talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Apr 4, 2017 15:47:31 GMT
That's in responce to C's comment that Gaider expressed surprise over people sympathizing with Anders. Gaider was exposed to the fan's unexpected reactions to the characters since 1998, so I don't think he should really be taken aback by players not feeling the way he expects them to feel. Gaider even not expected, that so many people will support the mages. I don't know, why they wrote the story such a way, that so hard to sympathize with the Templars... And there are no really good reasons for Hawke to supporting the Templars. I Just skimmed the last few posts, but I saw mention of Morrigan and mages. I love Morrigan and I love mages. like Catalina said, it is hard to sympathize with the Templars. I haven't finished DA2 yet, but I do not like Meredith with her I am superior than you vibe. That's why in DA2 I side with mages every chance I get, because of her and Bethany being Hawke's sister. I liked the Templars more in the mage origin in DAO, before the Circle fell. The only Templars I like in DA2 so far are Cullen, Emeric, and Thrask.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 4, 2017 16:05:11 GMT
Gaider even not expected, that so many people will support the mages. I don't know, why they wrote the story such a way, that so hard to sympathize with the Templars... And there are no really good reasons for Hawke to supporting the Templars. I Just skimmed the last few posts, but I saw mention of Morrigan and mages. I love Morrigan and I love mages. like Catalina said, it is hard to sympathize with the Templars. I haven't finished DA2 yet, but I do not like Meredith with her I am superior than you vibe. That's why in DA2 I side with mages every chance I get, because of her and Bethany being Hawke's sister. I liked the Templars more in the mage origin in DAO, before the Circle fell. The only Templars I like in DA2 so far are Cullen, Emeric, and Thrask. Cullen can be flexible (he accepts well if Hawke at Gallow says to him, that the Circles' methods aren't the bests. He says: he will check it), but in DA2 he take some irritating notice about mages ( "the mages aren't people as you or me", and "the Templars dominate over mages from divine right" – Act3 – so he shows not his best at the moment). But finally he leave the order. This is his best choice. My first Origin was Circle Mage, and I found the Circle unacceptable and cruel (I supported Jowan, and I was really sad, that he wasn't a party member later, just as this poor Daveth), but Gregoir were a decent man.
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N5
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Post by talyn82 on Apr 4, 2017 16:34:01 GMT
I Just skimmed the last few posts, but I saw mention of Morrigan and mages. I love Morrigan and I love mages. like Catalina said, it is hard to sympathize with the Templars. I haven't finished DA2 yet, but I do not like Meredith with her I am superior than you vibe. That's why in DA2 I side with mages every chance I get, because of her and Bethany being Hawke's sister. I liked the Templars more in the mage origin in DAO, before the Circle fell. The only Templars I like in DA2 so far are Cullen, Emeric, and Thrask. Cullen can be flexible (he accepts well if Hawke at Gallow says to him, that the Circles' methods aren't the bests. He says: he will check it), but in DA2 he take some irritating notice about mages ( "the mages aren't people as you or me", and "the Templars dominate over mages from divine right" – Act3 – so he shows not his best at the moment). But finally he leave the order. This is his best choice. My first Origin was Circle Mage, and I found the Circle unacceptable and cruel (I supported Jowan, and I was really sad, that he wasn't a party member later, just as this poor Daveth), but Gregoir were a decent man. I also supported Jowan's decision, which is why I let him go in Redcliffe. I did not mean the Circle was perfect, I just meant aside from the Harrowing the Templars did not look so bad. About Cullen in DA2, I don't know about that since I'm still in act 2, but I do remember he did say those things in act 2. I don't know maybe I just got DAI nostalgia.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 4, 2017 16:50:22 GMT
Cullen can be flexible (he accepts well if Hawke at Gallow says to him, that the Circles' methods aren't the bests. He says: he will check it), but in DA2 he take some irritating notice about mages ( "the mages aren't people as you or me", and "the Templars dominate over mages from divine right" – Act3 – so he shows not his best at the moment). But finally he leave the order. This is his best choice. My first Origin was Circle Mage, and I found the Circle unacceptable and cruel (I supported Jowan, and I was really sad, that he wasn't a party member later, just as this poor Daveth), but Gregoir were a decent man. I also supported Jowan's decision, which is why I let him go in Redcliffe. I did not mean the Circle was perfect, I just meant aside from the Harrowing the Templars did not look so bad. About Cullen in DA2, I don't know about that since I'm still in act 2, but I do remember he did say those things in act 2. I don't know maybe I just got DAI nostalgia. He's not a bad man, just was shocked by Uldred's demons. He was 18. So, Cullen damaged a bit. The DA2 shock will help him in healing...
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Post by shechinah on Apr 4, 2017 16:54:20 GMT
I also supported Jowan's decision, which is why I let him go in Redcliffe. I did not mean the Circle was perfect, I just meant aside from the Harrowing the Templars did not look so bad. About Cullen in DA2, I don't know about that since I'm still in act 2, but I do remember he did say those things in act 2. I don't know maybe I just got DAI nostalgia. He's not a bad man, just was shocked by Uldred's demons. He was 18. So, Cullen damaged a bit. The DA2 shock will help him in healing... That's a... little bit of an understatement. He was basically psychologically tortured for who knows how long and understandably seemed to developed post-traumatic stress from the experience.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 16:58:06 GMT
I did come out of Inquisition with a feeling of deep respect for Cullen. Just to, you know, not to focus on just the negatives.
I also did end up quite liking Cassandra, Josephine, Leliana and Sera (and, obviously, Dorian).
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Post by Catilina on Apr 4, 2017 16:59:04 GMT
He's not a bad man, just was shocked by Uldred's demons. He was 18. So, Cullen damaged a bit. The DA2 shock will help him in healing... That's a... little bit of an understatement. He was basically psychologically tortured for who knows how long and understandably seemed to developed post-traumatic stress from the experience. I told, that it's not understandable? But compared to the Circle of Mages his PTSD is nothing.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 4, 2017 17:16:52 GMT
That's a... little bit of an understatement. He was basically psychologically tortured for who knows how long and understandably seemed to developed post-traumatic stress from the experience. I told, that it's not understandable? But compared to the Circle of Mages his PTSD is nothing.I cannot emphasis enough my absolute repulsion with the idea that someone's PTSD is less than someone else's: PTSD is not a competition and you should not have to win it be acknowledged as suffering. That's an absolute appalling thought. Tell me how do you measure the scale of each person's PTSD to determine whose is less or nothing in comparison to the other? Is it by cause? Perhaps you could demonstrate it by a versus example?
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talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Apr 4, 2017 17:22:01 GMT
I also supported Jowan's decision, which is why I let him go in Redcliffe. I did not mean the Circle was perfect, I just meant aside from the Harrowing the Templars did not look so bad. About Cullen in DA2, I don't know about that since I'm still in act 2, but I do remember he did say those things in act 2. I don't know maybe I just got DAI nostalgia. He's not a bad man, just was shocked by Uldred's demons. He was 18. So, Cullen damaged a bit. The DA2 shock will help him in healing... Cullen was only 18? Wow, he was young. Does that mean the Amell/Surana mages were that young also? I know the Cousland noble was young but I never knew the ages of the mages player character. I figured they were young like 21 yrs of age. If DAI takes place 10 years after DAO as I read on other sites before the game was released, then Cullen is 28 yrs old during the events of DAI.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 17:24:54 GMT
He's not a bad man, just was shocked by Uldred's demons. He was 18. So, Cullen damaged a bit. The DA2 shock will help him in healing... Cullen was only 18? Wow, he was young. Does that mean the Amell/Surana mages were that young also? I know the Cousland noble was young but I never knew the ages of the mages player character. I figured they were young like 21 yrs of age. If DAI takes place 10 years after DAO as I read on other sites before the game was released, then Cullen is 28 yrs old during the events of DAI. Do you really think 18 and 21 makes a lot of difference? Heh. I won't be even able to tell one from another. But yes, mage background comes across as suitable for a very young character. While you are running around with Jowan and Lilly, it feels very teenage/Hogwarts like. Or at least it did to me.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 4, 2017 17:34:05 GMT
I told, that it's not understandable? But compared to the Circle of Mages his PTSD is nothing.I cannot emphasis enough my absolute repulsion with the idea that someone's PTSD is less than someone else's: PTSD is not a competition and you should not have to win it be acknowledged as suffering. That's an absolute appalling thought. Tell me how do you measure the scale of each person's PTSD to determine whose is less or nothing in comparison to the other? Is it by cause? Perhaps you could demonstrate it by a versus example? In Thedas who doesn't have some PTSD? But Cullen is "OUR HERO"! Yes, he has PTSD, just as almost everyone else. Yes, Cullen's so handsome, I see! You can not deny that there are more serious and less serious cases.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 4, 2017 17:41:55 GMT
He's not a bad man, just was shocked by Uldred's demons. He was 18. So, Cullen damaged a bit. The DA2 shock will help him in healing... Cullen was only 18? Wow, he was young. Does that mean the Amell/Surana mages were that young also? I know the Cousland noble was young but I never knew the ages of the mages player character. I figured they were young like 21 yrs of age. If DAI takes place 10 years after DAO as I read on other sites before the game was released, then Cullen is 28 yrs old during the events of DAI. I'm not sure about his age. Perhaps he was older. But still young.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 4, 2017 17:45:48 GMT
In Thedas who doesn't have some PTSD? But Cullen is "OUR HERO"! Yes, he has PTSD, just as almost everyone else. Yes, Cullen's so handsome, I see!Are you seriously assuming that I'd only be repulsed by the thought of someone's PTSD being nothing in comparison to someone else's if I found said someone handsome? Do you honestly and sincerely think that the only reason someone would care about that line of thought is because of attraction as oppose to, you know, loathing the idea itself? You can not deny that there are more serious and less serious cases. Oh but I did ask you how you measured the scale of each person's PTSD to determine whose was less or nothing in comparison to that of others. Again, is it by cause?
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Post by Catilina on Apr 4, 2017 17:49:17 GMT
You can not deny that there are more serious and less serious cases. Oh but I did ask you how you measured the scale of each person's PTSD to determine whose was less or nothing in comparison to that of others. Again, is it by cause? I said, I understood, Cullen is OUR HERO, because he's very attractive. I also like him.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 4, 2017 17:53:03 GMT
Oh but I did ask you how you measured the scale of each person's PTSD to determine whose was less or nothing in comparison to that of others. Again, is it by cause? I said, I understood, Cullen is OUR HERO, because he's very attractive. I also like him. Clearly you didn't but if that is truely how you see it then I have no words, only an expression of disgust.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 4, 2017 18:02:43 GMT
I said, I understood, Cullen is OUR HERO, because he's very attractive. I also like him. Clearly you didn't. Rather I hope not because if that is how you see it then I have no words, only an expression of disgust. Look at! Seriously. I really appreciate his character development, but I do not overrate. He's a nice, person, I wrote. I liked also in DA2 WITH his flaws. He was able to move beyond his past, and making a new life. He's problem not only this demon-affair and this mad Knight Commander, who he trusted until the end, but he's lyrium addict. Just I don't like, that always everyone praises him... If anyone attacks him, then I will defend him. But once again: I don't overrate him. He had some bad days, but not more than almost everyone in Thedas.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 4, 2017 18:06:52 GMT
The Warden likely perished in the Deep Roads, because there was no inkling of the cure or a trace of her in the Warden subplot. Speak for yerself. My Warden is living in a manor by the Waking Sea with his lady love.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 4, 2017 18:11:59 GMT
Clearly you didn't. Rather I hope not because if that is how you see it then I have no words, only an expression of disgust. Look at! Seriously. I really appreciate his character development, but I do not overrate. He's a nice, person, I wrote. I liked also in DA2 WITH his flaws. He was able to move beyond his past, and making a new life. He's problem not only this demon-affair and this mad Knight Commander, who he trusted until the end, but he's lyrium addict. Just I don't like, that always everyone praises him... If anyone attacks him, then I will defend him. But once again: I don't overrate him. I think you missed the point of what I'm against here. I find it a repulsive line of thought that PTSD can be compared as if suffering was a competition and that someone's PTSD can be considered less or nothing in comparison to someone's else. It is not and should not be considered so: it is in fact a line of thought that has led to suffering amongst people with PTSD. Despite making the following claim: "You can not deny that there are more serious and less serious cases.", you have yet to explain which cases of PTSD are less than others and how you judge which person's PTSD is less or nothing in comparison to someone else's.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 4, 2017 18:23:20 GMT
Look at! Seriously. I really appreciate his character development, but I do not overrate. He's a nice, person, I wrote. I liked also in DA2 WITH his flaws. He was able to move beyond his past, and making a new life. He's problem not only this demon-affair and this mad Knight Commander, who he trusted until the end, but he's lyrium addict. Just I don't like, that always everyone praises him... If anyone attacks him, then I will defend him. But once again: I don't overrate him. I think you missed the point of what I'm against here. I find it a repulsive line of thought that PTSD can be compared as if suffering was a competition and that someone's PTSD can be considered less or nothing in comparison to someone's else. It is not and should not be considered so: it is in fact a line of thought that has led to suffering amongst people with PTSD. Despite making the following claim: "You can not deny that there are more serious and less serious cases.", you have yet to explain which cases of PTSD are less than others and how you judge which person's PTSD is less or nothing in comparison to someone else's. Of course, I should have been clearer. I'm not a psychologist. Perhaps for him was enough this demon affair for a serious PTSD. I apologize. He made a mistake, he realized, he corrected. This is great. As a damaged man, even greater, need more?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 18:32:48 GMT
The Warden likely perished in the Deep Roads, because there was no inkling of the cure or a trace of her in the Warden subplot. Speak for yerself. My Warden is living in a manor by the Waking Sea with his lady love. Yes, it's just awesome how you can get punished for picking the wrong gender and race character. High five for gritty realism.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 4, 2017 19:09:49 GMT
He's not a bad man, just was shocked by Uldred's demons. He was 18. So, Cullen damaged a bit. The DA2 shock will help him in healing... Cullen was only 18? Wow, he was young. Does that mean the Amell/Surana mages were that young also? I know the Cousland noble was young but I never knew the ages of the mages player character. I figured they were young like 21 yrs of age. If DAI takes place 10 years after DAO as I read on other sites before the game was released, then Cullen is 28 yrs old during the events of DAI.He ws He was born in 9:11 Dragon.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 4, 2017 19:30:09 GMT
With regard to Cullen's age in DAO, according to WoT2 he was eight years old when he declared to his family he wanted to be a Templar and ten years later he achieved his aim. He was assigned to Kinloch Hold and barely a year later the 5th Blight began. So in fact that would make him 19 in DAO. I certainly took him to be around the same age as my Surana and that she could not have been more than her late teens because she was only just taking her Harrowing and they usually seem to want them to have done so before they reach the end of their teens. Bethany was considered old to be only just taking her Harrowing in DA2 and yet she would have been 21 at the most (She was born in 9:11).
The issues concerning the dangers of mages seemed to me to be far better handled in DAO. I still didn't feel it justified locking people up for their entire lives or making people Tranquil, particularly against their will as they were going to do with Jowan, but I could at least see how they could feel that way after things went so horribly wrong in the Circle Tower and with Connor in Redcliffe. I also sympathised with the Templars because I felt the Chantry were abusing them with lyrium addiction, since Alistair suggested he thought it wasn't necessary for their work (subsequently denied by the writers) and it was just a convenient way of controlling them. So basically both mages and Templars were being screwed over by the Chantry.
Then in DA2 all semblance of balance and nuance in the debate was lost because both sides were taken to extremes of behaviour. However, I always end up supporting the mages because it is quite clear that the annulment is illegal and all the dangerous mages causing trouble in the city, including Anders, were always outside the Circle, not in it. Even Chantry supporter Sebastian could see that. Nevertheless, I really resented the fact that it was implied, even by Varric, that I was supporting "dangerous people running amok" by doing so and that I condoned bombing the Chantry, which I didn't. I was defending innocent people from being unjustly slaughtered, including my sister if I wasn't a mage.
The same thing happened with DAI. I could justify going to the Templars instead of the mages for assistance with the Breach, for several good reasons, none of which meant that I actually supported the Templars or the Chantry but it was implied that in going to the Templars I did. Still at least I was able to disband the Templar order as too corrupt to be fixed and it did mean that in the future Fiona would not be leading the mages (her being left leading them was always the most annoying part of taking the mage path). I also always tell Cullen to kick the lyrium habit no matter which side I choose. I must admit I think his is one of the better story arcs. His attitude in DA2 was understandable considering what he went through in Kinloch Hold and yet he ultimately does overcome the mental problems that episode (and the lyrium addiction) inflicted on him. I respect him but I have never romanced him, so it was not his looks that influenced my views about him.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 4, 2017 19:33:24 GMT
Speak for yerself. My Warden is living in a manor by the Waking Sea with his lady love. Yes, it's just awesome how you can get punished for picking the wrong gender and race character. High five for gritty realism. You can get that epilogue no matter what race or gender you are, provided a romanced Leliana is not the Divine.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 4, 2017 19:37:15 GMT
You can't get that ending if you are male and gay. I think that is what Domi means. Mind you just because they are living by the sea doesn't mean they found a cure. If they did, then every Warden did, if they didn't then they are still screwed even if they are with Leliana. My gay Warden is off happily looking for a cure with Zevran, so I wasn't bothered that anyone who romanced Leliana got that ending, particularly considering I usually make Leliana Divine.
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Post by thats1evildude on Apr 4, 2017 19:39:55 GMT
You can't get that ending if you are male and gay. I think that is what Domi means. Well, of course not. It's the epilogue screen for Leliana, not the Warden. You might as well complain that the Alistair-romanced Warden or the Morrigan-romanced Warden doesn't get mentioned in Trespasser epilogue either.
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