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Post by midnight tea on Jan 16, 2019 6:31:26 GMT
The amusing thing to me (someone who actually works with faces a lot) is that the game character's jaw is actually sliiiightly rounder... But that's not really the issue here - the issue is that the photo on the left is clearly from photoshoot session. She has subtle, but still present make up. Nevermind the lighting, which is of such paramount importance it's basically a multi-million industry on its own (also - lenses and lens filters). All of this is specifically designed to make the face look as attractive as possible. At this point, we've made it into a science - long before Photoshop, which the photo itself has also been through. You think that doesn't affect which faces we "subconsciously" pick when we've been fed idealized images since we were kids? Gee, and then people get shocked when they see that actors and models captured on the street aren't really much like their movie or photoshoot selves... I also have to chuckle at 'subconscious thing' when what we're presented for the sake of comparison is a lighter, crisper photo and a darker screenshot with muddier lighting from the game. Textbook confirmation bias. (also - thicc, natural brows are still the latest rage dude, know yo fashion!) I'm sorry Tea, the makeup still doesn't explain the discrepancies i noted earlier especially when you compare Aloy's and Hannah's facial features. Hmmm.... was make up the ONLY reason I gave for differences? Or just the first one? *sigh*... This is getting silly, so let's deal with it once and for all. I won't find a perfect overlay in terms of angles - especially at such short notice - but this will do. There was no photoshopping of Aloy, aside from scaling the images for features to overlap. Proportionally they're close to identical. No significant, if any, changes to mouth or nose (if the game nose looks larger it's only because of lighting conditions. The shadows on photo are taken care of due to studio lighting and a trip to PSP to strategically dim and lighten certain areas). As stated before, the actress has a very slightly more square jawline. Whatever differences you think or want to see, proportion-wise, are so minor they venture to the area of nitpicking, personal preferences or an untrained eye. Anything else is easily explainable not by some agenda, but by design decisions (making Aloy an redhead and giving her a different complexion or eye color), lack of make-up aside from gentle liner (no eyeshadow to push eyes deeper, or lipstick or gloss to make lips appear more prominent or pinker or larger... I mean, that's why we use them for in the first place) and simply common issues with 'translating' human face to the game. Like... if you think you can just scan the face and it will look and move exactly identical, you're in for a disappointment. Maybe in movies or specific projects focusing only on a face - but in a game? And a large RPG the like of HZD at that? Ahaha You're going to have some differences even if only because there are only so many polygons they can use to build the face and wrap textures around. The lighting and shadows are still different than real ones, even if they're relatively realistic (don't let me go off on a tangent about lighting and how that affects our skin alone. We'll be here for next 10 hours.) Then there's the fact that there are 42 muscles in human face. Even if we record actor's expressions, it's just impossible to translate all that into the game (of that size and scope especially) together with other things we can only mimic in 3D animation. Applying standardized facial animations loses some of the individualized expressions and quirks of a person, nevermind if they apply new quirks that the character has. So comparing game characters and actors when they move or talk or emote is fool's errand. They're not going to look the same. But as far as the face scan alone? They're as close to Hannah as they could be with the tech that was available to them. There was no 'masculinization'.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 16, 2019 6:51:46 GMT
I'm sorry Tea, the makeup still doesn't explain the discrepancies i noted earlier especially when you compare Aloy's and Hannah's facial features. Hmmm.... was make up the ONLY reason I gave for differences? Or just the first one? *sigh*... This is getting silly, so let's deal with it once and for all. I won't find a perfect overlay in terms of angles - especially at such short notice - but this will do. There was no photoshopping of Aloy, aside from scaling the images for features to overlap. Proportionally they're close to identical. No significant, if any, changes to mouth or nose (if the game nose looks larger it's only because of lighting conditions. The shadows on photo are taken care of due to studio lighting and a trip to PSP to strategically dim and lighten certain areas). As stated before, the actress has a very slightly more square jawline. Whatever differences you think or want to see, proportion-wise, are so minor they venture to the area of nitpicking, personal preferences or an untrained eye. Anything else is easily explainable not by some agenda, but by design decisions (making Aloy an redhead and giving her a different complexion or eye color), lack of make-up aside from gentle liner (no eyeshadow to push eyes deeper, or lipstick or gloss to make lips appear more prominent or pinker or larger... I mean, that's why we use them for in the first place) and simply common issues with 'translating' human face to the game. Like... if you think you can just scan the face and it will look and move exactly identical, you're in for a disappointment. Maybe in movies or specific projects focusing only on a face - but in a game? And a large RPG the like of HZD at that? Ahaha You're going to have some differences even if only because there are only so many polygons they can use to build the face and wrap textures around. The lighting and shadows are still different than real ones, even if they're relatively realistic (don't let me go off on a tangent about lighting and how that affects our skin alone. We'll be here for next 10 hours.) Then there's the fact that there are 42 muscles in human face. Even if we record actor's expressions, it's just impossible to translate all that into the game (of that size and scope especially) together with other things we can only mimic in 3D animation. Applying standardized facial animations loses some of the individualized expressions and quirks of a person, nevermind if they apply new quirks that the character has. So comparing game characters and actors when they move or talk or emote is fool's errand. They're not going to look the same. But as far as the face scan alone? They're as close to Hannah as they could be with the tech that was available to them. There was no 'masculinization'. Well damn? Agreed with the bolded, about the lighting and good comp pics too. You're right about Aloy not being masculinized but the inaccuracies no matter how minute just unnerves me. Like say Claire Redfield in Resident Evil 2 Remake. Can you make a comparison spread for her too, please?
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 16, 2019 7:17:53 GMT
Agreed with the bolded, about the lighting and good comp pics too. You're right about Aloy not being masculinized but the inaccuracies no matter how minute just unnerves me. Like say Claire Redfield in Resident Evil 2 Remake. Can you make a comparison spread for her too, please? I can, but I need some sleep, and probably some help hunting down photos/screenshots I can overlap, otherwise comparison will not be very precise. And don't get me wrong - I don't have problems with you having problems with characters in games not being, like, identical with their real counterparts. As the AAA games become more realistic there's more incentive to use real faces... I'm just not sure whether I'm a big fan of that myself (I personally prefer unique faces in Dragon Age Inquisition rather than face scans from MEA, for example). Or, maybe more precisely - I accept that people who were scanned into simply look different, even if somewhat. It's just a matter of technology involved (nevermind all the design decisions for the character). As time passes they're going to get better at it, but since even multimillion movies like Rogue One can't yet make a digital person look indistinguishable from real life in a few short scenes then games will have problems with that for longer. It will be interesting to see how CG evolves tho.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 16, 2019 7:44:59 GMT
Agreed with the bolded, about the lighting and good comp pics too. You're right about Aloy not being masculinized but the inaccuracies no matter how minute just unnerves me. Like say Claire Redfield in Resident Evil 2 Remake. Can you make a comparison spread for her too, please? I can, but I need some sleep, and probably some help hunting down photos/screenshots I can overlap, otherwise comparison will not be very precise. And don't get me wrong - I don't have problems with you having problems with characters in games not being, like, identical with their real counterparts. As the AAA games become more realistic there's more incentive to use real faces... I'm just not sure whether I'm a big fan of that myself (I personally prefer unique faces in Dragon Age Inquisition rather than face scans from MEA, for example). Or, maybe more precisely - I accept that people who were scanned into simply look different, even if somewhat. It's just a matter of technology involved (nevermind all the design decisions for the character). As time passes they're going to get better at it, but since even multimillion movies like Rogue One can't yet make a digital person look indistinguishable from real life in a few short scenes then games will have problems with that for longer. It will be interesting to see how CG evolves tho. It's cool. Remember Resident Evil 2 Remake, Claire Redfield, get Leon too if it's possible. I do hope the tech and methods used to generate Peter Cushing's (Walking corpse) and Carrie Fisher (Pet Cemetery eyes) improves by a noticeable margin before LucasFilm ever decides to render a deceased or younger version of an actor again. RO's CG renders of the two previously mentioned actors just looks uncanny.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jan 16, 2019 11:57:14 GMT
As the OP would appear to have done a 'drop and run' on this thread, I'm doing a little 'wind speed test' on this discussion. EDIT: Please hit the thread poll to share your sentiment. OPTION AThis is an important discussion we're having here which should absolutely be allowed to continue with prominence. OPTION BBy all means, let the discussion continue, but disable the 'thread bump' (anchor the thread) so that it will gently drift off the board home page. Good grief, have we hit the stage where we actively vote for silly threads to get closed??? What is happening to this place... seriously, what happened to just IGNORING troll threads if we don't want to feed them? Anybody who still wants to bicker silly shit in here should be allowed to do so. The mere presence of a useless thread shouldn't trigger anybody into wanting it removed. I'm beginng to feel like the drama queens in the moderation thread were right.
You know, I felt sorry for moderation about all the work they have dealing with trigger happy report spammers. But you are ACTIVELY making your lives so much harder by adding stupid polls for thread closures! Just let the thread die from inactivity. No work for anybody. Jesus...
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 16, 2019 13:24:14 GMT
Good grief, have we hit the stage where we actively vote for silly threads to get closed??? It's not a moderation 'policy' to run polls. Just thought it was considerate to ask.
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Post by luzarius on Jan 16, 2019 14:45:06 GMT
My first "in before the lock" and thanks to the cool head of SofaJockey it's ruined! Hold my beer... Thanks for not locking the post. This is a very serious issue for me. All my favorite games are losing all the sexy & attractive women. *sigh*
I have no problem with that. It's fine if the game has normal, plain, ugly and average looking women. Would it be too much to ask for them to just add ONE sexy & attractive woman? The rest can be normal looking. I'm not unreasonable.
You are right. I haven't seen all the women in the game yet, maybe there will be some hot women. If you see any sexy & attractive women in the marketing videos can you show me? Angelina Jolie & Gal Gadot are more beautiful than most women. There are clear levels of sexy/attractive. Some people are more beautiful than others. You may have a point with 3, I'll keep that in mind. I'm not trolling. I like hot babes in games! I should be ashamed, but I can't help it, lol. It's not about that. Beautiful & sexy women completely capture my imagination like Gal Gadot in Wonder Woman. THIS SOUNDS AMAZING. I WOULD LOVE TO PLAY A GAME LIKE THAT. Beautiful & sexy female protagonists are my favorite. Agent Tassyn looks like she has a 5 o'clock shadow. It looks like they took the male texture and just erased the facial hair stubble. Her chin & jaw are just way too big and her clothing makes her look fat. The girl in the middle is too plain looking, not very attractive. The girl on the right has a somewhat nice looking face, but we don't get to see her hair. In Dragon Age Inquisition they made the black woman BALD! Why?! Why would they do that, she was very pretty, but her bald head ruined it. I got banned from that subreddit, they can't handle viewpoint diversity even when unjerked. I am being serious. I know people will make fun of me, but I don't care. I LOVE HOT VIDEO GAME BABES! lol
Here is an example of some women NPC's that are awesome, sexy & beautiful:
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 16, 2019 14:57:00 GMT
This shit again?! 😒
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Post by luzarius on Jan 16, 2019 15:01:01 GMT
I was just responding to people. The most important issue is that it's okay for games to have normal, plain, average or ugly looking women. It makes it more believable and immersive. Witcher 3 had the same. There were tons of just plain & normal looking women in Witcher 3, but they didn't neglect the sexy & attractive women either. I'm hoping Bioware can adopt this balanced view instead of just no longer adding sexy women to their games.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 16, 2019 15:09:51 GMT
Thanks for not locking the post. This is a very serious issue for me. All my favorite games are losing all the sexy & attractive women. *sigh* A serious question luzarius if I may. Are you the poster that used to go as 'Brevnau' that had the run-in with David Gaider, as many suspect? Because you do seem to have quite a singular passion for this topic. We've discussed in the past that you've found it hard to even get airtime for your posts on many forums - I see your contribution on the EA Answers site has also recently gone to a lock. Could it be that your wishes for, er, 'hot totty' are just out of step with many contemporary games for a host of pretty good reasons even if you don't like it personally? I'm not even sure that your request for 'attractive characters' is entirely fair, because I think BioWare has those, it's just that you seem to be going for a very specific type of, some would say 'stereotypical' attractive appearance.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 16, 2019 15:10:14 GMT
I was just responding to people. The most important issue is that it's okay for games to have normal, plan, average or ugly looking women. It makes it more believable and immersive. Witcher 3 had the same. There were tons of just plain & normal looking women in Witcher 3, but they didn't neglect the sexy & attractive women either. I'm hoping Bioware can adopt this balanced view instead of just no longer adding sexy women to their games. There's 3 ideas: Don't like the way the females look in game? Then. 1. Download body and face replacers. 2. Watch porn. That way, you can get your rocks off without looking at ugly women in games. 3. Go get laid. That way you don't need to play games with over sexaulised females to get your rocks off. Simples.
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Post by biggydx on Jan 16, 2019 15:23:36 GMT
Well, you know TC's motto: I'm not payin' tree-fiddy if there aint no anime tiddy
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Post by luzarius on Jan 16, 2019 15:24:12 GMT
Thanks for not locking the post. This is a very serious issue for me. All my favorite games are losing all the sexy & attractive women. *sigh* A serious question luzarius if I may. Are you the poster that used to go as 'Brevnau' that had the run-in with David Gaider, as many suspect? I've had responses from David Gaider, but that was a long time ago and it wasn't any other account, just my own account.
Ya, I get banned a lot. I have no idea why. I always try to be nice, but I always get screwed in the end. Oh, you saw that?! I can't believe EA locked my post. I was being completely polite and everything. That community manager locked my thread because people in that thread were making fun of me, does that make any logical sense? LOL. I re-made a new post with the community mangers suggestion and it caused me to get banned for three days. I don't see the problem with sexy women in games & comics. All I'm asking for is something like this:
Is this too much to ask?
Instead of de-sexualizing, the game industry should be sexualizing men for women's & gay folks entertainment. We need more equal sexualization, not less.
Women love steamy, sexy romance novels where there's a sexualized dude on the cover:
My ideas will make games better for EVERYONE including the ladies & gay gamers! I'm not selfish. It doesn't just have to be women that are sexualized. You can sexualize men too!
I love looking at beautiful people. I love ultra beautiful women game characters that are so beautiful, it's almost rare to see that level of beauty in real life, then it turns into a cool fantastical escape.
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Post by luzarius on Jan 16, 2019 15:33:46 GMT
1. Download body and face replacers.
If Anthem lets us customize all the female characters with mods, then I would totally download body & face replacers. I'm completely down for this idea. This would be good enough for me if we could mod the game.
This makes no sense. All I'm asking for is beautiful & sexy characters that look similar to like, Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. It's not about porn.
Angelina Jolie is another good example of what people like to see in movies. She's charismatic, sexy, beautiful & talented. She's the total package. People love to see beautiful women like her in movies, it's the same in games, comics & TV shows.
You think the only reason sexy women are in media is for masturbation purposes? You think Angelina Jolie & Gal Gadot are only cast because dudes just get their rocks off? No man, Gal Gadot's look completely captures the imagination along with her acting ability. She's the total package. That's all I want from Anthem.
Anthem doesn't have a lead character that is sexy & attractive.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 16, 2019 15:53:26 GMT
1. Download body and face replacers.
If Anthem lets us customize all the female characters with mods, then I would totally download body & face replacers. I'm completely down for this idea. This would be good enough for me if we could mod the game.
This makes no sense. All I'm asking for is beautiful & sexy characters that look similar to like, Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. It's not about porn.
Angelina Jolie is another good example of what people like to see in movies. She's charismatic, sexy, beautiful & talented. She's the total package. People love to see beautiful women like her in movies, it's the same in games, comics & TV shows.
You think the only reason sexy women are in media is for masturbation purposes? You think Angelina Jolie & Gal Gadot are only cast because dudes just get their rocks off? No man, Gal Gadot's look completely captures the imagination along with her acting ability. She's the total package. That's all I want from Anthem.
Anthem doesn't have a lead character that is sexy & attractive.
www.quickmeme.com/img/28/286b628d87076b506a0fd9a04cad716d87e3d596914a0bfa7cdbc96fdfad800a.jpg
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 16, 2019 16:34:05 GMT
If Anthem lets us customize all the female characters with mods, then I would totally download body & face replacers. I'm completely down for this idea. This would be good enough for me if we could mod the game.
This makes no sense. All I'm asking for is beautiful & sexy characters that look similar to like, Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. It's not about porn.
Angelina Jolie is another good example of what people like to see in movies. She's charismatic, sexy, beautiful & talented. She's the total package. People love to see beautiful women like her in movies, it's the same in games, comics & TV shows.
You think the only reason sexy women are in media is for masturbation purposes? You think Angelina Jolie & Gal Gadot are only cast because dudes just get their rocks off? No man, Gal Gadot's look completely captures the imagination along with her acting ability. She's the total package. That's all I want from Anthem.
Anthem doesn't have a lead character that is sexy & attractive.
www.quickmeme.com/img/28/286b628d87076b506a0fd9a04cad716d87e3d596914a0bfa7cdbc96fdfad800a.jpgIgnore the sensors i believe him.
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Post by Shinobu on Jan 16, 2019 22:41:37 GMT
Hold my beer... Thanks for not locking the post. This is a very serious issue for me. All my favorite games are losing all the sexy & attractive women. *sigh*
I have no problem with that. It's fine if the game has normal, plain, ugly and average looking women. Would it be too much to ask for them to just add ONE sexy & attractive woman? The rest can be normal looking. I'm not unreasonable.
You are right. I haven't seen all the women in the game yet, maybe there will be some hot women. If you see any sexy & attractive women in the marketing videos can you show me? Angelina Jolie & Gal Gadot are more beautiful than most women. There are clear levels of sexy/attractive. Some people are more beautiful than others. You may have a point with 3, I'll keep that in mind. I'm not trolling. I like hot babes in games! I should be ashamed, but I can't help it, lol. It's not about that. Beautiful & sexy women completely capture my imagination like Gal Gadot in Wonder Woman. THIS SOUNDS AMAZING. I WOULD LOVE TO PLAY A GAME LIKE THAT. Beautiful & sexy female protagonists are my favorite. Agent Tassyn looks like she has a 5 o'clock shadow. It looks like they took the male texture and just erased the facial hair stubble. Her chin & jaw are just way too big and her clothing makes her look fat. The girl in the middle is too plain looking, not very attractive. The girl on the right has a somewhat nice looking face, but we don't get to see her hair. In Dragon Age Inquisition they made the black woman BALD! Why?! Why would they do that, she was very pretty, but her bald head ruined it. I got banned from that subreddit, they can't handle viewpoint diversity even when unjerked. I am being serious. I know people will make fun of me, but I don't care. I LOVE HOT VIDEO GAME BABES! lol
Here is an example of some women NPC's that are awesome, sexy & beautiful:
Ok, thanks for writing a post that allows me to see you not as a troll but as a guy who feels he is crying out in the wilderness unheard.
Though I do think you'd get more traction if you stopped insulting the characters by calling then "ugly." It's fine to request classically beautiful people in a game, but running down the ones you see isn't going to get you much sympathy around here.
BADLY PHRASED: All the women are ugly! Why won't Bioware make any pretty women?
BETTER PHRASED: These particular women don't appeal to me. I'd love to see a character like Gal Gadot's Wonderwoman.
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Post by Shinobu on Jan 16, 2019 22:45:36 GMT
My way of thinking is that romance is based in part off attraction, so if people care about romance options in Bioware's games, they may care about physical appearance. But in this game, which is mostly out in the world dealing with mechs and ... aliens, and even when you're back in Fort Whatever you don't get to see yourself(first person) and there's no romance, I don't see why it's important. It's not that sort of game. Bethesda's characters always look ugly as sin and no one cares. This is the problem of Bioware cultivating romance to be such a big thing in their games, imo Make them all scaly carnivores with long tails and oozing acidic sludge from their pores, I really don't think I'd care You know this playerbase, right? We like long tails and acidic sludge.
In fact, I think you've just spawned an entire subgenre of fanart with this post.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 16, 2019 22:58:43 GMT
Though I do think you'd get more traction if you stopped insulting the characters by calling then "ugly." It's fine to request classically beautiful people in a game, but running down the ones you see isn't going to get you much sympathy around here.
BADLY PHRASED: All the women are ugly! Why won't Bioware make any pretty women?
BETTER PHRASED: These particular women don't appeal to me. I'd love to see a character like Gal Gadot's Wonderwoman. May I suggest luzarius that there is great wisdom in Shinobu's points. Your thread in the games section that discusses 'hot characters' positively, with people sharing their differing opinions, is getting a much better reception than one which seeks to impose your perception of ugliness or make it a matter of 'political agenda', telling people they are wrong or have poor taste, basically.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 17, 2019 1:40:22 GMT
It's cool. Remember Resident Evil 2 Remake, Claire Redfield, get Leon too if it's possible. It wasn't easy to hunt down images viable for comparison - there are not as many useful images out there in which faces are captured with similar angles or level of quality. I couldn't find images for Leon that were useful for this, so here's what I could do for Claire: Yea, on one hand, the tech has to go through that awkward phase to get better - but given the sensitivity of the matter, it's not something they can mess up too much. What I do find interesting is that - while 3D is used in abundance in movies - the fully CG movies the like of Final Fantasy or Beowulf haven't been a thing for a while now. People do like less realistic or stylized animations, that's for sure - but it's quite apparent now that realistic 3D will likely be a domain of AAA games for foreseeable future.
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Post by taarsidathanhalsaam on Jan 17, 2019 3:00:40 GMT
I was just responding to people. The most important issue is that it's okay for games to have normal, plain, average or ugly looking women. It makes it more believable and immersive. Witcher 3 had the same. There were tons of just plain & normal looking women in Witcher 3, but they didn't neglect the sexy & attractive women either. I'm hoping Bioware can adopt this balanced view instead of just no longer adding sexy women to their games. Luzarius, two out of three of the characters in your profile picture with the checkmarks on them (implying you approve of how hot/sexy they are) are from Dragon age Inquisition: the latest game from Bioware’s main studio. (Andromeda was made by their amateur team that has since been fired.) There is no reason to believe that Bioware has adopted a view of “no longer adding sexy women to their games”.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 17, 2019 3:18:43 GMT
It's cool. Remember Resident Evil 2 Remake, Claire Redfield, get Leon too if it's possible. It wasn't easy to hunt down images viable for comparison- there are not as many useful images out there in which faces are captured at the similar angles or level of quality. I couldn't find images for Leon that were useful for this, so here's what I could do for Claire: Yea, on one hand, the tech has to go through that awkward phase to get better - but given the sensitivity of the matter, it's not something they can mess up too much. What I do find interesting is that - while 3D is used in abundance in movies - the fully CG movies the like of Final Fantasy or Beowulf haven't been a thing for a while now. People do like less realistic or stylized animations, that's for sure - but it's quite apparent now that realistic 3D will likely be a domain of AAA games for foreseeable future. You are a magician, good work! You should make a character/model comparison thread for Anthem, and possibly DA4. Everything's lining up which is insane for me. I know facial animations can look unflattering especially when a screenshot is taken mid sequence, and lighting/shadows, think ENBs, can make a huge difference in visuals. I think people tend to gravitate towards stylized visuals due to the ease in perceiving less detailed figures/objects. Kind of like when you see non pencillers illustrate basic shapes for facial features and still lifes as their final drafts, think a kid drawing stick figure or that nun's botched restoration of Elias Martinez's painting. Agreed, realistic 3d becoming the norm in the the future is guaranteed, but it's up to the console companies to up the processing power of their succeeding systems by a considerable margin.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 17, 2019 4:52:48 GMT
It wasn't easy to hunt down images viable for comparison- there are not as many useful images out there in which faces are captured at the similar angles or level of quality. I couldn't find images for Leon that were useful for this, so here's what I could do for Claire: Yea, on one hand, the tech has to go through that awkward phase to get better - but given the sensitivity of the matter, it's not something they can mess up too much. What I do find interesting is that - while 3D is used in abundance in movies - the fully CG movies the like of Final Fantasy or Beowulf haven't been a thing for a while now. People do like less realistic or stylized animations, that's for sure - but it's quite apparent now that realistic 3D will likely be a domain of AAA games for foreseeable future. You are a magician, good work! You should make a character/model comparison thread for Anthem, and possibly DA4. Sure, why not - after Anthem launches we'd get more screenshots from the game (as well as info on who, aside from Haluk, is based on real person) and it will be easier to find viable images, which is the hardest part in this whole process. If there are people interested with such data point, it can be done There are many challenges and issues to overcome for those wishing to recreate a living person, some of which I mentioned in an earlier reply. Some other I didn't are no less tricky - like the fact that skin is fairly translucent, and a lot of its color (especially when it comes to lighter skin) comes from underneath it, so the way its many layers interact with light can be... complicated. Anybody who draws or paints (like me) can tell you that it takes a while to learn painting skin alone - and that's on predominantly static images. It's even tougher in the game or animation, in which skin is (in most cases at least) just one, unpenetrable layer at all times. The light, however varied, will simply not interact with it the way it does with real skin and that alone will make things just that bit more uncanny. The uncanny valley phenomenon itself is a thing one can fill whole books about - there are many things about our perception that make the state between 'real-but-not-real-enough' less acceptable than simplified or stylized images. One issue that I think using face scans of real people bring is that such characters may feel a bit more uncanny than characters not based on anybody in particular. I recall some discussions after MEA launch, especially from a time before patches - some people seemed surprised that facial animations of aliens seemed quite fine, while human and Asari didn't. But for me it was a wrong take; the animations for aliens weren't really any more sophisticated - it's just that we didn't have much in terms of point of reference for alien faces. They were alien after all. Human faces though? As a social species, not only we're evolved to process and recognize faces since we're born (and are so biased towards them we can see facial patterns in everything that even slightly resembles it), we're then trained since birth to recognize even minute expression as part of complex social interactions. We have so many points of reference for it, that when we see something that is standing out too much or just not quite right, our brain is just all 'huh? huh????', thus eliciting a sense of discomfort or uncanniness. So yea, I'm not surprised you're feeling weird despite things technically lining up. Not only you have a library of faces and facial expressions in your brain to tap - you also have a living person to compare to the CG facsimile and you see that it may move or emote or speak... differently (beyond just acting), that (theoretical) muscles underneath may not be matching the real counterpart, that the skin wrinkles in a weird way and so on. And all those little things build up to a point where the game character may really feel quite different compared to people lending their faces for the CG model. Of course, as someone interested with human perception, I find such things fascinating, if you can't tell already, haha. Like, Haluk (or any other character mentioned above) being based on a real person, but acted and voiced by someone else - that is just so weird when I think about it and bound to create interesting results. Ok, sorry for rambling I think I've had this sitting in me.
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Post by Hier0phant on Jan 17, 2019 5:06:26 GMT
You are a magician, good work! You should make a character/model comparison thread for Anthem, and possibly DA4. Sure, why not - after Anthem launches we'd get more screenshots from the game (as well as info on who, aside from Haluk, is based on real person) and it will be easier to find viable images, which is the hardest part in this whole process. If there are people interested with such data point, it can be done There are many challenges and issues to overcome for those wishing to recreate a living person, some of which I mentioned in an earlier reply. Some other I didn't are no less tricky - like the fact that skin is fairly translucent, and a lot of its color (especially when it comes to lighter skin) comes from underneath it, so the way its many layers interact with light can be... complicated. Anybody who draws or paints (like me) can tell you that it takes a while to learn painting skin alone - and that's on predominantly static images. It's even tougher in the game or animation, in which skin is (in most cases at least) just one, unpenetrable layer at all times. The light, however varied, will simply not interact with it the way it does with real skin and that alone will make things just that bit more uncanny. The uncanny valley phenomenon itself is a thing one can fill whole books about - there are many things about our perception that make the state between 'real-but-not-real-enough' less acceptable than simplified or stylized images. One issue that I think using face scans of real people bring is that such characters may feel a bit more uncanny than characters not based on anybody in particular. I recall some discussions after MEA launch, especially from a time before patches - some people seemed surprised that facial animations of aliens seemed quite fine, while human and Asari didn't. But for me it was a wrong take; the animations for aliens weren't really any more sophisticated - it's just that we didn't have much in terms of point of reference for alien faces. They were alien after all. Human faces though? As a social species, not only we're evolved to process and recognize faces since we're born (and are so biased towards them we can see facial patterns in everything that even slightly resembles it), we're then trained since birth to recognize even minute expression as part of complex social interactions. We have so many points of reference for it, that when we see something that is standing out too much or just not quite right, our brain is just all 'huh? huh????', thus eliciting a sense of discomfort or uncanniness. So yea, I'm not surprised you're feeling weird that despite things technically lining up. Not only you have a library of faces and facial expressions in your brain to tap - you also have a living person to compare to the CG facsimile and you see that it may move or emote or speak... differently (beyond just acting), that (theoretical) muscles underneath may not be matching the real counterpart, that the skin wrinkles in a weird way and so on. And all those little things build up to a point where the game character may really feel quite different compared to people lending their faces for the CG model. Of course, as someone interested with human perception, I find such things fascinating, if you can't tell already, haha. Like, Haluk (or any other character mentioned above) being based on a real person, but acted and voiced by someone else - that is just so weird when I think about it and bound to create interesting results. Ok, sorry for rambling I think I've had this sitting in me. Thank you, so i wasn't going crazy. For a while now i felt like i was in Twilight Zone, and i was the only one on a jetliner seeing a gremlin tearing up the jet's wings.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 17, 2019 5:32:29 GMT
Thank you, so i wasn't going crazy. For a while now i felt like i was in Twilight Zone, and i was the only one on a jetliner seeing a gremlin tearing up the jet's wings. Sure, no prob We all have our own personal thresholds between uncanny and acceptable, influenced by factors like expectations, preferences or knowledge. Since I know quite a bit about stuff like CG or animation and so on, I think I suspend my disbelief well enough and thus accept quirks of computer graphics and animation to a point that I don't necessarily find them as distracting as some other people. I hope our discussion and pointing out where a lot of problems lay will help dull some of the edges of discomfort messing with your enjoyment of the medium.
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