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Post by river82 on Apr 9, 2019 23:07:38 GMT
As I expected, there is absolutely no useful info in this article at all to tell me whether DA4 is going to be a game I might actually want to play. Because the game is still years out from release. People who were expecting concrete info on DA4 were always going to be disappointed
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 9, 2019 23:08:00 GMT
Well, the 'story about spies' is a very spacious concept, so that doesn't really tell us much on its own... who will be spying whom, or infiltrating who, sniffing out who, or who we will (presumably) steal valuable stuff from, or whether it will be more about going outy and organize skirmishes and incite tensions or doing covert research and planning actions with potentially huuuuge consequences (like the Qunari did in Trespasser) and so on. There's a ton of stuff spies can do, and that's aside from not knowing who we may turn out to work for We may guess, based on past material, but even that can lead us to nowhere. (my two potential wishes that we may be actually working for secretive Executors, orrrrr we may be ourselves spies who are supposed to spy on organization and friends we officially work with can still materialize too ) I'd hate Anthem with dragons. But I would have LOVED Alpha Protocol with dragons! Damn right. That game was a goddamn treasure. I'm still waiting on a sequel/reboot.
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Post by bladefist on Apr 9, 2019 23:10:06 GMT
That was a HORRIBLE decision. Originally Hawke was supposed to carry the series through but the character wasn't well received so Hawke was abandoned. Citation needed. From my understanding DAI was always going to have a new protagonist They never said that he will be the main protag for the rest of the games but at one point Hawke was being marketed as "The Most Important Person In The DA Universe." He fell short of that title and there was backlash. Many players didn't want Commander Shepard in their Dragonage and they started calling the game Dragon Effect. Inquisition was then announced with a new human only protagonist. They believed that a human only protag will allow them to tell a better story. As a fan service other races were allowed to be the Inquisitor.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 9, 2019 23:10:27 GMT
As I expected, there is absolutely no useful info in this article at all to tell me whether DA4 is going to be a game I might actually want to play. Because the game is still years out from release. People who were expecting concrete info on DA4 were always going to be disappointed I'm not "disappointed", I was expecting a fat load of nothing to begin with.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 9, 2019 23:12:49 GMT
Citation needed. From my understanding DAI was always going to have a new protagonist They never said that he will be the main protag for the rest of the games but at one point Hawke was being marketed as "The Most Important Person In The DA Universe." He fell short of that title and there was backlash. Well, in hindsight, Hawke's actions did indeed have tremendous ramifications for all of Thedas. Not only did they (unintentionally) aid Anders in starting the Mage-Templar War, but Hawke unleashed both Corypheus and the red lyrium idol on Thedas. Two of their allies are now the rulers of Kirkwall and Starkhaven, and even the qunari's latest assault on Tevinter may be influenced by the fact that they killed the Arishok.
I think "most important person in Thedas" is a bit overselling it, but there's no question that a lot of world-altering ripples originated with this one Fereldan refugee.
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 9, 2019 23:14:50 GMT
Oof. Another article? Shreier twice in a row blacklisted by Bioware. First Bethesda now BW, and all he has to do is expose the truth. Actual gaming journalism, so rare. If there's one thing Jason Schreier has exposed in this particular article is that he has very little in terms of actual concrete information on DA4, hence 70% of whole article is a rehash of what we know already and 25% is his own speculation on the matter, with maybe 5% of what we could consider as new (albeit super-vague and possibly somewhat outdated) info... The details on Joplin are the only new thing, really. The general gist of it sounded good, but a focus on heists... gonna be a yikes from me. I hope they stick with the spy protagonist plan, though, that'd be cool.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 23:21:58 GMT
If there's one thing Jason Schreier has exposed in this particular article is that he has very little in terms of actual concrete information on DA4, hence 70% of whole article is a rehash of what we know already and 25% is his own speculation on the matter, with maybe 5% of what we could consider as new (albeit super-vague and possibly somewhat outdated) info... The details on Joplin are the only new thing, really. The general gist of it sounded good, but a focus on heists... gonna be a yikes from me. I hope they stick with the spy protagonist plan, though, that'd be cool. Even the article underlines that "it was all very ambitious and very early, and would have no doubt changed drastically once Joplin entered production", so I don't think we can talk about anything concrete even at a time DA4 was still Joplin, much less now, 1,5 year after reboot and the game either in full production or nearing it. And they could take the whole spy thing into many different directions (or already took it, we just don't know where it is ).
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Post by river82 on Apr 9, 2019 23:35:05 GMT
My whole beef with the spy genre is that it's a genre specialised in avoiding combat, whereas most multiplayer games are games about combat (unless you're playing sport games).
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 9, 2019 23:46:36 GMT
Citation needed. From my understanding DAI was always going to have a new protagonist They never said that he will be the main protag for the rest of the games but at one point Hawke was being marketed as "The Most Important Person In The DA Universe." He fell short of that title and there was backlash. Many players didn't want Commander Shepard in their Dragonage and they started calling the game Dragon Effect. Inquisition was then announced with a new human only protagonist. They believed that a human only protag will allow them to tell a better story. As a fan service other races were allowed to be the Inquisitor. My memory of that is a bit different. I remember 'Dragon Effect' referring to how much of the style of game (DA2) was imitating Mass Effect 2. Iconic looks for companions, more simplified RPG elements, story structure, stuff like that. I don't recall Hawke being a factor in that, and it was the only game with Hawke at the time, so no reason to suspect they would continue as protagonist.
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Post by Frost on Apr 9, 2019 23:54:15 GMT
Nothing sounds good to me in that article, which is annoying because I was ready to be excited for this game. I had hoped for an AC:O-style live service. If they have multiplayer mixed in with single player, there is no way I would pay full price for that.
The heist theme also doesn't sound good to me. Since we are going to Tevinter, I was hoping for more focus on magic and a more serious, epic, and lore-based plot.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 9, 2019 23:56:31 GMT
My whole beef with the spy genre is that it's a genre specialised in avoiding combat, whereas most multiplayer games are games about combat (unless you're playing sport games). Unlikely we'd go there - I don't think we'd be *that* kind of spies, or at least it won't be that frequent. Even in comic books leading us to DA4 there's a lot of fighting between and during the heisty bits, and of course Solas and Iron Bull are de facto spies that fought on our side until they didn't, if we are to infer what's already in Dragon Age (+Leli sent to assess situation in Kirkwall in DA2 also counts IMO). Never mind stories even entirely outside of realm of games, with massive franchises like James Bond technically being about a spy, yet being mostly about combat
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Post by wickedcool on Apr 9, 2019 23:59:37 GMT
The spy thing sounds somewhat similar to the da2 dlc which introduced sneaking around. Any chance the person who created that idea had input in this Has he been right in past stories or is this throw a ton against a wall. Does he have a legit source
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 10, 2019 0:03:52 GMT
Nothing sounds good to me in that article, which is annoying because I was ready to be excited for this game. I had hoped for an AC:O-style live service. If they have multiplayer mixed in with single player, there is no way I would pay full price for that. The heist theme also doesn't sound good to me. Since we are going to Tevinter, I was hoping for more focus on magic and a more serious, epic, and lore-based plot. ...And why assume it won't be, even if it's focused on spying? We don't know in what context the spying would happen and Solas himself basically appears to be an ancient elvhen spymaster who we'd probably have to outmaneuver in a covert bid to control the fate of the whole world. Like... we know the stakes couldn't be higher and the foe no more worthy (given that the guy has basically created modern Thedas with his actions) and all of it will likely happen while more and more Tevinter is mired in open war with Qunari, who themselves may have plans towards the Veil (as suggested in Trespasser). In other words... I don't think the issue may be lack of epicness or seriousness, in fact the issue may be with there being too much of it if they're not careful with pacing and story scope management.
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Post by isaidlunch on Apr 10, 2019 0:09:18 GMT
The spy thing sounds somewhat similar to the da2 dlc which introduced sneaking around. Any chance the person who created that idea had input in this Has he been right in past stories or is this throw a ton against a wall. Does he have a legit source The lead writer wrote a heist mission in ME2 and has a book series literally about heists. If the idea is anyone's, it's probably his.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 10, 2019 0:22:55 GMT
Citation needed. From my understanding DAI was always going to have a new protagonist They never said that he will be the main protag for the rest of the games but at one point Hawke was being marketed as "The Most Important Person In The DA Universe." He fell short of that title and there was backlash. Many players didn't want Commander Shepard in their Dragonage and they started calling the game Dragon Effect. Inquisition was then announced with a new human only protagonist. They believed that a human only protag will allow them to tell a better story. As a fan service other races were allowed to be the Inquisitor. He certainly fell short, but I still don't think he was ever meant to be the Inquisitor: As Mike Laidlaw said on the old Bioware forum: biowarefans.com/2011/08/dragon-age-3-will-feature-a-new-protagonist/Since I'm in a sharing mood, I will put this out there: our intention is that for each major release of Dragon Age, you will take up the mantle of a new character. This does not mean your old character may never appear in future games, but as far as the core protagonist goes, if there is a DA III, it will very likely be neither Hawke nor The Warden.
We want to keep the series about the time and place, rather than about any singular character. While I know not everyone prefers that approach, I believe it's perfectly valid, especially if certain plans of ours to shore up world consistency (import bugs really bother me!) come to fruition, which I believe they will.
And that's all I can say about that.
Of course, he's long gone now, so EA can probably mandate whatever the hell they want...
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 10, 2019 0:30:11 GMT
I don't mind a heist game, but how would that work on Frostbite? And how would it fit with the genre.
Maybe as a Gaiden game, but not as a main installment.
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Post by Masque on Apr 10, 2019 0:39:41 GMT
I didn't really glean a whole lot of information from the article. In fact, it seemed to just be rehashing the various issues that plagued Anthem and BioWare in general. The premise of being spies in Tevinter was kinda intriguing, as was the concept of making DA4 smaller, more story/choice driven and less filler (aka sidequests). As for Laidlaw leaving per the reboot "live service" issue, the timing seems right and I personally speculated that might possibly be the reason for his departure. Of course he wouldn't acknowledge that as a professional.
I don't know what "live service" entails so I'm withholding judgement at the moment. Until something more substantial is revealed, I'm gonna just keep following the forums -especially the Twitter feed- and keep my fingers crossed.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 10, 2019 0:46:39 GMT
So i don't know what the intent of the author is or how fans are reacting but the more i think about it the more psyched i become. Granted we don't know how much of Joplin will survive when Morrison comes out but i don't imagine the story beats will be changed dramatically because of new code and design doctrine. But that plot outline sounds super dope.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 10, 2019 1:07:06 GMT
I wanted to bring up the matter people don't really seem to mind, and it's a bit puzzling to me. It was mentioned in the Anthem article and in this one too.
This idea of pulling people off other projects to help on "that one project that is about to launch and we are only half way in". I don't know how every company in the world works, but my understanding of the concept is that doing this is monumentally stupid.
One, you don't necessarily improve how fast that other project is going to be finished just because you took all your people from other parts of your company and tossed them in this one. Usually, that's not how it works. As far as I know, each team working on different projects have to figure their own stuff, one thing is having advice from different departments or a bit of "re organization" , but taking 90% of your staff working on other undertakings and put them to work in something else just because it's "near the deadline" is hardly a good idea. It's a waste of resources in the form of manpower and money too.
It's like I'm facing a problem, I tried 10 different things and just can't figure out how to solve it. I bring 20 people to try to help me out, they'll try out those same 10 things just because they need to know I didn't make a mistake, and in the meantime they are not working on their own stuff, I'm halting someone else's job. Waste of time and resources.
This idea of EA pulling people off Anthem to help them get shit done in FIFA just because is the "money maker" yells mismanagement (no shit, Sherlock). When Mass Effect needs "all hands on deck" because you wasted most of your time and resources doing god knows what, pulling 99% of Dragon Age staff to help ME doesn't sound like the right thing to do, and it happens again and again for future games. I think this must stop, as much the crunch time, this is a detriment to their work and how they get things done.
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Post by river82 on Apr 10, 2019 1:08:46 GMT
They never said that he will be the main protag for the rest of the games but at one point Hawke was being marketed as "The Most Important Person In The DA Universe." He fell short of that title and there was backlash. Many players didn't want Commander Shepard in their Dragonage and they started calling the game Dragon Effect. Inquisition was then announced with a new human only protagonist. They believed that a human only protag will allow them to tell a better story. As a fan service other races were allowed to be the Inquisitor. My memory of that is a bit different. I remember 'Dragon Effect' referring to how much of the style of game (DA2) was imitating Mass Effect 2. Iconic looks for companions, more simplified RPG elements, story structure, stuff like that. I don't recall Hawke being a factor in that, and it was the only game with Hawke at the time, so no reason to suspect they would continue as protagonist. This is mostly correct. The people saying they didn't want Dragon Age to follow Mass Effect were talking about the small linear dungeons, the action combat, the dialogue wheel, and simplified RPG elements. There was also a complaint about a pre-defined character (Hawke) being similar to ME's pre-defined character (Shepard) but it was one complaint of many.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 10, 2019 1:09:54 GMT
The spy thing sounds somewhat similar to the da2 dlc which introduced sneaking around. Any chance the person who created that idea had input in this Has he been right in past stories or is this throw a ton against a wall. Does he have a legit source The lead writer wrote a heist mission in ME2 and has a book series literally about heists. If the idea is anyone's, it's probably his. ...Should I mention that one of final Trespasser scenes (the one where companions walk away from Inky) has been directly inspired by Ocean's Eleven? With that said, a game is hardly ever a one man's/auteur vision. Not a single DA/ME/BW game is or will be "Patrick Weekes' game", nor it was "Mike Laidlaw's game". Games like that are a team effort.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 10, 2019 1:13:24 GMT
I wanted to bring up the matter people don't really seem to mind, and it's a bit puzzling to me. It was mentioned in the Anthem article and in this one too. This idea of pulling people off other projects to help on "that one project that is about to launch and we are only half way in". I don't know how every company in the world works, but my understanding of the concept is that doing this is monumentally stupid. One, you don't necessarily improve how fast that other project is going to be finished just because you took all your people from other parts of your company and tossed them in this one. Usually, that's not how it works. As far as I know, each team working on different projects have to figure their own stuff, one thing is having advice from different departments or a bit of "re organization" , but taking 90% of your staff working on other undertakings and put them to work in something else just because it's "near the deadline" is hardly a good idea. It's a waste of resources in the form of manpower and money too. It's like I'm facing a problem, I tried 10 different things and just can't figure out how to solve it. I bring 20 people to try to help me out, they'll try out those same 10 things just because they need to know I didn't make a mistake, and in the meantime they are not working on their own stuff, I'm halting someone else's job. Waste of time and resources. This idea of EA pulling people off Anthem to help them get shit done in FIFA just because is the "money maker" yells mismanagement (no shit, Sherlock). When Mass Effect needs "all hands on deck" because you wasted most of your time and resources doing god knows what, pulling 99% of Dragon Age staff to help ME doesn't sound like the right thing to do, and it happens again and again for future games. I think this must stop, as much the crunch time, this is a detriment to their work and how they get things done. That’s logical, but apparently MEA and Anthem were such dumpster fires that all hands on deck were necessary to push them out the door in a playable form.
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Post by river82 on Apr 10, 2019 1:16:27 GMT
The lead writer wrote a heist mission in ME2 and has a book series literally about heists. If the idea is anyone's, it's probably his. ...Should I mention that one of final Trespasser scenes (the one where companions walk away from Inky) has been directly inspired by Ocean's Eleven? Not to mention The Palace Job is sometimes described as "Ocean's 11 in fantasy-land"
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Post by colfoley on Apr 10, 2019 1:18:32 GMT
I wanted to bring up the matter people don't really seem to mind, and it's a bit puzzling to me. It was mentioned in the Anthem article and in this one too. This idea of pulling people off other projects to help on "that one project that is about to launch and we are only half way in". I don't know how every company in the world works, but my understanding of the concept is that doing this is monumentally stupid. One, you don't necessarily improve how fast that other project is going to be finished just because you took all your people from other parts of your company and tossed them in this one. Usually, that's not how it works. As far as I know, each team working on different projects have to figure their own stuff, one thing is having advice from different departments or a bit of "re organization" , but taking 90% of your staff working on other undertakings and put them to work in something else just because it's "near the deadline" is hardly a good idea. It's a waste of resources in the form of manpower and money too. It's like I'm facing a problem, I tried 10 different things and just can't figure out how to solve it. I bring 20 people to try to help me out, they'll try out those same 10 things just because they need to know I didn't make a mistake, and in the meantime they are not working on their own stuff, I'm halting someone else's job. Waste of time and resources. This idea of EA pulling people off Anthem to help them get shit done in FIFA just because is the "money maker" yells mismanagement (no shit, Sherlock). When Mass Effect needs "all hands on deck" because you wasted most of your time and resources doing god knows what, pulling 99% of Dragon Age staff to help ME doesn't sound like the right thing to do, and it happens again and again for future games. I think this must stop, as much the crunch time, this is a detriment to their work and how they get things done. I think it really depends on WHEN you do the moving. I mean Joplin was 'cancelled' so its a moot point at this point anyways but if project A is barely off the ground then shifting them to project B makes some sense because project A hasn't had alot of work to do in the first place. Likewise if project A is done/ almost done then they can switch them to the 'new project' with little lost work since the first project is wrapped up. You are right that they need to be brought up to speed anyways but then if Morisson isn't that deep into production then they can be brought up to speed that much quickly. Also the article DID mention that Laidlaw and everyone was trying to figure out ways of creating proper documentation in order to get everyone caught up to speed quickly.
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Post by melbella on Apr 10, 2019 1:52:58 GMT
the original ideas for DA4 (Joplin) sounded amazing Being locked into playing a Tevinter spy (for whom? would we even know?) and doing "heists" as a large part of the game both sound awful. Not that the "reboot" is sounding any better though. Man, 4+ years and 3 more to go for shite like this? I think I need to find a new favorite game universe because this one isn't looking to be going in a direction I like.
but maybe a friend can hop in if you want?
I read 'friend' as 'fiend' and thought that might at least make things more exciting!
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