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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 22, 2019 17:24:12 GMT
7 years and we get a soulless piece of drivel, do you honestly think they won’t screw da4? BioWare is so different from even 5 years ago. I think it’s time for BioWare to hang up their boots and let another studio do Dragon age 4.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 22, 2019 20:55:14 GMT
Yeah, I think you have it backwards. I want DA to maintain its current tone, which is, and always has been, fairly light-hearted. I have literally said some permutation of that sentence multiple times. 'Soap opera' is a term more befitting the humourless, gratuitously violent, juvenile melodrama that everyone else in here is asking for. IMO the tone has changed since DAO, and I'd like the next game to be closer to DAO than to DAI in tone.
Also, you should look up your definitions. And lastly, you are mistaken. I would be, in fact, quite delighted with MUCH less casual, gratuitous violence, because that doesn't mean anything. What I want is that the things we are presented with have emotional and intellectual impact, and have, regarding to emotional impact, negative and positive impact with the same intensity. That does not mean more bad stuff, but it does mean that the bad stuff there is is presented with more impact, rather than in ways that leave you almost untouched. It also means that there is, occasionally, conflict between heart and mind, and that the former does not always give you fitting direction. And I want all that to matter, rather than being not more than an expression of character that becomes irrelevant in the end.
As for humor, well, I can't argue with any DA game with regard to that. I like DAI's funny scenes, I like dorky Alistair, and I like sarcastic Hawke, though a full game of *that* was a little much. The thing is, the humor and generally the good stuff wasn't sanitized in DAI, but the bad stuff was. It left DAI unbalanced and somewhat stale as a whole even if single scenes could be very good.
You should watch a soap opera. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take anyone seriously who claims that the writing quality has declined because a game has less rape and gore in it. If that is even true, which I doubt. And 'sanitized', jesus christ, you're all just going to keep beating this poor word until it loses all meaning. It'll wind up in the mass grave where you dumped 'dark' and 'mature'.
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Post by Ieldra on Feb 22, 2019 21:09:49 GMT
IMO the tone has changed since DAO, and I'd like the next game to be closer to DAO than to DAI in tone.
Also, you should look up your definitions. And lastly, you are mistaken. I would be, in fact, quite delighted with MUCH less casual, gratuitous violence, because that doesn't mean anything. What I want is that the things we are presented with have emotional and intellectual impact, and have, regarding to emotional impact, negative and positive impact with the same intensity. That does not mean more bad stuff, but it does mean that the bad stuff there is is presented with more impact, rather than in ways that leave you almost untouched. It also means that there is, occasionally, conflict between heart and mind, and that the former does not always give you fitting direction. And I want all that to matter, rather than being not more than an expression of character that becomes irrelevant in the end.
As for humor, well, I can't argue with any DA game with regard to that. I like DAI's funny scenes, I like dorky Alistair, and I like sarcastic Hawke, though a full game of *that* was a little much. The thing is, the humor and generally the good stuff wasn't sanitized in DAI, but the bad stuff was. It left DAI unbalanced and somewhat stale as a whole even if single scenes could be very good.
You should watch a soap opera. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take anyone seriously who claims that the writing quality has declined because a game has less rape and gore in it. If that is even true, which I doubt. And 'sanitized', jesus christ, you're all just going to keep beating this poor word until it loses all meaning. It'll wind up in the mass grave where you dumped 'dark' and 'mature'. *Sigh* Why do I even bother?
You didn't even engage my argument, instead proclaiming you can't take me seriously for...something I never said. Well, let's say I can't take someone seriously who can't look at things without a modicum of detachment. Or is this personal?
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Partying like it's 1999
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Post by Little Bengel on Feb 22, 2019 21:29:26 GMT
IMO the tone has changed since DAO, and I'd like the next game to be closer to DAO than to DAI in tone. Also, you should look up your definitions. And lastly, you are mistaken. I would be, in fact, quite delighted with MUCH less casual, gratuitous violence, because that doesn't mean anything. What I want is that the things we are presented with have emotional and intellectual impact, and have, regarding to emotional impact, negative and positive impact with the same intensity. That does not mean more bad stuff, but it does mean that the bad stuff there is is presented with more impact, rather than in ways that leave you almost untouched. It also means that there is, occasionally, conflict between heart and mind, and that the former does not always give you fitting direction. And I want all that to matter, rather than being not more than an expression of character that becomes irrelevant in the end.
As for humor, well, I can't argue with any DA game with regard to that. I like DAI's funny scenes, I like dorky Alistair, and I like sarcastic Hawke, though a full game of *that* was a little much. The thing is, the humor and generally the good stuff wasn't sanitized in DAI, but the bad stuff was. It left DAI unbalanced and somewhat stale as a whole even if single scenes could be very good.
You should watch a soap opera. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take anyone seriously who claims that the writing quality has declined because a game has less rape and gore in it. If that is even true, which I doubt. And 'sanitized', jesus christ, you're all just going to keep beating this poor word until it loses all meaning. It'll wind up in the mass grave where you dumped 'dark' and 'mature'. Maybe I'm missing something, but where exactly did Ieldra say that the writing quality went down because of less rape/gore? Because I don't see any of that. What I do see are arguments in favour of better (not more) presentation of the worst parts of Thedas and for them to have more impact, on player and protagonist alike (at least that's how I interpreted it). Reducing this argument to a claim that "no rape and slaughter = bad writing" doesn't qualify as any sort of counter-argument.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 22, 2019 21:42:34 GMT
You should watch a soap opera. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take anyone seriously who claims that the writing quality has declined because a game has less rape and gore in it. If that is even true, which I doubt. And 'sanitized', jesus christ, you're all just going to keep beating this poor word until it loses all meaning. It'll wind up in the mass grave where you dumped 'dark' and 'mature'. *Sigh* Why do I even bother?
You didn't even engage my argument, instead proclaiming you can't take me seriously for...something I never said. Well, let's say I can't take someone seriously who can't look at things without a modicum of detachment. Or is this personal?
I can't engage, because it's meaningless. Whether or not something has emotional or intellectual impact is entirely up to the individual, and doesn't actually speak to the quality of the work at all. Unless you, finally, of all people on the forum, can SPECIFICALLY tell me what DAO had that DAI lacks, instead of making broad claims about 'sanitization', I'm going to assume you hold the same opinion as most everyone else on this forum, who, when you get right down to it, are just butthurt that video games don't cater exclusively to them anymore. So. In the interest of helping me understand what it is you actually want, give me some concrete examples. DAO is better than DAI because it had _____________________
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 22, 2019 21:56:22 GMT
*Sigh* Why do I even bother?
You didn't even engage my argument, instead proclaiming you can't take me seriously for...something I never said. Well, let's say I can't take someone seriously who can't look at things without a modicum of detachment. Or is this personal?
I can't engage, because it's meaningless. Whether or not something has emotional or intellectual impact is entirely up to the individual, and doesn't actually speak to the quality of the work at all. Unless you, finally, of all people on the forum, can SPECIFICALLY tell me what DAO had that DAI lacks, instead of making broad claims about 'sanitization', I'm going to assume you hold the same opinion as most everyone else on this forum, who, when you get right down to it, are just butthurt that video games don't cater exclusively to them anymore. So. In the interest of helping me understand what it is you actually want, give me some concrete examples. DAO is better than DAI because it had _____________________ Better writing, more consistent lore and a self-aware, consistent tone. DA:O knew exactly what it was- an old school tribute blended with dark fantasy.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 22, 2019 22:04:35 GMT
I can't engage, because it's meaningless. Whether or not something has emotional or intellectual impact is entirely up to the individual, and doesn't actually speak to the quality of the work at all. Unless you, finally, of all people on the forum, can SPECIFICALLY tell me what DAO had that DAI lacks, instead of making broad claims about 'sanitization', I'm going to assume you hold the same opinion as most everyone else on this forum, who, when you get right down to it, are just butthurt that video games don't cater exclusively to them anymore. So. In the interest of helping me understand what it is you actually want, give me some concrete examples. DAO is better than DAI because it had _____________________ Better writing, more consistent lore and a self-aware, consistent tone. DA:O knew exactly what it was- an old school tribute blended with dark fantasy. I asked for concrete examples.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 22, 2019 22:10:40 GMT
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 22, 2019 22:15:47 GMT
Yes, I asked for concrete examples in a subjective argument. I'm starting to worry that you don't know what those mean. Let me phrase it as simply as I possibly can. Tell me about a part of DAO that YOU think demonstrates its superiority (sorry, better-ness) to DAI, and tell me why you feel that way.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 22, 2019 22:21:53 GMT
Yes, I asked for concrete examples in a subjective argument. I'm starting to worry that you don't know what those mean. Let me phrase it as simply as I possibly can. Tell me about a part of DAO that YOU think demonstrates its superiority (sorry, better-ness) to DAI, and tell me why you feel that way. I just did dude, I'm not going to write an essay for you. And I pointed out that the majority of fans agree with me. DA:O is better.
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Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Feb 22, 2019 22:22:36 GMT
Yes, I asked for concrete examples in a subjective argument. I'm starting to worry that you don't know what those mean. Let me phrase it as simply as I possibly can. Tell me about a part of DAO that YOU think demonstrates its superiority (sorry, better-ness) to DAI, and tell me why you feel that way. Our protagonist can become visibly affected by the game's events. -DAO: Depending on whether or not you do the Dark Ritual, the Warden can die at the end. -DAI: Independently of our choices, the Inquisitor's situation doesn't change, and they win without much cost or sacrifice. We had to wait 10 months (Trespasser) to get something like that. I'll be quoting as I remember more.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 22, 2019 22:25:07 GMT
Yes, I asked for concrete examples in a subjective argument. I'm starting to worry that you don't know what those mean. Let me phrase it as simply as I possibly can. Tell me about a part of DAO that YOU think demonstrates its superiority (sorry, better-ness) to DAI, and tell me why you feel that way. Our protagonist can become visibly affected by the game's events. -DAO: Depending on whether or not you do the Dark Ritual, the Warden can die at the end. -DAI: Independently of our choices, the Inquisitor's situation doesn't change, and they win without much cost or sacrifice. We had to wait 10 months (Trespasser) to get something like that. I'll be quoting as I remember more. See? Salos gets it!
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 22, 2019 22:26:02 GMT
Yes, I asked for concrete examples in a subjective argument. I'm starting to worry that you don't know what those mean. Let me phrase it as simply as I possibly can. Tell me about a part of DAO that YOU think demonstrates its superiority (sorry, better-ness) to DAI, and tell me why you feel that way. I just did dude, I'm not going to write an essay for you. And I pointed out that the majority of fans agree with me. DA:O is better. Well you aren't the person I asked in the first place, so feel free to get lost.
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Post by Gwydden on Feb 22, 2019 22:26:22 GMT
I just did dude, I'm not going to write an essay for you. And I pointed out that the majority of fans agree with me. DA:O is better. DA:O is still my favorite Bioware game, but I will point out that your arguments amount to little more than an appeal to popularity and saying it has "better writing," which I suppose is marginally less vague than just saying it's better.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 22, 2019 22:32:14 GMT
In my mind I had all sorts of things, like bringing back stat customization, multiple tactical and story branching options, and the the like. But in the end, I think all of these are smaller iterations of a greater issue. For me, what Dragon Age 4 needs more than anything else is a re-commitment to respecting and empowering player choice. Let us be good, evil, wise, foolish, weird, unremarkably ordinary or anything in between. Let us choose who and what our characters actually care for, and to what extent. If we think our character would rather ignore or even oppose a particular person or group, let us, instead of catering to writers that want to punish players for not liking their vision . If those people had important connections and resources, give us alternatives and/or suffer the consequences, instead of dev hand holding and railroading. Also, it's not just the Role Playing, but the Game parts as well. Replaying Inquisition recently, I was struck by how many pathways actively required you have one of each class in your party (walls, locks, magical barriers), as well as mob encounters. What if I don't care for a particular class' builds, and want to play all of the same of a different class? What if I'd rather avoid enemies altogether? For all of it's flaws, class versatility was one of the things Origins did right, with options for ranged warriors and/or tank rogues and mages.
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Post by Gwydden on Feb 22, 2019 22:34:05 GMT
Our protagonist can become visibly affected by the game's events. -DAO: Depending on whether or not you do the Dark Ritual, the Warden can die at the end. -DAI: Independently of our choices, the Inquisitor's situation doesn't change, and they win without much cost or sacrifice. We had to wait 10 months (Trespasser) to get something like that. I'll be quoting as I remember more. Oh, I like this game! Here's one: Origins' origins helped introduce the setting in a way that was pertinent to the player without exposition overload, and made the Warden into a genuine part of the gameworld with his own personal history. Meanwhile, Inquisition's intro drops you in the middle of a melodramatic mess you have no reason to understand or care about. Your avatar literally drops from the sky and remains a nondescript blank slate for the entire game. Here's two! Every subplot in Origins had its own location we got to explore through extensive questing and dialogue before reaching its particular climax and having to make big, sweeping decisions. This contributed to player investment, and was just plain fun. Inquisition's main story is almost entirely divorced from its semi-open world design and keeps pulling this trick where it just drops you directly at the end of a storyline and hopes you give a rat's ass. Most obvious and most painful example of this is the ending.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,867 Likes: 3,483
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Post by ahglock on Feb 22, 2019 22:34:31 GMT
I just did dude, I'm not going to write an essay for you. And I pointed out that the majority of fans agree with me. DA:O is better. DA:O is still my favorite Bioware game, but I will point out that your arguments amount to little more than an appeal to popularity and saying it has "better writing," which I suppose is marginally less vague than just saying it's better. Too be fair in a entertainment medium popularity is a pretty objective measure.
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Post by Gwydden on Feb 22, 2019 22:35:38 GMT
Too be fair in a entertainment medium popularity is a pretty objective measure. An objective measure of what? I certainly hope you don't mean quality, because there's absolutely nothing objective about media criticism.
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Little Bengel
N3
Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 954 Likes: 2,622
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Partying like it's 1999
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Post by Little Bengel on Feb 22, 2019 22:37:35 GMT
Yes, I asked for concrete examples in a subjective argument. I'm starting to worry that you don't know what those mean. Let me phrase it as simply as I possibly can. Tell me about a part of DAO that YOU think demonstrates its superiority (sorry, better-ness) to DAI, and tell me why you feel that way. Our protagonist can become visibly affected by the game's events. -DAO: Depending on whether or not you do the Dark Ritual, the Warden can die at the end. -DAI: Independently of our choices, the Inquisitor's situation doesn't change, and they win without much cost or sacrifice. We had to wait 10 months (Trespasser) to get something like that. I'll be quoting as I remember more. Our origins feel more involved in the game. -DAO: They literally comprise the first major quest of the game, and the characters you interact with in these origins become play their own roles in the game, allowing for unique interactions and RP possibilites that end up feeling more genuine as a result. -DAI: They come up a few times in conversation, the characters involved are relegated to background mentions or War Table missions (without the possibility of reacting to them ourselves, to boot), and Morrigan lectures a Dalish Inquisitor on ancient elven lore that's common knowledge to them.EDIT: Our protagonist can become visibly affected by the game's events. -DAO: Depending on whether or not you do the Dark Ritual, the Warden can die at the end. -DAI: Independently of our choices, the Inquisitor's situation doesn't change, and they win without much cost or sacrifice. We had to wait 10 months (Trespasser) to get something like that. I'll be quoting as I remember more. Oh, I like this game! Here's one: Origins' origins helped introduce the setting in a way that was pertinent to the player without exposition overload, and made the Warden into a genuine part of the gameworld with his own personal history. Meanwhile, Inquisition's intro drops you in the middle of a melodramatic mess you have no reason to understand or care about. Your avatar literally drops from the sky and remains a nondescript blank slate for the entire game. Here's two! Every subplot in Origins had its own location we got to explore through extensive questing and dialogue before reaching its particular climax and having to make big, sweeping decisions. This contributed to player investment, and was just plain fun. Inquisition's main story is almost entirely divorced from its semi-open world design and keeps pulling this trick where it just drops you directly at the end of a storyline and hopes you give a rat's ass. Most obvious and most painful example of this is the ending. I can't believe I forgot those.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 22, 2019 22:43:37 GMT
Too be fair in a entertainment medium popularity is a pretty objective measure. An objective measure of what? I certainly hope you don't mean quality, because there's absolutely nothing objective about media criticism. No one is claiming aggregate scores are scientifically accurate, but they are generally representative. Most said Duke Nukem Forever is shit. Tell me that's not true.
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Post by Gwydden on Feb 22, 2019 22:47:54 GMT
No one is claiming aggregate scores are scientifically accurate, but they are generally representative. Most said Duke Nukem Forever is shit. Tell me that's not true. It may very well be true that most people say that, yes.
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Post by Verfallen on Feb 22, 2019 22:50:48 GMT
...And I pointed out that the majority of fans agree with me. DA:O is better. sigh Are we really back to this argument again? If you go by majority-think, 50 Shades is one of the best books ever. All of the DA games were good in different ways. Some preferred DAO, some DAII. I preferred Inquisition (and yes, I've played them all multiple times). They all had their flaws as well. I realize you were asked what you prefer about DAO, and that's fine -- outline away. But is it really necessary to go back into "my favourite game is better, so there!"?
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 22, 2019 22:52:43 GMT
...And I pointed out that the majority of fans agree with me. DA:O is better. sigh Are we really back to this argument again? If you go by majority-think, 50 Shades is one of the best books ever. All of the DA games were good in different ways. Some preferred DAO, some DAII. I preferred Inquisition (and yes, I've played them all multiple times). They all had their flaws as well. I realize you were asked what you prefer about DAO, and that's fine -- outline away. But is it really necessary to go back into "my favourite game is better, so there!"? How much did they sell, respectively?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 22, 2019 22:54:29 GMT
sigh Are we really back to this argument again? If you go by majority-think, 50 Shades is one of the best books ever. All of the DA games were good in different ways. Some preferred DAO, some DAII. I preferred Inquisition (and yes, I've played them all multiple times). They all had their flaws as well. I realize you were asked what you prefer about DAO, and that's fine -- outline away. But is it really necessary to go back into "my favourite game is better, so there!"? How much did they sell, respectively? Are you asking about 50 Shades or Dragon Age games?
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Post by slimgrin727 on Feb 22, 2019 22:58:04 GMT
How much did they sell, respectively? Are you asking about 50 Shades or Dragon Age games? I'm not asking for the Bioware Defense Force. Anyway, been fun.
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