconsistent in their writing, or Sovereign simply being ignorant of the nature of it's own existence. Again, they were, originally, kidnapping humans because "HUMANS R SPECIAL MKAY?" in the original story concept, and that is how the Reapers determined they were prime subjects for Reaperfication. Of course once Drew's story concept was abandoned, all of these questions no longer have answers, and are instead just gaping holes in the logical consistency of the story. Just further proof of how horribly thought out the trilogy really was from a narrative point of view.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 12:28:32 GMT
Ok, there's couple of things wrong with this: #1: Why do they want to build a Human-Reaper Hybrid for, and how does it affect the outcome of the arrival of the Reapers? I thought Sovereign said that organic life is nothing to them, and all of the sudden they want to collect humans? #2: Why would the Reapers want to abduct humans for making a Reaper, because of Shepard's involvement stopping Sovereign from overriding the Citadel? And it was the Alliance and Citadel Fleet who destroyed Sovereign. But the Reapers have decided to kidnap humans from remote colonies because of that? That doesn't make any sense. Of course it don't, and that is because of a variety of reasons. One reason being the Reapers entire purpose being retconned 2/3's of the way through the series. Once Bioware changed the purpose of the Reapers existence, the Human Reaper became an elephant in the room that has no real explanation. All of these questions you have, had definitive answers in Drew K's original story concept (which I still didn't like personally). For example. They wanted to build the human Reaper, originally, because the Reapers were convinced a Reaper made from humans would stop Dark Energy from destroying the galaxy. The bit about Sovereign was likely one of two things. Either Bioware being inconsistent in their writing, or Sovereign simply being ignorant of the nature of it's own existence. Again, they were, originally, kidnapping humans because "HUMANS R SPECIAL MKAY?" in the original story concept, and that is how the Reapers determined they were prime subjects for Reaperfication. Of course once Drew's story concept was abandoned, all of these questions no longer have answers, and are instead just gaping holes in the logical consistency of the story. Just further proof of how horribly thought out the trilogy really was from a narrative point of view. Wow. They really need to rewrite the whole story of the trilogy, because it does not make sense at all. And they really need creative writers and editors to fix those inconsistencies of the plot of the trilogy. And this should get Casey Hudson's attention, so he could assess the situation if he decides to reboot the trilogy. Which I think he should.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2018 12:42:00 GMT
Of course it don't, and that is because of a variety of reasons. One reason being the Reapers entire purpose being retconned 2/3's of the way through the series. Once Bioware changed the purpose of the Reapers existence, the Human Reaper became an elephant in the room that has no real explanation. All of these questions you have, had definitive answers in Drew K's original story concept (which I still didn't like personally). For example. They wanted to build the human Reaper, originally, because the Reapers were convinced a Reaper made from humans would stop Dark Energy from destroying the galaxy. The bit about Sovereign was likely one of two things. Either Bioware being inconsistent in their writing, or Sovereign simply being ignorant of the nature of it's own existence. Again, they were, originally, kidnapping humans because "HUMANS R SPECIAL MKAY?" in the original story concept, and that is how the Reapers determined they were prime subjects for Reaperfication. Of course once Drew's story concept was abandoned, all of these questions no longer have answers, and are instead just gaping holes in the logical consistency of the story. Just further proof of how horribly thought out the trilogy really was from a narrative point of view. Wow. They really need to rewrite the whole story of the trilogy, because it does not make sense at all. And they really need creative writers and editors to fix those inconsistencies of the plot of the trilogy. And this should get Casey Hudson's attention, so he could assess the situation if he decides to reboot the trilogy. Which I think he should. I doubt it will. Casey was in charge of the entire Trilogy. Mass Effect was HIS baby. He approved everything, and it was Casey and Mac Walters that decided the ending of ME3 was artistic brilliance without consulting anyone else on the writing staff.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 12:46:47 GMT
Wow. They really need to rewrite the whole story of the trilogy, because it does not make sense at all. And they really need creative writers and editors to fix those inconsistencies of the plot of the trilogy. And this should get Casey Hudson's attention, so he could assess the situation if he decides to reboot the trilogy. Which I think he should. I doubt it will. Casey was in charge of the entire Trilogy. Mass Effect was HIS baby. He approved everything, and it was Casey and Mac Walters that decided the ending of ME3 was artistic brilliance without consulting anyone else on the writing staff. Wow, that's a very shitty move they've pulled, and they rather serve their egos, rather than putting forth an effort to create a powerful ending for Shepard. This is why I'm very hard on BioWare because of that.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2018 13:23:18 GMT
I doubt it will. Casey was in charge of the entire Trilogy. Mass Effect was HIS baby. He approved everything, and it was Casey and Mac Walters that decided the ending of ME3 was artistic brilliance without consulting anyone else on the writing staff. Wow, that's a very shitty move they've pulled, and they rather serve their egos, rather than putting forth an effort to create a powerful ending for Shepard. This is why I'm very hard on BioWare because of that. Indeed, Casey was also the one that blatantly lied to the entire fan base, leading up to ME3's release. He promised all these great and wonderful things, talking about how the game would have dozens of different endings, taking all your choices into account. More importantly, he specifically said the following... ...oops. Then you have the actual "Write-UP" that Casey and Mac did for the ending. Want to see just how much effort and thought went into it? See for yourself. The last phrase is very indicative. They deliberately did not want to explain anything. Then of course, in typical fashion, the so called games media picked the side they always do... Then of course, we had "Patrick Weekes" vent about the whole issue on Penny Arcade. (ofc it wasn't him, he was hacked you see -wink wink-) I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn’t automatically die in that shuttle crash, and c) having written Tali’s goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).
No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.
And honestly, it kind of shows.
Every other mission in the game had to be held up to the rest of the writing team, and the writing team then picked it apart and made suggestions and pointed out the parts that made no sense. This mission? Casey and our lead deciding that they didn’t need to be peer-reviewe.d
And again, it shows.
If you’d asked me the themes of Mass Effect 3, I’d break them down as:
Galactic Alliances
Friends
Organics versus Synthetics
In my personal opinion, the first two got a perfunctory nod. We did get a goodbye to our friends, but it was in a scene that was divorced from the gameplay — a deliberate “nothing happens here” area with one turret thrown in for no reason I really understand, except possibly to obfuscate the “nothing happens here”-ness. The best missions in our game are the ones in which the gameplay and the narrative reinforce each other. The end of the Genophage campaign exemplifies that for me — every line of dialog is showing you both sides of the krogan, be they horrible brutes or proud warriors; the art shows both their bombed-out wasteland and the beautiful world they once had and could have again; the combat shows the terror of the Reapers as well as a blatant reminder of the rachni, which threatened the galaxy and had to be stopped by the krogan last time. Every line of code in that mission is on target with the overall message.
The endgame doesn’t have that. I wanted to see banshees attacking you, and then have asari gunships zoom in and blow them away. I wanted to see a wave of rachni ravagers come around a corner only to be met by a wall of krogan roaring a battle cry. Here’s the horror the Reapers inflicted upon each race, and here’s the army that you, Commander Shepard, made out of every race in the galaxy to fight them.
I personally thought that the Illusive Man conversation was about twice as long as it needed to be — something that I’ve been told in my peer reviews of my missions and made edits on, but again, this is a conversation no writer but the lead ever saw until it was already recorded. I did love Anderson’s goodbye.
For me, Anderson’s goodbye is where it ended. The stuff with the Catalyst just… You have to understand. Casey is really smart and really analytical. And the problem is that when he’s not checked, he will assume that other people are like him, and will really appreciate an almost completely unemotional intellectual ending. I didn’t hate it, but I didn’t love it.
And then, just to be a dick… what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked “Destroy the Reapers”. When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you’d show a cutscene of Earth that was either:
a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory
Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT.
c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out
I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren’t in there. As far as I know, they were never cut. Maybe they were cut for budget reasons at the last minute. I don’t know. But holy crap, yeah, I can see how incredibly disappointing it’d be to hear of all the different ending possibilities and have it break down to “which color is stuff glowing?” Or maybe they ARE in, but they’re too subtle to really see obvious differences, and again, that’s… yeah.
Okay, that’s a lot to have written for something that’s gonna go away in an hour.
I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn’t tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn’t have enough cutscene differentiation on it.
And to be clear, I don’t even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with Shepard sacrificing himself. I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes — all three of them.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2018 14:27:16 GMT
Those things cannot be disputed. That is nothing but fact right there. So it definitely boggled my mind when people got all hopeful and excited when it was first announced that Casey came back to the studio. Like, why is anyone excited about the return of a man who blatantly lied to everybody, is directly responsible for one the most heavily publicized controversies in gaming history, and made sure that Mass Effect was in general a complete mess of conflicting ideas.
On the one hand, I guess I do get it. The man is brilliant, and is very creative. He is capable of coming up with incredible things, as evidenced by Mass Effects existence. However he seems like the George Lucas type. The guy who comes up with these awe-inspiring amazing ideas, but needs others to actually make those ideas good and polished. Except in the case of the ending...that was just a horrible idea from the beginning.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 11, 2018 17:24:03 GMT
I would love a Mass Effect sequel with that type of storytelling, and the idea of having an adventure. But for the sake of rebooting the Trilogy, it should be focused on the Reaper threat, but they can take aspects for the sake of uncovering Prothean artifacts, discover uncharted planets for ancient civilizations and the like. That's what Mass Effect 2 should've been, instead of going to a pointless suicide mission to take down the Collectors that did not prevent, or hinder the arrival of the Reapers on ME3. Maybe I wrote in more in my head than I should have, but i always assumed the entire point of making a baby reaper was to try and take the citadel relay again. So, yeah it seemed to hinder their arrival a bit IMO. But that is not always the point of a book 2 in a trilogy. This was commonly believed back in the day. So common, in fact, that one of the writers -- can't remember who offhand, but Weekes had the best track record for answering stuff-- actually posted that the human-Reaper was not intended as a replacement for Sovereign. I guess it was just the Collectors getting a head start, or maybe a proof-of-concept for eventual mass production.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 11, 2018 18:10:56 GMT
The only way things will ever be consistent is if they remove player choice from the game and remove other areas so there is no room for things to happen or change. That is not what is meant, when someone says it has to stay consistent. What that means, is you cannot have a whole codex entry explaining the mechanics of why guns have unlimited ammo, and need only to be cooled down, only to turn around one game later and introduce an inferior ammo based system and try to justify it in lore as superior technology. I dunno. If you made a bad gameplay design decision in the first game of the series, I'm not sure that you need to stick with the bad system forever. I'll take the inconsistency. (If you want to argue that ME1's system was better, that's a completely different argument.)
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2018 18:17:17 GMT
That is not what is meant, when someone says it has to stay consistent. What that means, is you cannot have a whole codex entry explaining the mechanics of why guns have unlimited ammo, and need only to be cooled down, only to turn around one game later and introduce an inferior ammo based system and try to justify it in lore as superior technology. I dunno. If you made a bad gameplay design decision in the first game of the series, I'm not sure that you need to stick with the bad system forever. I'll take the inconsistency. (If you want to argue that ME1's system was better, that's a completely different argument.) I think if you as a developer make a mistake, you try to fix it, not throw your hands in the air and give up and go with something simpler, resulting your setting losing believe-ability.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 11, 2018 19:32:36 GMT
They did try to fix it. They tried to fix it by going to clips.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 11, 2018 20:16:42 GMT
I personally would vote for a new character that is different from Shepard and Ryder. I know that Shepard and Ryder have their fans and that is a good thing.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 20:54:59 GMT
Those things cannot be disputed. That is nothing but fact right there. So it definitely boggled my mind when people got all hopeful and excited when it was first announced that Casey came back to the studio. Like, why is anyone excited about the return of a man who blatantly lied to everybody, is directly responsible for one the most heavily publicized controversies in gaming history, and made sure that Mass Effect was in general a complete mess of conflicting ideas. On the one hand, I guess I do get it. The man is brilliant, and is very creative. He is capable of coming up with incredible things, as evidenced by Mass Effects existence. However he seems like the George Lucas type. The guy who comes up with these awe-inspiring amazing ideas, but needs others to actually make those ideas good and polished. Except in the case of the ending...that was just a horrible idea from the beginning. The thing is that they rather be lazy and incompetent to give us a faulty story line, and expect people to just go with it. Rather than putting serious effort of making their best story, and create the best ending for Shepard. And on top of that, they don't want to take responsibility for their mistakes, instead they think that making DLCs somehow is going to fix a faulty storyline and the ending. Which is not. They really need to pull their heads out of their asses, and start taking responsibility for their screwups by doing better.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 20:59:20 GMT
They did try to fix it. They tried to fix it by going to clips. And they've done a horrible job. I've seen better endings on Fallout: New Vegas. Hell, even Spec Ops: The Line has meaningful endings than Mass Effect 3. They have absolutely no excuse for creating a sub par ending.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 21:06:08 GMT
Maybe I wrote in more in my head than I should have, but i always assumed the entire point of making a baby reaper was to try and take the citadel relay again. So, yeah it seemed to hinder their arrival a bit IMO. But that is not always the point of a book 2 in a trilogy. This was commonly believed back in the day. So common, in fact, that one of the writers -- can't remember who offhand, but Weekes had the best track record for answering stuff-- actually posted that the human-Reaper was not intended as a replacement for Sovereign. I guess it was just the Collectors getting a head start, or maybe a proof-of-concept for eventual mass production. Which brings up another problem. What was the point of the Collectors building the Reaper Hybrid for Cerberus, and Shepard if it has nothing to do to stop the arrival of the Reapers? If he claims that they didn't build it to replace Sovereign to retake the Citadel, then what was the point of stopping the Collectors? Have they even thought any of this through?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2018 21:19:06 GMT
This was commonly believed back in the day. So common, in fact, that one of the writers -- can't remember who offhand, but Weekes had the best track record for answering stuff-- actually posted that the human-Reaper was not intended as a replacement for Sovereign. I guess it was just the Collectors getting a head start, or maybe a proof-of-concept for eventual mass production. Which brings up another problem. What was the point of the Collectors building the Reaper Hybrid for Cerberus, and Shepard if it has nothing to do to stop the arrival of the Reapers? If he claims that they didn't build it to replace Sovereign to retake the Citadel, then what was the point of stopping the Collectors? Have they even thought any of this through? The point was to give Shepard something to do.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2018 21:20:04 GMT
They did try to fix it. They tried to fix it by going to clips. And they've done a horrible job. I've seen better endings on Fallout: New Vegas. Hell, even Spec Ops: The Line has meaningful endings than Mass Effect 3. They have absolutely no excuse for creating a sub par ending.
Fallout 3's Broken Steel is how you fix a cr*p ending. Even if it did cost money.
But DAO, now THAT was how you end a story.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2018 21:23:52 GMT
Those things cannot be disputed. That is nothing but fact right there. So it definitely boggled my mind when people got all hopeful and excited when it was first announced that Casey came back to the studio. Like, why is anyone excited about the return of a man who blatantly lied to everybody, is directly responsible for one the most heavily publicized controversies in gaming history, and made sure that Mass Effect was in general a complete mess of conflicting ideas. On the one hand, I guess I do get it. The man is brilliant, and is very creative. He is capable of coming up with incredible things, as evidenced by Mass Effects existence. However he seems like the George Lucas type. The guy who comes up with these awe-inspiring amazing ideas, but needs others to actually make those ideas good and polished. Except in the case of the ending...that was just a horrible idea from the beginning. He was behind KOTOR. I give him props for that.
But then he was behind ME3...not so good.
So overall I'm meh about him coming or going.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2018 21:42:32 GMT
And they've done a horrible job. I've seen better endings on Fallout: New Vegas. Hell, even Spec Ops: The Line has meaningful endings than Mass Effect 3. They have absolutely no excuse for creating a sub par ending.
Fallout 3's Broken Steel is how you fix a cr*p ending. Even if it did cost money.
But DAO, now THAT was how you end a story.
As much as I loved and enjoyed Broken Steel, I have to disagree with that. Fallout games are suppose to "end". They are not suppose to just keep going forever and ever, I feel Bethesda caving in to the fans who refused to either start over or just reload a save is what started the downward spiral for Fallout 4, because 4 is designed as a game that is meant to be played on one character forever and ever until you just get bored and fuck off. There is no incentive to replay the game, or try anything differently. New Vegas had the guts to End, and they stuck to their guns no matter how loudly people whined about it. As a result New Vegas is able to have actual consequences for your actions, because without an ending, you cannot have an epilogue, meaning you cannot really have any meaningful consequences for player choice. The foolish outrage over Fallout 3's ending has, imo, done irreparable harm to the Fallout brand as an RPG.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 11, 2018 21:48:33 GMT
This was commonly believed back in the day. So common, in fact, that one of the writers -- can't remember who offhand, but Weekes had the best track record for answering stuff-- actually posted that the human-Reaper was not intended as a replacement for Sovereign. I guess it was just the Collectors getting a head start, or maybe a proof-of-concept for eventual mass production. Which brings up another problem. What was the point of the Collectors building the Reaper Hybrid for Cerberus, and Shepard if it has nothing to do to stop the arrival of the Reapers? If he claims that they didn't build it to replace Sovereign to retake the Citadel, then what was the point of stopping the Collectors? Have they even thought any of this through? The Collectors were still mass murdering hundreds of thousands of humans and were planning to kill billions more. That is plenty of a point to stop them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 21:55:16 GMT
The Collectors were still mass murdering hundreds of thousands of humans and were planning to kill billions more. That is plenty of a point to stop them. It's amazing how quickly everyone both forgot about and got over that horrendous genocide.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 22:00:47 GMT
Which brings up another problem. What was the point of the Collectors building the Reaper Hybrid for Cerberus, and Shepard if it has nothing to do to stop the arrival of the Reapers? If he claims that they didn't build it to replace Sovereign to retake the Citadel, then what was the point of stopping the Collectors? Have they even thought any of this through? The Collectors were still mass murdering hundreds of thousands of humans and were planning to kill billions more. That is plenty of a point to stop them. *deep deep sigh* I just explained that on my previous posts why that does not make sense. Oh, you silly rabbit you. *Sigh*
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