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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 18, 2016 16:59:18 GMT
EDIT- PLEASE READ:
These posts have been moved from Unpopular Opinions because they were off-topic for that thread, but interesting discussion on their own. This thread is now for discussing cultural differences, not just between Canada and the US but any cultural comparisons you might like to make. Please do not let this thread devolve into "us vs them", be respectful of differences and as always follow the site rules and expectations!
So long as it means American lives are safe and secure down the line (which generally also means other friendly countries lives as well, if allied governments follow suit with their own constituencies), and our interests are secure, I've not a problem at all with how the government pursues the issues relentlessly. Granted, I'm of the opinion that ISIS is not the problem, but rather it's the return of state actors such as Russia. The way I see it, our countries are bros, by necessity, proximity, culture, and outside perception, if not preference across the board. If something happens to you, I don't see it going well for us. So my hope is we both continue to thrive, have each other's backs and you don't fuck up. I mean no disrespect with that last, it's just that globally, you're a much bigger and more active player than we are. So logically you run a higher risk than we do. Bah, conventional warfare and physical violence. Simply destroy a country's economy, culture and divide its people. Then watch it burn itself to the ground from a safe distance while you're having a good laugh and a cold beer in your hand. Seems like a lot of work though...
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 18, 2016 17:05:02 GMT
So long as it means American lives are safe and secure down the line (which generally also means other friendly countries lives as well, if allied governments follow suit with their own constituencies), and our interests are secure, I've not a problem at all with how the government pursues the issues relentlessly. Granted, I'm of the opinion that ISIS is not the problem, but rather it's the return of state actors such as Russia. The way I see it, our countries are bros, by necessity, proximity, culture, and outside perception, if not preference across the board. If something happens to you, I don't see it going well for us. So my hope is we both continue to thrive, have each other's backs and you don't fuck up. I mean no disrespect with that last, it's just that globally, you're a much bigger and more active player than we are. So logically you run a higher risk than we do. That's fine, you're one of the few Canadians (to be completely honest) I know of (anywhere) that has such realistic and rational views. I remember once you asked me what's wrong with being Canadian (in regards to a relatively joking and benign statement I made.) In my experience and research, regarding the general cultural attitude of many in your country, my answer is simply 'a lot.' Not to being Canadian, and not that you are or should be our stooge, but there is a certain strain of anti-Americanism in your country that provides more of a cultural rift/divide than meets the eye. Not that you also don't have any legitimate criticism to have towards us, but... well, as I said, many in your country aren't as rational, practical, or realistic as you. Sorry for that diatribe.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 18, 2016 18:22:53 GMT
That's fine, you're one of the few Canadians (to be completely honest) I know of (anywhere) that has such realistic and rational views. I remember once you asked me what's wrong with being Canadian (in regards to a relatively joking and benign statement I made.) In my experience and research, regarding the general cultural attitude of many in your country, my answer is simply 'a lot.' Not to being Canadian, and not that you are or should be our stooge, but there is a certain strain of anti-Americanism in your country that provides more of a cultural rift/divide than meets the eye. Not that you also don't have any legitimate criticism to have towards us, but... well, as I said, many in your country aren't as rational, practical, or realistic as you. Sorry for that diatribe. It's honestly not personal, and it comes down to culture. We're the New World, we don't have have centuries or millenia of our own established culture and history like the Europeans, Middle Easterns or Asians do. We're just Europeans who came over here, more or less fucked the Natives then went on to build an empire of commercialism and owning bigger and better stuff. You did it more prominently and overtly while we just kind of slid quitely between states. Now we're both multicultural, with our populations composed of people from all over the globe. Except if you ask any American their background, they'll say "I am American first, and also Italian, Chinese etc." Ask a Canadian the same question and you'll get "Italian" "Chinese" "German", whatever. The bottom line is your overt prominent ways gave rise to that being its own thing. You're Americans and by God you let everyone know it. We on the other hand... are just kind of here. The short of it is everyone looks at us as America Lite or if they want to be kinder, the quieter, politer America. Including some of our own people. And that's where the resentment comes from. We want to say "no, we're Canadian". But what's a Canadian? How are we different from you or any other country? Our cultural icons are mostly tropes and stereotypes. We want to be our own thing to, except we don't really do much about it. The only time we're patriotic and "super Canadian" is at hockey games for fuck's sake. Some Canadians are resentful because when asked "what makes you different from America" they don't have a good answer, apart from listing things we don't do, which can quickly devolve into derision. I visited Las Vegas last month. Our first night there we went to a German restaurant for dinner. It was practically a mini Oktoberfest, live music, polka, steins of beer everwhere, everyone dressed in traditional German garb. We had barely ordered drinks when the band began playing the Star Spangled Banner. Every single person in that restaurant stood up, placed their hand over their heart and sang their national anthem. We could do nothing but join them. It was a very powerful moment. One you won't likely see repeated with O Canada in any Canadian establishment. You have a level of national pride that's enviable. Not when taken to 'Murica levels of course, because at that point you're just charicatures of yourselves. I'm a proud Canadian. But it's hard to come up with a thing for Canada at this point. We can't go "Canada, fuck yeah!" because that's just ripping you off, and we do honestly differ in that attitude. I do wish Canada had a more positive and strong national identity though, one that isn't based on emulating or rejecting "americanisms" but is its own thing. I embrace the stereotypes but we need more than that. Though I'd also be fine with a reputation for being quiet, polite but getting the job done. I think we had that once. We were pretty good in the wars we fought.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 18:40:19 GMT
Canada brought people Bioware, Celine Dion, Michael J Fox, Avril Lavigne ( ), Ryan Reynolds, Dwayne Johnson, Hayden Christensen and Keanu Reeves. Canada is awesome just saying would actually love to live there its my go-to plan if the US gets in a kerfuffle and is full of hosers
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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 18, 2016 18:50:02 GMT
Canada brought people Bioware, Celine Dion, Michael J Fox, Avril Lavigne ( ), Ryan Reynolds, Dwayne Johnson, Hayden Christensen and Keanu Reeves. Canada is awesome just saying would actually love to live there its my go-to plan if the US gets in a kerfuffle and is full of hosers Ehhh, maybe keep this one on the down low, eh? Some people still haven't forgiven us for that. Otherwise grab a touque and a beer eh? Canada is awesome! We have a more respectable drinking age, better beer and strip clubs and all the poutine you can eat! Take off!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 19:07:23 GMT
Canada brought people Bioware, Celine Dion, Michael J Fox, Avril Lavigne ( ), Ryan Reynolds, Dwayne Johnson, Hayden Christensen and Keanu Reeves. Canada is awesome just saying would actually love to live there its my go-to plan if the US gets in a kerfuffle and is full of hosers Ehhh, maybe keep this one on the down low, eh? Some people still haven't forgiven us for that. Otherwise grab a touque and a beer eh? Canada is awesome! We have a more respectable drinking age, better beer and strip clubs and all the poutine you can eat! Take off! Some people still haven't forgiven you guys for the abomination known as Justin Bieber
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Oct 18, 2016 19:15:26 GMT
I've realized the sensible Canadians mostly live here:
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Post by Beerfish on Oct 18, 2016 19:21:20 GMT
I've realized the sensible Canadians mostly live here: Cept that one trouble maker that dresses as a Fennec from Cowgary.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 19:24:57 GMT
Canada brought people Bioware, Celine Dion, Michael J Fox, Avril Lavigne ( ), Ryan Reynolds, Dwayne Johnson, Hayden Christensen and Keanu Reeves. Canada is awesome just saying would actually love to live there its my go-to plan if the US gets in a kerfuffle and is full of hosers Ehhh, maybe keep this one on the down low, eh? Some people still haven't forgiven us for that. Otherwise grab a touque and a beer eh? Canada is awesome! We have a more respectable drinking age, better beer and strip clubs and all the poutine you can eat! Take off!
CELINE DION???
But... theres nothing wrong with Celine Dion
Near, far, wherever you are I believe that the heart does go on Once more you open the door And you're here in my heart And my heart will go on and on
Also William Shatner is Canadian who brought us TJ Hooker which was totally awesome
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Post by CrutchCricket on Oct 18, 2016 19:37:01 GMT
I've realized the sensible Canadians mostly live here: Nah, they're just the ones you can pick out. The rest of us are blending in among you... Some people still haven't forgiven you guys for the abomination known as Justin Bieber No I expect that stain will follow us for at least my lifetime. On behalf of my people I deeply apologize.
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Post by nanotm on Oct 18, 2016 20:46:48 GMT
Some people still haven't forgiven you guys for the abomination known as Justin Bieber No I expect that stain will follow us for at least my lifetime. On behalf of my people I deeply apologize. well to be fair you guys do have the monopoly on sci-fi film studio's what with all those tax breaks so cool things such as killjoys or BSG can be made .... so the world is likely to overlook that whole failure to euthanize before escape problem
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 20:48:00 GMT
I've realized the sensible Canadians mostly live here: Cept that one trouble maker that dresses as a Fennec from Cowgary. HEY! I resemble that remark! .. How am I a trouble maker?? Huh? Psssh...damn Edmontonian...just pissy cause the Stamps are kicking ass and the Eskies suck lemons...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 20:50:51 GMT
I've realized the sensible Canadians mostly live here: I agree about the Alberta thing, but the folks from BC are pretty awesome too.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 20:59:29 GMT
HEY! I resemble that remark! .. How am I a trouble maker?? Huh? Psssh...damn Edmontonian...just pissy cause the Stamps are kicking ass and the Eskies suck lemons... Roses are red violets are blue, flames won zero games, oilers won two. Psssht..Yeah...but that's just hockey...hockey doesn't count.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 18, 2016 23:49:44 GMT
That's fine, you're one of the few Canadians (to be completely honest) I know of (anywhere) that has such realistic and rational views. I remember once you asked me what's wrong with being Canadian (in regards to a relatively joking and benign statement I made.) In my experience and research, regarding the general cultural attitude of many in your country, my answer is simply 'a lot.' Not to being Canadian, and not that you are or should be our stooge, but there is a certain strain of anti-Americanism in your country that provides more of a cultural rift/divide than meets the eye. Not that you also don't have any legitimate criticism to have towards us, but... well, as I said, many in your country aren't as rational, practical, or realistic as you. Sorry for that diatribe. It's honestly not personal, and it comes down to culture. We're the New World, we don't have have centuries or millenia of our own established culture and history like the Europeans, Middle Easterns or Asians do. We're just Europeans who came over here, more or less fucked the Natives then went on to build an empire of commercialism and owning bigger and better stuff. You did it more prominently and overtly while we just kind of slid quitely between states. Now we're both multicultural, with our populations composed of people from all over the globe. Except if you ask any American their background, they'll say "I am American first, and also Italian, Chinese etc." Ask a Canadian the same question and you'll get "Italian" "Chinese" "German", whatever. The bottom line is your overt prominent ways gave rise to that being its own thing. You're Americans and by God you let everyone know it. We on the other hand... are just kind of here. The short of it is everyone looks at us as America Lite or if they want to be kinder, the quieter, politer America. Including some of our own people. And that's where the resentment comes from. We want to say "no, we're Canadian". But what's a Canadian? How are we different from you or any other country? Our cultural icons are mostly tropes and stereotypes. We want to be our own thing to, except we don't really do much about it. The only time we're patriotic and "super Canadian" is at hockey games for fuck's sake. Some Canadians are resentful because when asked "what makes you different from America" they don't have a good answer, apart from listing things we don't do, which can quickly devolve into derision. I visited Las Vegas last month. Our first night there we went to a German restaurant for dinner. It was practically a mini Oktoberfest, live music, polka, steins of beer everwhere, everyone dressed in traditional German garb. We had barely ordered drinks when the band began playing the Star Spangled Banner. Every single person in that restaurant stood up, placed their hand over their heart and sang their national anthem. We could do nothing but join them. It was a very powerful moment. One you won't likely see repeated with O Canada in any Canadian establishment. You have a level of national pride that's enviable. Not when taken to 'Murica levels of course, because at that point you're just charicatures of yourselves. I'm a proud Canadian. But it's hard to come up with a thing for Canada at this point. We can't go "Canada, fuck yeah!" because that's just ripping you off, and we do honestly differ in that attitude. I do wish Canada had a more positive and strong national identity though, one that isn't based on emulating or rejecting "americanisms" but is its own thing. I embrace the stereotypes but we need more than that. Though I'd also be fine with a reputation for being quiet, polite but getting the job done. I think we had that once. We were pretty good in the wars we fought. Very informed, very frank, and just the kind of response I love coming across on this matter. I'm one of those people that does some level of cultural comparison; not necessarily to see which is better, but to see the sorts of stuff that differentiate countries in how they behave, act, and view the world around them. Australia in particular is the area where I have most experience with, and I'm working to increase it with New Zealand and Canada as well. I think some of how we Americans hold our views can be gleaned from how we interact in comparison to Australia, which was an interesting feature on this site in particular. The way the author posts about countries doesn't totally directly compare them, so much as make scant observations of cultural differences and how and why they came to be. The useful thing is that you can use it to sort of get a glean on how the US culture might compare to Canada, or the other countries that are listed (though all in the terms of how they compare with Australia, as it is an Aussie site.) I was actually in Sault Ste. Marie back in July, and I visited the Canadian Space Museum that's up there (relative to my location in the States of course.) It was very interesting, but it was also something that neglected heavily the American Spaceflight angle (which is of course much more substantial) to sort of over pronounce the role of Canada in spaceflight; for example, they'd have you know/believe that Chris Hadfield was the greatest astronaut of all time, or that Roberta Bondar was the first real Western female pioneer in space, or the engineering team from the University of Toronto single-handedly saved Apollo 13 when the Americans 'couldn't figure out how to fix the problem (I shit you not, that's in the video we had to sit through)', or that the Canadarm is the single-most important part of the Space Shuttle (I did get a kick when one person kept going on about it, and I did get irritated and said that while Canadarm was great, it was the US that actually built the rest of the Shuttle.) I mean, I didn't find it bad; obviously, Canada has contributed an incredible amount of expertise and knowledge to our understand of space and space exploration. Chris Hadfield, Roberta Bondar, Marc Garneau, all 9 Canadian astronauts that have flown into space were all great explorers and pioneers. But the display was so dismissive and ignorant of how it treated American spaceflight, which barely got a passing mention (though you were told about a half-dozen times about how great the Canadians were about training the Apollo astronauts in Lunar Geology in Northwestern Ontario (once more, single-handedly)) that I actually wanted to point out what the Canadians had in a budget deficit where the CSA actually had its funding marginally decreased, and that at that rate, they weren't going to be able to afford seats on the Russian Soyuz that they have to buy since their contribution to the ISS is minimal enough that they aren't allotted their own seat (and in which we Americans actually have generously donated some of our own seats so that Canadians could fly on several missions). It was all just... so smug and condescending, without needing to be. Canadians did play a tremendous role in saving Apollo 13. The Canadarm was an incredibly useful too that helped assemble various space habitats for the ISS and satellites launched from the shuttle. And Hadfield obviously distinguished himself as the Commander of the ISS during his tenure. But man, after visiting this place, I half expected them to say that Neil Armstrong was somehow Canadian. I've read on a few blogs from Canadians that anti-Americanism is sometimes considered a national past-time. And it's sad, because you guys probably are our closest friend (even if Trudeau himself has indicated that Canada is too good for America anymore.)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 4:22:32 GMT
It's honestly not personal, and it comes down to culture. We're the New World, we don't have have centuries or millenia of our own established culture and history like the Europeans, Middle Easterns or Asians do. We're just Europeans who came over here, more or less fucked the Natives then went on to build an empire of commercialism and owning bigger and better stuff. You did it more prominently and overtly while we just kind of slid quitely between states. Now we're both multicultural, with our populations composed of people from all over the globe. Except if you ask any American their background, they'll say "I am American first, and also Italian, Chinese etc." Ask a Canadian the same question and you'll get "Italian" "Chinese" "German", whatever. The bottom line is your overt prominent ways gave rise to that being its own thing. You're Americans and by God you let everyone know it. We on the other hand... are just kind of here. The short of it is everyone looks at us as America Lite or if they want to be kinder, the quieter, politer America. Including some of our own people. And that's where the resentment comes from. We want to say "no, we're Canadian". But what's a Canadian? How are we different from you or any other country? Our cultural icons are mostly tropes and stereotypes. We want to be our own thing to, except we don't really do much about it. The only time we're patriotic and "super Canadian" is at hockey games for fuck's sake. Some Canadians are resentful because when asked "what makes you different from America" they don't have a good answer, apart from listing things we don't do, which can quickly devolve into derision. I visited Las Vegas last month. Our first night there we went to a German restaurant for dinner. It was practically a mini Oktoberfest, live music, polka, steins of beer everwhere, everyone dressed in traditional German garb. We had barely ordered drinks when the band began playing the Star Spangled Banner. Every single person in that restaurant stood up, placed their hand over their heart and sang their national anthem. We could do nothing but join them. It was a very powerful moment. One you won't likely see repeated with O Canada in any Canadian establishment. You have a level of national pride that's enviable. Not when taken to 'Murica levels of course, because at that point you're just charicatures of yourselves. I'm a proud Canadian. But it's hard to come up with a thing for Canada at this point. We can't go "Canada, fuck yeah!" because that's just ripping you off, and we do honestly differ in that attitude. I do wish Canada had a more positive and strong national identity though, one that isn't based on emulating or rejecting "americanisms" but is its own thing. I embrace the stereotypes but we need more than that. Though I'd also be fine with a reputation for being quiet, polite but getting the job done. I think we had that once. We were pretty good in the wars we fought. Very informed, very frank, and just the kind of response I love coming across on this matter. I'm one of those people that does some level of cultural comparison; not necessarily to see which is better, but to see the sorts of stuff that differentiate countries in how they behave, act, and view the world around them. Australia in particular is the area where I have most experience with, and I'm working to increase it with New Zealand and Canada as well. I think some of how we Americans hold our views can be gleaned from how we interact in comparison to Australia, which was an interesting feature on this site in particular. The way the author posts about countries doesn't totally directly compare them, so much as make scant observations of cultural differences and how and why they came to be. The useful thing is that you can use it to sort of get a glean on how the US culture might compare to Canada, or the other countries that are listed (though all in the terms of how they compare with Australia, as it is an Aussie site.) I was actually in Sault Ste. Marie back in July, and I visited the Canadian Space Museum that's up there (relative to my location in the States of course.) It was very interesting, but it was also something that neglected heavily the American Spaceflight angle (which is of course much more substantial) to sort of over pronounce the role of Canada in spaceflight; for example, they'd have you know/believe that Chris Hadfield was the greatest astronaut of all time, or that Roberta Bondar was the first real Western female pioneer in space, or the engineering team from the University of Toronto single-handedly saved Apollo 13 when the Americans 'couldn't figure out how to fix the problem (I shit you not, that's in the video we had to sit through)', or that the Canadarm is the single-most important part of the Space Shuttle (I did get a kick when one person kept going on about it, and I did get irritated and said that while Canadarm was great, it was the US that actually built the rest of the Shuttle.) I mean, I didn't find it bad; obviously, Canada has contributed an incredible amount of expertise and knowledge to our understand of space and space exploration. Chris Hadfield, Roberta Bondar, Marc Garneau, all 9 Canadian astronauts that have flown into space were all great explorers and pioneers. But the display was so dismissive and ignorant of how it treated American spaceflight, which barely got a passing mention (though you were told about a half-dozen times about how great the Canadians were about training the Apollo astronauts in Lunar Geology in Northwestern Ontario (once more, single-handedly)) that I actually wanted to point out what the Canadians had in a budget deficit where the CSA actually had its funding marginally decreased, and that at that rate, they weren't going to be able to afford seats on the Russian Soyuz that they have to buy since their contribution to the ISS is minimal enough that they aren't allotted their own seat (and in which we Americans actually have generously donated some of our own seats so that Canadians could fly on several missions). It was all just... so smug and condescending, without needing to be. Canadians did play a tremendous role in saving Apollo 13. The Canadarm was an incredibly useful too that helped assemble various space habitats for the ISS and satellites launched from the shuttle. And Hadfield obviously distinguished himself as the Commander of the ISS during his tenure. But man, after visiting this place, I half expected them to say that Neil Armstrong was somehow Canadian. I've read on a few blogs from Canadians that anti-Americanism is sometimes considered a national past-time. And it's sad, because you guys probably are our closest friend (even if Trudeau himself has indicated that Canada is too good for America anymore.) Ah, Hawkeye, what you see as smug have you considered that it's Canada's way of building pride amongst it's citizens? It's giving Canadians an example of what they can aspire to be. Look, there is so much American media content up here and it overshadows the accomplishments Canadians have contributed to, and honestly, the US dismisses Canadian contributions quite often too. Canada has it's own identity and it's own culture, Canadians just don't want to lose those to the big American media machine or lose their autonomy to a systematic take over from the States.
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Post by mattig89ch on Oct 19, 2016 5:56:01 GMT
Are we taking over Canada now? We've teased them for decades, but I don't know anyone who actually thinks we should take over Canada.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 6:37:10 GMT
Are we taking over Canada now? We've teased them for decades, but I don't know anyone who actually thinks we should take over Canada. It's more the American influence in the media style, political campaigning and business buy outs that's been going on, plus there's been a couple of more areas that have been altered slightly, it's not so much a takeover as it is a overexposure to all things 'American.'
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 19, 2016 18:27:26 GMT
Are we taking over Canada now? We've teased them for decades, but I don't know anyone who actually thinks we should take over Canada. It's more the American influence in the media style, political campaigning and business buy outs that's been going on, plus there's been a couple of more areas that have been altered slightly, it's not so much a takeover as it is a overexposure to all things 'American.' Well, to the sort of stuff like that, sure, we have admitted problems in how we do each of those things ourselves... but it's hardly entirely our fault that your own regions of industry in those fields seek to emulate our ways, over-exposure or no. Sure, we have aggressive business practices and sensationalist media, but we aren't holding a gun to your head and telling you to act like us. I agree with your law that you need to have a certain percentage of natively produced media on television and radio, but it's not as though we're actively trying to shit on the stuff or shut it down. You're absolutely right about the issue of the 'Americanization of Canadian politics', but as I said, I don't see the fairness in holding us accountable in the discourse of your own elections, at least not on the whole (barring of course a few left and right wing interest groups that do try to take a position.)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 19:15:24 GMT
It's more the American influence in the media style, political campaigning and business buy outs that's been going on, plus there's been a couple of more areas that have been altered slightly, it's not so much a takeover as it is a overexposure to all things 'American.' Well, to the sort of stuff like that, sure, we have admitted problems in how we do each of those things ourselves... but it's hardly entirely our fault that your own regions of industry in those fields seek to emulate our ways, over-exposure or no. Sure, we have aggressive business practices and sensationalist media, but we aren't holding a gun to your head and telling you to act like us. I agree with your law that you need to have a certain percentage of natively produced media on television and radio, but it's not as though we're actively trying to shit on the stuff or shut it down. You're absolutely right about the issue of the 'Americanization of Canadian politics', but as I said, I don't see the fairness in holding us accountable in the discourse of your own elections, at least not on the whole (barring of course a few left and right wing interest groups that do try to take a position.) Hawkeye, one question, how much knowledge does the average American have about Canada? I can tell, Canadians know way more about the States, than what the States bothers to learn about Canada. That's insulting, really. Sure, there are a number of Americans who take it upon themselves to learn about their Northern neighbors, but a good number of them couldn't be bothered, Canada is more like an afterthought, and that attitude is very obvious in the US media and the lack of accuracy in how Canada is portrayed down there.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 19, 2016 23:40:14 GMT
Well, to the sort of stuff like that, sure, we have admitted problems in how we do each of those things ourselves... but it's hardly entirely our fault that your own regions of industry in those fields seek to emulate our ways, over-exposure or no. Sure, we have aggressive business practices and sensationalist media, but we aren't holding a gun to your head and telling you to act like us. I agree with your law that you need to have a certain percentage of natively produced media on television and radio, but it's not as though we're actively trying to shit on the stuff or shut it down. You're absolutely right about the issue of the 'Americanization of Canadian politics', but as I said, I don't see the fairness in holding us accountable in the discourse of your own elections, at least not on the whole (barring of course a few left and right wing interest groups that do try to take a position.) Hawkeye, one question, how much knowledge does the average American have about Canada? I can tell, Canadians know way more about the States, than what the States bothers to learn about Canada. That's insulting, really. Sure, there are a number of Americans who take it upon themselves to learn about their Northern neighbors, but a good number of them couldn't be bothered, Canada is more like an afterthought, and that attitude is very obvious in the US media and the lack of accuracy in how Canada is portrayed down there. Not a lot of us do to be honest. More than you'd think, but not enough to overtly change I'm not one of them, having traveled extensively through Canada (including a 6 province road tour this year alone, hitting BC, Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Ontario, and Quebec.) But that said, most of us couldn't even name a single Province. I'll be blunt as to the reason; you're not worth our time. I don't personally feel that way (at least, not when the Canadians in question aren't being smug and superior jerkwads), but that's the simple truth. There are a tremendous variety of reasons for this however, and it's not that it all boils down to 'spoiled ignorant Americans don't know or care about Canada' so much as for the majority of us, it's just not a relevant concern. In many ways, it's a one-sided relationship; your politics and economics for example barely interest us (because they have almost no effect on how our own system works), and your cultural exports, while not minimal, are rather niche; also, due to the sheer similarity between American and Canadian culture, much of what you export is basically assumed to be American media unless explicitly mentioned or shown (and often, not even then.) It's a sociological phenomenon I've been looking into as well, regarding 1) how Americans are so Americentric and parochial in our view of the world compared to others, and 2) (don't hate me for this), how it's... justified, from a certain point of view. Not to say that I agree with it, but there is something to consider about how Americans don't need to worry about the rest of the world compared to how the rest of the world needs to care about America. By and large, most of you guys have little/no effect on life here, whereas our market failing or economy crashing means we take the entire Western world (at the very least) with us. As I said, this isn't entirely the case, and I don't entirely agree with the sentiment, but there it is.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Oct 19, 2016 23:53:35 GMT
Well, to the sort of stuff like that, sure, we have admitted problems in how we do each of those things ourselves... but it's hardly entirely our fault that your own regions of industry in those fields seek to emulate our ways, over-exposure or no. Sure, we have aggressive business practices and sensationalist media, but we aren't holding a gun to your head and telling you to act like us. I agree with your law that you need to have a certain percentage of natively produced media on television and radio, but it's not as though we're actively trying to shit on the stuff or shut it down. You're absolutely right about the issue of the 'Americanization of Canadian politics', but as I said, I don't see the fairness in holding us accountable in the discourse of your own elections, at least not on the whole (barring of course a few left and right wing interest groups that do try to take a position.) Hawkeye, one question, how much knowledge does the average American have about Canada? I can tell, Canadians know way more about the States, than what the States bothers to learn about Canada. That's insulting, really. Sure, there are a number of Americans who take it upon themselves to learn about their Northern neighbors, but a good number of them couldn't be bothered, Canada is more like an afterthought, and that attitude is very obvious in the US media and the lack of accuracy in how Canada is portrayed down there.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 0:01:32 GMT
Hawkeye, one question, how much knowledge does the average American have about Canada? I can tell, Canadians know way more about the States, than what the States bothers to learn about Canada. That's insulting, really. Sure, there are a number of Americans who take it upon themselves to learn about their Northern neighbors, but a good number of them couldn't be bothered, Canada is more like an afterthought, and that attitude is very obvious in the US media and the lack of accuracy in how Canada is portrayed down there. Not a lot of us do to be honest. More than you'd think, but not enough to overtly change I'm not one of them, having traveled extensively through Canada (including a 6 province road tour this year alone, hitting BC, Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Ontario, and Quebec.) But that said, most of us couldn't even name a single Province. I'll be blunt as to the reason; you're not worth our time. I don't personally feel that way (at least, not when the Canadians in question aren't being smug and superior jerkwads), but that's the simple truth. There are a tremendous variety of reasons for this however, and it's not that it all boils down to 'spoiled ignorant Americans don't know or care about Canada' so much as for the majority of us, it's just not a relevant concern. In many ways, it's a one-sided relationship; your politics and economics for example barely interest us (because they have almost no effect on how our own system works), and your cultural exports, while not minimal, are rather niche; also, due to the sheer similarity between American and Canadian culture, much of what you export is basically assumed to be American media unless explicitly mentioned or shown (and often, not even then.) It's a sociological phenomenon I've been looking into as well, regarding 1) how Americans are so Americentric and parochial in our view of the world compared to others, and 2) (don't hate me for this), how it's... justified, from a certain point of view. Not to say that I agree with it, but there is something to consider about how Americans don't need to worry about the rest of the world compared to how the rest of the world needs to care about America. By and large, most of you guys have little/no effect on life here, whereas our market failing or economy crashing means we take the entire Western world (at the very least) with us. As I said, this isn't entirely the case, and I don't entirely agree with the sentiment, but there it is. Canadians are quite aware that a good number of Americans feel that way about them, so don't you think it would make sense that Canadians would react negatively to their attitude? Also, don't you think there is some justification to Canadians wanting to preserve their successes? History? Culture? What you call 'smug' is just them deflecting the attitude they see directed at Canada, coming from the States. They don't want to lose their identity, but that's what's happening, having the US so close by.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 20, 2016 0:39:00 GMT
Ah, Hawkeye, what you see as smug have you considered that it's Canada's way of building pride amongst it's citizens? It's giving Canadians an example of what they can aspire to be. Look, there is so much American media content up here and it overshadows the accomplishments Canadians have contributed to, and honestly, the US dismisses Canadian contributions quite often too. Canada has it's own identity and it's own culture, Canadians just don't want to lose those to the big American media machine or lose their autonomy to a systematic take over from the States. I question why Canadians would want to build pride by comparing themselves to America constantly and acting smug towards us (and, in my personal opinion, falling victim to a inferiority-superiority complex towards Americans, which we also admittedly have towards ourselves.) Why not focus on goals instead? Many do try to do that, which would build something to be proud of, but in almost every instance of pride, there is a hint of the focus on how they're happy that they're not American. Why base your national pride on degrading another country? The media content up there really isn't our fault. I disagree with you on that. You guys (I am labeling you as Canadian, even if you're American born, which is correct I assmue?) don't have to buy our media; as I said, we're not forcing you to accept it at gunpoint. To me, this sentiment is simply indicative of wanting to distinguish yourselves with your own identity compared to us, which is acceptable and fine. I just take issue with the attitude and method of doing so. As for the Canadian contributions to the world, and on collaborative achievements/goals... more often than not, it's not malice, but simple ignorance on the part of Americans to the role of Canadians. We aren't dismissing your contributions so much as simply not being aware that they exist (which isn't a great thing to be sure, but it's not due to any real or true malice on our part.) And for the other contributions that we share that we overshadow you on, look at how things go that way. We have nearly 10x the population of Canada and much, much, much more money to throw at joint programs, which does generally mean that we end up as first among equals. NORAD comes to mind here. But none of this is to say that Canadian accomplishments themselves can't be celebrated. Sure, Canadarm has nothing on Apollo, the Space Shuttle, Curiosity, or Voyager, and Chris Hadfield (a Canadian hero worthy of admiration from any pupil of space exploration) isn't Neil Armstrong, ( Godspeed!) John Glenn, Alan Shepard, or even Scott Kelly. But neither Canadarm or Hadfield has to; they can rightfully be claimed as Canadian achievements and contributions that have attributed greatly to manned spaceflight. I think it's disingenuous when Canadians try to overstate the prominence of their achievements in comparison to ours, while also looking for ways to distinguish yourselves from us for no reason beyond establishing yourself as not being Americans. I can't agree with you on the concept of a 'systematic' take-over from the United States. We're not trying to take-over anything. Sure, we may try to influence you over particular projects or legislation, but the need to 'take-over', as it were, is simply non-existent. I think my opinion on this can be summed up as 'if you want to have your own cultural and national identity, instead of focusing on distinguishing yourself from how you aren't American, similar to what CrutchCricket said (and not being dismissive and anti-American in the process), look instead to genuinely celebrating your own achievements and make goals for yourselves that you don't make just to show the world how different you are from us. Also, sorry to anyone for the sanctimoniousness here. It's not intended, and it's just my own reflection on observations I've made on the nature of the US/Canada relationship. As with anything I say, take it with a grain of salt.
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Post by The Hype Himself on Oct 20, 2016 1:20:25 GMT
Not a lot of us do to be honest. More than you'd think, but not enough to overtly change I'm not one of them, having traveled extensively through Canada (including a 6 province road tour this year alone, hitting BC, Alberta, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Ontario, and Quebec.) But that said, most of us couldn't even name a single Province. I'll be blunt as to the reason; you're not worth our time. I don't personally feel that way (at least, not when the Canadians in question aren't being smug and superior jerkwads), but that's the simple truth. There are a tremendous variety of reasons for this however, and it's not that it all boils down to 'spoiled ignorant Americans don't know or care about Canada' so much as for the majority of us, it's just not a relevant concern. In many ways, it's a one-sided relationship; your politics and economics for example barely interest us (because they have almost no effect on how our own system works), and your cultural exports, while not minimal, are rather niche; also, due to the sheer similarity between American and Canadian culture, much of what you export is basically assumed to be American media unless explicitly mentioned or shown (and often, not even then.) It's a sociological phenomenon I've been looking into as well, regarding 1) how Americans are so Americentric and parochial in our view of the world compared to others, and 2) (don't hate me for this), how it's... justified, from a certain point of view. Not to say that I agree with it, but there is something to consider about how Americans don't need to worry about the rest of the world compared to how the rest of the world needs to care about America. By and large, most of you guys have little/no effect on life here, whereas our market failing or economy crashing means we take the entire Western world (at the very least) with us. As I said, this isn't entirely the case, and I don't entirely agree with the sentiment, but there it is. Canadians are quite aware that a good number of Americans feel that way about them, so don't you think it would make sense that Canadians would react negatively to their attitude? Also, don't you think there is some justification to Canadians wanting to preserve their successes? History? Culture? What you call 'smug' is just them deflecting the attitude they see directed at Canada, coming from the States. They don't want to lose their identity, but that's what's happening, having the US so close by. Oh god, I just saw a grammar mistake I made and I now need to fix it but can't... It makes sense in the idea that Americans do so with 'hahaha! them lousy Canucks are hopelessly small fry compared to we mighty Yanks!" But very, very, very exceptionally few Americans hold that attitude. Rather, I think that Canadians could also look at some of the reasons why Americans don't have the time or need to worry about Canada. One reason is that, unlike Canada, most of our population is spread out across the country in all directions. Compare this to Canada, in which an estimated 75% of Canadians live within 100 miles (or 161 kilometers) of the US border. This number is much different for Americans, the vast minority of whom live within 100 miles of the border with Canada. The two largest cities I can think of near the border are Detroit and Rochester (maybe Cleveland if you count water boundaries). To most people here, simple geography makes Canada seem kind of abstract in terms of distance (I live comparatively closer to Canada than most Americans, and it's still about a 4-5 hour drive to the nearest border crossing in Detroit.) Canada is definitely out of most people's minds down here. Add that to the fact that physically, most Canadians are not distinguishable from Americans. We share the same language, we're broadly white, and we both have enough diversity in ethnicity that even if you have an Asian-Canadian down here, they're likely to just be mistaken for an Asian-Americans. And despite the differences in accent (which is more distinguished in some parts of the country compared to the others; for example, a Canadian with all but the most pronounced accent will still sound less pronounced and more familiar than a person with a thick Southern drawl.) Inversely, I'd wager that most Canadians could probably pick out an American faster than the opposite due to awareness of such differences that most Americans don't have. And I think this, both in part, and in idea is what leads Canadians to have a more... pronounced and active alertness towards Americans, which might lead to an increased sensitivity and reactivity in terms of how they hold their attitudes. Basically... don't take it personally, the sentiment Americans have. Even here with your response, I'm already detecting some of the sensitivity and reactivity here; To be honest with you, I think it's subconsciously exaggerated by most Canadians in a bizarre form of cognitive bias. I am not a psychologist and I have no evidence to back up this hypothesis of course. But I think you guys generally tend to default to an automatically negative assumption when Americans are concerned or involved with the topic of interest. As I stated previously, there doesn't have to be a correlation to wanting to preserve your success and identity and using it to covertly or overtly feed an anti-American sentiment or bias. You have a lot to be proud of, and we Americans aren't trying to take away your success. When the Blue Jays went to the ALCS last year, many Canadians expressed the sentiment that they were glad that they, as Canadians, were better than Americans, specifically at their own sport, and were glad to rub that in Americans faces. I found that to be rather asinine, since a large proportion of the Blue Jays were made up of non-Canadian players (many of whom weren't even from the United States.) To me, that seems like an overt attempt at wanting to take away from American successes. If that's the sentiment that Canadians have in general, I think it's relatively hypocritical. As I said, the best way to preserve your successes is to make them something to be proud of for their own merits (which in fairness, many Canadians do), not use them as cultural capital to say "see Americans? We've done something worthwhile and you should be proud of it!" Obviously, I'm being kind of negative myself, but I'm trying to be fair. But I think that if that's what many Canadians see from America, then I think they're trying to project some kind of insecurity onto us. Why should you need us to validate your own identity and image? Why would you want us too? That's what I see. You want to distinguish yourselves from the United States, but you want us to validate it by acknowledging the differences ourselves. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that you're doing this yourself.
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