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Post by midnight tea on Dec 22, 2018 1:27:37 GMT
Sorry to interrupt the current line of discussion (didn't know where else to post this) but how big of a time gap do you guys think there'll be between Trespasser and DA4, in-universe? I don't know why my mind is stuck on around 2 or 2,5 years. Just a hunch. I don't think we'd pick up the story immediately after Trespasser, but probably not terribly far from that point in time. Haven't the comics sort of glossed over 6-12 months? and the writer of the comics hinted there may be one more comic. So let's say, a year. Anymore and you think Solas is seriously twiddling his thumbs. I mean, he ate Mythal, he took control of the Eluvian Network... The Qunari are full blown attacking Tevinter, distracting his only potential batch of magical foes quite well. what else does he need? Is there going to be a planetary alignment of the stars he's waiting for? I'm almost certain that there will be a significant astrological event there somewhere. My bet is on some sort of rare eclipse that involves Thedas's two moons.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Dec 22, 2018 1:32:34 GMT
Two shadowed spheres among stars subtitled "aboofqp iboxE'kbC px bpmfizb kX" ("An eclipse as Fen'Harel stirred") -From the Emergent Compendium
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Post by colfoley on Dec 22, 2018 1:38:43 GMT
OK here's a rather interesting and insane fan theory on my part, I am not entirely sure if its even going to be remotely close to true but I find the possibility too juicy to entirely ignore:
So it seems that A. we know that Solas tends to dissemble and lie about things and B. that the 'destruction of the world' may not actually mean the literal destruction of the world/ death oof all life. I myself doubt that given that all life did, apparently, exisist at one point in a Pre-veil world. We also know that at the end of his little speech in Tresspasser he says something along the lines of "I'd treassure being proven wrong one last time."
So...what if he told the Inquisitor all these horrible nasty consequences of the Veil coming down knowing that its not going to be that bad for the express purpose of getting the Inquisitor to oppose him and find another solution to the problem that he hasn't seen. Namely: How do you tear down the veil without also releasing the Evanuris...which may be the main threat he fears in the first place.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Dec 22, 2018 1:40:14 GMT
Sorry to interrupt the current line of discussion (didn't know where else to post this) but how big of a time gap do you guys think there'll be between Trespasser and DA4, in-universe? I don't know why my mind is stuck on around 2 or 2,5. Just a hunch. I don't think we'd pick up the story immediately after Trespasser, but probably not terribly far from that point in time. Haven't the comics sort of glossed over 6-12 months? and the writer of the comics hinted there may be one more comic. So let's say, a year. Anymore and you think Solas is seriously twiddling his thumbs. I mean, he ate Mythal, he took control of the Eluvian Network... The Qunari are full blown attacking Tevinter, distracting his only potential batch of magical foes quite well. what else does he need? Is there going to be a planetary alignment of the stars he's waiting for? I'm almost certain that there will be a significant astrological event there somewhere. My bet is on some sort of rare eclipse that involves Thedas's two moons. I can't remember for certain, but doesn't it seem like the Trespasser epilogues go a bit further than that down the time line... more than just a couple of years? Do you remember?
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Post by phoray on Dec 22, 2018 1:41:46 GMT
I'm almost certain that there will be a significant astrological event there somewhere. My bet is on some sort of rare eclipse that involves Thedas's two moons. As much as I find it cliche and a bit confusing*, it would at least explain while he's twiddling. The Archdemon's twiddle is a plot hole, so I'd like to avoid the same plot hole with Solas. *I feel like it would require the same astrological event to have placed the veil. New magic he made from scratch that happens to require astrological events? none of the other magic in the game has ever gotten into Astrological events.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 22, 2018 1:44:32 GMT
Sorry to interrupt the current line of discussion (didn't know where else to post this) but how big of a time gap do you guys think there'll be between Trespasser and DA4, in-universe? Haven't the comics sort of glossed over 6-12 months? and the writer of the comics hinted there may be one more comic. So let's say, a year. Anymore and you think Solas is seriously twiddling his thumbs. I mean, he ate Mythal, he took control of the Eluvian Network... The Qunari are full blown attacking Tevinter, distracting his only potential batch of magical foes quite well. what else does he need? Is there going to be a planetary alignment of the stars he's waiting for? Well, an eclipse is a definite possibility.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 22, 2018 1:47:58 GMT
I say this is another point in favour of starting the game with the irreparable sundering of the veil.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 22, 2018 1:54:37 GMT
I don't know why my mind is stuck on around 2 or 2,5. Just a hunch. I don't think we'd pick up the story immediately after Trespasser, but probably not terribly far from that point in time. I'm almost certain that there will be a significant astrological event there somewhere. My bet is on some sort of rare eclipse that involves Thedas's two moons. I can't remember for certain, but doesn't it seem like the Trespasser epilogues go a bit further than that down the time line... more than just a couple of years? Do you remember? The epilogues go some time over events in Trespasser itself, but I'm not sure it was ever clearly stated when any events described in epilogues took place or how - time-wise - they relate to post-epilogue scene or comics or else. I do recall that some of the devs (probably Weekes?) said that they are both intentionally more vague than they were with epilogues in DAO and also a bit more certain about where the story is heading... though considering that at least *some* of the things mentioned in epilogues seem to be barely more than unverified rumors, there's enough flexibility there to put these things in whatever timeline or story direction would suit their narrative needs.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 22, 2018 1:59:28 GMT
Just because the races existed before the Veil doesn’t mean they would survive the reintroduction of the Fade to their reality. Thousands of years have passed since then and they have adapted to this new world. As we have seen on individual levels, being reintroduced to the Fade even with the Veil has led to disastrous consequences like we saw with Pharamond. He went insane and in that state he summoned a horde of demons that killed everyone where he was. Then there is what Solas said in an early discussion about the Fade how without the Veil the world would be one where imagination defines reality. That will surely lead to apocalyptic results, causing the world to burn in the raw chaos as he put it later in Trespasser.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 22, 2018 2:01:24 GMT
Just because the races existed before the Veil doesn’t mean they would survive the reintroduction of the Fade to their reality. Thousands of years have passed since then and they have adapted to this new world. As we have seen on individual levels, being reintroduced to the Fade even with the Veil has led to disastrous consequences like we saw with Pharamond. He went insane and in that state he summoned a horde of demons that killed everyone where he was. Then there is what Solas said in an early discussion about the Fade how without the Veil the world would be one where imagination defines reality. That will surely lead to apocalyptic results, causing the world to burn in the raw chaos as he put it later in Trespasser. Okay, so... nobody went extinct when magic went away, but they will when it comes back? Why?
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Post by phoray on Dec 22, 2018 2:03:52 GMT
Okay, so... nobody went extinct when magic went away, but they will when it comes back? Why? Because reality became LESS flexible.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 22, 2018 2:09:26 GMT
OK here's a rather interesting and insane fan theory on my part, I am not entirely sure if its even going to be remotely close to true but I find the possibility too juicy to entirely ignore: So it seems that A. we know that Solas tends to dissemble and lie about things and B. that the 'destruction of the world' may not actually mean the literal destruction of the world/ death oof all life. I myself doubt that given that all life did, apparently, exisist at one point in a Pre-veil world. We also know that at the end of his little speech in Tresspasser he says something along the lines of "I'd treassure being proven wrong one last time." So...what if he told the Inquisitor all these horrible nasty consequences of the Veil coming down knowing that its not going to be that bad for the express purpose of getting the Inquisitor to oppose him and find another solution to the problem that he hasn't seen. Namely: How do you tear down the veil without also releasing the Evanuris...which may be the main threat he fears in the first place. It's not that insane, really. It's come up a few times in the Blanketfort thread, both on the old forum and this one. I, for one, am hoping that our Inquisitors can find a different way, for sure. There are a lot of hints that it *may* be possible. Solas himself thinks we're super special in the wisdom department if we're friends or his lover.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 22, 2018 2:10:03 GMT
I'm almost certain that there will be a significant astrological event there somewhere. My bet is on some sort of rare eclipse that involves Thedas's two moons. As much as I find it cliche and a bit confusing*, it would at least explain while he's twiddling. The Archdemon's twiddle is a plot hole, so I'd like to avoid the same plot hole with Solas. *I feel like it would require the same astrological event to have placed the veil. New magic he made from scratch that happens to require astrological events? none of the other magic in the game has ever gotten into Astrological events. We don't actually know the relation of magic to astrological events or bodies - though we DO know that the Veil happens to be thinner during the night. And I don't think that's a coincidence. Also: elvhen myths appear to be full of references to sun, moon, earth and stars. And while I'm not the one say that something present in myths definitely proves anything, we have corroborating evidence in other parts of the game/world: in form of moon/sun symbolism on things like Solas's tarot cards or his murals, a mention of eclipse in Emergent Compedium, or two overlapping spheres in ancient writing in Temple Of Mythal (sounds verrry eclipsy...) or mentions during astrarium research that stars were significant in Elvhen culture as well. Then there's also strange fear of underground dwarves of the sun and a mention in an old poem of Mythal somehow withholding sun from dwarves in Trespasser. There are more little hints in different places, but that's what I can cite off the top of my head.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 22, 2018 2:10:41 GMT
Just because the races existed before the Veil doesn’t mean they would survive the reintroduction of the Fade to their reality. Thousands of years have passed since then and they have adapted to this new world. As we have seen on individual levels, being reintroduced to the Fade even with the Veil has led to disastrous consequences like we saw with Pharamond. He went insane and in that state he summoned a horde of demons that killed everyone where he was. Then there is what Solas said in an early discussion about the Fade how without the Veil the world would be one where imagination defines reality. That will surely lead to apocalyptic results, causing the world to burn in the raw chaos as he put it later in Trespasser. Okay, so... nobody went extinct when magic went away, but they will when it comes back? Why? First off, we don’t know that nobody went extinct when the Veil was created. Second, as I said we’ve seen that the races of today cannot handle being reconnected suddenly like Solas plans to do. As he used as an example in a dialogue on the subject, everyone has atrophied from the lack on connection. If the Veil was removed gradually allowing the races to adapt to it perhaps it could work, but that’s not Solas’s plan. Then there is the meta reasons, where it is clear that that scene is exposition from the writers to tell us what would happen.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 22, 2018 2:13:10 GMT
Okay, so... nobody went extinct when magic went away, but they will when it comes back? Why? Because reality became LESS flexible. Or, maybe, just maybe, Solas has no fucking clue what will happen when the veil comes down because it's not the sort of thing you can rehearse, and we shouldn't just be blindly taking his word when we know he's dishonest.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 22, 2018 2:13:59 GMT
OK here's a rather interesting and insane fan theory on my part, I am not entirely sure if its even going to be remotely close to true but I find the possibility too juicy to entirely ignore: So it seems that A. we know that Solas tends to dissemble and lie about things and B. that the 'destruction of the world' may not actually mean the literal destruction of the world/ death oof all life. I myself doubt that given that all life did, apparently, exisist at one point in a Pre-veil world. We also know that at the end of his little speech in Tresspasser he says something along the lines of "I'd treassure being proven wrong one last time." So...what if he told the Inquisitor all these horrible nasty consequences of the Veil coming down knowing that its not going to be that bad for the express purpose of getting the Inquisitor to oppose him and find another solution to the problem that he hasn't seen. Namely: How do you tear down the veil without also releasing the Evanuris...which may be the main threat he fears in the first place. It's not that insane, really. It's come up a few times in the Blanketfort thread, both on the old forum and this one. I, for one, am hoping that our Inquisitors can find a different way, for sure. There are a lot of hints that it *may* be possible. Solas himself thinks we're super special in the wisdom department if we're friends or his lover. I'd say that him stating 'I really wish you could prove me wrong' sounds like something of a dead giveaway
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Post by Lazarillo on Dec 22, 2018 2:16:19 GMT
Sorry to interrupt the current line of discussion (didn't know where else to post this) but how big of a time gap do you guys think there'll be between Trespasser and DA4, in-universe? I'd honestly like it to be about the same as the real-time wait between games. People talk about Fen'Harel not "twiddling his thumbs", but let's not forget this is a guy coming from a society where apparently it was common for a "proper" spell to be cast across decades, if not centuries. I mean, I will never find Solas being a hypocrite not fun, I expect, but I'd like to give some time for the setting to set, so to speak, and for "just one thing in this fucking world to stay fixed", to channel Quizzie, as it were? Plus, the closer many older characters get to being past their prime, the more we can see the new ones drive things forward.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 22, 2018 2:22:15 GMT
Just because the races existed before the Veil doesn’t mean they would survive the reintroduction of the Fade to their reality. Thousands of years have passed since then and they have adapted to this new world. As we have seen on individual levels, being reintroduced to the Fade even with the Veil has led to disastrous consequences like we saw with Pharamond. He went insane and in that state he summoned a horde of demons that killed everyone where he was. Then there is what Solas said in an early discussion about the Fade how without the Veil the world would be one where imagination defines reality. That will surely lead to apocalyptic results, causing the world to burn in the raw chaos as he put it later in Trespasser. Okay, so... nobody went extinct when magic went away, but they will when it comes back? Why? There's nothing more than fan speculation to indicate that everyone will definitely go extinct. Solas often speaks in metaphor. He says he "destroyed the world" when he raised the Veil, but clearly he didn't. It's still here. It's changed, but not destroyed. So, for me at least, there's a good chance that when he says "But the return of my people means the end of yours," he may not actually be talking about everybody dying. He may be talking about everybody changing (as Sandal's prophecy suggests). When he says "I will save the elven people, even if it means this world must die," again, it may not mean this world literally dying. It might mean "This world's cultures and civilizations will be irrevocably changed," as his own culture and civilization was irrevocably changed when he raised the Veil. I'm not suggesting that what he's planning to do will have absolutely no casualties at all. But I also am not as certain as a lot of fans seem to be that what he's planning is genocide. I hope that makes sense. ETA: Cultural genocide is quite definitely possible, but actually wiping various races off the face of the planet? Not sure.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 22, 2018 2:26:35 GMT
Because reality became LESS flexible. Or, maybe, just maybe, Solas has no fucking clue what will happen when the veil comes down because it's not the sort of thing you can rehearse, and we shouldn't just be blindly taking his word when we know he's dishonest. While the Veil appears to be a unique spell/structure in many ways, we don't really know whether it was the only thing that ever looked or behaved like it, or whether it wasn't based on something else, however different. Quite simply because we really have little to no clue how 'world of the elves' really looked like. Unlike a certain bald guy... In fact, I find it interesting that Morrigan mentions that Skyhold was a place of pilgrimage for a verrry long time (predating the Veil and there appears to be archeological evidence to support that), yet its ancient name basically translates to... well... Skyhold (the place where the sky is kept/held back) and it's where ancient elves "reached up to the heavens to bring them down to rest". Like... uh, what? What it could possibly mean? And why does it bring an image of something Veil'y, only not as permanent as the current Veil?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 22, 2018 2:31:10 GMT
Okay, so... nobody went extinct when magic went away, but they will when it comes back? Why? There's nothing more than fan speculation to indicate that everyone will definitely go extinct. Solas often speaks in metaphor. He says he "destroyed the world" when he raised the Veil, but clearly he didn't. It's still here. It's changed, but not destroyed. So, for me at least, there's a good chance that when he says "But the return of my people means the end of yours," he may not actually be talking about everybody dying. He may be talking about everybody changing (as Sandal's prophecy suggests). When he says "I will save the elven people, even if it means this world must die," again, it may not mean this world literally dying. It might mean "This world's cultures and civilizations will be irrevocably changed," as his own culture and civilization was irrevocably changed when he raised the Veil. I'm not suggesting that what he's planning to do will have absolutely no casualties at all. But I also am not as certain as a lot of fans seem to be that what he's planning is genocide. I hope that makes sense. Tbh, I'm not convinced Solas even HAS a coherent plan. Probably the reason he's taking so long is because he has no idea how to even get started.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 22, 2018 2:35:21 GMT
Or, maybe, just maybe, Solas has no fucking clue what will happen when the veil comes down because it's not the sort of thing you can rehearse, and we shouldn't just be blindly taking his word when we know he's dishonest. While the Veil appears to be a unique spell/structure in many ways, we don't really know whether it was the only thing that ever looked or behaved like it, or whether it wasn't based on something else, however different. Quite simply because we really have little to no clue how 'world of the elves' really looked like. Unlike a certain bald guy... In fact, I find it interesting that Morrigan mentions that Skyhold was a place of pilgrimage for a verrry long time (predating the Veil and there appears to be archeological evidence to support that), yet its ancient name basically translates to... well... Skyhold (the place where the sky is kept/held back) and it's where ancient elves "reached up to the heavens to bring them down to rest". Like... uh, what? What it could possibly mean? And why does it bring an image of something Veil'y, only not as permanent as the current Veil? Lol, I'm down for Solas to storm Skyhold and wipe out the remnants of the Inquisition.
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Post by Lazarillo on Dec 22, 2018 2:37:51 GMT
Lol, I'm down for Solas to storm Skyhold and wipe out the remnants of the Inquisition. And fail miserably when he tries that petrification crap on all the Templars that stayed loyal?
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 22, 2018 2:38:24 GMT
While the Veil appears to be a unique spell/structure in many ways, we don't really know whether it was the only thing that ever looked or behaved like it, or whether it wasn't based on something else, however different. Quite simply because we really have little to no clue how 'world of the elves' really looked like. Unlike a certain bald guy... In fact, I find it interesting that Morrigan mentions that Skyhold was a place of pilgrimage for a verrry long time (predating the Veil and there appears to be archeological evidence to support that), yet its ancient name basically translates to... well... Skyhold (the place where the sky is kept/held back) and it's where ancient elves "reached up to the heavens to bring them down to rest". Like... uh, what? What it could possibly mean? And why does it bring an image of something Veil'y, only not as permanent as the current Veil? Lol, I'm down for Solas to storm Skyhold and wipe out the remnants of the Inquisition. Well, there's a hole in the wall he can use to sneak into the castle Also, gotta wonder what happened to Morrigan's eluvian? We didn't see it hoisted on her back in the epilogue so... still in Skyhold? I think he does know where to start, but he's still hoping for a better solution...
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 22, 2018 2:45:10 GMT
Lol, I'm down for Solas to storm Skyhold and wipe out the remnants of the Inquisition. And fail miserably when he tries that petrification crap on all the Templars that stayed loyal? How do you figure? Templars can't even negate REGULAR magic a good portion of the time. At best they have an increased resistance.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 22, 2018 2:46:24 GMT
It's not that insane, really. It's come up a few times in the Blanketfort thread, both on the old forum and this one. I, for one, am hoping that our Inquisitors can find a different way, for sure. There are a lot of hints that it *may* be possible. Solas himself thinks we're super special in the wisdom department if we're friends or his lover. I'd say that him stating 'I really wish you could prove me wrong' sounds like something of a dead giveaway And, like... we know that a lot of the magic Tevinter uses was stuff the ancient elves came up with. But there have been 8000 4000 years of brains working since Elvhenan began to crumble. And in that time, those 8000 4000 years of brains have come up with things the ancient elves *didn't* come up with - like time magic. Solas seems quite surprised that Gereon Alexius was able to use time magic. Also, the magic-suppressing abilities of the Templars are probably *not* something that the ancient elves came up with, because why would they? So anyway, what I'm trying to say is that although Solas knows a lot, he isn't a god in the sense of being omniscient. Different brains might come up with ways of solving the Veil problem that Solas hasn't been able to come up with. *Edited to change the dates; I was pressed for time so too lazy to dig up my WoT books. Thanks to gervaise21 for bringing my error to my attention.
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