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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 11, 2018 22:04:25 GMT
The Collectors were still mass murdering hundreds of thousands of humans and were planning to kill billions more. That is plenty of a point to stop them. It's amazing how quickly everyone both forgot about and got over that horrendous genocide. If you mean ingame characters, yeah. The only one who didn't is Kelly, since that whole experience is used as the ingame reason why she can't be on the Normandy.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 11, 2018 22:04:56 GMT
And they've done a horrible job. I've seen better endings on Fallout: New Vegas. Hell, even Spec Ops: The Line has meaningful endings than Mass Effect 3. They have absolutely no excuse for creating a sub par ending.
Fallout 3's Broken Steel is how you fix a cr*p ending. Even if it did cost money.
But DAO, now THAT was how you end a story.
It might have been a way to end a story, but the fans never shut up about bringing The Warden back because they want it. If people were willing to accept that Shepard was going to come back without having to kill them off in every scenario then maybe we could have had something better.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 11, 2018 22:08:25 GMT
The Collectors were still mass murdering hundreds of thousands of humans and were planning to kill billions more. That is plenty of a point to stop them. *deep deep sigh* I just explained that on my previous posts why that does not make sense. Why what doesn't make sense? The Collectors harvesting humans to make a new Reaper? That makes perfect sense since turning races into Reapers to preserve them is the whole point of the cycles.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 22:15:16 GMT
*deep deep sigh* I just explained that on my previous posts why that does not make sense. Why what doesn't make sense? The Collectors harvesting humans to make a new Reaper? That makes perfect sense since turning races into Reapers to preserve them is the whole point of the cycles. Oh my goodness. I've just explained why it does not make sense on my previous posts. 🙄😒
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 11, 2018 22:17:25 GMT
Why what doesn't make sense? The Collectors harvesting humans to make a new Reaper? That makes perfect sense since turning races into Reapers to preserve them is the whole point of the cycles. Oh my goodness. I've just explained why it does not make sense on my previous posts. 🙄😒 No, you just asked a bunch of questions while griping about how it doesn't make sense to you and using that to insult Bioware like you always do.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Aug 11, 2018 22:17:39 GMT
I'd have Mass Effect 3 end by revealing Garrus and Tali were angels and have Shepard defeat the Reapers with a cover of Crosstown Traffic
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 22:26:47 GMT
Oh my goodness. I've just explained why it does not make sense on my previous posts. 🙄😒 No, you just asked a bunch of questions while griping about how it doesn't make sense to you and using that to insult Bioware like you always do. So questioning and addressing flaws of the story, and expressing my opinion about BioWare's problems is considered an insult? We have this conversation before and I gave you an answer. Why do you expected to change?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 11, 2018 22:38:32 GMT
No, you just asked a bunch of questions while griping about how it doesn't make sense to you and using that to insult Bioware like you always do. So questioning and addressing flaws of the story, and expressing my opinion about BioWare's problems is considered an insult? We have this conversation before and I gave you an answer. Why do you expected to change? No, but asking questions is not explaining things like you claimed to have done. Asking questions is pretty much the opposite of explaining.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 11, 2018 22:42:21 GMT
So questioning and addressing flaws of the story, and expressing my opinion about BioWare's problems is considered an insult? We have this conversation before and I gave you an answer. Why do you expected to change? No, but asking questions is not explaining things like you claimed to have done. Asking questions is pretty much the opposite of explaining. Is this even going somewhere?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 11, 2018 23:10:38 GMT
Which brings up another problem. What was the point of the Collectors building the Reaper Hybrid for Cerberus, and Shepard if it has nothing to do to stop the arrival of the Reapers? If he claims that they didn't build it to replace Sovereign to retake the Citadel, then what was the point of stopping the Collectors? Have they even thought any of this through? The point was to give Shepard something to do. Well, stopping the Collectors does save some tens of thousands of colonists who would have been killed between the assault on the Collector base and the start of the Reaper War. OK, it's a rounding error compared to the casualties from the latter, but still worth doing. I suppose it also might have given Shepard the Control option. As for whether that's worth doing, YMMV.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 11, 2018 23:11:39 GMT
No, but asking questions is not explaining things like you claimed to have done. Asking questions is pretty much the opposite of explaining. Is this even going somewhere? I think that depends on you. What's your case, again?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2018 23:26:01 GMT
*deep deep sigh* I just explained that on my previous posts why that does not make sense. Why what doesn't make sense? The Collectors harvesting humans to make a new Reaper? That makes perfect sense since turning races into Reapers to preserve them is the whole point of the cycles. But they did it with no Reaper backup, and with the galaxy still at full strength. WHy not wait until they have tens of thousands of Reapers scouring the galaxy for humans, rather than sneak around with one cruiser?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2018 23:27:22 GMT
The point was to give Shepard something to do. Well, stopping the Collectors does save some tens of thousands of colonists who would have been killed between the assault on the Collector base and the start of the Reaper War. OK, it's a rounding error compared to the casualties from the latter, but still worth doing. I suppose it also might have given Shepard the Control option. As for whether that's worth doing, YMMV. But what the Collectors did was worse than useless. They had zero reason to tip their hand so early, save to give Shepard an adventure before the Reapers actually arrived.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 11, 2018 23:32:16 GMT
Fallout 3's Broken Steel is how you fix a cr*p ending. Even if it did cost money.
But DAO, now THAT was how you end a story.
As much as I loved and enjoyed Broken Steel, I have to disagree with that. Fallout games are suppose to "end". They are not suppose to just keep going forever and ever, I feel Bethesda caving in to the fans who refused to either start over or just reload a save is what started the downward spiral for Fallout 4, because 4 is designed as a game that is meant to be played on one character forever and ever until you just get bored and fuck off. There is no incentive to replay the game, or try anything differently. New Vegas had the guts to End, and they stuck to their guns no matter how loudly people whined about it. As a result New Vegas is able to have actual consequences for your actions, because without an ending, you cannot have an epilogue, meaning you cannot really have any meaningful consequences for player choice. The foolish outrage over Fallout 3's ending has, imo, done irreparable harm to the Fallout brand as an RPG. That wasn't what redeemed the ending though (although Fallout 2 also had an ending where you could keep going after the critical story ended). The thing was, Broken Steel plugged a glaring plot hole regarding Project Purity (why you couldn't send a radiation-proof companion in) and let you see the fruits of your labors in person.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 11, 2018 23:42:30 GMT
As much as I loved and enjoyed Broken Steel, I have to disagree with that. Fallout games are suppose to "end". They are not suppose to just keep going forever and ever, I feel Bethesda caving in to the fans who refused to either start over or just reload a save is what started the downward spiral for Fallout 4, because 4 is designed as a game that is meant to be played on one character forever and ever until you just get bored and fuck off. There is no incentive to replay the game, or try anything differently. New Vegas had the guts to End, and they stuck to their guns no matter how loudly people whined about it. As a result New Vegas is able to have actual consequences for your actions, because without an ending, you cannot have an epilogue, meaning you cannot really have any meaningful consequences for player choice. The foolish outrage over Fallout 3's ending has, imo, done irreparable harm to the Fallout brand as an RPG. That wasn't what redeemed the ending though (although Fallout 2 also had an ending where you could keep going after the critical story ended). The thing was, Broken Steel plugged a glaring plot hole regarding Project Purity (why you couldn't send a radiation-proof companion in) and let you see the fruits of your labors in person. I agree with that particular problem, but I still believe the whole ordeal created an overall net negative result on the franchise in various ways, some less tangible than others. As I said, I greatly enjoyed Broken Steel, it is probably my second favorite Bethesda DLC Period, and one of the better DLCs I've played in gaming in general. But I also think the implications of Bethesda abandoning a definitive ending, and thus an epilogue, was not worth it to fix one dumb plot hole.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 11, 2018 23:51:38 GMT
Why what doesn't make sense? The Collectors harvesting humans to make a new Reaper? That makes perfect sense since turning races into Reapers to preserve them is the whole point of the cycles. But they did it with no Reaper backup, and with the galaxy still at full strength. WHy not wait until they have tens of thousands of Reapers scouring the galaxy for humans, rather than sneak around with one cruiser? Because the Reapers don't care about expendable pawns like the Collectors.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 11, 2018 23:58:09 GMT
Of course it don't, and that is because of a variety of reasons. One reason being the Reapers entire purpose being retconned 2/3's of the way through the series. Once Bioware changed the purpose of the Reapers existence, the Human Reaper became an elephant in the room that has no real explanation. This is a little bit misleading as written. The Reapers had no purpose in ME1; that was TBD. The dark energy bit was a concept they had a bit later, parts of which made it into ME2. Another cut concept from earlier in ME2 development stuck around; thematically, anyway I think there's some Matt Rhodes concept art for a cyborg Shep.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 12, 2018 0:01:31 GMT
As long as I'm going around correcting stuff, Weekes was wrong about this bit And then, just to be a dick… what was SUPPOSED to happen was that, say you picked “Destroy the Reapers”. When you did that, the system was SUPPOSED to look at your score, and then you’d show a cutscene of Earth that was either: a) Very high score: Earth obviously damaged, but woo victory Medium score: Earth takes a bunch of damage from the Crucible activation. Like dropping a bomb on an already war-ravaged city. Uh, well, maybe not LIKE that as much as, uh, THAT. c) Low score: Earth is a cinderblock, all life on it completely wiped out I have NO IDEA why these different cutscenes aren’t in there. Those different cutscenes were present in ME3 at release, although the differences between case B and case C are not very great. Weekes was assuming that people who said there were not differences were telling the truth.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Aug 12, 2018 0:04:39 GMT
Of course it don't, and that is because of a variety of reasons. One reason being the Reapers entire purpose being retconned 2/3's of the way through the series. Once Bioware changed the purpose of the Reapers existence, the Human Reaper became an elephant in the room that has no real explanation. This is a little bit misleading as written. The Reapers had no purpose in ME1; that was TBD. The dark energy bit was a concept they had a bit later, parts of which made it into ME2. Another cut concept from earlier in ME2 development stuck around; thematically, anyway I think there's some Matt Rhodes concept art for a cyborg Shep.I do remember that, he mentioned how the idea was for Shepard to basically go all TIM, doing whatever it takes, whatever the cost to achieve his goals, and would later be confronted by the new human spectre, either Ashley or Kaiden. But really that reasoning flies in the face of a Paragon Shepard. The mindset behind that idea is pure renegade, probably why that idea didn't go very far. And sure, technically speaking the reapers in ME1 was TBD, but my overall point, regarding the human reaper, remains the same.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 12, 2018 0:29:16 GMT
Fallout 3's Broken Steel is how you fix a cr*p ending. Even if it did cost money.
But DAO, now THAT was how you end a story.
As much as I loved and enjoyed Broken Steel, I have to disagree with that. Fallout games are suppose to "end". They are not suppose to just keep going forever and ever, I feel Bethesda caving in to the fans who refused to either start over or just reload a save is what started the downward spiral for Fallout 4, because 4 is designed as a game that is meant to be played on one character forever and ever until you just get bored and fuck off. There is no incentive to replay the game, or try anything differently. New Vegas had the guts to End, and they stuck to their guns no matter how loudly people whined about it. As a result New Vegas is able to have actual consequences for your actions, because without an ending, you cannot have an epilogue, meaning you cannot really have any meaningful consequences for player choice. The foolish outrage over Fallout 3's ending has, imo, done irreparable harm to the Fallout brand as an RPG. Obsidian has done a damn good job creating an immersive story that adds replayability value, and BioWare should've learn from to put value in their storytelling of the Mass Effect franchise.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 12, 2018 0:32:58 GMT
As much as I loved and enjoyed Broken Steel, I have to disagree with that. Fallout games are suppose to "end". They are not suppose to just keep going forever and ever, I feel Bethesda caving in to the fans who refused to either start over or just reload a save is what started the downward spiral for Fallout 4, because 4 is designed as a game that is meant to be played on one character forever and ever until you just get bored and fuck off. There is no incentive to replay the game, or try anything differently. New Vegas had the guts to End, and they stuck to their guns no matter how loudly people whined about it. As a result New Vegas is able to have actual consequences for your actions, because without an ending, you cannot have an epilogue, meaning you cannot really have any meaningful consequences for player choice. The foolish outrage over Fallout 3's ending has, imo, done irreparable harm to the Fallout brand as an RPG. Obsidian has done a damn good job creating an immersive story that adds replayability value, and BioWare should've learn from to put value in their storytelling of the Mass Effect franchise. The thing is if people hated the bugs in Andromeda at launch having the Fallout New Vegas level of bugs I think would have caused humanity to blink out of existence.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2018 0:56:52 GMT
But they did it with no Reaper backup, and with the galaxy still at full strength. WHy not wait until they have tens of thousands of Reapers scouring the galaxy for humans, rather than sneak around with one cruiser? Because the Reapers don't care about expendable pawns like the Collectors. That makes no sense. Why not totally genocide the Protheans to begin with then?
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2018 0:57:55 GMT
As much as I loved and enjoyed Broken Steel, I have to disagree with that. Fallout games are suppose to "end". They are not suppose to just keep going forever and ever, I feel Bethesda caving in to the fans who refused to either start over or just reload a save is what started the downward spiral for Fallout 4, because 4 is designed as a game that is meant to be played on one character forever and ever until you just get bored and fuck off. There is no incentive to replay the game, or try anything differently. New Vegas had the guts to End, and they stuck to their guns no matter how loudly people whined about it. As a result New Vegas is able to have actual consequences for your actions, because without an ending, you cannot have an epilogue, meaning you cannot really have any meaningful consequences for player choice. The foolish outrage over Fallout 3's ending has, imo, done irreparable harm to the Fallout brand as an RPG. Obsidian has done a damn good job creating an immersive story that adds replayability value, and BioWare should've learn from to put value in their storytelling of the Mass Effect franchise. Obsidian=what Bioware used to be.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 12, 2018 0:58:43 GMT
Because the Reapers don't care about expendable pawns like the Collectors. That makes no sense. Why not totally genocide the Protheans to begin with then? Starbrat likes to add insult to injury I guess.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2018 0:59:38 GMT
Obsidian has done a damn good job creating an immersive story that adds replayability value, and BioWare should've learn from to put value in their storytelling of the Mass Effect franchise. The thing is if people hated the bugs in Andromeda at launch having the Fallout New Vegas level of bugs I think would have caused humanity to blink out of existence. DIfference is: New Vegas had a good, multi-faction story the player could shape and was mod-friendly. It didn't rely on multiplayer and loot boxes to carry it.
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