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Post by Gwydden on Feb 23, 2019 14:19:19 GMT
When I see this discussions about moral choices, they usually boil down to one of two thing.
On the one hand, you get deontology versus utilitarianism e.g. do you only ever take actions that conform to your moral code, or do you make choices based on expected results? This is basically what Paragon versus Renegade was aiming for, and it's present in other Bioware games as well i.e. several major decisions in DA:O.
The most common alternative is to let players be assholes just because.
The first one's been done to death, so that if a Bioware game asks me one more time "is committing evil acts justified if the long-term overall consequences are good?" I will roll my eyes in exasperation. The main problem is that though Bioware loves that question (they seem to have trouble conceiving of difficult moral choices outside of it), they pretty much always end up answering NO for the player. And it's fine if that's what they think and want to get across, but it does remove any thematic ambiguity and reduces moral decisions to little more than an aesthetic choice.
Option Two is just boring. That's not how people behave, unless they're psychopaths. And, though they'd love you to believe otherwise, psychopaths are drearily dull.
I propose two alternatives of my own. One, so you want to do the right thing. That's great, but in reality the right thing isn't always clear, and even when it is doing it is hard. Otherwise everyone would do it all the time. Second, if you want the player to be morally compromised, rather than providing kick the puppy moments that do nothing for them, provide a compelling reason for the player being selfish, as well as risk for the opposite behavior.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 23, 2019 14:55:15 GMT
We did have the option to kill the Dog in Origins, but it would have died anyway without the flower... so I dunno, can we justify it as a mercy-killing, even though we could have saved it's life if we weren't a lazy so-and-so? It depends on how you roleplay. Sometimes, roleplaying does involve ignoring meta information in favor of how your character, who might have different experience than you in real life, would react. With the Connor choice, the game practically hits you over the head that going to the mages is the better option*, so if you want to not do that for roleplay reasons, some headcanon is involved. Heck, the mere act of seeing dialogue options you don't even take is meta information because it suggests to the player's mind.
I also like to be able to let my character make "bad" choices and then wonder about them later on. My Inquisitor picks the triad in WEWH, but then later wonders if it was a mistake. Under other circumstances, I would likely choose Celene as the sole ruler so she could eliminate the competition in whatever way she deems necessary and Orlais is no longer fractured. But that's not what my Inquisitor would do.
* I dislike that this is in the game at all, or at least without consequences. This. In retrospect, the Circle option for Connor incredibly pandering on the devs' part, and just dumb from a story point. Like the Desire demon was really just going to sit on it's ass while we get the mages, or anything else . It would have been more palatable if there were harder conditions, like completely saving the village and clearing out the castle, making a difficult Persuasion Check with Connor, leaving someone behind as backup (Alistair or Wynne would be good, Morrigan or Sten... not so much ), and most importantly, getting back before the Demon does further damage. But they didn't, and Origins suffered for it.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 23, 2019 15:24:06 GMT
This is one of my problems with some people assuming that just because they only play self inserts, that everyone does. That making fictional choices in a fictional video game has any bearing on their real life beliefs or desires. Speaking purely for myself, I use RPGs as a kind of collaborative writing where the PC is a separate character in their own story. Every alt I make has a distinct personality that evolves over the game, and sometimes not always for the better. Without "evil" choices, I can't explore the tragedies of heroes corrupted or broken, or the bittersweet triumph of villains finding redemption.
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Post by Little Bengel on Feb 23, 2019 16:01:41 GMT
This is one of my problems with some people assuming that just because they only play self inserts, that everyone does. That making fictional choices in a fictional video game has any bearing on their real life beliefs or desires. Speaking purely for myself, I use RPGs as a kind of collaborative writing where the PC is a separate character in their own story. Every alt I make has a distinct personality that evolves over the game, and sometimes not always for the better. Without "evil" choices, I can't explore the tragedies of heroes corrupted or broken, or the bittersweet triumph of villains finding redemption. This reminds me that I once had the idea of making a playthrough for each origin, with different approaches. My Human Noble (only one I ever completed) was a great guy to be around when you didn't try to piss him off, fair-minded (fitting, given the Couslands' general behavior), witty... he also had a couple major asshole moments, though. In a sheer contrast, my Dalish Elf was supposed to be a highly xenophobic hunter who hated humans for the situation they put the elves in, and only fought the Darkspawn because they were a threat to his people. Everyone else could fuck right off. Of course, my old PC then broke down, but that's a story for another day. Which I don't want to remember.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 17:13:51 GMT
This is one of my problems with some people assuming that just because they only play self inserts, that everyone does. That making fictional choices in a fictional video game has any bearing on their real life beliefs or desires. Speaking purely for myself, I use RPGs as a kind of collaborative writing where the PC is a separate character in their own story. Every alt I make has a distinct personality that evolves over the game, and sometimes not always for the better. Without "evil" choices, I can't explore the tragedies of heroes corrupted or broken, or the bittersweet triumph of villains finding redemption. Exactly. Holyshit. That you have to explain such simple concept in 2019, after several dragon age is just beyond me. I never play as myself obviously, all my characters are different. And more than anything , a lot of them follow the societal norm . I don't really like strong anachronism where modern notions and attitudes are overwhelming the personality of my character, within a medieval setting. In DA4, I do hope that the DA team will let me play a human noble in Tevinter that is okay with slavery, that doesn't necessarily support it, but considers it at least like the norm and doesn't see anything bad with it. It would be a shame if my only options would be to only consider it as evil, because bohoo today, of course in our own world it is bad. My character is-not-me. I'm even hoping that a companion tries to convince my character that this system is bad with an interesting discussion and approval / disapproval. But obviously, it's not myself who believe in slavery lmao. This is what is fun with roleplaying and that a few have so much difficulty to understand. You don't wanna play a bigot or a genocidal murderer ( meh, people have to realize that someone might commit such thing with reasons that he thinks himself justificated anyway ), okay, but hey, mind your own business and let me do whatever the hell I want with my character, thanks. This is just unbearable all those that feel the need to always control what others do in their game for fuck sake.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 23, 2019 17:17:28 GMT
How would you propose they do that? I can imagine a few different options - - Retcon the lore - Have authoritative characters actually preach (and I don't mean the Chant of Light - lol) - Disallow any choices that would reflect any form of bigotry - Have a bigoted choice end in a failure. Those last two are basically what I would like to see. And if BioWare wants to court the various minority gaming markets, then I think that's what they HAVE to do, sooner or later. They can't tell us we're welcome while allowing other players to commit genocidal acts against our blatantly obvious fantasy analogues. We're not blind. Offhand, I can't really think of any choices that resulted in outright genocide - unless you include carrying out the right of annulment - and then you're ignoring any other possible justifications for it and categorizing it as an act of pure bigotry. There's also Nature of the Beast, where you could wipe out either the werewolves or dalish clan - but I'm not sure which would be the more bigoted act. And you can never really know the player's (or MC's) motives for any of those choices. Is it anti blood mage bigotry to execute Jowan, or just punishment for his actions? Is it anti-golem bigotry to destroy the Anvil of the Void, anti-dwarf bigotry because you're robbing them of an important defensive tool, or an act to protect dwarves who might be forced to undergo the transition? I think it would be extremely difficult to wring every last possibility of bigotry in game choices. Some people don't like the fact that you can solve Nature of the Beast with minimal bloodshed or the Arl of Redcliffe with a quick trip to the Circle. Options such as these leave you easy outs and allow you to avoid some tough decisions. I remember reading a post (on a Fallout 4 gamefaqs forum) from someone who said he slaughtered any ghoul who showed up as a settler in any of his settlements. The things some people want to do in games never cease to astound me.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 23, 2019 17:28:29 GMT
People calling Iron Bull’s qun style acceptance of Krem preachy in favor of trans rights is hilarious to me because it’s actually really, really not a very positive reflection of the lgbt movement in the West. It’s basically like saying Iran has a great lgbt track record. The qun forces people to change their gender based off what stereotypes they fill, it’s not an lgbt paradise. It’s pretty horrific. I feel like people miss the point that it’s just about the qun’s weird authoritarian shit in a new morally grey package. It’s not the first time they’ve tried something similar. It’s a perfect demonstration of the qunari’s hypocrisy. They say that a woman cannot be a solider and a man cannot be a priest, but rather than waste the talents of individuals who are ideally suited to roles they aren’t “supposed” to be good at, they just declare them the opposite gender. “You’re a woman who can fight? Well, you must really be a man!” Hypocrisy or a different brand of sexism? It seems to me like the qunari have developed unique definitions of what it is to be a woman or man, based more on innate skills, interests, and vocation than bodily organs or reproductive role.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 23, 2019 18:01:07 GMT
This is a sincere question. What kind of bad actions are acceptable for the player/PC to take? I could understand if you only thought that taking those actions was not "rewarded" with success. For the above example, if killing the elves meant that the player essentially "failed" in that story section of the game, making their forces weaker to fight the archdemon. I think that would be an interesting consequence for the player to face, and further that it would be interesting to know how many players meta-game the choice or follow through with their character's heretofore ruthlessness. But your phrasing suggests that you would prefer the option not exist at all. For the record, I never take those options but I don't mind their existence because I believe such choices are in furtherance of roleplay. I think it's a perfectly legitimate choice to play as a ruthless bastard, even if it's not my thing for these games. I know that players don't want to be punished/penalised for picking something, but if makes the game more interesting to roleplay and provides a challenge, I'm totally for it. Becoming a Blood Mage or Assassin should make people more wary of you, meaning that you have to work twice as hard to get them on your side. This starts to venture into the whole story-lore/gameplay separation thing. I've actually specced Wynne into Blood Mage, just for the bonuses it provides (+2 con, +2 spellpower). I suppose I could have given her talents from the BM tree, too, but she would never be treated as a BM in game. I remember thinking it would be more realistic if Merrill would suffer an injury every time she used BM - or that allies should suffer an injury if a BM saps their health to fuel BM. Of course, there are additional specs that could influence others' opinions of your character, too. Should mages cop a 'tude toward a character who takes a Templar spec? How about Reaver or Berserker? As much as I appreciate that sort of realism in choices-with-consequences, I'm afraid that having NPCs react to specs would ultimately increase the demand for non-controversial specs. I suspect it's already a bit difficult for the combat designers to come up with things that are both lore appropriate and provide additional interesting abilities within some theme. I admit I've found it extremely difficult to play a mage Hawke. During my first attempt, I got to the point where Cullen says "mages aren't people like you and me" (or something along those lines), and I just... couldn't... get past that. For my part, I'm quite satisfied to have characters' race, class, and choices recognized in game, and can forego any other spec-related recognition. Oh, and BTW - I'm perfectly happy to see Patrick Weekes leading the DA writer's team.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 18:05:05 GMT
I don’t think any of the choices I can remember offhand went “too far” for me. There are choices I just never take for personal preference reasons, but none I thought shouldn’t be included because they’re too offensive or whatever.
The line for me is basically allowing real bigotry and a certain level of out of hand brutal violence. I remember on the old BSN there was a thread where multiple people argued your PC should be able to commit rape, which is literally unhinged to me. I don’t mean it can’t be a thing that bad guys do in game (nobles, Templars, etc), but not an option you have available. I’m not for hiring and murdering prostitutes, GTA style. No real life slurs against racial minorities, lgbt people or women. Just no “real” bigotry in the dialog choices. Things like “knife ear” and “shemlen” are fine.
Bioware already isn’t doing any of the shit that I would think is going too far, so I’m basically fine with things the way they are.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 23, 2019 18:22:58 GMT
Oh my god... Anyway, the thing about being a cunt ingame, and/or downright evil, is that I think it should be a detriment to you. You shouldn't be allowed to be evil without there being a negative effect, whether it's losing content, items, lore, squadmates... You reap what you sow. This is of course how I think it should specifically work in the Dragon Age series, but other RPG series can aim for another narrative. In order to do that, though, the writers would have to decide what is evil and what is not. Example: Is it evil to allow the dwarves continued use of the Anvil of the Void, or is it evil to deprive them of an essential defensive tool? I'm afraid that in order to clarify which acts are considered evil, the writers would dilute the grays and make everything more black and white. Is that really what you want?
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 23, 2019 18:34:18 GMT
Oh my god... Anyway, the thing about being a cunt ingame, and/or downright evil, is that I think it should be a detriment to you. You shouldn't be allowed to be evil without there being a negative effect, whether it's losing content, items, lore, squadmates... You reap what you sow. This is of course how I think it should specifically work in the Dragon Age series, but other RPG series can aim for another narrative. In order to do that, though, the writers would have to decide what is evil and what is not. Example: Is it evil to allow the dwarves continued use of the Anvil of the Void, or is it evil to deprive them of an essential defensive tool? I'm afraid that in order to clarify which acts are considered evil, the writers would dilute the grays and make everything more black and white. Is that really what you want? In what route would it not be evil to kill children? Or to call a gay person a gross buttpirate (in more harsh tones)? Or to rape people? Or to abuse animals? Or to joke about Vivienne's skin color?
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 23, 2019 18:37:16 GMT
One man's hero is another man's murderer. The problem with punishing people for being a dickhead (other than that I don't play video games to be lectured at by developers) is that there's no line where if you cross it you're a dick and if you don't you're not. 100 different people will have 100 different views on what precisely dickish behaviour is. That may sometimes be the case, but quite often the evil is pretty clear. For instance, we don't need to debate whether the elves' treatment in Orlais is racist, do we? It's perfectly clear that it is.
Having said that, it's very likely you will not be punished in Orlais for racist behaviour, because it's unlikely an elf will be in a position to deny you something important there. So a *pattern* of you being punished for racist behaviour would be highly unrealistic, though of course any single situation can be constructed so that you are.
This is, btw., an example of what I mean with "verisimilitude". Real-world morality should interfere as little as possible with the workings of the fictional world. Where they're congruent, it's no problem enforcing real-world morality as the morality of the fictional world and the culture your character resides in, where they're not, it should most definitely not be enforced. An Orlesian noble can usually get away with being a racist asshole, so if you are an Orlesian noble in good standing with your peers, you should be able to get away with it, too.
If the game allows you to behave that way, though, there could be some consequences. Elven followers attacking/leaving, any other elven NPC refusing to work with you, the staff in open rebellion, etc.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 23, 2019 18:42:07 GMT
In order to do that, though, the writers would have to decide what is evil and what is not. Example: Is it evil to allow the dwarves continued use of the Anvil of the Void, or is it evil to deprive them of an essential defensive tool? I'm afraid that in order to clarify which acts are considered evil, the writers would dilute the grays and make everything more black and white. Is that really what you want? In what route would it not be evil to kill children? Or to call a gay person a gross buttpirate (in more harsh tones)? Or to rape people? Or to abuse animals? Or to joke about Vivienne's skin color? The Connor case for a start.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 23, 2019 18:43:27 GMT
In what route would it not be evil to kill children? Or to call a gay person a gross buttpirate (in more harsh tones)? Or to rape people? Or to abuse animals? Or to joke about Vivienne's skin color? The Connor case for a start.
That's not just a child and you know it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 18:44:05 GMT
In order to do that, though, the writers would have to decide what is evil and what is not. Example: Is it evil to allow the dwarves continued use of the Anvil of the Void, or is it evil to deprive them of an essential defensive tool? I'm afraid that in order to clarify which acts are considered evil, the writers would dilute the grays and make everything more black and white. Is that really what you want? In what route would it not be evil to kill children? I don't know. Killing a demon inside of that child, like it was the case with Connor ? There are two cases like that in DAO. The goody two shoes solution was hilarious as fuck by the way, with Connor. There is nothing more irrealistic and bad as a solution than that ? " Oh wait, I'm going to leave the castle, leaving the demon hidden behind, looking for the mages in the circle ", the circle that it would take days to reach. The realistic outcome should have been that while the warden was gone, the demon became strong again and killed everyone during his absence, and dominated again the castle, even more cautious after. The only two solutions good enough were either using blood magic with Morrigan or killing the child and the demon at the same time. You can call it evil, l call it a necessary mean. Thanksfully Gaider admitted there should have been bad consequences for those naive folks who chose that option. In real life, in history, people that took the bad decisions because of the inadequacy of their emotional or naive thoughts happened a lot.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 23, 2019 18:47:18 GMT
The Connor case for a start.
That's not just a child and you know it. Real life is hardly absent of children doing monstrous things. If that was transplanted to a fantasy setting i don't see why killing a child would be beyond the pall but killing an adult is ok.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 23, 2019 19:03:59 GMT
That's not just a child and you know it. Real life is hardly absent of children doing monstrous things. If that was transplanted to a fantasy setting i don't see why killing a child would be beyond the pall but killing an adult is ok.
But in real life we don't kill children who have done monstrous things, because we know better, and because it's evil. I'm still not saying that killing children, raping people, abusing animals and brainwashing gay people with blood magic to be straight should be exempt from video games, but that doing evil things have negative consequences, IN THE CASE OF DRAGON AGE, that is most of the time a heroic story. A freaking, heroic, story. If you want to develop a game where you can sell your children for sex slavery because you need money, rape your wife so she can birth more kids to sell to slavery, kill your lesbian sister for liking women, start a purification of wrong skin colored people without the game acknowledging that these are evil things and that shit might come back to bite you heavily, great, do it, but I don't want Dragon Age specifically to become that.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 23, 2019 19:09:29 GMT
In order to do that, though, the writers would have to decide what is evil and what is not. Example: Is it evil to allow the dwarves continued use of the Anvil of the Void, or is it evil to deprive them of an essential defensive tool? I'm afraid that in order to clarify which acts are considered evil, the writers would dilute the grays and make everything more black and white. Is that really what you want? In what route would it not be evil to kill children? If a child is in league with a demon who is raining death and destruction on a nearby village every night, maybe you need to end them to protect everyone else? There's a quest in Assassin's Creed Odyssey where you find some priests in the process of burning down a village and killing everyone there. They claim they're trying to prevent the spread of a disease. There is a family about to be slaughtered, claiming that they feel fine, begging you to save them. If you do, you find out later that the disease has spread to the entire island - and beyond. Okay, you seem to be going with hypotheticals here. I don't recall DA ever allowing the MC to do any of those things, and would be very disappointed if it did.
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 23, 2019 19:09:46 GMT
I don’t think any of the choices I can remember offhand went “too far” for me. There are choices I just never take for personal preference reasons, but none I thought shouldn’t be included because they’re too offensive or whatever. The line for me is basically allowing real bigotry and a certain level of out of hand brutal violence. I remember on the old BSN there was a thread where multiple people argued your PC should be able to commit rape, which is literally unhinged to me. I don’t mean it can’t be a thing that bad guys do in game (nobles, Templars, etc), but not an option you have available. I’m not for hiring and murdering prostitutes, GTA style. No real life slurs against racial minorities, lgbt people or women. Just no “real” bigotry in the dialog choices. Things like “knife ear” and “shemlen” are fine. Bioware already isn’t doing any of the shit that I would think is going too far, so I’m basically fine with things the way they are. Yeah there's choices i wouldn't do but equally i'm fine for others to roleplay within limits.
I don't mind the hiring of prostitutes, though its not something i think of as a priority outside of showing it exists.
As you say there's plenty of fantasy insults based on the lore so why would you bring in real world minority insults. I'm certainly happy with them not adding committing rape.
Though i do recall Gaider discussing the potential scene involcing an envy demon impersonating leliana and sleeping with the player and some writers were calling it rapey. It may have ended up not making sense for the demon in question but i certainly wouldn't be going that it was unacceptable from some perceived rape angle.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 19:14:41 GMT
Heroic doesn't mean goody two shoes. It usually means saving the world, not that you are perfect with your morals. In DAO, I have several protagonists who are racists, who gave the free city elves to slavers, who stole the girlfriend of one of the dalatians and slept with her while he asked them to help him seducing her. And yet these same characters were considered as heroic. And no, being a racist, or a bigot, doesn't and shouldn't always bring negatives consequences, especially when it's the norm in a society like Tevinter or Orlais.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 19:16:47 GMT
I don’t think any of the choices I can remember offhand went “too far” for me. There are choices I just never take for personal preference reasons, but none I thought shouldn’t be included because they’re too offensive or whatever. The line for me is basically allowing real bigotry and a certain level of out of hand brutal violence. I remember on the old BSN there was a thread where multiple people argued your PC should be able to commit rape, which is literally unhinged to me. I don’t mean it can’t be a thing that bad guys do in game (nobles, Templars, etc), but not an option you have available. I’m not for hiring and murdering prostitutes, GTA style. No real life slurs against racial minorities, lgbt people or women. Just no “real” bigotry in the dialog choices. Things like “knife ear” and “shemlen” are fine. Bioware already isn’t doing any of the shit that I would think is going too far, so I’m basically fine with things the way they are. Yeah there's choices i wouldn't do but equally i'm fine for others to roleplay within limits.
I don't mind the hiring of prostitutes, though its not something i think of as a priority outside of showing it exists.
As you say there's plenty of fantasy insults based on the lore so why would you bring in real world minority insults. I'm certainly happy with them not adding committing rape.
Though i do recall Gaider discussing the potential scene involcing an envy demon impersonating leliana and sleeping with the player and some writers were calling it rapey. It may have ended up not making sense for the demon in question but i certainly wouldn't be going that it was unacceptable from some perceived rape angle.
To be clear, it’s not hiring prostitutes that I thought was too much. I don’t care if it is or isn’t a thing, but the GTA style of allowing you to hire them and then kill them to take back your money, I think is too much. One is arguably a consensual trade of goods and services, while the other is murder and (IMO) rape.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 23, 2019 19:17:33 GMT
Real life is hardly absent of children doing monstrous things. If that was transplanted to a fantasy setting i don't see why killing a child would be beyond the pall but killing an adult is ok.
But in real life we don't kill children who have done monstrous things, because we know better, and because it's evil. I'm still not saying that killing children, raping people, abusing animals and brainwashing gay people with blood magic to be straight should be exempt from video games, but that doing evil things have negative consequences, IN THE CASE OF DRAGON AGE, that is most of the time a heroic story. A freaking, heroic, story. If you want to develop a game where you can sell your children for sex slavery because you need money, rape your wife so she can birth more kids to sell to slavery, kill your lesbian sister for liking women, start a purification of wrong skin colored people without the game acknowledging that these are evil things and that shit might come back to bite you heavily, great, do it, but I don't want Dragon Age specifically to become that. I'm not arguing for those things. I just think its bizarre to set some arbitrary age point where its suddenly ok in a fantasy game to kill an adult regardless of their guilt but its not to kill someone younger even if they've committed vile crimes. Isn't Joffrey 14 in the GOT books when he's killed.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 23, 2019 19:18:04 GMT
In what route would it not be evil to kill children? If a child is in league with a demon who is raining death and destruction on a nearby village every night, maybe you need to end them to protect everyone else? There's a quest in Assassin's Creed Odyssey where you find some priests in the process of burning down a village and killing everyone there. They claim they're trying to prevent the spread of a disease. There is a family about to be slaughtered, claiming that they feel fine, begging you to save them. If you do, you find out later that the disease has spread to the entire island - and beyond. Okay, you seem to be going with hypotheticals here. I don't recall DA ever allowing the MC to do any of those things, and would be very disappointed if it did. But the thing is, and this is my issue: I generally RP a character who doesn't oppose Dorian's views in slavery, wants to put mages in cages and generally looks down on Dalish wackos. All in all, I like playing a scumbag character, as surprising as it is after my whining about evil. But as we talk about what kind of evil there should be in Dragon Age, and I'm completely fine with the current racial issues and mage issues that take on the symbolism of real life oppression, how can I defend anti-gay, anti-poc, anti-woman remarks being in the game? How can I be fine with one type of issues being brought up, but then don't want other types of issues being brought up that would take away from my experience in the game? This is a battle I have when it comes to talking about evil in RPGs and evil choices. If we allow one type of oppression and evil to exist, why isn't being an evil son of a bitch permitted in other ways?
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Post by githcheater on Feb 23, 2019 19:45:10 GMT
WOW??? Unbelievable. To quote Gaspard about Briala in The Masked Empire ... You are dangerous. Nature of the Beast, A Paragon of Her Kind, Broken Circle, The Arl of Redcliffe, the Dwarf Commoner Origin, the City Elf Origin are all excellent quests that "fall short" of Disney ideals. Eliminating these quests from DAO, or sanitizing future DA tiles would NOT be positive change. I certainly hope that Bioware does not bow to the forces of political correctness, and throw the Dragon Age franchise into ordinariness. Yeah I love the darker choices in me and da games. It’s part of being able to role play. i have desire to see certain choices sanitized or punished. Punished is OK ... Actions have consequences. However, I draw the line at sanitizing or censoring a game based on a right wing or left wing agenda ... and I do not want to be preached to based on political agenda.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Feb 23, 2019 19:49:44 GMT
Dragon Age should have it's own moral values, perhaps different to our own, and then be true to those going forward. I feel like they achieved that with DAO, but then started to lean further left as time went on and impose IRL values into a supposedly early medieval fantasy world.
It ruins the immersion for me. Even if they do something despicable, if it's right for that world, then fine.
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