PhroX
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Post by PhroX on Nov 29, 2016 13:06:33 GMT
Yeah, excessively "actiony" combat would be the single thing most likely to drive me away from the franchise. I hated the Witcher's combat to the point where I can't finish either the second or third game despite how good they are in other aspects due to the fighting being so utterly unenjoyable.
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KamenRyder
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Post by KamenRyder on Nov 30, 2016 14:12:07 GMT
I'd be happy with a Dragon Age game with a Dragon's Dogma's combat system.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Nov 30, 2016 15:48:57 GMT
Would you like to see a move in this direction? No? I would hate to see that happening. Seriously. Why must *every* *single* *fucking* game have "fast-paced action"? It's the curse of the modern gaming industry and its bandwagon mentality and destroys the diversity of big budget games. I want a roleplaying game, not something that depends on twitchy fingers. Can't like twice so I'll add a QFT
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 2, 2016 7:32:52 GMT
Would you like to see a move in this direction? No? I would hate to see that happening. Seriously. Why must *every* *single* *fucking* game have "fast-paced action"? It's the curse of the modern gaming industry and its bandwagon mentality and destroys the diversity of big budget games. I want a roleplaying game, not something that depends on twitchy fingers. There has to be change in combat in Dragon Age and why not?
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Post by lundajfs on Dec 2, 2016 9:36:20 GMT
Just posted on Mass Effect forums and this is the only time you should read my posts (they're usually just hateful stupid shit, this one too, but this one surprisingly accepts action)
Go ME:A way. The long explanation: I absolutely HATE action. I HATE it. I do not play action games. For instance right now the games I am currently playing are: Tyranny, BG:EE, DOS2 (beta), PoE, DAO and NWN2. Why then would I say go full action? Well, because of Dragon Age: Inquisition. Dragon Age: Inquisition IS full action, 101%. But awful. So between AWFUL action (coupled with AWFUL RPG) and AWESOME action. Go awesome action. I won't actually play the game, will use cheatengine for godmode for sure, but I will at least be able to have fun doing so. In Inquisition the experience is painful, painfully tedious, boring, gruesomely cruel. Playing the game start to end feels like having each of your internal organs being ripped from you inch by inch, slowly, for a 120 hours. No cheatengine can save you from that, because combat is not RPGistic like DAO (or those other games I'm playing) neither is fun fast jumping action, it is just boring. There is NOTHING there. So please, by all means, go action. I hate action. I will hate the game. But I will hate the game because it is not the way I want not because it is awful, uninteresting and a technical joke like in Inquisition. I can't for the life of me go there in ME:A forums and say the combat looks bad, I can say I hate it, it is not my style, but I can't say it is awful. In DAI if I try not insulting combat I will explode and become a supermassive black hole that will consume the multiverse because I can't lie that much. It is awful. So it is like choosing between influenza, alzheimer and cancer. You don't want any of them, but if forced you choose the less awful. So if Bioware is not going back to the glorious and perfect Dragon Age: Origins combat, then they NEED to improve action. Anything is better than DAI.
Edit: This is form other post of mine but fits here: "If gameplay actually looks like the trailer in the final version I take back what I said that Bioware can't do action. When I played Jade Empire I was sure they should stay away from action, FOREVER, when I played Mass Effect 1 I knew they were also useless on the shooter front, but I didn't care because I hated those styles and thus didn't care for those games. Now they have no good RPG games then they better learn to do good acion, and as far as ME goes, they seem to have learned."
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Dec 2, 2016 9:57:25 GMT
If it's anything like the combat in Guild Wars 2 which is free flowing and versatile; there isn't even any need to pause when switching weapons and those weapons come with different skills, providing different tactical approaches. Additionally, Dragon's Dogma combat features are also good; where you can tack/climb onto larger creatures and attack them at vulnerable points. I'm fine with it.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 2, 2016 21:42:02 GMT
Just posted on Mass Effect forums and this is the only time you should read my posts (they're usually just hateful stupid shit, this one too, but this one surprisingly accepts action) I don't usually read spew, but this is pretty entertaining spew. Well played, sir. Well played.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 2, 2016 22:41:02 GMT
And as we talked about Glory Kills, I wonder if bringing back the slo-mo camera style finishers might also help in the pacing. We've seen them in DAO and other games (not always effectively though)... and movies like 300 use that technique very well. I don't mind the slo-mo finishers; I quite like the kill move camera in Skyrim. However, the enjoyability depends on what triggers it. Perhaps we should only have it for named mobs, specific quest NPCs, or bosses, and not allow every random bandit to trigger one. Or, it could be based on a stat, like crit; if a crit were to be a killing blow, then the effect is triggered. The downside of this is that stacking crit for a particular build would have it triggering all the time. Or, it could be a flat percentage; every killing blow has a 10% chance to trigger the effect. To be honest, when the slo-mo was triggered in DAI, I never understood why it happened or fully appreciated the effect because of the nature of the combat in that game. In Skyrim, I forgo the followers and always play solo (they are just a nuisance to me in that game). Because of that, almost all fights were just my PC against one or two targets. When the kill move triggered, it was usually the final moment of combat and it seemed "right" and felt like it belonged. If the same thing were to happen against numerous mobs, it just doesn't seem like it would be appropriate to have a finisher on the first mob while still having three guys beating on me. Similarly, if I can't control it it would be detrimental in party combat if I need to quickly move to assist a party member, or something. At that point, it goes from being a fun addition to something that is hindering my play.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 2, 2016 22:57:22 GMT
And as we talked about Glory Kills, I wonder if bringing back the slo-mo camera style finishers might also help in the pacing. We've seen them in DAO and other games (not always effectively though)... and movies like 300 use that technique very well. I don't mind the slo-mo finishers; I quite like the kill move camera in Skyrim. However, the enjoyability depends on what triggers it. Perhaps we should only have it for named mobs, specific quest NPCs, or bosses, and not allow every random bandit to trigger one. Or, it could be based on a stat, like crit; if a crit were to be a killing blow, then the effect is triggered. The downside of this is that stacking crit for a particular build would have it triggering all the time. Or, it could be a flat percentage; every killing blow has a 10% chance to trigger the effect. To be honest, when the slo-mo was triggered in DAI, I never understood why it happened or fully appreciated the effect because of the nature of the combat in that game. In Skyrim, I forgo the followers and always play solo (they are just a nuisance to me in that game). Because of that, almost all fights were just my PC against one or two targets. When the kill move triggered, it was usually the final moment of combat and it seemed "right" and felt like it belonged. If the same thing were to happen against numerous mobs, it just doesn't seem like it would be appropriate to have a finisher on the first mob while still having three guys beating on me. Similarly, if I can't control it it would be detrimental in party combat if I need to quickly move to assist a party member, or something. At that point, it goes from being a fun addition to something that is hindering my play. Doom actually handles this in pretty good way. When a foe is staggered and primed for a Glory Kill, there is an indication for the player (in Doom's case, the enemy glows). From there, it's your choice, you can either trigger a Glory Kill or kill the foe normally. Also the staggered condition necessary for a Glory Kill is brief, you only have a few seconds before the enemy shrugs it off. The next DA could take some inspiration there... You might also set it up that you need to complete a combo (or some kind of chain of attacks) before a Glory Kill is triggered or primed for you to trigger.
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Destructive Deer
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Post by Destructive Deer on Dec 3, 2016 1:19:07 GMT
Since I've played a massive variety of games I honestly don't mind if they go the RPG route or the action route. My only gripes are gameplay and AI. I HATE the current tactic system and AI in DA:I. Yes, I genuinly hate it because my ranged squishy companions keep running headfirst into battle, trying to set up the saddest moshpit with the enemies and I feel like I have absolutely no control with the current tactics system, forcing me to babysit them almost every fight instead of setting up a tactic once and leaving it at that, maybe adjusting every once or so. But I use mods for most RPG-y PC games so most of the time gameplay goes out the window anyway. (Unless you think one-shotting everything with my overpowered LAZORBOOMBOOMSTICK from the Depths of HELLISH DOOM HELL can be considered 'gameplay') If it's anything like the combat in Guild Wars 2 which is free flowing and versatile; there isn't even any need to pause when switching weapons and those weapons come with different skills, providing different tactical approaches. Additionally, Dragon's Dogma combat features are also good; where you can tack/climb onto larger creatures and attack them at vulnerable points. I'm fine with it. My 2.4k hours in GW2 have to agree with this statement. The gameplay truly is great, especially with the wonderful versatility in gameplay that the classes have. If DA goes this route I'll probably be stuck playing that hypothetical game forever.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 3, 2016 2:07:17 GMT
I'm coming at this as a person that does NOT use the ISO camera, and never used it in DAO either. I prefer to control my own character for the most part and rarely do any advanced planning for combat.
I'm curious to know how many people played as a tank in DAI. My canon Inquisitor is an SnS tank and one of the benefits is that I do have great control over the battle. I found that the tank AI was good for single target fights, like dragons, and I did control a ranged on these, but terrible for most other fights, especially those with large groups to corral.
Obviously, "everyone should play a tank" is not any sort of solution; the AI needs to be better and give the player more options. But I do wonder how that affects a player's perception of the combat being "chaotic" and some of the other phrases I've seen in this thread.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 3, 2016 2:13:10 GMT
If it's anything like the combat in Guild Wars 2 which is free flowing and versatile; there isn't even any need to pause when switching weapons and those weapons come with different skills, providing different tactical approaches. Additionally, Dragon's Dogma combat features are also good; where you can tack/climb onto larger creatures and attack them at vulnerable points. I'm fine with it. I haven't tried GW2, but I do like the idea...
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 3, 2016 3:59:31 GMT
I'm coming at this as a person that does NOT use the ISO camera, and never used it in DAO either. I prefer to control my own character for the most part and rarely do any advanced planning for combat. I'm curious to know how many people played as a tank in DAI. My canon Inquisitor is an SnS tank and one of the benefits is that I do have great control over the battle. I found that the tank AI was good for single target fights, like dragons, and I did control a ranged on these, but terrible for most other fights, especially those with large groups to corral. Obviously, "everyone should play a tank" is not any sort of solution; the AI needs to be better and give the player more options. But I do wonder how that affects a player's perception of the combat being "chaotic" and some of the other phrases I've seen in this thread. FWIW, this may just be an AI configuration issue. Once I got on the "Follow self" your tank bandwagon, my AI controlled characters behave acceptably. Well, except for DW Rogues, but those have other problems that are well known. Let's say you are using Blackwall as your tank, with Dorian and Solas to round out the party. Set Blackwall to Follow Blackwall. Then set Dorian and Solas to also Follow Blackwall. At the start of combat, give Blackwall an initial target, and the rest takes care of itself. After the first target is down, Blackwell will pick the next target and the others will support from range. Then you as Inquisitor are free to do whatever you want, including go into Stealth and stay there the whole battle. But even if you do that, sometimes ranged AI characters will close to melee distance. This seems mainly to do with the active abilities in their loadouts. Caltrops, Spike Trap, Flask of Frost, Spirit Blade, Revival and something in Dorian's loadout that I haven't figured out yet, seems to draw them in. If you disable all of those known culprits, ranged attackers do better and don't get sucked in nearly as much, but some small percentage of the time they'll dive in, still.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Dec 3, 2016 4:18:20 GMT
If it's anything like the combat in Guild Wars 2 which is free flowing and versatile; there isn't even any need to pause when switching weapons and those weapons come with different skills, providing different tactical approaches. Additionally, Dragon's Dogma combat features are also good; where you can tack/climb onto larger creatures and attack them at vulnerable points. I'm fine with it. I haven't tried GW2, but I do like the idea... They added the glider this year so players can fly up really high if there're wind funnels available or swoop down easily to the lower levels. It made travel across the zones faster. If the terrain is favourable, gliding to dodge a mob temporarily is possible. I've done it. I've also flown as high as possible and explored the tops of mountains and hills.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 4, 2016 16:51:58 GMT
I haven't tried GW2, but I do like the idea... They added the glider this year so players can fly up really high if there're wind funnels available or swoop down easily to the lower levels. It made travel across the zones faster. If the terrain is favourable, gliding to dodge a mob temporarily is possible. I've done it. I've also flown as high as possible and explored the tops of mountains and hills. You know... I think it might be worth starting a thread about interesting ways of getting from Point A to Point B.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Dec 5, 2016 0:17:15 GMT
They added the glider this year so players can fly up really high if there're wind funnels available or swoop down easily to the lower levels. It made travel across the zones faster. If the terrain is favourable, gliding to dodge a mob temporarily is possible. I've done it. I've also flown as high as possible and explored the tops of mountains and hills. You know... I think it might be worth starting a thread about interesting ways of getting from Point A to Point B. Definitely. Moving across zones in GW2 is easy; players can port to cities, camps but the glider provides another fun alternative. That's not the highest point I went to in the video; I was just starting out so exhaustion set in quick. I can "skydive" in the zone with the highest flight height, timing the seconds. aiming for the spot I want, watching the far far terrain below come closer and closer before I opened the glider. The story in GW2 is average to ok; they're getting slightly better at it but not at the level of Bioware. The combat, the gliding, swimming and *social dynamics are the high points. * There is no need to fight over resources nor over boss fights. Everyone can pitch in, the fight gets tougher if there're many people (the boss scales up), and everyone gets the loot. Not like some mmo I can name *cough* swtor *cough* I'm digressing. If DA4 has bigger zones than DA3, the devs could look into flying / gliding as another form of travel. Allow free exploration of the terrain, like GW2, from the top of mountains to the bottom of the sea. There's magic in DA, surely there is a spell that allows exploration of the deep seas? Isn't it time we get to look at the watery depths? And a taste of the heights?
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Post by phoray on Dec 5, 2016 0:44:23 GMT
You know... I think it might be worth starting a thread about interesting ways of getting from Point A to Point B. Definitely. Moving across zones in GW2 is easy; players can port to cities, camps but the glider provides another fun alternative. That's not the highest point I went to in the video; I was just starting out so exhaustion set in quick. I can "skydive" in the zone with the highest flight height, timing the seconds. aiming for the spot I want, watching the far far terrain below come closer and closer before I opened the glider. The story in GW2 is average to ok; they're getting slightly better at it but not at the level of Bioware. The combat, the gliding, swimming and *social dynamics are the high points. * There is no need to fight over resources nor over boss fights. Everyone can pitch in, the fight gets tougher if there're many people (the boss scales up), and everyone gets the loot. Not like some mmo I can name *cough* swtor *cough* I'm digressing. If DA4 has bigger zones than DA3, the devs could look into flying / gliding as another form of travel. Allow free exploration of the terrain, like GW2, from the top of mountains to the bottom of the sea. There's magic in DA, surely there is a spell that allows exploration of the deep seas? Isn't it time we get to look at the watery depths? And a taste of the heights? Now now, let's not get too greedy. We just got the ability to jump. Haha, kidding. Let's get greedy. Hang gliding sounds fun.
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Post by Croatsky on Dec 5, 2016 0:48:31 GMT
I just hope next DA game has a proper tactical camera.
I hate DAI tactical camera, it's just so awkward on PC.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 5, 2016 9:37:47 GMT
Now now, let's not get too greedy. We just got the ability to jump. Haha, kidding. Let's get greedy. Hang gliding sounds fun. Just to emphasize this... PLEASE dear god don't take away jump!
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 5, 2016 13:33:12 GMT
I'm coming at this as a person that does NOT use the ISO camera, and never used it in DAO either. I prefer to control my own character for the most part and rarely do any advanced planning for combat. I'm curious to know how many people played as a tank in DAI. My canon Inquisitor is an SnS tank and one of the benefits is that I do have great control over the battle. I found that the tank AI was good for single target fights, like dragons, and I did control a ranged on these, but terrible for most other fights, especially those with large groups to corral. Obviously, "everyone should play a tank" is not any sort of solution; the AI needs to be better and give the player more options. But I do wonder how that affects a player's perception of the combat being "chaotic" and some of the other phrases I've seen in this thread. This is pretty much my experience with tanks and why I enjoyed my SnS Inquisitor. Now playing a mage, I find that the tank AI needs barriers cast on them regularly in any crowded battlefield.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 5, 2016 18:12:23 GMT
Definitely. Moving across zones in GW2 is easy; players can port to cities, camps but the glider provides another fun alternative. That's not the highest point I went to in the video; I was just starting out so exhaustion set in quick. I can "skydive" in the zone with the highest flight height, timing the seconds. aiming for the spot I want, watching the far far terrain below come closer and closer before I opened the glider. The story in GW2 is average to ok; they're getting slightly better at it but not at the level of Bioware. The combat, the gliding, swimming and *social dynamics are the high points. * There is no need to fight over resources nor over boss fights. Everyone can pitch in, the fight gets tougher if there're many people (the boss scales up), and everyone gets the loot. Not like some mmo I can name *cough* swtor *cough* I'm digressing. If DA4 has bigger zones than DA3, the devs could look into flying / gliding as another form of travel. Allow free exploration of the terrain, like GW2, from the top of mountains to the bottom of the sea. There's magic in DA, surely there is a spell that allows exploration of the deep seas? Isn't it time we get to look at the watery depths? And a taste of the heights? Now now, let's not get too greedy. We just got the ability to jump. Haha, kidding. Let's get greedy. Hang gliding sounds fun. C'mon BioWare, just once...
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 5, 2016 21:24:57 GMT
I dunno, I liked your Griffin idea better. Guess I'm jaded from flying around on Skyrim dragons. At least they can talk.
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Hrungr
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 6, 2016 16:54:27 GMT
Random Tuesday Musings...If they do move towards a more action-based style of combat (with each class having built-in evade/block abilities), perhaps having a little more self-sufficiency would make it easier to incorporate a few "Lone Wolf" segments. We've heard of rival mages dueling in the streets of Minrathous... and duels in general are always fun. There's also a Proving Grounds which could make for some interesting gladiatorial combat. Maybe bring back some solo-style side quests like the Thieving Quests in DAO? Overall, I think it'd be nice to see a few more "opportunities for individual achievement".
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 6, 2016 19:54:57 GMT
Random Tuesday Musings...If they do move towards a more action-based style of combat (with each class having built-in evade/block abilities), perhaps having a little more self-sufficiency would make it easier to incorporate a few "Lone Wolf" segments. We've heard of rival mages dueling in the streets of Minrathous... and duels in general are always fun. There's also a Proving Grounds which could make for some interesting gladiatorial combat. Maybe bring back some solo-style side quests like the Thieving Quests in DAO? Overall, I think it'd be nice to see a few more "opportunities for individual achievement". I couldn't agree more. I'd vote for this being a separate thread, since I expect this to branch into a lot of related ground. I know it's annoying, but Witcher 2 and 3 compare favorably to DA here. Need some money? Go fight a few rounds in Fight Club. Need a way into the guard camp? Get recruited as a pit fighter. Need to teach a lesson to a thug that hurt one of your pals in an earlier segment? Challenge him to a duel.
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deebo305
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Post by deebo305 on Dec 7, 2016 8:03:17 GMT
Threads like these always make wonder if I'm playing Dragon Age the wrong way since I rarely do extremely long pauses and DAI was the first time I bothered with the free camera buy that was mostly so the AI would stop standing still in fire
For the most part I usually prioritize abilities so the AI understand the role its assigned through the tactics menu and for the most part it works. Though tactics were less detailed in Inquisition it still worked
Honestly I think the current combat system is good, and yes I was one of the few who thought Origins was unbearably slow. Especially when your swords swings are so slow even a tortoise could dodge
It doesn't need to go full action like Andromeda seemed to but that's not to say slowing down to Origins speed is the best solution neither
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